djThunderfunk said:

scififilmnerd said:

Great news, even though Sugar Walls ain't on it. I'm totally looking forward to this. I suppose the Deluxe CD will be the one to get.

I have a feeling that when they say "and limited edition Deluxe CD+2LP formats will follow" that "Deluxe" could very well mean the CD and the 2LP in one package. I mean, if it was meant as Deluxe CD or Deluxe 2LP, wouldn't the 2LP be more than 2? 3LP maybe?

Oh, you're probably right.

I'll just buy the regular CD then. I don't want no LPs.

databank said:

Kares said:

.
The way I see it: 'Crystal Ball' was a pretty big project for Prince so I don't think Warners would've just turned a blind eye if that would've been something they could sue for. It wasn't just one song on Bellmark Records that they hoped would die in obscurity. And as you say, there were plenty of other instances of Prince releasing stuff that was recorded before 1996.
But another aspect of the story is that Warners probably didn't even know about many of Prince's unreleased songs, he only shared with them what he wanted.
.
I know Alan Leeds said that everything belonged to Warners between '77 and '96, but I think it's an argument that could occupy a couple of legal teams for months or years in court, should it come to that. Because Prince's case is different from those artists' who were simply given studio time by their label who financed everything. When you record in your home day and night, in your own studio, it's not as simple for your label to put their hands on everything you create.
They would surely have the right of first refusal, but when you have a 5-year contract with them for let's say 5 albums, and in that period you record 50 albums in your home, on your own budget, there would definitely be a big argument over who owns what.
.

I don't know anymore than I've said so IDK. Honestly back in 98 no one but Prince fans and the press really knew about CB, it was a very low profile release, so I wouldn't call it a big project, not big enough for WB to bother IMHO, and the fact is that there were several WB songs on it, some remixed and some nearly as such, that definitely called for WB suing.

So IDK, all I can hope is that people like Duane will eventually interviewx the right people and shed light on what really happened and what P's contract really meant in terms of ownership.

Regardless and to go back to the original topic, I don't know of a case where, say, an artist took their lead vocals and some elements of a hit song and had it remixed and released by another label. This seems to suggest that any sound included in a master is legally considered part of said master, mpultitracks or not. But again I'm just speculating. I'm sure there are music lawyers who know and could tell us. Thing is the Dance Electric situation was a first to me, I'm not aware of any such situations happening before.

.
Identical elements on different masters don't necessarily result in a copyright infringement case. There could be totally different recordings on different labels using exactly the same drum machine preset, for example. Even if they sound identical, there's a legit source for both of those recordings, so one label cannot sue the other.

But if you copy something off another recording, you have no legit source you can claim as your own. In case of owning the multitracks (especially when the recordings were composed, performed, produced by yourself on your own budget), you do have a valid claim for the rights of reusing those. Some would might argue, but as I said, I think it's a subject that could be debated in court by legal teams on both sides for quite awhile.
.

databank said:

fabriziovenerandi said:

.

Probally I'll be the only one, but I'm not disappointed. I prefer to have a cool album to listen instead a pile of song.

The problem is that this sequencing appears to be just that: a pile of songs. It could have been so much better.

It seems to me much better than Purple Rain Deluxe, vault section. We'll see.

I pray for sound quality. Purple Rain Deluxe, vault section, was weak here and there.

Bad sources.

f.

[Edited 4/29/19 12:21pm]

[Edited 4/29/19 12:22pm]

tmcjb said:

Found the track times. Prepare to be disappointed.

https://www.rhino.com/pro...ginals#1cd

1. Sex Shooter 3.06

2. Jungle Love 3.04

3. Manic Monday 2.51

4. Noon Rendezvous 3.00

5. Make-Up 2.27

6. 100 MPH 3.31

7. You're My Love 4.24

8. Holly Rock 6.39

9. Baby, You're a Trip 5.52

10. The Glamorous Life 4.12

11. Gigolos Get Lonely Too 4.41

12. Love... Thy Will Be Done 4.09

13. Dear Michaelangelo 5.22

14. Wouldn't You Love to Love Me? 5.57

15. Nothing Compares 2 U 4.39

Looks like they're all edits. Sex Shooter and Jungle Love are both shorter than the final released versions.

