https://www.apnews.com/b8...b9245d6637

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NEW YORK (AP) — Susan Kamil, a revered editor and publisher who found critical and commercial success with authors ranging from Salman Rushdie and Ta-Nehisi Coates to Elizabeth Strout and Sophie Kinsella, has died at age 69.

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Random House Publishing Group President Gina Centrello announced that Kamil died Sunday, eight days before her 70th birthday, from complications relating to lung cancer. Kamil, who joined the industry more than 40 years ago, was most recently executive vice president and publisher of Random House and imprints such as Dial Press and One World.

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[...]

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Some of the fall’s most prominent books were completed under Kamil’s leadership, among them Rushdie’s Booker Prize-nominated novel “Quichotte”; Coates’ debut novel, “The Water Dancer”; Prince’s posthumous memoir, “The Beautiful Ones”; and Strout’s “Olive, Again.”

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BartVanHemelen said:

https://www.abc.net.au/ra...d/11499424

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What’s hot at the library this week? Librarian and comedian Monica Dullard shares her tips with Jacinta Parsons and Sami Shah on Breakfast.

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[...]

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The Beautiful Ones by Prince: From Prince himself comes the brilliant coming-of-age-and-into-superstardom story of one of the greatest artists of all time featuring never-before-seen photos, original scrapbooks and lyric sheets, and the exquisite memoir he began writing before his tragic death.

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Click the link to listen to the program.

BartVanHemelen said:

violetcrush said:

icecreamcastle777 said:

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Violetcrush said: "Then, at his January 21st 2016 P&M show, just before playing The Beautiful Ones he clearly and slowly said to the audience, "sometimes singers have the courage to tell you...and if they are male, don't let them lie to you. We ALL write songs to "cop" girls." That new and surprising statement from him completely aligns with what has always been written about this song - that Prince was trying to get Susannah to choose between him and her boyfriend at that time."

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You really said that shit with a straight face??? That has to be the dumbest interpertation I ever heard, considering Prince never even told Susannah that the song was about her... (He did say he told Vanity though...) You got a whole lot to say, yet Prince was STILL pointing to Vanity as the inspiration behind the song at his 2016 P&M show as it shows in this article. That my dear is the point that's being made.

[Edited 9/9/19 23:10pm]

You are quite ridiculous as well. Vanity had just passed away. PRINCE WAS EULOGIZING HER AND HONORING HER LIFE. What do you think he would have done if he had found out Susannah had passed that day?? You think he would have just ignored it, and said nothing about what she meant to him?? Nope, don’t think so. In fact, I bet he would have been forthright about her connection to the rest of he song. * AGAIN, Prince specifically stated how and where Vanity was connected to TBO in that ridiculous Ebony interview that you are constantly clinging to. * Prince made the new statement about the inspiration for the REST of the song ALMOST A MONTH BEFORE VANITY PASSED. He was clearly stating he wrote the song to “get” a girl that night. I’m glad he opened up that way too. He didn’t have to specifically name anyone. It was obvious what he meant, because the fans that were there already knew the long held backstory.

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Please stop coming at me with that foolishness about "copping girls." Can't you see that it's a crack-pot analogy to use as an argument that the song is about Susannah?? First off, it's a dumb ass interpretation because you can't read Prince's mind to know that he was thinking about Susannah when he said that... Second, he didn't "cop" Susannah with the song coz the man never told her that the song was about her! So he couldn't have been saying that for her! Don't you understand that??? If anything, it was Vanity he was trying to cop with the song after she'd left him since he told her about it. Did ya see the quote where Prince said she knew about the song in The New Yorker article?

[Edited 9/11/19 21:20pm]

icecreamcastle777 said:

violetcrush said:

icecreamcastle777 said:

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Violetcrush said: "Then, at his January 21st 2016 P&M show, just before playing The Beautiful Ones he clearly and slowly said to the audience, "sometimes singers have the courage to tell you...and if they are male, don't let them lie to you. We ALL write songs to "cop" girls." That new and surprising statement from him completely aligns with what has always been written about this song - that Prince was trying to get Susannah to choose between him and her boyfriend at that time."

