bsprout said:

Wow. I can still remember hearing this for the first time when it came out; it blew me away. There was nothing remotely similar on the radio at the time. I loved it instantly.

Always loved it. Thanks Latin!

pinkcashmere23 said:

Always loved it. Thanks Latin!

and it should have won the Grammy for Album of the Year in 1988. By the way, is that Alan Leeds sitting next to Prince?

Those were the days when on release day I would wait outside a record shop until it opened.

I didn't care being late for school - that wasn't important!!!!

pinkcashmere23 said:

i was never crazy about it but gotta respect it, it's a big piece of the 80's work, the single that is. I still remember hearing it when i lived with a preacher's family, the wife said it sounded like the temptations, i didn't know enough then to know she was right, it sounded exactly like the tempts pschedelic stuff with the melody line and lyrics. As with many prince albums, i liked several non-single songs on the album much more.

Goddess4Real said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

Always loved it. Thanks Latin!

and it should have won the Grammy for Album of the Year in 1988. By the way, is that Alan Leeds sitting next to Prince?

Yes, I would say.

it was a better album than the joshua tree to me, or any other album that year.

Ramzoo said:

Goddess4Real said:

and it should have won the Grammy for Album of the Year in 1988. By the way, is that Alan Leeds sitting next to Prince?

Yes, I would say.

tump said:

I get chills just reading the lyrics. But I think the lyrics fall a bit flat at the Nate part.

.

To me, the part about Nate is the best part. Most of the song is trying to sound "deep", yet his conclusions are almost all wrong or without thinking things through... That song, more than most of his other songs made him sound dumb and uninformed.

.

Shame really, as the song is great. Good thing that for me lyrics aren't as important.

mediumdry said:

tump said:

I get chills just reading the lyrics. But I think the lyrics fall a bit flat at the Nate part.

.

To me, the part about Nate is the best part. Most of the song is trying to sound "deep", yet his conclusions are almost all wrong or without thinking things through... That song, more than most of his other songs made him sound dumb and uninformed.

.

Shame really, as the song is great. Good thing that for me lyrics aren't as important.

never really analyzed the lyrics that much as it wasn't one of my favorites, what i did like was the rubbery synth bass and it's variations, and the chords.what part makes him sound uninformed? I remember someone from creem saying he was an idiot for saying ronald reagan was a president with balls, many of his stances were ironic ones.

mediumdry said:

tump said:

I get chills just reading the lyrics. But I think the lyrics fall a bit flat at the Nate part.

.

To me, the part about Nate is the best part. Most of the song is trying to sound "deep", yet his conclusions are almost all wrong or without thinking things through... That song, more than most of his other songs made him sound dumb and uninformed.

.

Shame really, as the song is great. Good thing that for me lyrics aren't as important.

What part of the lyrics were "dumb and uninformed"?? Here's the breakdown:

*

In France, a skinny man died of a big disease with a little name (AIDS)
By chance his girlfriend came across a needle and soon she did the same

^^ talking about the AIDS crisis - WAY before mass media was focusing on it

*
At home there are seventeen-year-old boys and their idea of fun
Is being in a gang called 'The Disciples'
High on crack and totin' a machine gun

^^ talking about the rising gang violence in the US, especially in LA - major problem

*

Hurricane Annie ripped the ceiling of a church and killed everyone inside
You turn on the telly and every other story is tellin' you somebody died

^^ talking about the negative focus of the news media - very true and still true today

*
A sister killed her baby 'cause she couldn't afford to feed it
And yet we're sending people to the moon

^^ talking about the government spending billions on NASA but not providing viable solutions for the poor and people going hungry

*
In September, my cousin tried reefer for the very first time
Now he's doing horse, it's June, unh

^^ talking about the heroine epidemic back then - way ahead of his time as it's now one of the leading causes of death

*

It's silly, no?
When a rocket ship explodes and everybody still wants to fly
But some say a man ain't happy unless a man truly dies

^^talking about the Space Shuttle Challenger explosion which had just happened - killing all passengers including a Teacher, and the program continuing

*

Baby make a speech, Star Wars fly
Neighbors just shine it on
But if a night falls and a bomb falls
Will anybody see the dawn?

