about writing scripts for opioids.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/unwise-and-unnecessary-opioids-for-wisdom-teeth-extractions/2019/03/01/f3600a3c-2e33-11e9-86ab-5d02109aeb01_story.html?utm_term=.e9f684132b33

Good article, thanks for sharing.

The dentist that I used to work for, for 31 years, had greatly reduced the pain pill scripts over the years, towards the end he hardly prescribed for extractions.

sonshine said:

Good to read. And she isn't the only one. Lots of health csre providers have changed their prescribing habits. For those that haven't the gov't will change them for you. Either way it's a totally different practice now thank goodness. It does give me a tiny bit of peace knowing that his death has played a role in getting the opioid crisis the attention it deserved. Perhaps it wasn't entirely in vain.

would die 4 U

alandail said:

sonshine said:

alandail said:

It’s a tough problem. People have debilitating chronic pain. My wife is one. She is a breast cancer survivor and the medication she has to take for that causes severe bone pain. Some days it’s so bad she can’t get out of bed, or can’t sleep, without a pain pill. Other days she doesn’t need them. Cold or rainy days make it so much worse. She takes as few as possible because she doesn’t want to get addicted. She’s also terrified the anti-opioid trend will eventually cause her to not be able to get a prescription. Prince didn’t die because he took a pain killer prescription. He died because he didn’t get it through a prescriion and the pills he took were counterfeit and had fatal amount of Fentenyl. If doctors stop prescribing pills for people who legitimately need them for pain, more people will be forced to go the counterfeit route. And instead of saving lives, more people will die.

I've lived with a condition for 36 years in which I've been on and off the opioids. I get deep vein thrombosis (blood clots) in my leg and have had pulmonary embolisms many times. In the beginning, especially, the pain was excuciating. I remember going to the ER one time, because my leg was hurting so bad, swollen, and I'm lying there, just rocking on the gurney and crying, because it hurt. (I may have been 18 at the time, I was 17 when I first got them). I had been in and out of the hospital so many times in that year, that I was just so tired of hospitals. They gave me something in the hospital for the pain and I wasn't hurting anymore. In fact, I just felt normal, and it felt good to feel normal, to have no pain. I signed myself out of the hospital. The doctors tried to talk me out of it, tried to get my husband to talk me out of it, told him, "She has a clot that is ready to break loose. If it breaks loose it can kill her. You need to tell her that she needs to stay." He said, "Once she's made up her mind, there's no changing it." At 3 AM when the pain medication wore off, I was begging my husband to take me back to the ER. They readmitted me with the warning that if I left AMA again, they would not accept me back at their hospital.

But the pain medication has been a part of my life for those 36 years. However, I've only ever taken then when I needed to, and have asked the doctors more than once if they can just give me prescription strength Motrin, to help with inflammation. (They can't/won't because it messes with my anti-coagulants.)

I've been on them recently due to having cracked my ribs. However, the doctor gave me enough for 7 days (every 6 hours) over 2 weeks ago and I still have about 3/4th of the prescription left. Instead of a whole one, I'd take a half one every 6 to 8 hours for the first few days, and then just a 1/2 one occasionally when the pain increased because I'd been moving too much. I haven't had to take any in about 4 days.

You made a very valid point that he wasn't getting his medication through a prescription, but through the counterfeit route. When I need them, I need them, but then I take the minimum amount that I can (just enough to take the edge off the pain to allow myself to sleep or function with minimal pain). If I need them and can't get them, then I don't know what I'd do when I'm hurting as bad as I do at times.

PennyPurple said:

Good article, thanks for sharing.

