bluegangsta said:

feeluupp said:

So basically this is just a more polished Blast from the past album

Just leaving this here. #Prince #PrinceCelebration2019 pic.twitter.com/guPEA7Umm5

— (@Cameron_John) April 28, 2019

Oh my God, seamless.


Here, do we know if there's anything extra on the "deluxe edition" of this? Being that they're demos I don't really see much reason to get this on vinyl, CD should be fine, but maybe some decent liner notes would be worth spending on....

OnlyNDaUsa said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Oh please, what bullshit. He said a release on 7 April. Which didn't happen.

.

Sweet lord, some of you are beyond ridiculous.

come on he was off by 2 months... every thing else was spot on...

.

How about you read the link I posted there.

.

Sweet jebus, some of you lot remember nothing.

bluegangsta said:

feeluupp said:

So basically this is just a more polished Blast from the past album

Just leaving this here. #Prince #PrinceCelebration2019 pic.twitter.com/guPEA7Umm5

— (@Cameron_John) April 28, 2019

eye logo and all

BartVanHemelen said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

come on he was off by 2 months... every thing else was spot on...

.

How about you read the link I posted there.

.

Sweet jebus, some of you lot remember nothing.

I think you do not remember all the bullshits you wrote about Prince here in latest, uh, 20+ years.

We are helping you not to spend all your money in psychotherapists, but let us breathe.

f.

feeluupp said:

So basically this is just a more polished Blast from the past album

.

More like a 'Highlights from BFTP'. A 'Blast From The Past 7.0' would have 4-5x more material and it probably would be better curated too.

bluegangsta said:

IstenSzek said:

bluegangsta said:

eye logo and all

Funny but you do wonder if there is anything to be read into the snippet (all 3 seconds) of Gigolos Get Lonely Too...

I wish I could get this comparison out of my head

Too many similarities for my liking - Yuck

I'll labour the point further

mclihah2 said:

You're right Mikado - My problem is that I'm in the "Michael Jackson did it" camp - Which I understand many people are not - so not wanting to get into a flame war at all

All that being said - I'll go and take a chill pill and get on with my life

mclihah2 said:

I wish I could get this comparison out of my head

Too many similarities for my liking - Yuck

To their defense, the graffiti was on the DM back cover: http://www.vinylmeplease....ack-cover/

My problem is more with forcing the DM esthetics to a compilation spanning 1981-1991. Makes little sense to me. Ideally they could have made a collage of the related artists' albums or singles' covers, but I guess for all the non-WB stuff there would have been rights issues.

Ideally, as with The Dance Electric, I'm even surprised they can get away with using the backing tracks of songs owned by other labels (Manic and Love in that case), since technically owning those masters mean owning every bit of sound on them. WB could technically haver been forced to pay a sample licence.

mclihah2 said:

databank said:

mclihah2 said:

I wish I could get this comparison out of my head

Too many similarities for my liking - Yuck

To their defense, the graffiti was on the DM back cover: http://www.vinylmeplease....ack-cover/

My problem is more with forcing the DM esthetics to a compilation spanning 1981-1991. Makes little sense to me. Ideally they could have made a collage of the related artists' albums or singles' covers, but I guess for all the non-WB stuff there would have been rights issues.

Ideally, as with The Dance Electric, I'm even surprised they can get away with using the backing tracks of songs owned by other labels (Manic and Love in that case), since technically owning those masters mean owning every bit of sound on them. WB could technically haver been forced to pay a sample licence.

they're actually all in the booklet with the release, so no issues there

I'm just wondering when they'll drop a single?!? It'd be nice to hear one of hese before the June 7th release date. Wait, how would that even work? Maybe release a single on Tidal only for 14 days? Damn politics...

Found the track times. Prepare to be disappointed.

https://www.rhino.com/pro...ginals#1cd

[Edited 4/29/19 10:15am]

databank said:

.