[Edited 4/29/19 10:15am]

Well, the Glamorous Life is shorter than the bootlegged version, but the others we have, like 100 MPH, Dear Michaelangelo and Nothing Compares 2 U seems about the same length. And Baby, You're A Trip is actually longer on this release.

tmcjb said:

Found the track times. Prepare to be disappointed.

https://www.rhino.com/pro...ginals#1cd

1. Sex Shooter 3.06

2. Jungle Love 3.04

3. Manic Monday 2.51

4. Noon Rendezvous 3.00

5. Make-Up 2.27

6. 100 MPH 3.31

7. You're My Love 4.24

8. Holly Rock 6.39

9. Baby, You're a Trip 5.52

10. The Glamorous Life 4.12

11. Gigolos Get Lonely Too 4.41

12. Love... Thy Will Be Done 4.09

13. Dear Michaelangelo 5.22

14. Wouldn't You Love to Love Me? 5.57

15. Nothing Compares 2 U 4.39

Looks like they're all edits. Sex Shooter and Jungle Love are both shorter than the final released versions.

[Edited 4/29/19 10:15am]

I already posted them earlier on the thread.

TheSilentMikey said:

tmcjb said:

Found the track times. Prepare to be disappointed.

https://www.rhino.com/pro...ginals#1cd

1. Sex Shooter 3.06

2. Jungle Love 3.04

3. Manic Monday 2.51

4. Noon Rendezvous 3.00

5. Make-Up 2.27

6. 100 MPH 3.31

7. You're My Love 4.24

8. Holly Rock 6.39

9. Baby, You're a Trip 5.52

10. The Glamorous Life 4.12

11. Gigolos Get Lonely Too 4.41

12. Love... Thy Will Be Done 4.09

13. Dear Michaelangelo 5.22

14. Wouldn't You Love to Love Me? 5.57

15. Nothing Compares 2 U 4.39

Looks like they're all edits. Sex Shooter and Jungle Love are both shorter than the final released versions.

[Edited 4/29/19 10:15am]

I already posted them earlier on the thread.

Apologies, I must've missed it in the flurry of photos lol.

tmcjb said:

Kares said:

databank said:

I don't know anymore than I've said so IDK. Honestly back in 98 no one but Prince fans and the press really knew about CB, it was a very low profile release, so I wouldn't call it a big project, not big enough for WB to bother IMHO, and the fact is that there were several WB songs on it, some remixed and some nearly as such, that definitely called for WB suing.

So IDK, all I can hope is that people like Duane will eventually interviewx the right people and shed light on what really happened and what P's contract really meant in terms of ownership.

Regardless and to go back to the original topic, I don't know of a case where, say, an artist took their lead vocals and some elements of a hit song and had it remixed and released by another label. This seems to suggest that any sound included in a master is legally considered part of said master, mpultitracks or not. But again I'm just speculating. I'm sure there are music lawyers who know and could tell us. Thing is the Dance Electric situation was a first to me, I'm not aware of any such situations happening before.

.
Identical elements on different masters don't necessarily result in a copyright infringement case. There could be totally different recordings on different labels using exactly the same drum machine preset, for example. Even if they sound identical, there's a legit source for both of those recordings, so one label cannot sue the other.

But if you copy something off another recording, you have no legit source you can claim as your own. In case of owning the multitracks (especially when the recordings were composed, performed, produced by yourself on your own budget), you do have a valid claim for the rights of reusing those. Some would might argue, but as I said, I think it's a subject that could be debated in court by legal teams on both sides for quite awhile.
.

