OnlyNDaUsa said:

BartVanHemelen said:

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Look what just popped up: https://www.smithsonianma...180973083/

i take some issues with the story. For one the fret markers were spades not the symbol. Also, I am sure I read that the one for the movie was just a prop and did not even function. But who knows. Also there he had one in 79 that was brown.

Dave Rusan confirmed that the first cloud he made for the movie was fully functional, like the other 3 he made later for the Purple Rain Tour.

BartVanHemelen said:

Neversin said:

BartVanHemelen said:

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Look what just popped up: https://www.smithsonianma...180973083/

So much wrong info in that article... Andy Beach and Zeke Clark both said the Smithsonian yellow "Cloud" was one of the first ones they did with the original "Schaller" hardware... After that one thirty something extra yellow ones were made (with new hardware) and later some of those were repainted to "Electric blue"... Neversin.

You would think teh official guitar currator at Paisley Park would have at least the knowledge that there were more white clouds than just the one white cloud guitar from the Purple Rain movie.
Saying that the one from the movie is the same as the one from the Raspberry Beret video and the SOTT cover is just amateur when looking more closely or just googling the tour pics.

Cloud #1 (Purple Rain movie guitar)

Cloud #2 (Raspberry Beret video guitar and later repainted peach)

Cloud #3 (Purple Rain Tour and Parade Tour guitar)

emesem said:

cb70 said:

And then he came back after that tour and recorded some of the best music of his career. He was on fire from September '86 through to the end of the year.

Except for the "Sign of the Times" itself I belive most of SOTT was already recorded/written before Sept 86.

"So strange that no one stayed, at the end of the Parade"

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Here's a list of Prince's known recordings from the time The Revolution ended to the end of 1986...

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13 September - Crucial
14 September - Coco Boys
16 September – Shockadelica
28 Sept - 1 Oct 1986 – Madhouse 8 Album Recorded
5 October - Rescue Me
6 October - Witness 4 The Prosecution (revamp)
7 October - Telepathy
8 October - Madhouse Nine & Six And ½ (Note: Not Madhouse Nine used on the 16 album)
11 October – Violet Blue (Jill Jones)
16 October – Emotional Pump
18 October – Housequake
27 October - Feel U Up
28 October - Rebirth Of The Flesh & Rockhard In A Funky Place

30 October - Good Love
Late October - Early November - Strange Relationship was remixed

2 November - If I Was Your Girlfriend
5 November - Camille Album Sequenced
11 November - Yo Mister
15 November – Cosmic Day
19 November - Adore
22 November – Play In The Sunshine & It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night Overdubs
30 November - Crystal Ball Album Sequenced
7 December - Bob George
7 December - Walkin' In Glory
9 December - 2 Nigs United 4 West Compton
10 December - Le Grind
21 December - U Got The Look
26 December - Pony Ride
28 December – Wally (deleted)
29 December – Wally (second version)

Neversin said:

There were four original white "Cloud" guitars...
WBR had one for some competition and Prince had three: one for use in the movie and two extras for the tour...
The first one made by Dave Rusan was the fully functional prop seen in the movie; Prince liked that one so much he ordered two more for the tour; Dave made three new ones: two for Prince and one ordered by WBR for said competition; noone seems to know where it went or who won it...

The three white "Cloud" guitars Prince had were all identical except for one point: the fret markers on the 12th fret; the original movie "Cloud" had the two spade markers at the normal distance/position, the second "Cloud" had the markers slightly closer to each other and the third "Cloud" had the markers right next to each other...
This was of course so that Prince and his techs could distinguish them from each other...

For the Parade Tour Prince had a new one built from scratch: the black with maple neck one...
At the last show of the Parade Tour Prince smashed white "Cloud" two and three and had both of them sent to Knut Koupee to have them fully repaired and repainted; white "Cloud" one was kept as is, (minor) damages and all and was last seen at the 2001 Celebration near the vault...
Black/maple cloud was years later repainted completely black with Batman fret markers...
White "Cloud" number two was repainted peach and white "Cloud" three was "misplaced"/stolen after repairs...

For the Sign "O" The Times Tour Prince had Joel Bernstein create a second peach "Cloud" (by someone?); the two peach coloured guitars only had one difference and that was the colour of the pick-up switch; the original white "Cloud" that was painted peach had the white cap on the switch and the newly built peach "Cloud" had just the gold switch (it didn't have a coloured cap...) again to distinguish them from each other...
The white capped peach "Cloud" (which was original white "Cloud" number two) found a new home in The Netherlands in 1991 and the newly built peach "Cloud" was repainted numerous time for subsequent tours...

