herb4 said:

I never thought the performance was disrespectful nor in bad taste.

He's doing freaking CLAPTON'S part in the song. Better bring your a-game there. The song needed to take off right when it did. Prince opened a LOT of eyes that night.

Part of the oddity of the performance, for me, is knowing that this is not in any way shape or form Prince's greatest moment on the guitar - yet it is now becoming known for just that. It did, however, as you say, open a few eyes. An ex-colleague of mine (massive Dylan fan) who had been dismissive of Prince gained a new respect for him through this performance.

[Edited 3/23/19 5:32am]

SimonCharles said:

herb4 said:

I never thought the performance was disrespectful nor in bad taste.

He's doing freaking CLAPTON'S part in the song. Better bring your a-game there. The song needed to take off right when it did. Prince opened a LOT of eyes that night.

Part of the oddity of the performance, for me, is knowing that this is not in any way shape or form Prince's greatest moment on the guitar - yet it is now becoming known for just that. It did, however, as you say, open a few eyes. An ex-colleague of mine (massive Dylan fan) who had been dismissive of Prince gained a new respect for him through this performance.

[Edited 3/23/19 5:32am]

Yeah, as fans WE knew that our man could melt faces and wreck shit but a lot of people who only know the hits really didn't. Super Bowl took a lot of people by surprise too.

herb4 said:

SimonCharles said:

Part of the oddity of the performance, for me, is knowing that this is not in any way shape or form Prince's greatest moment on the guitar - yet it is now becoming known for just that. It did, however, as you say, open a few eyes. An ex-colleague of mine (massive Dylan fan) who had been dismissive of Prince gained a new respect for him through this performance.

[Edited 3/23/19 5:32am]

Yeah, as fans WE knew that our man could melt faces and wreck shit but a lot of people who only know the hits really didn't. Super Bowl took a lot of people by surprise too.

True - and *whispers* I was quite shocked and surprised by his choices on that night too...and not in a pleasantly surprised fashion.

purplefam99 said:

When I watch the video it seems as though they are keeping Prince in shadow on purpose, to build mystique I assume, The camera never really shows him in stage light. So by doing that Seems they wanted him to be a highlight, so if that is the case He behaved like a highlight and gave us highlight antics. Why do you think they had him in shadow?? What message was that to convey? Something I noticed and thought about while watching. Is the interpretation different on the full length version someone mentioned having?

I have no doubt that Prince orchestrated that setup. He already knew exactly when he was going to do his solo, and he knew it would have a much bigger affect if he suddenly came into the spotlight at that point. Remember, this man controlled his every moment and movement on stages throughout his career. No way he was going to let someone else tell him where to stand, when to play, etc.

*

I think his walking off stage was his "take that all you haters" or an "in your face" move toward all of the critics and former fans who had stated or written that he "used to be great" or that he was no longer capable of making good music, etc. etc. There was a lot of that during the late 90's and early 2000's. He took a big hit with the RUTJF album, and TRC certainly was not considered a mainstream success. As Peggyon said, he was in process of trying to get back into the "mainstream" music scene (Musicology, LA scene, then the Superbowl), so this performance was another attention-getter for him - and it worked....VERY well.

violetcrush said:

purplefam99 said:

When I watch the video it seems as though they are keeping Prince in shadow on purpose, to build mystique I assume, The camera never really shows him in stage light. So by doing that Seems they wanted him to be a highlight, so if that is the case He behaved like a highlight and gave us highlight antics. Why do you think they had him in shadow?? What message was that to convey? Something I noticed and thought about while watching. Is the interpretation different on the full length version someone mentioned having?

I have no doubt that Prince orchestrated that setup. He already knew exactly when he was going to do his solo, and he knew it would have a much bigger affect if he suddenly came into the spotlight at that point. Remember, this man controlled his every moment and movement on stages throughout his career. No way he was going to let someone else tell him where to stand, when to play, etc.

*

I think his walking off stage was his "take that all you haters" or an "in your face" move toward all of the critics and former fans who had stated or written that he "used to be great" or that he was no longer capable of making good music, etc. etc. There was a lot of that during the late 90's and early 2000's. He took a big hit with the RUTJF album, and TRC certainly was not considered a mainstream success. As Peggyon said, he was in process of trying to get back into the "mainstream" music scene (Musicology, LA scene, then the Superbowl), so this performance was another attention-getter for him - and it worked....VERY well.

That has always been my take on his positioning at the start of the song, too, yes.

*

The performance certainly got attention - and this isn't a criticism of his behaviour. It is, as I've mentioned, more a reflection on me and my revisionism of this moment given his death, I suppose. I simply think it's a shame that there wasn't a moment where all the performers acknowledged the performance. Aside from Tom Petty, I would have loved to see Jeff Lynne's beaming smile next to Prince's too.