Seeing as how this release is likely going to sell about 18 million, the sample of Sheila sneezing might garner a few dollars for somebody. Oh wait, since this has taken over 3 years after his death, with all the fumbling and bumbling by all parties, including old pal Londell McMuffin, it will be lucky to move 40,000, so the motive for lawsuits over pennies is likely null.

Kares said:

databank said:

I don't know anymore than I've said so IDK. Honestly back in 98 no one but Prince fans and the press really knew about CB, it was a very low profile release, so I wouldn't call it a big project, not big enough for WB to bother IMHO, and the fact is that there were several WB songs on it, some remixed and some nearly as such, that definitely called for WB suing.

So IDK, all I can hope is that people like Duane will eventually interviewx the right people and shed light on what really happened and what P's contract really meant in terms of ownership.

Regardless and to go back to the original topic, I don't know of a case where, say, an artist took their lead vocals and some elements of a hit song and had it remixed and released by another label. This seems to suggest that any sound included in a master is legally considered part of said master, mpultitracks or not. But again I'm just speculating. I'm sure there are music lawyers who know and could tell us. Thing is the Dance Electric situation was a first to me, I'm not aware of any such situations happening before.

.
Identical elements on different masters don't necessarily result in a copyright infringement case. There could be totally different recordings on different labels using exactly the same drum machine preset, for example. Even if they sound identical, there's a legit source for both of those recordings, so one label cannot sue the other.

But if you copy something off another recording, you have no legit source you can claim as your own. In case of owning the multitracks (especially when the recordings were composed, performed, produced by yourself on your own budget), you do have a valid claim for the rights of reusing those. Some would might argue, but as I said, I think it's a subject that could be debated in court by legal teams on both sides for quite awhile.
.

Yes, in the end it's a matter of jurisprudence. Would be interesting to see how this would go in court.

E319 said:

tmcjb said:

Found the track times. Prepare to be disappointed.

https://www.rhino.com/pro...ginals#1cd

1. Sex Shooter 3.06

2. Jungle Love 3.04

3. Manic Monday 2.51

4. Noon Rendezvous 3.00

5. Make-Up 2.27

6. 100 MPH 3.31

7. You're My Love 4.24

8. Holly Rock 6.39

9. Baby, You're a Trip 5.52

10. The Glamorous Life 4.12

11. Gigolos Get Lonely Too 4.41

12. Love... Thy Will Be Done 4.09

13. Dear Michaelangelo 5.22

14. Wouldn't You Love to Love Me? 5.57

15. Nothing Compares 2 U 4.39

Looks like they're all edits. Sex Shooter and Jungle Love are both shorter than the final released versions.

[Edited 4/29/19 10:15am]

Disappointed at the track time for “Noon Rendezvous.” Was hoping It had a guitar solo and the “Sitting at this cafe, waiting for my baby” part like in that awesome rehearsal bootleg.

Why would it?

fabriziovenerandi said:

databank said:

The problem is that this sequencing appears to be just that: a pile of songs. It could have been so much better.

It seems to me much better than Purple Rain Deluxe, vault section. We'll see.

I pray for sound quality. Purple Rain Deluxe, vault section, was weak here and there.

Bad sources.

f.

[Edited 4/29/19 12:21pm]

[Edited 4/29/19 12:22pm]

IDK. Maybe I'll be blown away by how it plays in sequence. So far I'm not convinced but we'll see. I think most people won't care because they make their own playlists and don't care about albums anyway, so in that sense I guess the Estate doesn't need worriying...

scififilmnerd said:

Well, the Glamorous Life is shorter than the bootlegged version, but the others we have, like 100 MPH, Dear Michaelangelo and Nothing Compares 2 U seems about the same length. And Baby, You're A Trip is actually longer on this release.