All this info was gathered over the years from various employees of Knut Koupee, Joel Bernstein and numerous other guitar techs that worked on the tours...

Neversin.

Very interesting!

Thank you!

OnlyNDaUsa said:

laytonian said:

This was the Parade Tour, not the Purple Rain tour.

yeah 86 in Japan.... Parade tour. That is what was said.

yea Wendy said she knew the Revolution was over when he smashed the guitar. Few days after back in LA, Prince disbanded the band.

Did some asking and looking in some old notes I had and got some additional info to Neversin's post:

- It seems the Celebration 2001 white cloud was the presumed lost/stolen Cloud #3, when looked at the 12th fret spades, this info came from someone who saw it there and matched it to the pics I posted.

- Both Cloud #1 and #2 were repainted peach and used on the SOTT Tour and an additional one was made to make the total of 3 peach clouds, partly info from Joel Bernstein and various other people.

- It was confirmed by techs that the white Cloud #2 was given away to someone in Holland, this cloud was peach clolored by then, paint analysis seems to be done on it in the 90's and showed white beneath the peach paint. This info came from some people who know the guy who has the guitar.

- Cloud #1 was indeed repainted again to yellow and the newly build peach cloud was also repainted to blue. Andy Beach however confirmed the Smithsonian guitar was one of the ones he made.
But if the paint analysis of the conservator show a white and a peach layer beneath the yellow then ANdy Beach is highly likely to be wrong.

So it seems the article Bart posted is right except for the part that the guitar was used in the Raspberry Beret video and the cloud on the SOTT cover could have been either Cloud #1 or #2 becuase the third one wasn't built yet.
Former white cloud #1 and #2 were both identical when they were repainted peach and the new built peach one had a gold capless pick up selector switch and a number on the truss rod cover where the original two peach clouds had a spade on it.

I dont now if everything I wrote above is 100% accurate so please don;t bite my head of if it's not.

[Edited 9/20/19 1:33am]

JorisE73 said:

Neversin said:

JorisE73 said:

Did some asking and looking in some old notes I had and got some additional info to Neversin's post:

- It seems the Celebration 2001 white cloud was the presumed lost/stolen Cloud #3, when looked at the 12th fret spades, this info came from someone who saw it there and matched it to the pics I posted.

- Both Cloud #1 and #2 were repainted peach and used on the SOTT Tour and an additional one was made to make the total of 3 peach clouds, partly info from Joel Bernstein and various other people.

- It was confirmed by techs that the white Cloud #2 was given away to someone in Holland, this cloud was peach clolored by then, paint analysis seems to be done on it in the 90's and showed white beneath the peach paint. This info came from some people who know the guy who has the guitar.

- Cloud #1 was indeed repainted again to yellow and the newly build peach cloud was also repainted to blue. Andy Beach however confirmed the Smithsonian guitar was one of the ones he made.
But if the paint analysis of the conservator show a white and a peach layer beneath the yellow then ANdy Beach is highly likely to be wrong.

So it seems the article Bart posted is right except for the part that the guitar was used in the Raspberry Beret video and the cloud on the SOTT cover could have been either Cloud #1 or #2 becuase the third one wasn't built yet.
Former white cloud #1 and #2 were both identical when they were repainted peach and the new built peach one had a gold capless pick up selector switch and a number on the truss rod cover where the original two peach clouds had a spade on it.

I dont now if everything I wrote above is 100% accurate so please don;t bite my head of if it's not.

[Edited 9/20/19 1:33am]

This is new to me... I was told there were only two peach "Clouds", but it seems with the paint analysis this might not be the case... I honestly can't remember the 12th fret spades on the Celebration 2001 guitar to say it was the first or the third "Cloud"... One of the guides there said it was the one used in the movie, but what did they know, right? Seems sad to me that the original "Cloud" from the movie was repainted... Neversin.

I wonder if the Blue Angel used to be the newly build peach cloud. If they still have the Blue Angel around (or maybe that one was also again repainted) they could do a analysis of that one.
I really like to know how many cloud are still at Paisley PArk and which ones were repainted.