SimonCharles said:

herb4 said:

Yeah, as fans WE knew that our man could melt faces and wreck shit but a lot of people who only know the hits really didn't. Super Bowl took a lot of people by surprise too.

True - and *whispers* I was quite shocked and surprised by his choices on that night too...and not in a pleasantly surprised fashion.

i was mixed on the set list myself but he pulled it off.

After it was over (and before it started) I was seriously wondering what songs he could pull out that would work. A hits set would have sucked and ...what do you pull out? U Got the Look? Raspberry Beret? Gett Off? Diamonds and Pearls? LRC?

An all hits set would have made him come off as tired and stale. The way he switched everything up while still leaning on Purple Rain songs (which he almost had to) was rather perfect and most folks rank the performance amongst the top 5 all time halftime shows. Even the promo/commercial made fun the hundreds of terrible ways it might have wound up being handled.

To tie it back into the thread, yeah, it's buts that as good as the R&RHOF and the Super Bowl shows really were, we've all seen and heard better and understand what the man was capable of on any given night. Or day.

Truth be told, the average music listening person remians astonishingly ignorant of the depth of this man's talent. A LOT of that is due to Prince himself and the way he played the game though - always ducking in and out of the spotlight and often burying his genious in relative obscurity. In the long term, I think this tendency worked to his overall benefit and in many ways cemented his longevity in ways that escaped Madonna, MJ, Bowie and a TON of really talented bands and musicians who were considered his peers in the mid 80's.

Overall, I think he mostly did it the right way, despite all the weirdness (which to me was a HUGE part of the fun and something that I absolutely LOVED). The system just wasn't set up for his unique brand of skills, his personality and his intense singular vision. He was able to be the world's most famous underground artist and develop an absolutely fanatcial fan base for DECADES who would follow him t the ends of the earth in a way that rivals bands like the Grateful Dead, Rush, and songwriters like Dylan and Springsteen.

He outlasted almost all of them when you really sit down and tally up the scorecard and I can't think of ONE MUSCICAN who was so good at so many different things and accomplished so much. He made movies, most of them bad but he MADE THEM. He wasn't the BEST dancer, the BEST piano player or even the BEST guitar player or the BEST song writer but I'm fuck all if I can think of one person so GOOD at all those things AT THE SAME TIME.

The R&RHoF solo was amazing and I loved it but Prince could do that any time he wanted and it's almost a shame that he had to die before the world realized it. WORSE, they still obsess over Purple Rain and think that's all he did. A lot of people anyway.


TL/DR: The solo was legendary and music lovers know it. Casual fans were blown away. Haters were forced to accept sheer brilliance and the stubborn nit pick his so called arrogance. Lost in it all was his spectacular performance before that.

I am playing Devil's Advocate about that night with Tom Petty et al. as I am ambivalent.

What if the circumstances were flipped? Doing this exercise helps me clarify my feelings.

-Let's say Prince and the NPG were playing instead of Tom Petty/Jeff Lynne @ TRRHOF?

-Let's say they (Prince/NPG) were planning to play a really meaningful song about a deceased person dear to them. (who was also being inducted); and the deceased wife and son were at the ceremony.

-Let's say the producer of the RRHOF asked another inductee (brilliant) to solo on this song?

-Let's Prince was ambivalent about this request?

-Let's say this soloist confused band-leader Prince during the performance as this is not how he played in practice? (Longer, more flamboyantly?)

-Let's say the soloist threw the guitar up in the air at the end and left the stage?

Wondering how Prince would have felt about any of this?

[Edited 3/24/19 8:40am]

peggyon said:

I am playing Devil's Advocate about that night with Tom Petty et al. as I am ambivalent.

What if the circumstances were flipped? Doing this exercise helps me clarify my feelings.

-Let's say Prince and the NPG were playing instead of Tom Petty/Jeff Lynne @ TRRHOF?

-Let's say they (Prince/NPG) were planning to play a really meaningful song about a deceased person dear to them. (who was also being inducted); and the deceased wife and son were at the ceremony.

-Let's say the producer of the RRHOF asked another inductee (brilliant) to solo on this song?

-Let's Prince was ambivalent about this request?

-Let's say this soloist confused band-leader Prince during the performance as this is not how he played in practice? (Longer, more flamboyantly?)

-Let's say the soloist threw the guitar up in the air at the end and left the stage?

Wondering how Prince would have felt about any of this?

[Edited 3/24/19 8:40am]

Who would play the guy upstaging Prince in this scenario?