Ideally, as with The Dance Electric, I'm even surprised they can get away with using the backing tracks of songs owned by other labels (Manic and Love in that case), since technically owning those masters mean owning every bit of sound on them. WB could technically haver been forced to pay a sample licence.

.
Not really, as Prince owned the multitracks (and they aren't even protected by copyright as they weren't published). Only the final mixdown tapes with Martika's or Sheena Easton's or the Bangles' or whomever's vocals are owned by their record companies, but Prince was (and now the Estate still is) free to reuse or release the same multitracks for a new mixdown tape without these other artists' vocals. (As he has reused the basic rhythm tracks of 'Love... Thy Will Be Done' for 'One Of Us', for example.)

.

IstenSzek said:

databank said:

To their defense, the graffiti was on the DM back cover: http://www.vinylmeplease....ack-cover/

My problem is more with forcing the DM esthetics to a compilation spanning 1981-1991. Makes little sense to me. Ideally they could have made a collage of the related artists' albums or singles' covers, but I guess for all the non-WB stuff there would have been rights issues.

Ideally, as with The Dance Electric, I'm even surprised they can get away with using the backing tracks of songs owned by other labels (Manic and Love in that case), since technically owning those masters mean owning every bit of sound on them. WB could technically haver been forced to pay a sample licence.

they're actually all in the booklet with the release, so no issues there

I guess booklet would be fair use but cover IDK.

Where and how did you see the booklet??

Kares said:

databank said:

.

Ideally, as with The Dance Electric, I'm even surprised they can get away with using the backing tracks of songs owned by other labels (Manic and Love in that case), since technically owning those masters mean owning every bit of sound on them. WB could technically haver been forced to pay a sample licence.

.
Not really, as Prince owned the multitracks (and they aren't even protected by copyright as they weren't published). Only the final mixdown tapes with Martika's or Sheena Easton's or the Bangles' or whomever's vocals are owned by their record companies, but Prince was (and now the Estate still is) free to reuse or release the same multitracks for a new mixdown tape without these other artists' vocals. (As he has reused the basic rhythm tracks of 'Love... Thy Will Be Done' for 'One Of Us', for example.)

.

Are you certain of that? I mean is there any jurisprudence on a case like this?

Because he got away with One Of Us of course (and many others, including lots of WB-owned things he used after leaving WB), but for example it's been widely speculated (including by people in P's entourage) that WB would have been in a position to block the sampler series release had Prince pursued this project, despite the samples coming from the multitracks.

Typically, George Clinton once had to licence a sample from Capitol... to sample himself He could simply have claimed to have used the multitracks (but admitedly he may just not have thought of that).

To put it another way, if Prince had wanted to rerecord his whole discography and release it to compete with WB, following your argument it would have meant he could simply have remixed all the songs and gotten away with it? I find this hard to believe. This would create a legal loophole that'd mean that artists can basically avoid labels masters-ownership by remixing a track or even whole albums without the original label's approval and that's unheard of as far as I know.

databank said:

mclihah2 said:

I wish I could get this comparison out of my head

Too many similarities for my liking - Yuck

To their defense, the graffiti was on the DM back cover: http://www.vinylmeplease....ack-cover/

My problem is more with forcing the DM esthetics to a compilation spanning 1981-1991. Makes little sense to me. Ideally they could have made a collage of the related artists' albums or singles' covers, but I guess for all the non-WB stuff there would have been rights issues.

Ideally, as with The Dance Electric, I'm even surprised they can get away with using the backing tracks of songs owned by other labels (Manic and Love in that case), since technically owning those masters mean owning every bit of sound on them. WB could technically haver been forced to pay a sample licence.

Not much of a defense though is it? It's a weak as hell image for this release. The Eye Records comparison is spot-on.

My most generous guess is they're trying to draw a comparison between Dirty Mind sounding like a demo for the fuller Prince sound and these tracks being demo-like in quality (I assume).