^^talking about the dangers of politics and nuclear warfare

*

Sign o' the times mess with your mind
Hurry before it's too late
Let's fall in love, get married, have a baby
We'll call him Nate
If it's a boy

^^I think this is his sarcastic way of saying most people just carry on with life and ignore the bigger problems

i wasn't going to argue with them, all some people need to call something dumb is that it doesn't fit their ideas and then they go all out, happens all the time. I said my piece, that many songs on the album are much better, his choice of singles wasn't always good. Catchier songs like strange relationship,i could never take the place, u got the look was released but even as good as that was, it wasn't ever a fave from the album.

violetcrush said:

mediumdry said:

.

To me, the part about Nate is the best part. Most of the song is trying to sound "deep", yet his conclusions are almost all wrong or without thinking things through... That song, more than most of his other songs made him sound dumb and uninformed.

.

Shame really, as the song is great. Good thing that for me lyrics aren't as important.

What part of the lyrics were "dumb and uninformed"?? Here's the breakdown:

*

In France, a skinny man died of a big disease with a little name (AIDS)
By chance his girlfriend came across a needle and soon she did the same

^^ talking about the AIDS crisis - WAY before mass media was focusing on it

*
At home there are seventeen-year-old boys and their idea of fun
Is being in a gang called 'The Disciples'
High on crack and totin' a machine gun

^^ talking about the rising gang violence in the US, especially in LA - major problem

*

Hurricane Annie ripped the ceiling of a church and killed everyone inside
You turn on the telly and every other story is tellin' you somebody died

^^ talking about the negative focus of the news media - very true and still true today

*
A sister killed her baby 'cause she couldn't afford to feed it
And yet we're sending people to the moon

^^ talking about the government spending billions on NASA but not providing viable solutions for the poor and people going hungry

*
In September, my cousin tried reefer for the very first time
Now he's doing horse, it's June, unh

^^ talking about the heroine epidemic back then - way ahead of his time as it's now one of the leading causes of death

*

It's silly, no?
When a rocket ship explodes and everybody still wants to fly
But some say a man ain't happy unless a man truly dies

^^talking about the Space Shuttle Challenger explosion which had just happened - killing all passengers including a Teacher, and the program continuing

*

Baby make a speech, Star Wars fly
Neighbors just shine it on
But if a night falls and a bomb falls
Will anybody see the dawn?

^^talking about the dangers of politics and nuclear warfare

*

Sign o' the times mess with your mind
Hurry before it's too late
Let's fall in love, get married, have a baby
We'll call him Nate
If it's a boy

^^I think this is his sarcastic way of saying most people just carry on with life and ignore the bigger problems

PeteSilas said:

i wasn't going to argue with them, all some people need to call something dumb is that it doesn't fit their ideas and then they go all out, happens all the time. I said my piece, that many songs on the album are much better, his choice of singles wasn't always good. Catchier songs like strange relationship,i could never take the place, u got the look was released but even as good as that was, it wasn't ever a fave from the album.

violetcrush said:

What part of the lyrics were "dumb and uninformed"?? Here's the breakdown:

*

In France, a skinny man died of a big disease with a little name (AIDS)
By chance his girlfriend came across a needle and soon she did the same

^^ talking about the AIDS crisis - WAY before mass media was focusing on it

*
At home there are seventeen-year-old boys and their idea of fun
Is being in a gang called 'The Disciples'
High on crack and totin' a machine gun

^^ talking about the rising gang violence in the US, especially in LA - major problem

*

Hurricane Annie ripped the ceiling of a church and killed everyone inside
You turn on the telly and every other story is tellin' you somebody died