There were many equally talented guitar shredders to choose from during that time period.

IMO it was not the time or the place to 'upstage' anyone. It was a tribute for George. I wonder how this display affected George's wife?

i think we have been somewhat blinded by Prince's virtuosity (I get chills when I watch the performance), but I feel his behavior that night was insensitive to say the least.

He would not have stood for that behavior from a soloist.

herb4 said:

peggyon said:

I am playing Devil's Advocate about that night with Tom Petty et al. as I am ambivalent.

What if the circumstances were flipped? Doing this exercise helps me clarify my feelings.

-Let's say Prince and the NPG were playing instead of Tom Petty/Jeff Lynne @ TRRHOF?

-Let's say they (Prince/NPG) were planning to play a really meaningful song about a deceased person dear to them. (who was also being inducted); and the deceased wife and son were at the ceremony.

-Let's say the producer of the RRHOF asked another inductee (brilliant) to solo on this song?

-Let's Prince was ambivalent about this request?

-Let's say this soloist confused band-leader Prince during the performance as this is not how he played in practice? (Longer, more flamboyantly?)

-Let's say the soloist threw the guitar up in the air at the end and left the stage?

Wondering how Prince would have felt about any of this?

[Edited 3/24/19 8:40am]

Who would play the guy upstaging Prince in this scenario?

[Edited 3/24/19 10:22am]

herb4 said:

SimonCharles said:

True - and *whispers* I was quite shocked and surprised by his choices on that night too...and not in a pleasantly surprised fashion.

i was mixed on the set list myself but he pulled it off.

After it was over (and before it started) I was seriously wondering what songs he could pull out that would work. A hits set would have sucked and ...what do you pull out? U Got the Look? Raspberry Beret? Gett Off? Diamonds and Pearls? LRC?

An all hits set would have made him come off as tired and stale. The way he switched everything up while still leaning on Purple Rain songs (which he almost had to) was rather perfect and most folks rank the performance amongst the top 5 all time halftime shows. Even the promo/commercial made fun the hundreds of terrible ways it might have wound up being handled.

To tie it back into the thread, yeah, it's buts that as good as the R&RHOF and the Super Bowl shows really were, we've all seen and heard better and understand what the man was capable of on any given night. Or day.

Truth be told, the average music listening person remians astonishingly ignorant of the depth of this man's talent. A LOT of that is due to Prince himself and the way he played the game though - always ducking in and out of the spotlight and often burying his genious in relative obscurity. In the long term, I think this tendency worked to his overall benefit and in many ways cemented his longevity in ways that escaped Madonna, MJ, Bowie and a TON of really talented bands and musicians who were considered his peers in the mid 80's.

Overall, I think he mostly did it the right way, despite all the weirdness (which to me was a HUGE part of the fun and something that I absolutely LOVED). The system just wasn't set up for his unique brand of skills, his personality and his intense singular vision. He was able to be the world's most famous underground artist and develop an absolutely fanatcial fan base for DECADES who would follow him t the ends of the earth in a way that rivals bands like the Grateful Dead, Rush, and songwriters like Dylan and Springsteen.

He outlasted almost all of them when you really sit down and tally up the scorecard and I can't think of ONE MUSCICAN who was so good at so many different things and accomplished so much. He made movies, most of them bad but he MADE THEM. He wasn't the BEST dancer, the BEST piano player or even the BEST guitar player or the BEST song writer but I'm fuck all if I can think of one person so GOOD at all those things AT THE SAME TIME.

The R&RHoF solo was amazing and I loved it but Prince could do that any time he wanted and it's almost a shame that he had to die before the world realized it. WORSE, they still obsess over Purple Rain and think that's all he did. A lot of people anyway.


TL/DR: The solo was legendary and music lovers know it. Casual fans were blown away. Haters were forced to accept sheer brilliance and the stubborn nit pick his so called arrogance. Lost in it all was his spectacular performance before that.

Nicely argued. I guess the press conference performance gave a hint, too. I was surprised it was so cover heavy - I could have seen a nod to some of his more contemporary music working but who in the hell am I to argue. It was a tremendous performance.

*

As to your other comments - all pretty much spot on. Thanks for taking the time to contribute.

herb4 said:

peggyon said:

I am playing Devil's Advocate about that night with Tom Petty et al. as I am ambivalent.

What if the circumstances were flipped? Doing this exercise helps me clarify my feelings.

-Let's say Prince and the NPG were playing instead of Tom Petty/Jeff Lynne @ TRRHOF?

-Let's say they (Prince/NPG) were planning to play a really meaningful song about a deceased person dear to them. (who was also being inducted); and the deceased wife and son were at the ceremony.