I'd say the MJ thing is co-incidental, although it's pretty funny.

databank said:

Kares said:

.
Not really, as Prince owned the multitracks (and they aren't even protected by copyright as they weren't published). Only the final mixdown tapes with Martika's or Sheena Easton's or the Bangles' or whomever's vocals are owned by their record companies, but Prince was (and now the Estate still is) free to reuse or release the same multitracks for a new mixdown tape without these other artists' vocals. (As he has reused the basic rhythm tracks of 'Love... Thy Will Be Done' for 'One Of Us', for example.)

.

Are you certain of that? I mean is there any jurisprudence on a case like this?

Because he got away with One Of Us of course (and many others, including lots of WB-owned things he used after leaving WB), but for example it's been widely speculated (including by people in P's entourage) that WB would have been in a position to block the sampler series release had Prince pursued this project, despite the samples coming from the multitracks.

Typically, George Clinton once had to licence a sample from Capitol... to sample himself He could simply have claimed to have used the multitracks (but admitedly he may just not have thought of that).

To put it another way, if Prince had wanted to rerecord his whole discography and release it to compete with WB, following your argument it would have meant he could simply have remixed all the songs and gotten away with it? I find this hard to believe. This would create a legal loophole that'd mean that artists can basically avoid labels masters-ownership by remixing a track or even whole albums without the original label's approval and that's unheard of as far as I know.

Didn't Prince say (during the late 90's when he was fighting WB for his masters -

*

"If I want to own Purple Rain I'd have to re-record it" ??? And I think I remember him saying "we're in the process of re-recording everything I did with WB..." or something similar to that.

*

Is this what you are talking about? Sorry, I'm really a layman when it comes to the legalities of the recording industry.

databank said:

Kares said:

.
Not really, as Prince owned the multitracks (and they aren't even protected by copyright as they weren't published). Only the final mixdown tapes with Martika's or Sheena Easton's or the Bangles' or whomever's vocals are owned by their record companies, but Prince was (and now the Estate still is) free to reuse or release the same multitracks for a new mixdown tape without these other artists' vocals. (As he has reused the basic rhythm tracks of 'Love... Thy Will Be Done' for 'One Of Us', for example.)

.

Are you certain of that? I mean is there any jurisprudence on a case like this?

Because he got away with One Of Us of course (and many others, including lots of WB-owned things he used after leaving WB), but for example it's been widely speculated (including by people in P's entourage) that WB would have been in a position to block the sampler series release had Prince pursued this project, despite the samples coming from the multitracks.

Typically, George Clinton once had to licence a sample from Capitol... to sample himself He could simply have claimed to have used the multitracks (but admitedly he may just not have thought of that).

To put it another way, if Prince had wanted to rerecord his whole discography and release it to compete with WB, following your argument it would have meant he could simply have remixed all the songs and gotten away with it? I find this hard to believe. This would create a legal loophole that'd mean that artists can basically avoid labels masters-ownership by remixing a track or even whole albums without the original label's approval and that's unheard of as far as I know.

.

I'm not 100% sure but that's my understanding of it. Clinton might have had a different contract – one that says "we finance all your recording sessions therefore every tape of every note you record belongs to us". Prince's contracts gave him the freedom to record whenever and whatever he wanted, he even recorded at home, and afaik only the final mixes he delivered to Warners and only those that were accepted by Warners for release became WB-property.

databank said:

IstenSzek said:

they're actually all in the booklet with the release, so no issues there

I guess booklet would be fair use but cover IDK.

Where and how did you see the booklet??

it popped up on facebook in a few places, around the time of the announcement,
along with the back cover. (just the songtitles black font on white background).

at first i thought it might be fanmade but after that i noticed that you can make
it out quite faintly in the BG of the promo shots they had on the large screen at
the celebration. the album and tracklist are there, on a purple background and
you can see, vaguely that the purple is overlaid on top op the artwork for the cd
and lp booklet.

nothing special really, just a very average collage of album and lp label artwork
for the original releases. i wonder if that's all we're going to get in the booklet,
since it was only about 4 pages worth of pics.