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You really said that shit with a straight face??? That has to be the dumbest interpertation I ever heard, considering Prince never even told Susannah that the song was about her... (He did say he told Vanity though...) You got a whole lot to say, yet Prince was STILL pointing to Vanity as the inspiration behind the song at his 2016 P&M show as it shows in this article. That my dear is the point that's being made.

[Edited 9/9/19 23:10pm]

You are quite ridiculous as well. Vanity had just passed away. PRINCE WAS EULOGIZING HER AND HONORING HER LIFE. What do you think he would have done if he had found out Susannah had passed that day?? You think he would have just ignored it, and said nothing about what she meant to him?? Nope, don’t think so. In fact, I bet he would have been forthright about her connection to the rest of he song. * AGAIN, Prince specifically stated how and where Vanity was connected to TBO in that ridiculous Ebony interview that you are constantly clinging to. * Prince made the new statement about the inspiration for the REST of the song ALMOST A MONTH BEFORE VANITY PASSED. He was clearly stating he wrote the song to “get” a girl that night. I’m glad he opened up that way too. He didn’t have to specifically name anyone. It was obvious what he meant, because the fans that were there already knew the long held backstory.

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Please stop coming at me with that foolishness about "copping girls." Can't you see that it's a crack-pot analogy to use as an argument that the song is about Susannah?? First off, it's a dumb ass interpretation because you can't read Prince's mind to know that he was thinking about Susannah when he said that... Second, he didn't "cop" Susannah with the song coz the man never told her that the song was about her! So he couldn't have been saying that for her! Don't you understand that??? If anything, it was Vanity he was trying to cop with the song after she'd left him since he told her about it. Did ya see the quote where Prince said she knew about the song in The New Yorker article?

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Why are you talking about he only shared "ONE LYRIC" about Vanity. What did you think Prince was gonna do? Spell out the whole damn song in an interview line for line? Did you forget, the man said the song wasn't about Susannah from the start of the interview and then tried to show how obvious it was that the song was related to Vanity by pointing out that lyric?? That's why he said, "IF YOU LOOK AT IT, IT'S VERY OBVIOUS" Why do you think he said that? BECAUSE VANITY HAD JUST LEFT HIM and the song was obviously about that loss.... "the beautiful ones you always seem to lose." Plus, Susannah knows the song ain't about her from what she's saying in this interview from Rolling Stone, she was obviously talking about Prince saying the song was for Vanity. Vanity was the only one that he called by name in connection to any song. Who else could she have been talking about? I don't know why you can't jump off this train girl.

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Rolling Stone Magazine 2019 https://www.rollingstone....ew-842940/

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"In the year or so leading up to his passing, Prince seemed nostalgic. When Vanity died in February 2016, he eulogized her at one of his Piano & a Microphone concerts, explaining that she had inspired Purple Rain’s “The Beautiful Ones.” It was unusual, but it showed how he was starting to come full circle with some of the recordings he’d made nearly 40 years ago."

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“I remember him saying, ‘I’m not a reminiscent kind of guy. I don’t talk of the past, and I don’t reflect,'” Melvoin says. “But I knew him well and I felt he was incredibly self-reflective. Towards the end, he was communicating with the audience more, telling stories about his past and connecting the dots. He was letting people know why he wrote certain song and who they were about. He was becoming more and more self-reflective, and that could’ve been based on the physical pain he was in. It’s when you’re in so much fucking pain that you’re like, ‘I don’t know how much more of this I can take,’ and you start thinking about mortality and life. He probably had a lot of that going on.”

[Edited 9/11/19 21:20pm]

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violetcrush said:

icecreamcastle777 said:

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Please stop coming at me with that foolishness about "copping girls." Can't you see that it's a crack-pot analogy to use as an argument that the song is about Susannah?? First off, it's a dumb ass interpretation because you can't read Prince's mind to know that he was thinking about Susannah when he said that... Second, he didn't "cop" Susannah with the song coz the man never told her that the song was about her! So he couldn't have been saying that for her! Don't you understand that??? If anything, it was Vanity he was trying to cop with the song after she'd left him since he told her about it. Did ya see the quote where Prince said she knew about the song in The New Yorker article?