I think some of "the Glamorous Life" is a fan edit... it get noticeably clearer at one point.

tmcjb said:

Found the track times. Prepare to be disappointed.

https://www.rhino.com/pro...ginals#1cd

1. Sex Shooter 3.06

2. Jungle Love 3.04

3. Manic Monday 2.51

4. Noon Rendezvous 3.00

5. Make-Up 2.27

6. 100 MPH 3.31

7. You're My Love 4.24

8. Holly Rock 6.39

9. Baby, You're a Trip 5.52

10. The Glamorous Life 4.12

11. Gigolos Get Lonely Too 4.41

12. Love... Thy Will Be Done 4.09

13. Dear Michaelangelo 5.22

14. Wouldn't You Love to Love Me? 5.57

15. Nothing Compares 2 U 4.39

Looks like they're all edits. Sex Shooter and Jungle Love are both shorter than the final released versions.

[Edited 4/29/19 10:15am]

It seems silly to press 64 minutes across 2 vinyl and leave 15 minutes on the CD - especially if purposeful edits have been made.

Fingers crossed these track times are wrong.

[Edited 4/29/19 15:38pm]

tmcjb said:

Found the track times. Prepare to be disappointed.

https://www.rhino.com/pro...ginals#1cd

1. Sex Shooter 3.06

2. Jungle Love 3.04

3. Manic Monday 2.51

4. Noon Rendezvous 3.00

5. Make-Up 2.27

6. 100 MPH 3.31

7. You're My Love 4.24

8. Holly Rock 6.39

9. Baby, You're a Trip 5.52

10. The Glamorous Life 4.12

11. Gigolos Get Lonely Too 4.41

12. Love... Thy Will Be Done 4.09

13. Dear Michaelangelo 5.22

14. Wouldn't You Love to Love Me? 5.57

15. Nothing Compares 2 U 4.39

Looks like they're all edits. Sex Shooter and Jungle Love are both shorter than the final released versions.

[Edited 4/29/19 10:15am]

GODDAMMIT!

bluegangsta said:

tmcjb said:

Found the track times. Prepare to be disappointed.

https://www.rhino.com/pro...ginals#1cd

Looks like they're all edits. Sex Shooter and Jungle Love are both shorter than the final released versions.

[Edited 4/29/19 10:15am]

It seems silly to press 64 minutes across 2 vinyl and leave 15 minutes on the CD - especially if purposeful edits have been made.

Fingers crossed these track times are wrong.

[Edited 4/29/19 15:38pm]

Nearly the ENTIRE music industry has no clue cds hold 79:57 min worth of music on a single disc. (Sarcasm for the Money hungry idiots).... The Estate, Troy Carter, Londell McMuffin, Warners HAVE NO CLUE....Piano & Micro had 34 Minutes of Music. Thousands of hours of music in the vault, and we get 34 minutes...

They may as well have put 1 min of music on 34 cds, just to charge us more. Yes, 64 min is better than 34, but it's still a point of contention. The cd industry is dying, and maybe they could learn a thing or two about catering to Die Hard Fans. Putting the Prince version of Dance Electric with the guitar solo, and maybe the original Old Friends 4 Sale(since it would fit the theme of the album, even though Joe Cocker rejected it). Even Prince himself had no idea cds could hold 80 minutes. Crystal ball was like 40 min a disc, and the 5 disc version easily could have fit on 3 discs, keeping costs down for an "independent" release. Even Emancipation had to have the silly 60 min each disc thing. Another full 60 min could have fit...

Sure we all know Prince did crazy things and did not cater to fans in multiple situations. But the posthumous releases should all be 70 min or more...but they don't care, and likely never will.

stillwaiting said:

bluegangsta said:

It seems silly to press 64 minutes across 2 vinyl and leave 15 minutes on the CD - especially if purposeful edits have been made.

Fingers crossed these track times are wrong.

[Edited 4/29/19 15:38pm]

Nearly the ENTIRE music industry has no clue cds hold 79:57 min worth of music on a single disc. (Sarcasm for the Money hungry idiots).... The Estate, Troy Carter, Londell McMuffin, Warners HAVE NO CLUE....Piano & Micro had 34 Minutes of Music. Thousands of hours of music in the vault, and we get 34 minutes...