Kares said:

databank said:

Are you certain of that? I mean is there any jurisprudence on a case like this?

Because he got away with One Of Us of course (and many others, including lots of WB-owned things he used after leaving WB), but for example it's been widely speculated (including by people in P's entourage) that WB would have been in a position to block the sampler series release had Prince pursued this project, despite the samples coming from the multitracks.

Typically, George Clinton once had to licence a sample from Capitol... to sample himself He could simply have claimed to have used the multitracks (but admitedly he may just not have thought of that).

To put it another way, if Prince had wanted to rerecord his whole discography and release it to compete with WB, following your argument it would have meant he could simply have remixed all the songs and gotten away with it? I find this hard to believe. This would create a legal loophole that'd mean that artists can basically avoid labels masters-ownership by remixing a track or even whole albums without the original label's approval and that's unheard of as far as I know.

.

I'm not 100% sure but that's my understanding of it. Clinton might have had a different contract – one that says "we finance all your recording sessions therefore every tape of every note you record belongs to us". Prince's contracts gave him the freedom to record whenever and whatever he wanted, he even recorded at home, and afaik only the final mixes he delivered to Warners and only those that were accepted by Warners for release became WB-property.

According to Alan Leeds this was not the case. He may be wrong but if anyone would have known it's him, and he once stated that anything Prince recorded between 1977 and 1996 belonged to them, including live shows.

If so, Prince actually took a chance releasing material such as CB, the Rave track and lots of the NPGMC material. Hell, he even rereleased things WB definitely owned (Interactive and Good Love on CB, Horny Pony and Thieves Extended on NPGMC).

Remarkably, Prince seemed quite decided to open the vault between 1998 and 2001, with all the aforementioned releases and announcements such as CBII, Roadhouse Garden, All My Dreams or the sampler series and all of a sudden: blam! Not. A. Single. WB. Era. Release. Anymore.

Ever.

It's circumstancial evidence at best, I realize that, but I wouldn't be surprised that after seeing him rerelease some WB tracks on NPGMC, WB had their lawyers send P a cease and desist and that was the end of it. They probably let it go with CB and all at first because their image had suffered enough with the 3 years-long wars they'd had with him, and they just wanted to put an end to this and suing him would have started it all over again, but I think at some point they realized they had to do something because he was testing their limits.

IstenSzek said:

databank said:

I guess booklet would be fair use but cover IDK.

Where and how did you see the booklet??

it popped up on facebook in a few places, around the time of the announcement,
along with the back cover. (just the songtitles black font on white background).

at first i thought it might be fanmade but after that i noticed that you can make
it out quite faintly in the BG of the promo shots they had on the large screen at
the celebration. the album and tracklist are there, on a purple background and
you can see, vaguely that the purple is overlaid on top op the artwork for the cd
and lp booklet.

nothing special really, just a very average collage of album and lp label artwork
for the original releases. i wonder if that's all we're going to get in the booklet,
since it was only about 4 pages worth of pics.

Maybe the deluxe edition will have liner notes? Like Militant said in his interview with Duane it'd be sad to release WYLTLM and not tell the audience that before fgiving it to Taja, he'd offered it to MJ. A minor song suddenly becomes pop history when you know this!

tmcjb said:

Found the track times. Prepare to be disappointed.

https://www.rhino.com/pro...ginals#1cd

1. Sex Shooter 3.06

2. Jungle Love 3.04

3. Manic Monday 2.51

4. Noon Rendezvous 3.00

5. Make-Up 2.27

6. 100 MPH 3.31

7. You're My Love 4.24

8. Holly Rock 6.39

9. Baby, You're a Trip 5.52

10. The Glamorous Life 4.12

11. Gigolos Get Lonely Too 4.41

12. Love... Thy Will Be Done 4.09

13. Dear Michaelangelo 5.22

14. Wouldn't You Love to Love Me? 5.57

15. Nothing Compares 2 U 4.39

Looks like they're all edits. Sex Shooter and Jungle Love are both shorter than the final released versions.