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Why are you talking about he only shared "ONE LYRIC" about Vanity. What did you think Prince was gonna do? Spell out the whole damn song in an interview line for line? Did you forget, the man said the song wasn't about Susannah from the start of the interview and then tried to show how obvious it was that the song was related to Vanity by pointing out that lyric?? That's why he said, "IF YOU LOOK AT IT, IT'S VERY OBVIOUS" Why do you think he said that? BECAUSE VANITY HAD JUST LEFT HIM and the song was obviously about that loss.... "the beautiful ones you always seem to lose." Plus, Susannah knows the song ain't about her from what she's saying in this interview from Rolling Stone, she was obviously talking about Prince saying the song was for Vanity. Vanity was the only one that he called by name in connection to any song. Who else could she have been talking about? I don't know why you can't jump off this train girl.

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Rolling Stone Magazine 2019 https://www.rollingstone....ew-842940/

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"In the year or so leading up to his passing, Prince seemed nostalgic. When Vanity died in February 2016, he eulogized her at one of his Piano & a Microphone concerts, explaining that she had inspired Purple Rain’s “The Beautiful Ones.” It was unusual, but it showed how he was starting to come full circle with some of the recordings he’d made nearly 40 years ago."

.

“I remember him saying, ‘I’m not a reminiscent kind of guy. I don’t talk of the past, and I don’t reflect,'” Melvoin says. “But I knew him well and I felt he was incredibly self-reflective. Towards the end, he was communicating with the audience more, telling stories about his past and connecting the dots. He was letting people know why he wrote certain song and who they were about. He was becoming more and more self-reflective, and that could’ve been based on the physical pain he was in. It’s when you’re in so much fucking pain that you’re like, ‘I don’t know how much more of this I can take,’ and you start thinking about mortality and life. He probably had a lot of that going on.”

[Edited 9/11/19 21:20pm]

AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN... what I have been saying ALL ALONG is that there was clearly more than one inspiration for that song. Prince clearly specified how he connected Vanity to the specific lyrics in the song. Later in the interview he then gave TWO completely opposing explanations to the REST OF THE LYRICS when asked specifically about Susannah. * Yes, you continue to post Susannah’s comments about how Prince was reflecting during his P&M shows, and he was - ESPECIALLY the first show at PP, where he spoke about his Father, his inner thoughts about learning to play music, thoughts about fighting in relationships, comments about David Bowie, appreciation for Wendy and Lisa and a sweet story about Lisa, AND his very specific remarks before playing TBO. * Not sure how else you would interpret his statement that night. It’s pretty cut and dry. He was stating he wrote the song to “get” a girl. Look back on all the Biographies to find the associates’ comments about the song. Prince DID NOT like anyone taking about his personal life, and he would deny things all the time. Lisa Coleman stated he called her after an interview she did and said “can’t you just err on the side of mystery?” He did not want the public knowing the backstory of his life or songs unless HE was telling it. The Revolution band members and everyone in the camp during PR were VERY open and candid about their time with Prince both on a personal and professional level in Alan Light’s book. They were finally speaking out in detail. I have no doubt he was not pleased about it. * Sorry, but there really is no other way to interpret his statement about TBO at the first P&M show. He was clearly finally acknowledging the long-held backstory of the song, which was huge thing for him.

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How can u say that Prince saying, "We ALL write songs to "cop" girls" is cut and dry and it's Prince clearly and finally acknowledging that the song was about Susannah??? I can't believe you're shamelessly trying to run with that one. That's cut and dry and clearly acknowledging that the song was about Susannah??? Girl, that's not Prince acknowledging shit. That's just desperation and embellishment on your part because Prince STAYED explaining that the song was about Vanity and people are finally realizing all those associate's who was trying to read Prince's mind like they were God back then were dead ass wrong. That was bound to happen. After all, it wasn't Prince who was saying the song was about Susannah. It was only all of the associate's and friends surrounding her and Wendy at the time. Prince never told Susannah or ANY of them that TBO was about her, and since nobody could read his damn mind to know who the hell he was singing about.... This happened...