^^ talking about the negative focus of the news media - very true and still true today

*
A sister killed her baby 'cause she couldn't afford to feed it
And yet we're sending people to the moon

^^ talking about the government spending billions on NASA but not providing viable solutions for the poor and people going hungry

*
In September, my cousin tried reefer for the very first time
Now he's doing horse, it's June, unh

^^ talking about the heroine epidemic back then - way ahead of his time as it's now one of the leading causes of death

*

It's silly, no?
When a rocket ship explodes and everybody still wants to fly
But some say a man ain't happy unless a man truly dies

^^talking about the Space Shuttle Challenger explosion which had just happened - killing all passengers including a Teacher, and the program continuing

*

Baby make a speech, Star Wars fly
Neighbors just shine it on
But if a night falls and a bomb falls
Will anybody see the dawn?

^^talking about the dangers of politics and nuclear warfare

*

Sign o' the times mess with your mind
Hurry before it's too late
Let's fall in love, get married, have a baby
We'll call him Nate
If it's a boy

^^I think this is his sarcastic way of saying most people just carry on with life and ignore the bigger problems

I think this song was very innovative for the time - in terms of the sparse instrumental with the "rap"-like vocal which was focused on important issues/events of the day. Chuck D said it was a big influence on him when he was getting into rapping. Even the video was completely unique for the time compared to how most music videos were styled on MTV then. Prince was still cutting edge at this point - it's just that the mainstream pop audience didn't get it. Same with many of the other songs on that album - IIWYGF, Dorothy Parker, Strange Relationship, etc.

*

All that being said, U2's Joshua Tree, which beat out SOTT, was and still is one of my favorites. Not a bad song on that album. And I got to see them on that tour. SOOOOO good!!!

violetcrush said:

mediumdry said:

.

To me, the part about Nate is the best part. Most of the song is trying to sound "deep", yet his conclusions are almost all wrong or without thinking things through... That song, more than most of his other songs made him sound dumb and uninformed.

.

Shame really, as the song is great. Good thing that for me lyrics aren't as important.

What part of the lyrics were "dumb and uninformed"?? Here's the breakdown:

*

In France, a skinny man died of a big disease with a little name (AIDS)
By chance his girlfriend came across a needle and soon she did the same

^^ talking about the AIDS crisis - WAY before mass media was focusing on it

.

So far so good. Most early HIV and AIDS cases were in the US though. Not sure why "France" all of a sudden. But could be for melody.

.

violetcrush said:

*
At home there are seventeen-year-old boys and their idea of fun
Is being in a gang called 'The Disciples'
High on crack and totin' a machine gun

^^ talking about the rising gang violence in the US, especially in LA - major problem

.

Valid point. Just pointing out an issue, not going into causes or possible solutions...

.

violetcrush said:

*

Hurricane Annie ripped the ceiling of a church and killed everyone inside
You turn on the telly and every other story is tellin' you somebody died

^^ talking about the negative focus of the news media - very true and still true today

.

News is a business. It talks about what sells. More people gather around an accident than around business as usual or even a new baby.

.

violetcrush said:

*
A sister killed her baby 'cause she couldn't afford to feed it
And yet we're sending people to the moon

^^ talking about the government spending billions on NASA but not providing viable solutions for the poor and people going hungry

.

I hope he's talking about abortion, which is not killing a baby. Anyone saying that has an agenda. And yes, there is a real problem in the US with poverty, but NASA is not one of the reasons. If anything, space has a relatively good cost/benefit ratio, next to the knowledge we get. Other parts of the military are not... so, why mention both? NASA is on the plus side of the equation, not on the useless cost side..

.

violetcrush said:

*
In September, my cousin tried reefer for the very first time
Now he's doing horse, it's June, unh

^^ talking about the heroine epidemic back then - way ahead of his time as it's now one of the leading causes of death

.