[Edited 4/29/19 10:15am]

.

Probally I'll be the only one, but I'm not disappointed. I prefer to have a cool album to listen instead a pile of song.

tmcjb said:

Found the track times. Prepare to be disappointed.

https://www.rhino.com/pro...ginals#1cd

1. Sex Shooter 3.06

2. Jungle Love 3.04

3. Manic Monday 2.51

4. Noon Rendezvous 3.00

5. Make-Up 2.27

6. 100 MPH 3.31

7. You're My Love 4.24

8. Holly Rock 6.39

9. Baby, You're a Trip 5.52

10. The Glamorous Life 4.12

11. Gigolos Get Lonely Too 4.41

12. Love... Thy Will Be Done 4.09

13. Dear Michaelangelo 5.22

14. Wouldn't You Love to Love Me? 5.57

15. Nothing Compares 2 U 4.39

Looks like they're all edits. Sex Shooter and Jungle Love are both shorter than the final released versions.

[Edited 4/29/19 10:15am]

I haven't checked in Duane's book but I believe that those versions are the original recordings with Prince vocals, and were extended after Morris/Apples recorded their vocals. At some point there's nothing to do about this until you start fucking it up like they did with NC2U by adding additional elements from the final version to the original recording. I actually hope with all my heart that NC2U will be the real Prince mix instead of the atrocious shit we've been given last year.

fabriziovenerandi said:

tmcjb said:

Found the track times. Prepare to be disappointed.

https://www.rhino.com/pro...ginals#1cd

1. Sex Shooter 3.06

2. Jungle Love 3.04

3. Manic Monday 2.51

4. Noon Rendezvous 3.00

5. Make-Up 2.27

6. 100 MPH 3.31

7. You're My Love 4.24

8. Holly Rock 6.39

9. Baby, You're a Trip 5.52

10. The Glamorous Life 4.12

11. Gigolos Get Lonely Too 4.41

12. Love... Thy Will Be Done 4.09

13. Dear Michaelangelo 5.22

14. Wouldn't You Love to Love Me? 5.57

15. Nothing Compares 2 U 4.39

Looks like they're all edits. Sex Shooter and Jungle Love are both shorter than the final released versions.

[Edited 4/29/19 10:15am]

.

Probally I'll be the only one, but I'm not disappointed. I prefer to have a cool album to listen instead a pile of song.

The problem is that this sequencing appears to be just that: a pile of songs. It could have been so much better.

databank said:

Kares said:

.

I'm not 100% sure but that's my understanding of it. Clinton might have had a different contract – one that says "we finance all your recording sessions therefore every tape of every note you record belongs to us". Prince's contracts gave him the freedom to record whenever and whatever he wanted, he even recorded at home, and afaik only the final mixes he delivered to Warners and only those that were accepted by Warners for release became WB-property.

According to Alan Leeds this was not the case. He may be wrong but if anyone would have known it's him, and he once stated that anything Prince recorded between 1977 and 1996 belonged to them, including live shows.

If so, Prince actually took a chance releasing material such as CB, the Rave track and lots of the NPGMC material. Hell, he even rereleased things WB definitely owned (Interactive and Good Love on CB, Horny Pony and Thieves Extended on NPGMC).

Remarkably, Prince seemed quite decided to open the vault between 1998 and 2001, with all the aforementioned releases and announcements such as CBII, Roadhouse Garden, All My Dreams or the sampler series and all of a sudden: blam! Not. A. Single. WB. Era. Release. Anymore.

Ever.

It's circumstancial evidence at best, I realize that, but I wouldn't be surprised that after seeing him rerelease some WB tracks on NPGMC, WB had their lawyers send P a cease and desist and that was the end of it. They probably let it go with CB and all at first because their image had suffered enough with the 3 years-long wars they'd had with him, and they just wanted to put an end to this and suing him would have started it all over again, but I think at some point they realized they had to do something because he was testing their limits.