icecreamcastle777 said:

violetcrush said:

icecreamcastle777 said: AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN... what I have been saying ALL ALONG is that there was clearly more than one inspiration for that song. Prince clearly specified how he connected Vanity to the specific lyrics in the song. Later in the interview he then gave TWO completely opposing explanations to the REST OF THE LYRICS when asked specifically about Susannah. * Yes, you continue to post Susannah’s comments about how Prince was reflecting during his P&M shows, and he was - ESPECIALLY the first show at PP, where he spoke about his Father, his inner thoughts about learning to play music, thoughts about fighting in relationships, comments about David Bowie, appreciation for Wendy and Lisa and a sweet story about Lisa, AND his very specific remarks before playing TBO. * Not sure how else you would interpret his statement that night. It’s pretty cut and dry. He was stating he wrote the song to “get” a girl. Look back on all the Biographies to find the associates’ comments about the song. Prince DID NOT like anyone taking about his personal life, and he would deny things all the time. Lisa Coleman stated he called her after an interview she did and said “can’t you just err on the side of mystery?” He did not want the public knowing the backstory of his life or songs unless HE was telling it. The Revolution band members and everyone in the camp during PR were VERY open and candid about their time with Prince both on a personal and professional level in Alan Light’s book. They were finally speaking out in detail. I have no doubt he was not pleased about it. * Sorry, but there really is no other way to interpret his statement about TBO at the first P&M show. He was clearly finally acknowledging the long-held backstory of the song, which was huge thing for him.

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How you're explaining Prince's second comment when asked about Susannah specifically in the interview is a complete embellishment. No where did Prince allude to an explanation for "the rest of the lyrics" or was he evading that Susannah inspired "the rest of the lyrics" in what he said. How is he evading if he'd ALREADY explained that the song wasn't about Susannah and named Vanity and that one scene in the movie as the inspiration from the get go? He'd already told the man. The interviewer guy in Ebony kept senselessly pressing him, saying people said the song was about Susannah, and inconsiderately called her by name after Prince had ALREADY told him it was about Vanity and the scene. Prince then delicately tried to explain it wasn't about Susannah yet again - gracefully saying it wasn't about anything carnal, but spiritual. He'd already told the man in detail about the meaning of the lyrics of the song from the jump. How many times did he have to explain it? Even after that Ebony interview was long gone, as you can tell from the intro of this book, Prince never let up or back down from saying Vanity was the inspiration of that song.

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How can u say that Prince saying, "We ALL write songs to "cop" girls" is cut and dry and it's Prince clearly and finally acknowledging that the song was about Susannah??? I can't believe you're shamelessly trying to run with that one. That's cut and dry and clearly acknowledging that the song was about Susannah??? Girl, that's not Prince acknowledging shit. That's just desperation and embellishment on your part because Prince STAYED explaining that the song was about Vanity and people are finally realizing all those associate's who was trying to read Prince's mind like they were God back then were dead ass wrong. That was bound to happen. After all, it wasn't Prince who was saying the song was about Susannah. It was only all of the associate's and friends surrounding her and Wendy at the time. Prince never told Susannah or ANY of them that TBO was about her, and since nobody could read his damn mind to know who the hell he was singing about.... This happened...

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Look at the big picture here...

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So, first Prince mentioned Vanity in the 2015 Ebony article pointing out ONE OF the lyrics she inspired, "The beautiful ones you always seems to lose...." Then he alluded to writing and using the song to cop a girl a few months later in Jan 2016... and then a months after that on Feb 15, 2016, Surprise! He tells us that The Beautiful Ones was ONE OF the songs Vanity knew was about her... Now that seems more of a cut and dry as to who he was truly trying to "cop" with that song.

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I know you always have to get that last word in, and I ain't planning to do this all day, so have at it. Peace

Oh my God, we just CANNOT get off of this hamster wheel, can we??!! And you say that I'M the one that has to get the last word in?? I thought we had exhausted this debate several posts up, but here were are again so.....

*

icecreamcastle777 said: How is he evading if he'd ALREADY explained that the song wasn't about Susannah and named Vanity and that one scene in the movie as the inspiration from the get go? He'd already told the man.

violetcrush response: Nope, he actually had not explained much of anything about the song during his first comments. This is what he said EXACTLY: "If they look at it, it’s very obvious. “Do you want him or do you want me,” that was written for that scene in Purple Rain specifically. Where Morris [Day] would be sitting with [Apollonia], and there’d be this back and forth. And also, “The beautiful ones you always seem to lose,” Vanity had just quit the movie."

He was first connecting the "do you want him or do you want me" lyrics (aka, the rest of the song) to only the scene in the film. Then, he SPECIFICALLY connected Vanity with "the beautiful ones you always seem to lose" lyric, BECAUSE SHE HAD JUST QUIT THE MOVIE - to quote Prince's exact words.