They may as well have put 1 min of music on 34 cds, just to charge us more. Yes, 64 min is better than 34, but it's still a point of contention. The cd industry is dying, and maybe they could learn a thing or two about catering to Die Hard Fans. Putting the Prince version of Dance Electric with the guitar solo, and maybe the original Old Friends 4 Sale(since it would fit the theme of the album, even though Joe Cocker rejected it). Even Prince himself had no idea cds could hold 80 minutes. Crystal ball was like 40 min a disc, and the 5 disc version easily could have fit on 3 discs, keeping costs down for an "independent" release. Even Emancipation had to have the silly 60 min each disc thing. Another full 60 min could have fit...

Sure we all know Prince did crazy things and did not cater to fans in multiple situations. But the posthumous releases should all be 70 min or more...but they don't care, and likely never will.

I am learning so much on this thread!! I agree - a total waste for what could have been 40 additional minutes of his music....

sulls said:

tmcjb said:

Found the track times. Prepare to be disappointed.

https://www.rhino.com/pro...ginals#1cd

1. Sex Shooter 3.06

2. Jungle Love 3.04

3. Manic Monday 2.51

4. Noon Rendezvous 3.00

5. Make-Up 2.27

6. 100 MPH 3.31

7. You're My Love 4.24

8. Holly Rock 6.39

9. Baby, You're a Trip 5.52

10. The Glamorous Life 4.12

11. Gigolos Get Lonely Too 4.41

12. Love... Thy Will Be Done 4.09

13. Dear Michaelangelo 5.22

14. Wouldn't You Love to Love Me? 5.57

15. Nothing Compares 2 U 4.39

Looks like they're all edits. Sex Shooter and Jungle Love are both shorter than the final released versions.

[Edited 4/29/19 10:15am]

GODDAMMIT!

The version of Sex Shooter (1983) with Vanity on lead vocals is 7:07 mins why the edits?

Whose crummy idea is it for these edits, anyway??? Frickin' moron(s). I'd rather give my money to EYE...

Goddess4Real said:

sulls said:

GODDAMMIT!

The version of Sex Shooter (1983) with Vanity on lead vocals is 7:07 mins why the edits?

-

So they can double dip and resell them again later in extended form. Plus most people have ridiculously short attention spans and can't handle anything over three and a half minutes. Most fans on this forum would prefer the full versions, but I imagine they're going to market this to a larger audience so as to expand the fan base beyond us Orgers and they don't want to scare off those potential new fans with long tracks. But, yeah...whatever the reason, for me it's frustrating as well as disappointing.

Gah-damn, I wish Housequake would retrun.

64 minutes is a good timing. An album is not it is not a a manger of the stye where more food put more it becomes good. The bootlegs are unlistable.

[Edited 4/29/19 22:39pm]

Goddess4Real said:

sulls said:

GODDAMMIT!

The version of Sex Shooter (1983) with Vanity on lead vocals is 7:07 mins why the edits?

.

But: is this one the Vanity version or a unheard Prince version?

.

databank said:

At some point there's nothing to do about this until you start fucking it up like they did with NC2U by adding additional elements from the final version to the original recording. I actually hope with all my heart that NC2U will be the real Prince mix instead of the atrocious shit we've been given last year.

There's a chance that the cinematic version listed as an additional track on the Japanese release is the strings version we had last year, with the original being the one on this.

[Edited 4/30/19 0:39am]

rdhull said:

Gah-damn, I wish Housequake would retrun.

https://www.housequake.com

fabriziovenerandi said:

Goddess4Real said:

The version of Sex Shooter (1983) with Vanity on lead vocals is 7:07 mins why the edits?

.

But: is this one the Vanity version or a unheard Prince version?

.

Clearly a version with P on vocals. Prince would often try multiple edits of songs and the album version as well as the single edit of the A6 cut are quite short. I dare hope the Estate found this version as such and did not edit it themselves.

embmmusic said:

databank said:

At some point there's nothing to do about this until you start fucking it up like they did with NC2U by adding additional elements from the final version to the original recording. I actually hope with all my heart that NC2U will be the real Prince mix instead of the atrocious shit we've been given last year.