.
The way I see it: 'Crystal Ball' was a pretty big project for Prince so I don't think Warners would've just turned a blind eye if that would've been something they could sue for. It wasn't just one song on Bellmark Records that they hoped would die in obscurity. And as you say, there were plenty of other instances of Prince releasing stuff that was recorded before 1996.
But another aspect of the story is that Warners probably didn't even know about many of Prince's unreleased songs, he only shared with them what he wanted.
.
I know Alan Leeds said that everything belonged to Warners between '77 and '96, but I think it's an argument that could occupy a couple of legal teams for months or years in court, should it come to that. Because Prince's case is different from those artists' who were simply given studio time by their label who financed everything. When you record in your home day and night, in your own studio, it's not as simple for your label to put their hands on everything you create.
They would surely have the right of first refusal, but when you have a 5-year contract with them for let's say 5 albums, and in that period you record 50 albums in your home, on your own budget, there would definitely be a big argument over who owns what.
.

Kares said:

databank said:

According to Alan Leeds this was not the case. He may be wrong but if anyone would have known it's him, and he once stated that anything Prince recorded between 1977 and 1996 belonged to them, including live shows.

If so, Prince actually took a chance releasing material such as CB, the Rave track and lots of the NPGMC material. Hell, he even rereleased things WB definitely owned (Interactive and Good Love on CB, Horny Pony and Thieves Extended on NPGMC).

Remarkably, Prince seemed quite decided to open the vault between 1998 and 2001, with all the aforementioned releases and announcements such as CBII, Roadhouse Garden, All My Dreams or the sampler series and all of a sudden: blam! Not. A. Single. WB. Era. Release. Anymore.

Ever.

It's circumstancial evidence at best, I realize that, but I wouldn't be surprised that after seeing him rerelease some WB tracks on NPGMC, WB had their lawyers send P a cease and desist and that was the end of it. They probably let it go with CB and all at first because their image had suffered enough with the 3 years-long wars they'd had with him, and they just wanted to put an end to this and suing him would have started it all over again, but I think at some point they realized they had to do something because he was testing their limits.

.
The way I see it: 'Crystal Ball' was a pretty big project for Prince so I don't think Warners would've just turned a blind eye if that would've been something they could sue for. It wasn't just one song on Bellmark Records that they hoped would die in obscurity. And as you say, there were plenty of other instances of Prince releasing stuff that was recorded before 1996.
But another aspect of the story is that Warners probably didn't even know about many of Prince's unreleased songs, he only shared with them what he wanted.
.
I know Alan Leeds said that everything belonged to Warners between '77 and '96, but I think it's an argument that could occupy a couple of legal teams for months or years in court, should it come to that. Because Prince's case is different from those artists' who were simply given studio time by their label who financed everything. When you record in your home day and night, in your own studio, it's not as simple for your label to put their hands on everything you create.
They would surely have the right of first refusal, but when you have a 5-year contract with them for let's say 5 albums, and in that period you record 50 albums in your home, on your own budget, there would definitely be a big argument over who owns what.
.

I don't know anymore than I've said so IDK. Honestly back in 98 no one but Prince fans and the press really knew about CB, it was a very low profile release, so I wouldn't call it a big project, not big enough for WB to bother IMHO, and the fact is that there were several WB songs on it, some remixed and some nearly as such, that definitely called for WB suing.

So IDK, all I can hope is that people like Duane will eventually interviewx the right people and shed light on what really happened and what P's contract really meant in terms of ownership.

Regardless and to go back to the original topic, I don't know of a case where, say, an artist took their lead vocals and some elements of a hit song and had it remixed and released by another label. This seems to suggest that any sound included in a master is legally considered part of said master, mpultitracks or not. But again I'm just speculating. I'm sure there are music lawyers who know and could tell us. Thing is the Dance Electric situation was a first to me, I'm not aware of any such situations happening before.