The dentist that I used to work for, for 31 years, had greatly reduced the pain pill scripts over the years, towards the end he hardly prescribed for extractions.

someone should be held accountable for hooking millions on opioids but it won't be anyone with so respectable a face as a doctor or ceo. then too, i'm tired of hearing people complain, nothing new about the risks of pills, i avoid them like the plague whenever possible. Most of the time i don't take even aspirins anymore.

alandail said:

It’s a tough problem. People have debilitating chronic pain. My wife is one. She is a breast cancer survivor and the medication she has to take for that causes severe bone pain. Some days it’s so bad she can’t get out of bed, or can’t sleep, without a pain pill. Other days she doesn’t need them. Cold or rainy days make it so much worse. She takes as few as possible because she doesn’t want to get addicted. She’s also terrified the anti-opioid trend will eventually cause her to not be able to get a prescription. Prince didn’t die because he took a pain killer prescription. He died because he didn’t get it through a prescriion and the pills he took were counterfeit and had fatal amount of Fentenyl. If doctors stop prescribing pills for people who legitimately need them for pain, more people will be forced to go the counterfeit route. And instead of saving lives, more people will die.

we don't know for a fact but we have heard the problem started with a dr and then he was cuttoff so he resorted to illegal drugs. no difference really. and as for people in real pain, it's so hard to tell anymore because people are such crybabies, everyone needs something to deal with life. However I do know people who you could see are just completely unfunctional because of injuries and the drugs only make them semi functional and comfortable, it's a dilemma when that happens, but how are we to know when we have so many hysterical fucks running around. My mom and grandma were like that, total fucking hysterics and pillheads, shit ain't good for you. you need something to sleep? fuck you, stay awake and tough it out.

PeteSilas said:

alandail said:

It’s a tough problem. People have debilitating chronic pain. My wife is one. She is a breast cancer survivor and the medication she has to take for that causes severe bone pain. Some days it’s so bad she can’t get out of bed, or can’t sleep, without a pain pill. Other days she doesn’t need them. Cold or rainy days make it so much worse. She takes as few as possible because she doesn’t want to get addicted. She’s also terrified the anti-opioid trend will eventually cause her to not be able to get a prescription. Prince didn’t die because he took a pain killer prescription. He died because he didn’t get it through a prescriion and the pills he took were counterfeit and had fatal amount of Fentenyl. If doctors stop prescribing pills for people who legitimately need them for pain, more people will be forced to go the counterfeit route. And instead of saving lives, more people will die.

we don't know for a fact but we have heard the problem started with a dr and then he was cuttoff so he resorted to illegal drugs. no difference really. and as for people in real pain, it's so hard to tell anymore because people are such crybabies, everyone needs something to deal with life. However I do know people who you could see are just completely unfunctional because of injuries and the drugs only make them semi functional and comfortable, it's a dilemma when that happens, but how are we to know when we have so many hysterical fucks running around. My mom and grandma were like that, total fucking hysterics and pillheads, shit ain't good for you. you need something to sleep? fuck you, stay awake and tough it out.

I'm not going to tell my father that who is probably going to die from cancer soon and was just put on a strong pain medication...

purplethunder3121 said:

PeteSilas said:

we don't know for a fact but we have heard the problem started with a dr and then he was cuttoff so he resorted to illegal drugs. no difference really. and as for people in real pain, it's so hard to tell anymore because people are such crybabies, everyone needs something to deal with life. However I do know people who you could see are just completely unfunctional because of injuries and the drugs only make them semi functional and comfortable, it's a dilemma when that happens, but how are we to know when we have so many hysterical fucks running around. My mom and grandma were like that, total fucking hysterics and pillheads, shit ain't good for you. you need something to sleep? fuck you, stay awake and tough it out.

I'm not going to tell my father that who is probably going to die from cancer soon and was just put on a strong pain medication...

i hear you, but i hope you see what i'm saying, people are using any excuse to take a pill.that's the point.

There has to be compassion for people that live with chronic pain.

Again there is a difference from a drug addict and a chronic pain user. Yes, more than likely they will each become addicted. Normally a drug addict lies, cheats, steals and buys off the street to feed their addiction. Chronic pain users normally go the legal route and see a pain management Dr. for their pain relief.


The thing that makes this so difficult for chronic pain users is they become tolerant and need more and more to help with the pain and thus the problem.

I know I've talked about this before but I've kind of shied away from it because other posters ding me, saying that I don't know what I'm talking about, or I need to take care of my husband and not post on the forum, or I'm making it about myself.