There's a chance that the cinematic version listed as an additional track on the Japanese release is the strings version we had last year, with the original being the one on this.

[Edited 4/30/19 0:39am]

I had the same thought and I really hope this is the case.

stillwaiting said:

bluegangsta said:

It seems silly to press 64 minutes across 2 vinyl and leave 15 minutes on the CD - especially if purposeful edits have been made.

Fingers crossed these track times are wrong.

[Edited 4/29/19 15:38pm]

Nearly the ENTIRE music industry has no clue cds hold 79:57 min worth of music on a single disc. (Sarcasm for the Money hungry idiots).... The Estate, Troy Carter, Londell McMuffin, Warners HAVE NO CLUE....Piano & Micro had 34 Minutes of Music. Thousands of hours of music in the vault, and we get 34 minutes...

They may as well have put 1 min of music on 34 cds, just to charge us more. Yes, 64 min is better than 34, but it's still a point of contention. The cd industry is dying, and maybe they could learn a thing or two about catering to Die Hard Fans. Putting the Prince version of Dance Electric with the guitar solo, and maybe the original Old Friends 4 Sale(since it would fit the theme of the album, even though Joe Cocker rejected it). Even Prince himself had no idea cds could hold 80 minutes. Crystal ball was like 40 min a disc, and the 5 disc version easily could have fit on 3 discs, keeping costs down for an "independent" release. Even Emancipation had to have the silly 60 min each disc thing. Another full 60 min could have fit...

Sure we all know Prince did crazy things and did not cater to fans in multiple situations. But the posthumous releases should all be 70 min or more...but they don't care, and likely never will.

.

Sounds like it's you who doesn't have a clue.
First of all: music is an art form and we don't judge art by quantity. Do you? Do you judge books by their length?
.
Trust me, I too would love to be able to buy 10-CD box sets of Prince's unreleased masters, with each CD filled to the rim. But the average length of albums is around 40 minutes. Even today, when it really doesn't make much difference in online distribution costs to put out a 10-song or a 20-song album as a download, a lot of artists still put out 30-40 minute albums.

.

I hate to break it to you but producing music actually costs money, even when it's music already recorded. There are copyrights to be paid – the longer your CD is, the more the label will have to pay! There are also production costs involved and those largely depend on the amount of material. Furthermore: there are technical issues with CDs of a very long playing time that should be taken into consideration. The vast majority of CD-players in the world are very basic, cheap and nasty things. Portables, car stereos and such. And those players often have trouble coping with playing 70+ min. discs, as that requires a decent mechanism that is able to spin the disc without letting it jiggle like a spinning plate on a stick. The further the laser pickup has to go out towards the rim of the CD to read it, the more blurred its "vision" will be in cheap players, so they start to lose tracking and playback will start skipping as the error-correction algorithm will be unable to cope with so many read errors.
So the bottom line is that a lot of labels tend to avoid producing CDs that go beyond 70 minutes.
.

But sure, no-one in the industry has a clue about the maximum playing time of CDs, and Prince didn't have a clue either, only you do.

.

databank said:

embmmusic said:

There's a chance that the cinematic version listed as an additional track on the Japanese release is the strings version we had last year, with the original being the one on this.

[Edited 4/30/19 0:39am]

I had the same thought and I really hope this is the case.

.
Or it's simply the video clip of the song.

Goddess4Real said:

sulls said:

GODDAMMIT!

The version of Sex Shooter (1983) with Vanity on lead vocals is 7:07 mins why the edits?

the original 7" is just over three minutes.

We still have no idea what versions of these songs will be used, I can't think of any version of Jungle Love that's that short so it'll be interesting to see what we end up with. Based on what they did with Nothing Compares these could be all new mixes from the original tapes that have nothing to do with their original intent.

I apologize for my outburst. Patience is wearing thin...