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THEN, SEVERAL QUESTIONS DOWN, the reporter says, "I've read The Beautiful Ones was based on Susannah Melvoin." Prince's response: "Any ballad like that, you know it’s not going to be about anything, uh, what’s the word? Carnal. It’s not gonna even be based in flesh. Regardless of what I’m singing about, it’s all spiritual. This is a channel. I’m trying to do “Somewhere over the Rainbow.” It’s not about somebody human that I’m looking at right now." So, first Prince states that he wrote the rest of the song for the characters in the film. He then states he was not writing about anything "carnal", or based in flesh - that it was all spiritual. Okay, sure. Have you ever heard about the way people respond when they do not want to reveal a truth? They ramble, and they also give multiple responses that often do not connect.

*

icecreamcastles777 said: How can u say that Prince saying, "We ALL write songs to "cop" girls" is cut and dry and it's Prince clearly and finally acknowledging that the song was about Susannah??? Girl, that's not Prince acknowledging shit. That's just desperation and embellishment on your part because Prince STAYED explaining that the song was about Vanity

violetcrush response: Actually, what Prince said two seconds before he began the first chords to TBO was EXACTLY this: "SOME SINGERS HAVE THE COURAGE TO TELL YOU...AND IF THEY ARE MALE, DON'T LET THEM LIE TO YOU. WE ALL WRITE SONGS TO "COP" GIRLS." BAM!! Sorry, but for Prince, that is a HUGE acknowledgment of the connection to the rest of that song. YOU just refuse to acknowledge that moment and his statement, because you want to believe the entire song was about Vanity. Please show me proof of Prince stating that ALL of the song lyrics connect to Vanity. I'll save you the trouble - you can't, because his statements in that interview first tied the rest of the lyrics to the characters in the film, and then when asked again, to a spiritual thing. That is, until January 21st, 2016 - which is when he spoke the words bolded above. AGAIN, this show was almost one month prior to Vanity's passing, which was completely unexpected by Prince and everyone else. Prince mentioned nothing about the portion connected to Vanity, because he had already spoken about it.

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You can deny all you want that what Prince stated at the P&M show meant something, but it was in fact HUGE with regard to what he normally did during his shows. He would NEVER have revealed anything like that to his audience. It was personal, and he was definitely connecting what had been previously written to the song. ALL of his statements that night were personal, and directly connected with events and people in his life.

*

Look, we can keep going around and around on this, but I would say that we should just agree to disagree on what or who inspired the lyrics to the rest of the song. I have stated over and over that there is no doubt that Vanity is connected to the lyrics to which Prince specified, and I'm sure also to the lyrics about "smashing the picture". However, the rest of the song does not connect to their situation at that time.

[Edited 9/14/19 13:24pm]

Violetcrush response: Actually, what Prince said two seconds before he began the first chords to TBO was EXACTLY this: "SOME SINGERS HAVE THE COURAGE TO TELL YOU...AND IF THEY ARE MALE, DON'T LET THEM LIE TO YOU. WE ALL WRITE SONGS TO "COP" GIRLS." BAM!!

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What are u BAMMING about? What did you show me from...."SOME SINGERS HAVE THE COURAGE TO TELL YOU...AND IF THEY ARE MALE, DON'T LET THEM LIE TO YOU. WE ALL WRITE SONGS TO "COP" GIRLS... You forgot to post the part where Prince said that the comment alludes to The Beautuful Ones being about Susannah.... I don't see that part...

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[Edited 9/14/19 18:29pm]

icecreamcastle777 said:

Violetcrush response: Actually, what Prince said two seconds before he began the first chords to TBO was EXACTLY this: "SOME SINGERS HAVE THE COURAGE TO TELL YOU...AND IF THEY ARE MALE, DON'T LET THEM LIE TO YOU. WE ALL WRITE SONGS TO "COP" GIRLS." BAM!!

.

What are u BAMMING about? What did you show me from...."SOME SINGERS HAVE THE COURAGE TO TELL YOU...AND IF THEY ARE MALE, DON'T LET THEM LIE TO YOU. WE ALL WRITE SONGS TO "COP" GIRLS... You forgot to post the part where Prince said that the comment alludes to The Beautuful Ones being about Susannah.... I don't see that part...