There is a stigma attached to these meds, every time I would get hubby's script filled there was a lot of judgement going on behind that pharmacy counter.

PennyPurple said:

There has to be compassion for people that live with chronic pain.

Again there is a difference from a drug addict and a chronic pain user. Yes, more than likely they will each become addicted. Normally a drug addict lies, cheats, steals and buys off the street to feed their addiction. Chronic pain users normally go the legal route and see a pain management Dr. for their pain relief.


The thing that makes this so difficult for chronic pain users is they become tolerant and need more and more to help with the pain and thus the problem.

I know I've talked about this before but I've kind of shied away from it because other posters ding me, saying that I don't know what I'm talking about, or I need to take care of my husband and not post on the forum, or I'm making it about myself.

There is a stigma attached to these meds, every time I would get hubby's script filled there was a lot of judgement going on behind that pharmacy counter.

I do live with chronic pain, but mine is not an every moment type of chronic pain, therefore, I don't get these subscriptions all the time. If my leg is exceptionally swollen and painful, then I'll see my doctor. Most days, the pain is manageable and I just deal with it. (Usually, nighttime is when I feel it the most, because I don't have anything else to occupy my mind so my mind focuses on the pain.)

When I worked for hospice, we had a lot of patients that were afraid to take the opioids because they were afraid of getting addicted. Our nurses would explain to them, that as long as they took the medication as prescribed, and only took what was absolutely necessary, then they would not get addicted. The medication would address their pain, and that would be it.

So, I never take more than prescribed (and actually will take less than prescribed - barest minimum needed). Doing that doesn't get rid of all the pain, but it makes the pain bareable, and enables me to be able to work and function. If I took it the way the doctor's prescribe it, I think it would create a dependency on them.

The thing is, I can go several months and not need a single one. And then my leg gets bad and I may need them for a few days. Once the pain is manageable, I stop taking them again. I don't want to get dependent upon them and I definitely don't want to get addicted to them, and I've found taking the bare minimum, for a very short length of time, has allowed me to be able to function without them most of the time, except on rare occasions.

I learned the hard way years ago to not trust doctors with these prescriptions (and that's why I take less). Went to the ER once, midterms during college, and my leg was really bad. I told the ER doc that I didn't want any narcotics, nothing that would mess with my head, because I was trying to study for my midterms. Doc prescribed me Stadol. He told me it was a non-narcotic, non-addictive, and would not mess with my head. Then he told me to take 2 puffs up each nostril for the pain.

I had never had a medication that you spray in your nose for pain, so I did some research. Found out Stadol was a narcotic, was highly addictive (many medical professionals were addicted to it), and that if I had taken it the way the doctor prescribed it, I would have been back at the ER from an overdose (as manufacturer recommended 1 spray in 1 nostril). That was one time I just grinned and bared it, because I was not going to take that medication.

purplethunder3121 said:

I'm not going to tell my father that who is probably going to die from cancer soon and was just put on a strong pain medication...

Try to just keep him comfortable. I would be liberal with the meds at this time.

benni said:

PennyPurple said:

There has to be compassion for people that live with chronic pain.

Again there is a difference from a drug addict and a chronic pain user. Yes, more than likely they will each become addicted. Normally a drug addict lies, cheats, steals and buys off the street to feed their addiction. Chronic pain users normally go the legal route and see a pain management Dr. for their pain relief.


The thing that makes this so difficult for chronic pain users is they become tolerant and need more and more to help with the pain and thus the problem.

I know I've talked about this before but I've kind of shied away from it because other posters ding me, saying that I don't know what I'm talking about, or I need to take care of my husband and not post on the forum, or I'm making it about myself.

There is a stigma attached to these meds, every time I would get hubby's script filled there was a lot of judgement going on behind that pharmacy counter.

I do live with chronic pain, but mine is not an every moment type of chronic pain, therefore, I don't get these subscriptions all the time. If my leg is exceptionally swollen and painful, then I'll see my doctor. Most days, the pain is manageable and I just deal with it. (Usually, nighttime is when I feel it the most, because I don't have anything else to occupy my mind so my mind focuses on the pain.)