Reefer, Mary-Jane, however you want to call it, is not a gateway drug. Never has been. That's an outright lie told by people with an agenda, mostly right wing holier than thou types. It's misinformation. And yes, narcotic use is a definite problem, one that "the war on drugs" has made much, much worse.

.

violetcrush said:

*

It's silly, no?
When a rocket ship explodes and everybody still wants to fly
But some say a man ain't happy unless a man truly dies

^^talking about the Space Shuttle Challenger explosion which had just happened - killing all passengers including a Teacher, and the program continuing

*

.

Rockets and airplanes are very different technologies. Flying is one of the safest (if you discount the pollution part) forms of travel. I don't have the numbers of rocket flights with regards to safety/deaths, but they have nothing to do with eachother other than they both go through the air. It's basically saying: "the combustion engine in cars is unsafe, why is everyone still riding bicycles?"

.

violetcrush said:

Baby make a speech, Star Wars fly
Neighbors just shine it on
But if a night falls and a bomb falls
Will anybody see the dawn?

^^talking about the dangers of politics and nuclear warfare

*

.

These lines make sense to you??

.

violetcrush said:

Sign o' the times mess with your mind
Hurry before it's too late
Let's fall in love, get married, have a baby
We'll call him Nate
If it's a boy

^^I think this is his sarcastic way of saying most people just carry on with life and ignore the bigger problems

.

I love this part, he gets back to what really matters. At least, that's what it means to me. The bigger problems are there.. and we can work on them, but love and children is what makes your live worth living.

.

Anyway, the song is touching on a number of important points, but quite often it is nonsensical, sometimes confused (putting things together that don't have any logical relation), sometimes flat out wrong.

.

All packaged in an exquisite, compelling arrangement. One of his stronger songs. But he didn't come across well if he wanted to appear deep, unfortunately.

violetcrush said:

jdcxc said:

violetcrush said:

What part of the lyrics were "dumb and uninformed"?? Here's the breakdown:

*

In France, a skinny man died of a big disease with a little name (AIDS)
By chance his girlfriend came across a needle and soon she did the same

^^ talking about the AIDS crisis - WAY before mass media was focusing on it

*
At home there are seventeen-year-old boys and their idea of fun
Is being in a gang called 'The Disciples'
High on crack and totin' a machine gun

^^ talking about the rising gang violence in the US, especially in LA - major problem

*

Hurricane Annie ripped the ceiling of a church and killed everyone inside
You turn on the telly and every other story is tellin' you somebody died

^^ talking about the negative focus of the news media - very true and still true today

*
A sister killed her baby 'cause she couldn't afford to feed it
And yet we're sending people to the moon

^^ talking about the government spending billions on NASA but not providing viable solutions for the poor and people going hungry

*
In September, my cousin tried reefer for the very first time
Now he's doing horse, it's June, unh

^^ talking about the heroine epidemic back then - way ahead of his time as it's now one of the leading causes of death

*

It's silly, no?
When a rocket ship explodes and everybody still wants to fly
But some say a man ain't happy unless a man truly dies

^^talking about the Space Shuttle Challenger explosion which had just happened - killing all passengers including a Teacher, and the program continuing

*

Baby make a speech, Star Wars fly
Neighbors just shine it on
But if a night falls and a bomb falls
Will anybody see the dawn?

^^talking about the dangers of politics and nuclear warfare

*

Sign o' the times mess with your mind
Hurry before it's too late
Let's fall in love, get married, have a baby
We'll call him Nate
If it's a boy

^^I think this is his sarcastic way of saying most people just carry on with life and ignore the bigger problems

Great Analysis. This song has so many interesting tidbits. “Baby” was a nickname for Reagan and of course “Star Wars” was his $200 billion dollar defense boondoggle.