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*violetcrush response: We don't need Susannah's name in his statement, because since the first Biography was published IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN STATED THAT HE WROTE THAT SONG TO GET SUSANNAH. Oh my God, how hard is that to grasp?? Seriously.

And You left out the part of Prince's comment in The Ebony interview where Prince literally said The beautiful ones WASN'T ABOUT SUSANNAH. You know, that first comment? So tell me, how is "the rest of the song" about Susannah when Prince said the song didn't have ANYTHING to do with her. Period.

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*violetcrush response: Actually, you'll need to post Prince's statement where he literally said TBO "wasn't about Susannah", because I don't recall her name at all in his responses to the reporter. He never stated her name, period.

*

So, to you, Prince was only singing about Vanity being a character in the movie? How ridiculous does that sound to u? I mean, it's not like they were LOVERS or anything like that and Vanity had just left him for good, right? Naw. leaving his life for good didn't have anything to do with the lyrics "the beautiful ones you always seem to lose..." Or the lyrics that says "the beautiful ones they hurt you every time" or pretty much every other lyric apart from the one that he said was for the scene. That was just due to her being a character in the movie... Riiight. lol

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*violetcrush response: what are you talking about?? I NEVER stated Prince was singing about Vanity being a character in the movie at all. Vanity was NO LONGER even participating in the movie when the song was recorded, WHICH IS WHY CERTAIN SPECIFIC LYRICS ARE CONNECTED TO HER AND THE REST OF THE SONG IS NOT. Prince himself stated in the Ebony interview that the "do you want him or do you want me" lyrics were for the characters in the film, which would have been him and Apollonia. THEN he stated those lyrics were connected to something spiritual and not anyone specific. Not really sure why this is so hard to grasp.

*

THIS part of the song is NOT about Vanity:

*

Baby, baby, baby
What's it gonna be
Baby, baby, baby
Is it him or is it me?
Don't make me waste my time
Don't make me lose my mind baby

Baby, baby, baby
Can't you stay with me tonight
Oh baby, baby, baby
Don't my kisses please you right
You were so hard to find
The beautiful ones, they hurt you every time (about Vanity and any other girl who has hurt him)

Baby, baby
Baby, baby
Baby, baby
Baby
What's it gonna be baby?

Do you want him?
Or do you want me?
Cause I want you
Said I want you
Tell me, babe
Do you want me?
I gotta know, I gotta know
Do you want me?
Baby, baby, baby
Listen to me
I may not know where I'm going (babe)
I said I may not know what I need
One thing, one thing's for certain baby
I know what I want, yeah
And if it please you baby
Please you, baby
I'm begging down on my knees
I want you
Yes I do
Baby, baby, baby, baby
I want you

Yes I do

*

MOST of the song is Prince screaming for the girl to choose him over the other guy she's with. How would that apply to Vanity?? Does he sing about Vanit leaving the film? Yep. Does he sing about her "smashing the picture"? Yep. Does he sing about "the beautfiul ones you always seem to lose"? Yep. But the REST of the song is him lamenting over not being able to have the girl that he wants and him begging her to choose him over her current boyfriend.

*

How did we get into this debate again? Oh right. Prince was STILL confirming a second time apart from that Ebony interview that the song was about Vanity yet again. No need for him to be telling any lies at that point either...

*

violetcrush response: So, you think Prince's statement at his P&M show was confirming the entire song was about Vanity?? Yeah, Nah. Don't think so. Not sure how you would even put that together. He didn't have to "get" Vanity from another guy. He had her for a year and a half, and then she left.

[Edited 9/14/19 18:29pm]

[Edited 9/14/19 18:56pm]

[Edited 9/14/19 18:58pm]

Someone has turned P's memoir into another Susannah thread and I get snipped???

violetcrush said:

icecreamcastle777 said:

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What are u BAMMING about? What did you show me from...."SOME SINGERS HAVE THE COURAGE TO TELL YOU...AND IF THEY ARE MALE, DON'T LET THEM LIE TO YOU. WE ALL WRITE SONGS TO "COP" GIRLS... You forgot to post the part where Prince said that the comment alludes to The Beautuful Ones being about Susannah.... I don't see that part...