When I worked for hospice, we had a lot of patients that were afraid to take the opioids because they were afraid of getting addicted. Our nurses would explain to them, that as long as they took the medication as prescribed, and only took what was absolutely necessary, then they would not get addicted. The medication would address their pain, and that would be it.

So, I never take more than prescribed (and actually will take less than prescribed - barest minimum needed). Doing that doesn't get rid of all the pain, but it makes the pain bareable, and enables me to be able to work and function. If I took it the way the doctor's prescribe it, I think it would create a dependency on them.

The thing is, I can go several months and not need a single one. And then my leg gets bad and I may need them for a few days. Once the pain is manageable, I stop taking them again. I don't want to get dependent upon them and I definitely don't want to get addicted to them, and I've found taking the bare minimum, for a very short length of time, has allowed me to be able to function without them most of the time, except on rare occasions.

I learned the hard way years ago to not trust doctors with these prescriptions (and that's why I take less). Went to the ER once, midterms during college, and my leg was really bad. I told the ER doc that I didn't want any narcotics, nothing that would mess with my head, because I was trying to study for my midterms. Doc prescribed me Stadol. He told me it was a non-narcotic, non-addictive, and would not mess with my head. Then he told me to take 2 puffs up each nostril for the pain.

I had never had a medication that you spray in your nose for pain, so I did some research. Found out Stadol was a narcotic, was highly addictive (many medical professionals were addicted to it), and that if I had taken it the way the doctor prescribed it, I would have been back at the ER from an overdose (as manufacturer recommended 1 spray in 1 nostril). That was one time I just grinned and bared it, because I was not going to take that medication.

see, that's sick, i dont trust them because of cultural and personal reasons, got a good doc now

PeteSilas said:

benni said:

I learned the hard way years ago to not trust doctors with these prescriptions (and that's why I take less). Went to the ER once, midterms during college, and my leg was really bad. I told the ER doc that I didn't want any narcotics, nothing that would mess with my head, because I was trying to study for my midterms. Doc prescribed me Stadol. He told me it was a non-narcotic, non-addictive, and would not mess with my head. Then he told me to take 2 puffs up each nostril for the pain.

I had never had a medication that you spray in your nose for pain, so I did some research. Found out Stadol was a narcotic, was highly addictive (many medical professionals were addicted to it), and that if I had taken it the way the doctor prescribed it, I would have been back at the ER from an overdose (as manufacturer recommended 1 spray in 1 nostril). That was one time I just grinned and bared it, because I was not going to take that medication.

see, that's sick, i dont trust them because of cultural and personal reasons, got a good doc now

Here's the sick part of it: I learned because of that, that doctor's only know about the medications based on what the pharmaceutical reps come in and tell them. Doctor's don't have time to research every new medication that comes onto the market. They don't have time to look into all the side effects, medications contraindications, etc. The pharmaceutical reps come to their offices, make a sales pitch on the newest and brightest drug on the market. For instance, they may downplay certain addictive qualities of these drugs. They may say to the doctor, "You'll be amazed at the difference in your patients' pain levels, and you prescribe these 1 to 2 tablets every 4 hours." Then they'll tell them these drugs will work for this or that, which it isn't specifically designed for. In the attempt to get these doctors to prescribe more and more of the medication. And that is what happened with these opioids. Many of these manufacturers and distributors could be facing major law suits this year.


https://www.npr.org/2018/...ts-in-2019

We know already that in the 1990s there was growing pressure in the health care industry to treat pain more aggressively. Purdue Pharma created a game-changing, long-acting opioid called Oxycontin. The company marketed the drug aggressively to doctors as a safe medication that provided long-term relief.

"In fact, the rate of addiction amongst pain patients who are treated by doctors is much less than one percent," claimed one of the company's advertisements at the time, aimed at convincing skeptical physicians. "These drugs should be used much more than they are for patients in pain."

rogifan said:

I hear Perdue pharma may be filing for bankruptcy.