Dave Rusan on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/...9260972615

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This week Smithsonian magazine published an article about the iconic guitar that I first built. One has been on display there for many years but this summer a CT scan was done on it and they think it's the one I built for Purple Rain. I know a bit of inside information about the scan and there are some things about the construction that differentiate it from most copies that they could observe so I'm pretty sure it's either the first or one of the two copies that I made for touring. About a year after making the those two, by request, I made the neck narrower on one and I can see it's not that one. Yes, I know it's yellow and has symbols on the fingerboard, but all the ones I made were later repainted in the various colors that were seen in concert. Curiously, the author chose not to mention my name so I became the "luthier at Knut-Koupee music". I reached out to find out why but so far haven't had a reply!

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https://artistwaves.com/d...in-guitar/

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The initial model was intended to be strictly for the film. Prince enjoyed the guitar so much, he started playing it at shows and taking it on tour. “As soon as Prince started using the guitar in concert, outside the movie, they commissioned two more. Actually a forth one was made that Warner Brothers was going to give away through a contest. So I actually made four total,” said Rusan.

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BartVanHemelen said:

Dave Rusan on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/...9260972615

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This week Smithsonian magazine published an article about the iconic guitar that I first built. One has been on display there for many years but this summer a CT scan was done on it and they think it's the one I built for Purple Rain. I know a bit of inside information about the scan and there are some things about the construction that differentiate it from most copies that they could observe so I'm pretty sure it's either the first or one of the two copies that I made for touring. About a year after making the those two, by request, I made the neck narrower on one and I can see it's not that one. Yes, I know it's yellow and has symbols on the fingerboard, but all the ones I made were later repainted in the various colors that were seen in concert. Curiously, the author chose not to mention my name so I became the "luthier at Knut-Koupee music". I reached out to find out why but so far haven't had a reply!

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Great info!
Well, then it seems it really is the first one from the movie.
Cloud #2 is still peach colored and in The Netherlands.
Cloud #3 was supposedly last seen in 2001 still being white.
Cloud #4 at WB or somewhere else.

BartVanHemelen said:

Neversin said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Dave Rusan on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/...9260972615

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Nice! Seems we're getting closer and closer to figuring out where they all went... Neversin.

Do you know who has Cloud #2?

WOW. Great news. So glad its in the Smithsonian. So which were the white ones he "destroyed" in Japan? Were they were just repaired and painted peach later or were those additional copies?

PRNelson said:

eugenius said:

I don't know who you are airth, but I'm in your debt for life. I've wanted to see that footage for decades. Off to YouTube, and again, thanks for pointing those of us who haven't seen it, in the right direction. We speak your name... airth!

I was keen to see this too, but was unsuccessful in finding it on youtune

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https://www.youtube.com/w...pkL78NV41g

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there you go.

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watch from 5:00...

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certainly very bad quality, but it suits the situation i think... makes it more dramatic.

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Vannormal said:

PRNelson said:

eugenius said: I was keen to see this too, but was unsuccessful in finding it on youtune

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https://www.youtube.com/w...pkL78NV41g

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there you go.

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watch from 5:00...

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certainly very bad quality, but it suits the situation i think... makes it more dramatic.

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Is it me or does it seem like he makes a movement with his arm in a way that he pretends to hit Wendy as he walks by her after getting the 2nd cloud?

FYI plenty of pics of the "Smithsonian Cloud" in the thread following the Housequake post on Facebook about the Smithsonian article.

That Smithsonian article I linked on page 1 is also available in the actual magazine they publish (the October 2019 issue, Vol. 50 No. 6). The picture of the guitar is spread accross two pages.

Great article BUT do not believe in its accuracy one bit. P had multiple clouds made.

Rusan all but confirmed that based on his review of the scan, that this likely is the first.

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

Great article BUT do not believe in its accuracy one bit. P had multiple clouds made.

emesem said:

BartVanHemelen said:

FYI plenty of pics of the "Smithsonian Cloud" in the thread following the Housequake post on Facebook about the Smithsonian article.

Was checking some of the posts of Edgar Kruize about the headstock swirl...
He posted three pics of the headstock and how they were the same guitar and had the number one on it when it became "The Blue Angel" and how that indicated it was the first guitar...
But, the first picture he posted with that swirl when it was still white wasn't the first white "Cloud" guitar but the third when checking the spades on the 12th fret...
Now if he is right and the three guitars are the same then that means the third "Cloud" was never stolen or misplaced, but simply repainted and isn't the white "Cloud" seen at the 2001 Celebration...

Neversin.

[Edited 9/24/19 7:04am]