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*violetcrush response: We don't need Susannah's name in his statement, because since the first Biography was published IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN STATED THAT HE WROTE THAT SONG TO GET SUSANNAH. Oh my God, how hard is that to grasp?? Seriously.

And You left out the part of Prince's comment in The Ebony interview where Prince literally said The beautiful ones WASN'T ABOUT SUSANNAH. You know, that first comment? So tell me, how is "the rest of the song" about Susannah when Prince said the song didn't have ANYTHING to do with her. Period.

.

*violetcrush response: Actually, you'll need to post Prince's statement where he literally said TBO "wasn't about Susannah", because I don't recall her name at all in his responses to the reporter. He never stated her name, period.

*

So, to you, Prince was only singing about Vanity being a character in the movie? How ridiculous does that sound to u? I mean, it's not like they were LOVERS or anything like that and Vanity had just left him for good, right? Naw. leaving his life for good didn't have anything to do with the lyrics "the beautiful ones you always seem to lose..." Or the lyrics that says "the beautiful ones they hurt you every time" or pretty much every other lyric apart from the one that he said was for the scene. That was just due to her being a character in the movie... Riiight. lol

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*violetcrush response: what are you talking about?? I NEVER stated Prince was singing about Vanity being a character in the movie at all. Vanity was NO LONGER even participating in the movie when the song was recorded, WHICH IS WHY CERTAIN SPECIFIC LYRICS ARE CONNECTED TO HER AND THE REST OF THE SONG IS NOT. Prince himself stated in the Ebony interview that the "do you want him or do you want me" lyrics were for the characters in the film, which would have been him and Apollonia. THEN he stated those lyrics were connected to something spiritual and not anyone specific. Not really sure why this is so hard to grasp.

*

THIS part of the song is NOT about Vanity:

*

Baby, baby, baby
What's it gonna be
Baby, baby, baby
Is it him or is it me?
Don't make me waste my time
Don't make me lose my mind baby

Baby, baby, baby
Can't you stay with me tonight
Oh baby, baby, baby
Don't my kisses please you right
You were so hard to find
The beautiful ones, they hurt you every time (about Vanity and any other girl who has hurt him)

Baby, baby
Baby, baby
Baby, baby
Baby
What's it gonna be baby?

Do you want him?
Or do you want me?
Cause I want you
Said I want you
Tell me, babe
Do you want me?
I gotta know, I gotta know
Do you want me?
Baby, baby, baby
Listen to me
I may not know where I'm going (babe)
I said I may not know what I need
One thing, one thing's for certain baby
I know what I want, yeah
And if it please you baby
Please you, baby
I'm begging down on my knees
I want you
Yes I do
Baby, baby, baby, baby
I want you

Yes I do

*

MOST of the song is Prince screaming for the girl to choose him over the other guy she's with. How would that apply to Vanity?? Does he sing about Vanit leaving the film? Yep. Does he sing about her "smashing the picture"? Yep. Does he sing about "the beautfiul ones you always seem to lose"? Yep. But the REST of the song is him lamenting over not being able to have the girl that he wants and him begging her to choose him over her current boyfriend.

*

How did we get into this debate again? Oh right. Prince was STILL confirming a second time apart from that Ebony interview that the song was about Vanity yet again. No need for him to be telling any lies at that point either...

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violetcrush response: So, you think Prince's statement at his P&M show was confirming the entire song was about Vanity?? Yeah, Nah. Don't think so. Not sure how you would even put that together. He didn't have to "get" Vanity from another guy. He had her for a year and a half, and then she left.

[Edited 9/14/19 18:29pm]

[Edited 9/14/19 18:56pm]

[Edited 9/14/19 18:58pm]

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It's a no brainier if you're a hard core Prince fan that he was talking about Susannah when he said that people were completly wrong as to who he was singing about. Your gonna claim it wasn't Susannah he was talking about now??? I'm not even gonna entertain posting the comment. Everyone knows it was Susannah because she's the only one that all the associates were saying the song was about, and all the books jumped on board using the associates "psychoanalysis" to tell their story.

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The only lyrics in what u posted that isn't about Vanity is the ones that alludes to the scene with Apples and Morris where Prince is singing to Apples to want him over Morris. I don't get why you don't understand that. The song is about Vanity and the scene in the movie as Prince alluded to. He said it wasn't about Susannah.