Thanks! Yes, very true with regard to the Reagan bits. I think Prince was a sponge when it came to soaking up the issues/news of the day. Yes, he liked the sex and trivial stuff too, but he paid attention to the bigger aspects of life. His songs show that.

kingricefan said:

bsprout said:

Wow. I can still remember hearing this for the first time when it came out; it blew me away. There was nothing remotely similar on the radio at the time. I loved it instantly.

Completely agree! This is my all time fav Prince album. I've loved it for over 30 years. It's a masterpiece IMO.

jdcxc said:

“Baby” was a nickname for Reagan

.

I've lived through that unfortunate era and I've never heard the nickname "baby" for Reagan. It's also not in his wikipedia page or on the wikipedia page for nicknames for US presidents. Can you find any reference for "baby" being a nickname for Ronald Reagan?

.

I'm well aware of his enthousiasm for the "defense shield" that was called star wars. Even if baby is RR though, that combination of sentences still doesn't make much sense, as star wars was supposed to protect against bombs/missiles.

.

Apocalyptic thinking was popular though, in the 80's. 1999 and quite a few other Prince songs are similar in that regard.

mediumdry said:

violetcrush said:

As a lifelong Prince fan, I have never considered him an aggressive political activist through his music. He was always just general enough in his political songs to say what he wanted to say in a very non-aggressive manner....and I liked it that way. He took a significantly more aggressive stance regarding human sexuality than he did politics.

DarkKnight1 said:

As a lifelong Prince fan, I have never considered him an aggressive political activist through his music. He was always just general enough in his political songs to say what he wanted to say in a very non-aggressive manner....and I liked it that way. He took a significantly more aggressive stance regarding human sexuality than he did politics.

I always thought it was ironic how he had what i just called a "conserative streak" supporting reagan in interviews, giving him a shoutout and saying he didn't want him to get shot before he got to meet him and writing songs like Free. That conservative streak only got more and more dominant as he got older but it was always there.

nobody called reagan baby, what kind of shit is that? what planet was he called baby on? Not here, maybe where you're from. and my first thought was whoever objected to this song must be a pothead because the reefer line is enough to make them go nuts.

jdcxc said:

violetcrush said:

What part of the lyrics were "dumb and uninformed"?? Here's the breakdown:

*

In France, a skinny man died of a big disease with a little name (AIDS)
By chance his girlfriend came across a needle and soon she did the same

^^ talking about the AIDS crisis - WAY before mass media was focusing on it

*
At home there are seventeen-year-old boys and their idea of fun
Is being in a gang called 'The Disciples'
High on crack and totin' a machine gun

^^ talking about the rising gang violence in the US, especially in LA - major problem

*

Hurricane Annie ripped the ceiling of a church and killed everyone inside
You turn on the telly and every other story is tellin' you somebody died

^^ talking about the negative focus of the news media - very true and still true today

*
A sister killed her baby 'cause she couldn't afford to feed it
And yet we're sending people to the moon

^^ talking about the government spending billions on NASA but not providing viable solutions for the poor and people going hungry

*
In September, my cousin tried reefer for the very first time
Now he's doing horse, it's June, unh

^^ talking about the heroine epidemic back then - way ahead of his time as it's now one of the leading causes of death

*

It's silly, no?
When a rocket ship explodes and everybody still wants to fly
But some say a man ain't happy unless a man truly dies

^^talking about the Space Shuttle Challenger explosion which had just happened - killing all passengers including a Teacher, and the program continuing

*

Baby make a speech, Star Wars fly
Neighbors just shine it on
But if a night falls and a bomb falls
Will anybody see the dawn?

^^talking about the dangers of politics and nuclear warfare

*

Sign o' the times mess with your mind
Hurry before it's too late
Let's fall in love, get married, have a baby
We'll call him Nate
If it's a boy

^^I think this is his sarcastic way of saying most people just carry on with life and ignore the bigger problems

Great Analysis. This song has so many interesting tidbits. “Baby” was a nickname for Reagan and of course “Star Wars” was his $200 billion dollar defense boondoggle.

jdcxc said: