kewlschool said:

Also, all songs he penned and sung by others count as a Prince sale? Both in an album or single sale? He songs are on best selling artists albums which would add to his sales numbers, no?

If songwriting counts as sales, then people like Diane Warren & David Foster would probably be near the top on a biggest sellers list and also the writers of popular Christmas songs like Jingle Bells & Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer. The Beatles would have even more sales since acts from many genres have remade their songs. There's been over 2,000 covers of Yesterday alone.

MickyDolenz said:

Oh I'm just being glib, in 2019 music criticism is mostly must-be-a-cheerleader-stan-at-all-times poptimism over any attempt to like pop music with a critical ear so i don't really feel there's a lack of those who are willing to stick up for what once upon a time was deemed uncool. If you want to make a case for Kenny G then go for it, I'm listening. I have no time for live and let live unless we all agree to never share our opinions, if we have to talk about it then its up to us to convince the sceptical.
[Edited 8/21/19 14:43pm]

jaawwnn said:

Oh I'm just being glib, in 2019 music criticism is mostly must-be-a-cheerleader-stan-at-all-times poptimism over any attempt to like pop music with a critical ear so i don't really feel there's a lack of those who are willing to stick up for what once upon a time was deemed uncool.

It seems to me that it's generally the "uncool" artists who sell more (or get more Youtube views with today's audience) than "cool" ones. So that means their music is more likely to be passed along to further generations by continuing to get played on oldies & classic rock stations like Journey & Def Leppard or get put in GTA games. The buying public has spoken. Critics don't buy records, they get them for free. So what difference does it make if they think a record is cool or not? Like Davis Lee Roth said "Critics like Elvis Costello because they look like Elvis Costello". The general public do not read music reviews, they hear a song on the radio and decide whether they like it or not and then buy it. The Purple Rain album sold what it did because the songs got a lot of radio airplay, the songs from Lovesexy didn't and it flopped. The album cover didn't help either. The same happened with others like Born In The USA by Bruce Springsteen & Alanis Alanis Morissette's Jagged Little Pill. Those albums got a lot of Top 40 airplay and the albums after them didn't and sold nowhere near as well. A lot of people aren't interested in albums in the first place, only the songs on the radio. That's why Greatest Hits/Best Of are popular sellers. I think the Greatest Hits of acts like Abba, Eagles, Bob Marley, & Queen have sold more than any of their original albums. Technically, Thriller & Bad are Greatest Hits albums. There's the popularity of K-Tel in the record era and Now That's What I Call Music in the CD era or even Kidz Bop. It was Johnny Mathis who first popularized the hits album and the Christmas album. He was never considered a "cool" artist.

MickyDolenz said:

jaawwnn said:

Oh I'm just being glib, in 2019 music criticism is mostly must-be-a-cheerleader-stan-at-all-times poptimism over any attempt to like pop music with a critical ear so i don't really feel there's a lack of those who are willing to stick up for what once upon a time was deemed uncool.

It seems to me that it's generally the "uncool" artists who sell more (or get more Youtube views with today's audience) than "cool" ones. So that means their music is more likely to be passed along to further generations by continuing to get played on oldies & classic rock stations like Journey & Def Leppard or get put in GTA games. The buying public has spoken. Critics don't buy records, they get them for free. So what difference does it make if they think a record is cool or not? Like Davis Lee Roth said "Critics like Elvis Costello because they look like Elvis Costello". The general public do not read music reviews, they hear a song on the radio and decide whether they like it or not and then buy it.

Well for starters, what year do you think this is?? No one buys records in 2019. Secondly, Yes, it's fucking insane that the likes of David Lee Roth, multimillionaires with women hanging out of them left, right and centre, start getting all bitchy about these critics. Dude, you already won, what are you so upset about, why are you so insecure about your own music? No one pays any attention to critics or you wouldn't be selling all those albums. Enjoy your life.

And I say all this as someone who reads critics and is still more likely to be caught listening to David Lee Roth than Elvis Costello.

The Purple Rain album sold what it did because the songs got a lot of radio airplay, the songs from Lovesexy didn't and it flopped. The album cover didn't help either. The same happened with others like Born In The USA by Bruce Springsteen & Alanis Alanis Morissette's Jagged Little Pill. Those albums got a lot of Top 40 airplay and the albums after them didn't and sold nowhere near as well. A lot of people aren't interested in albums in the first place, only the songs on the radio. That's why Greatest Hits/Best Of are popular sellers. I think the Greatest Hits of acts like Abba, Eagles, Bob Marley, & Queen have sold more than any of their original albums. Technically, Thriller & Bad are Greatest Hits albums. There's the popularity of K-Tel in the record era and Now That's What I Call Music in the CD era or even Kidz Bop. It was Johnny Mathis who first popularized the hits album and the Christmas album. He was never considered a "cool" artist.

I have no idea what your point here is. Popular albums sell loads because they are popular and no one can ever question their popularity and sales is the only measureable metric therefore the best metric of everthing?

If you're trying to talk me into liking pop music you can stop wasting your breath, I already like pop music, but selling a bucketload of albums isn't going to stop me looking at an album with a critical eye.

[Edited 8/22/19 2:44am]

jaawwnn said:

If you're trying to talk me into liking pop music you can stop wasting your breath, I already like pop music, but selling a bucketload of albums isn't going to stop me looking at an album with a critical eye.

I'm not trying to convince you of what to like, but it's the idea of people wanting to buy LaToya Jackson or Kenny G reissues as embarrasing. It doesn't matter if you like them or not, but saying that the people who do are uncool. Why does music have to be cool to be valid? It's like people who make jokes about the music of John Tesh or Yanni. The rock media like Rolling Stone tends to promote the idea that 1960s popular music was only The Beatles, British Invasion, Motown, psychedelic rock & hippies. During the same time Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass and bossa nova music was really popular and so were easy listening artists like Percy Faith, James Last, & Mantovani. The Lawrence Welk Show was on the air for almost 30 years and PBS still shows reruns of it. Louis Armstrong had a #1 pop hit with Hello Dolly during Beatlemania.