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I can only continue to laugh at your anology that Prince was finally finally addmiting to the song being about Susannah when he said.... "SOME SINGERS HAVE THE COURAGE TO TELL YOU...AND IF THEY ARE MALE, DON'T LET THEM LIE TO YOU. WE ALL WRITE SONGS TO "COP" GIRLS... I see you're dead ass serious about using the statemnet as some kind of proof that the song was about Susannah. By all means... keep trying.

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[Edited 9/14/19 21:29pm]

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Someone has turned P's memoir into another Susannah thread and I get snipped???

There are TWO participants in the "debate" here, and one started the discussion.

icecreamcastle777 said:

violetcrush said:

[Edited 9/14/19 18:56pm]

[Edited 9/14/19 18:58pm]

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It's a no brainier if you're a hard core Prince fan that he was talking about Susannah when he said that people were completly wrong as to who he was singing about. Your gonna claim it wasn't Susannah he was talking about now??? I'm not even gonna entertain posting the comment. Everyone knows it was Susannah because she's the only one that all the associates were saying the song was about, and all the books jumped on board using the associates "psychoanalysis" to tell their story.

.

The only lyrics in what u posted that isn't about Vanity is the ones that alludes to the scene with Apples and Morris where Prince is singing to Apples to want him over Morris. I don't get why you don't understand that. The song is about Vanity and the scene in the movie as Prince alluded to. He said it wasn't about Susannah.

.

I can only continue to laugh at your anology that Prince was finally finally addmiting to the song being about Susannah when he said.... "SOME SINGERS HAVE THE COURAGE TO TELL YOU...AND IF THEY ARE MALE, DON'T LET THEM LIE TO YOU. WE ALL WRITE SONGS TO "COP" GIRLS... I see you're dead ass serious about using the statemnet as some kind of proof that the song was about Susannah. By all means... keep trying.

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[Edited 9/14/19 21:29pm]

So, let's just analyze what you posted above. You said, "It's a no brainer if you're a hard core Prince fan that he was talking about Susannah when he said that people were completely wrong as to who he was singnig about." However, when I said the same thing about his comment (bolded above) at the first P&M show you come back with "no way he was talking about Susannah, because he didn't say her name"??!!

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So, he's only talking about Susannah when YOU declare that he is?? You see the hypocricy in that, right?? To use your exact line of thinking - all the hardcore fans KNOW the story all along about TBO was that Prince wrote the song to "get" Susannah away from her boyfriend - and it worked, because she moved to MN to join the camp that Fall when they began shooting the film. She stated the relationship started heavy at that time. So, he did not have to state her name at the P&M concert.

*

AGAIN, not sure why this is SO hard for you to accept??. Prince DID NOT want people talking about his personal life and relationships, period. Everyone knows and agrees that the lyrics "the beautiful ones you always seem to lose", "the beautful ones always smash the picture" are about Vanity leaving and quitting the film. THE REST OF THE SONG IS PRINCE BEGGING THE GIRL TO CHOOSE HIM OVER ANOTHER GUY - and yes, Prince stated he wrote those lyrics specifically for the characters in the film, HOWEVER, a few questions down he then stated he wrote the lyrics from a "spiritual" perspective and they were not tied to anything human. He was changing his answer as soon as he was asked directly about Susannah. THEN, a few months later he held his first P&M concert at PP, and opened up to the audience like he had NEVER done before. He was talkiing about his life and playing his songs in a chronological order from 3 yrs old through Purple Rain time frame. The statement he made before playing TBO was clear and concise, and it connected to the long-held story about the song.

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Susannah has stated Prince was pursuing her for almost a year before he wrote the song in Sept 1983 - from the time they met in late 1982 until she finally moved to MN Fall 1983. He was staying at her house, sending her flowers everyday, bringing her to the studio with him, and telling her he could not stop thinking about her. I would say it is VERY feasible that he would have been frustrated and confused about his relationship with her. Seems she was playing a little "hard to get", which was pretty smart on her part.

*

Anyway....I'm done, because the next post will just be more of the "no way he was talking about Susannah during that P&M show" blah blah blah.

Can't we please, please just talk about the book, and what a wonderful thing this will be?

Loved the discussions about the book in Michael Dean's Podcast Juice show, I'm looking forward to hear more podcasts talk about this release and what they think.