I seen that yesterday, told my hubby. We don't know how since they have made billions of $$

i believe it, i took a couple diet pills my doc prescribed but one of them got me high as a kite, it felt too good. even though this doc I have means well, i quit them right away, she still wants to put me on them, they are just fucking people, they don't know everything. I keep telling her taking anything is a slippery slope, you make one compromise, further compromise gets easier and easier. so, i don't blame the docs like some people do, i have a friend who has a daughter who is on the streets with a heroin habit, she's mad at the docs, but we're indian, since when did we believe anything doctors told us? use your brain, of course i can't say that to a mother who puts it all over her facebook, (probably not a good thing) everday and worries about it. The damage is done now, maybe the kid will get clean or maybe they won't, it's life here in the us, everyone has to have something to deal with their shitty lives.

benni said:

PeteSilas said:

see, that's sick, i dont trust them because of cultural and personal reasons, got a good doc now

Here's the sick part of it: I learned because of that, that doctor's only know about the medications based on what the pharmaceutical reps come in and tell them. Doctor's don't have time to research every new medication that comes onto the market. They don't have time to look into all the side effects, medications contraindications, etc. The pharmaceutical reps come to their offices, make a sales pitch on the newest and brightest drug on the market. For instance, they may downplay certain addictive qualities of these drugs. They may say to the doctor, "You'll be amazed at the difference in your patients' pain levels, and you prescribe these 1 to 2 tablets every 4 hours." Then they'll tell them these drugs will work for this or that, which it isn't specifically designed for. In the attempt to get these doctors to prescribe more and more of the medication. And that is what happened with these opioids. Many of these manufacturers and distributors could be facing major law suits this year.


https://www.npr.org/2018/...ts-in-2019

We know already that in the 1990s there was growing pressure in the health care industry to treat pain more aggressively. Purdue Pharma created a game-changing, long-acting opioid called Oxycontin. The company marketed the drug aggressively to doctors as a safe medication that provided long-term relief.

"In fact, the rate of addiction amongst pain patients who are treated by doctors is much less than one percent," claimed one of the company's advertisements at the time, aimed at convincing skeptical physicians. "These drugs should be used much more than they are for patients in pain."

Having pain due to cancer or a chronic illness is one of the reasons I feel medical marijuana is fine. Opiate addition just kills people sooner instead of helping them. As others have said, the big Pharmas created this huge problem because of the almighty bottom line. It's going to take a full generation to get this crap under control.

Lovejunky said:

sonshine said:

Good to read. And she isn't the only one. Lots of health csre providers have changed their prescribing habits. For those that haven't the gov't will change them for you. Either way it's a totally different practice now thank goodness. It does give me a tiny bit of peace knowing that his death has played a role in getting the opioid crisis the attention it deserved. Perhaps it wasn't entirely in vain.

would die 4 U

This made me tear up, even though I have thought the very same thing. At least the whole world knows that Fentynal can kill........anyone.

PennyPurple said:

rogifan said:

I hear Perdue pharma may be filing for bankruptcy.

I seen that yesterday, told my hubby. We don't know how since they have made billions of $$

it's probably in swiss accounts.

Most of the world, myself included, had never heard of fentanyl until Prince passed. Now, there is heightened awareness and many lives have been saved. I stopped giving my son pain killers for football after Prince passed.

donnyenglish said:

Most of the world, myself included, had never heard of fentanyl until Prince passed. Now, there is heightened awareness and many lives have been saved. I stopped giving my son pain killers for football after Prince passed.

Yup, I never heard of the stuff either.

donnyenglish said:

alandail said:

donnyenglish said:

Most of the world, myself included, had never heard of fentanyl until Prince passed. Now, there is heightened awareness and many lives have been saved. I stopped giving my son pain killers for football after Prince passed.