-Let's say the producer of the RRHOF asked another inductee (brilliant) to solo on this song?

-Let's Prince was ambivalent about this request?

-Let's say this soloist confused band-leader Prince during the performance as this is not how he played in practice? (Longer, more flamboyantly?)

-Let's say the soloist threw the guitar up in the air at the end and left the stage?

Wondering how Prince would have felt about any of this?

[Edited 3/24/19 8:40am]

Who would play the guy upstaging Prince in this scenario?

This - and you can see from the stage that the performers were enjoying the performance. I see where you're coming from but don't think it completely applies.

peggyon said:

There were many equally talented guitar shredders to choose from during that time period.

IMO it was not the time or the place to 'upstage' anyone. It was a tribute for George. I wonder how this display affected George's wife?

i think we have been somewhat blinded by Prince's virtuosity (I get chills when I watch the performance), but I feel his behavior that night was insensitive to say the least.

He would not have stood for that behavior from a soloist.

herb4 said:

Who would play the guy upstaging Prince in this scenario?

[Edited 3/24/19 10:22am]

I absolutely understand the point you are making re Harrison's wife - although one would hope that her son's pure enjoyment and collaboration may have assuaged some of her feelings. I would take issue with you calling his performance upstaging - upstaging whom? He was being actively encouraged, from what the screen shows, and played sympathetically and within himself capturing the mode and mode of the song gorgeously: that's why I started the thread, in a way, because I find it a shame he did not stay on stage to join in the celebration of both the performance and the writer of the song.

https://www.shortlist.com/entertainment/music/tom-petty-prince-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-jeff-lynne/328368

Fun to read.

ufoclub said:

He threw the guitar up in the air to Harrison. Right?

SimonCharles said:

laytonian said:

Yes, George's wife was opposed to Prince playing because he was not a compatriot. Slight #2 was Petty's sideman Marin playing over Prince's parts during rehearsal. I think that's what spurred him on.

i could believe that, like i said, musicians will sabotage each other if given the chance, just how they are, ultra competitive. I've said it many times, i've been around pro-fighters and musicians, of the two, musicians are way more competitive.

violetcrush said:

SimonCharles said:

I absolutely understand the point you are making re Harrison's wife - although one would hope that her son's pure enjoyment and collaboration may have assuaged some of her feelings. I would take issue with you calling his performance upstaging - upstaging whom? He was being actively encouraged, from what the screen shows, and played sympathetically and within himself capturing the mode and mode of the song gorgeously: that's why I started the thread, in a way, because I find it a shame he did not stay on stage to join in the celebration of both the performance and the writer of the song.

His performance and solo were fantastic. However, he made it more about him instead of George by tossing his guitar and strutting off stage. BUT, that’s just Prince, and always was his way of doing things. Although, I do think the issues that reportedly happened during the rehearsal may have contributed to his decision on how he handled his performance. I agree that it would have been nice and more respectful of him to stay with the group at the end.

That's what I meant regarding my role reversal post. Few could have gotten away with the edge and shade he semi put off and I thought it was perfect

if they were fucking with him during rehearsals that just adds more fuel to the fire, he did the right thing. I hate musicians who do that, fuck'em, you get the feeling sometimes that they'd cut your throat if they could get away with it they're so petty, insecure and jealous.

Here's a thought that occured to me: Prince was full of shit regarding that song: http://prince.org/msg/7/324759

ufoclub said:

He threw the guitar up in the air to Harrison. Right?

That he did.

RichardS said:

https://www.shortlist.com/entertainment/music/tom-petty-prince-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-jeff-lynne/328368

Fun to read.

A fun read indeed.

herb4 said:

violetcrush said:

SimonCharles said: His performance and solo were fantastic. However, he made it more about him instead of George by tossing his guitar and strutting off stage. BUT, that’s just Prince, and always was his way of doing things. Although, I do think the issues that reportedly happened during the rehearsal may have contributed to his decision on how he handled his performance. I agree that it would have been nice and more respectful of him to stay with the group at the end.

That's what I meant regarding my role reversal post. Few could have gotten away with the edge and shade he semi put off and I thought it was perfect

And all power. It's just my little "Oh how I wish some things could have been different" - no more, no less.

steakfinger said:

Here's a thought that occured to me: Prince was full of shit regarding that song: http://prince.org/msg/7/324759

Perhaps, perhaps not - the other article mentioned above seems to give a different interpretation of the day and ngiht. All I know is, when I watch it now, I would just like there to be a different version where he stays on stage and takes a bow with the rest of the band.

laytonian said:

ufoclub said:

He threw the guitar up in the air to Harrison. Right?

No. To his guitar tech.

You don't get the wink?