You realize fentenyl isn’t in most legitimate pain killers, right? There are fentynal pain patches, but most legally obtained pain killers aren’t made with fentenyl. Prince didn’t die because he took Vicodin, he died because he took counterfeit Vicodin that ended up being made by someone who used fentenyl to make them to save money and their quality control was what You would expect from counterfeiters. Certainly there is no reason at all to not take non opiod pain killers for pain, like ibuprophin. [Edited 3/9/19 16:28pm]

Knowing how smart Prince was, I can't help but think he knew how it all was going to end. Lisa Marie says that MJ feared ending up like Elvis and would ask about his death. You roll the dice enough times you're going to have problems. I just keep reminding people that human beings all over the world have pain issues but America is the one to consume, what is it? 90 percent of the opium and probably about that much of the other drugs too. Earlier in this thread people talked about how real pain needs to be dealt with, and brought up family members, if you're or a loved ones pain is really that bad, fuck what anyone else thinks, do what you got to do but I keep saying that alot of pains people have they need to just live with. I've known people with all kinds of pain issues, real pain, there is no way they were faking, not with the scars they had, problem is, there are a lot of fakers out there.

alandail said:

donnyenglish said:

alandail said:

You realize fentenyl isn’t in most legitimate pain killers, right? There are fentynal pain patches, but most legally obtained pain killers aren’t made with fentenyl. Prince didn’t die because he took Vicodin, he died because he took counterfeit Vicodin that ended up being made by someone who used fentenyl to make them to save money and their quality control was what You would expect from counterfeiters. Certainly there is no reason at all to not take non opiod pain killers for pain, like ibuprophin. [Edited 3/9/19 16:28pm]

But there is a reason not to take Vicodin and similar “legitimate pain killers” that are the gateway to fentanyl. Many people die exactly the way Prince died by getting hooked on so called “legitimate pain killers” that cause addiction and eventually victims get a counterfeit pill made with fentanyl.

And our nations response to that is to cut off access to the legitimate pills so more people are forced ot turn to counterfiet.

I posted above my wife has chronic debilitating pain. She has to take Vicodin for it, nothing else works. without some pain releve she can't function or can't sleep. It's becoming increasingly hard for her to get prescriptions filled because of the crack down on legitmate Vicodin when the crack down shoud be on the counterfiets. People with debilitating chronic pain shouldn't be afraid that the medication they sometimes need to function is going to be taken away from them.

As for Prince, my guess has aways been he went the non prescirption route because he didn't want it to get out that he needed pain killers. Stigmitizing people who need opiods for legitimate debilitating pain isn't going to help that issue.

It's a tough issue to solve because there are addicts who will fake pain to get prescriptions. But we can't lose sympathy and concern with people who are in chronic pain, like Prince was.

And, again, I pointed out that for football pain, there's really no reason not to use something like prescriptopn stength ibuprophiern

PeteSilas said:

alandail said:

donnyenglish said: You realize fentenyl isn’t in most legitimate pain killers, right? There are fentynal pain patches, but most legally obtained pain killers aren’t made with fentenyl. Prince didn’t die because he took Vicodin, he died because he took counterfeit Vicodin that ended up being made by someone who used fentenyl to make them to save money and their quality control was what You would expect from counterfeiters. Certainly there is no reason at all to not take non opiod pain killers for pain, like ibuprophin. [Edited 3/9/19 16:28pm]

Knowing how smart Prince was, I can't help but think he knew how it all was going to end. Lisa Marie says that MJ feared ending up like Elvis and would ask about his death. You roll the dice enough times you're going to have problems. I just keep reminding people that human beings all over the world have pain issues but America is the one to consume, what is it? 90 percent of the opium and probably about that much of the other drugs too. Earlier in this thread people talked about how real pain needs to be dealt with, and brought up family members, if you're or a loved ones pain is really that bad, fuck what anyone else thinks, do what you got to do but I keep saying that alot of pains people have they need to just live with. I've known people with all kinds of pain issues, real pain, there is no way they were faking, not with the scars they had, problem is, there are a lot of fakers out there.

That was me earlie in the therad. My point is you dont' punish the people who legitimately suffere from pain because there are people who fake it. People in constant pain with no releif get to the point they don't want to keep living like that anymore.