OldFriends4Sale said:

SoulAlive said:

Genesia said:

OperatingThetan said:

The microphone gun was artistic symbolism - words of love and power, creativity and inspiration as a weapon.

Prince was incorporating (then) current trends and sounds into his music and had massive chart success as a result.

I got a Tec-9 too and it's called my brain

I like this discussion, and the interpretation (and Days of Wild quote of course!), I always thought there was also a self-destructive and inverted symbolism with the gun. He was singing with a loaded gun to his mouth (no not saying he was suicidal at all, but does tie in with the hangman and noose imagery in Purple Rain and Grafitti Bridge), I kind of saw it as externalising inner conflict. However, I think the lyrical and musical weaponry image makes a lot of sense with both together working on Prince's Gemini duality.

I feel that Purple Rain depicts the abuse of woman, as a cycle of abuse. Something Prince regrets and regrets when he does it. His controlling of Wendy and Lisa (not playing "there" songs in the fictional film") and the controlling and abuse (not helping her career and beating her and being possessive of her like she is his) is shown in a negative light. It shows him as insecure and frightened. His crowning achievement in the film is playing purple rain. Prince beating Apollonia is the scared powerless Prince on the ground crying that can't stop his father beating (potentially killing or nearly killing his mother). Apollonia leaves him. I get the idea her coming back at the end would be the end of the abuse, but abuse is not that tidy (and you could argue that Apollonia is coming back to being beaten again if Prince does not seek help). Maybe the father shooting himself is the rock bottom that will stop both men doing this. I can't remember any abuse in Graffiti Bridge the next movie with 'the Kid' So essentially abuse is not glorified it is but shows the cyclical and tormented nature of the abusers "never get married" Francis L.

Agree Prince shows himself under the control of woman, or putting on his game face, something in the water, got a broken heart again more often than not.

There could be something to say, though, about his ease at working with women vs men

Sometimes that is sign of thoughts of gender imbalance

OldFriends4Sale said:

There could be something to say, though, about his ease at working with women vs men

Sometimes that is sign of thoughts of gender imbalance

He could reimage the women, give them make overs, dress them, style them up.

Look how sexy he made Sheila, with the 1 sleeve, 1 pantleg outfits.

PennyPurple said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

There could be something to say, though, about his ease at working with women vs men

Sometimes that is sign of thoughts of gender imbalance

He could reimage the women, give them make overs, dress them, style them up.

Look how sexy he made Sheila, with the 1 sleeve, 1 pantleg outfits.

Yes. Women can be perceived as more 'manageable' vs men.

I still remember Patti LaBelle as the one that designed that 1 legged piece for Sheila E though

I mean Prince dressed the men over too, just as much, had them all wearing heavier makeup etc

So in that sense he was kinda equal with Male and Female.
But there are men who would rather hire women over men because, women 'easily adjust' over men.

OldFriends4Sale said:

no

you know, lust is ok

and expressing it in art is ok too

FullLipsDotNose said:

"A girl with guitar is twelve times better than another crazy band of boys

Tryna be a star in a misogynistic wall of noise"

"I would rape you if I must"

Krystalkisses said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

There could be something to say, though, about his ease at working with women vs men

Sometimes that is sign of thoughts of gender imbalance

That is an interesting point. But just speaking as a woman it irked me how he seemed to place women in such an exalted position that we don't deserve. Both men and women have their dark side and sometimes I think Prince had an idealized view of how they are. Some of the most vicious people ( psychologically ) have been women and the most fair and consistent have been men. Just been my experience. I'm sure it was a totally different experience dealing with women for Prince . Women loved him and he seemed to really understand them.

That reminds me of what he said during the show at Ghent in 2011 about how any time any thing went wrong in his life a man did it. He went on to give a few examples of how he had been wronged by men. I found that interesting.

Why? Why???!

God I can't take all this WOKE bullshit!!

I GUARANTEE if we looked into YOUR life we'd find plenty to condemn you about in this hypersensitive bullshit environment.

Plus let's analyze EVERY movie and song that doesn't fit into today's environment and we'd be left with....nothing but boring boring things.

As a matter of fact we'd condemn every living being if we looked into every moment of a person's existence.

[Edited 3/4/19 13:33pm]

pinkcashmere23 said:

sro100 said:

luvsexy4all said:

TrivialPursuit said:

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

We all know that P worshipped women & gave them endless career opportunities. Outside of the sphere of music he opened doors for photographers, creatives, designers, P..Park staff & many others. In this respect the man was incredible & his legacy on this front is firmly in tact & very much in keeping on where we are now.

That said when I now look at the songs/images/videos from day 1 through to say 2002 in particular some of it makes me cringe! The list is endless from Vanity 6, treatment of Apollonia in P. Rain, the Sexy MF video, raping Lady Cab driver [!] & many, many others. The message in some cases is filled with his own purple logic...Sexy MF shows a woman being subservient BUT what she does with her mind is what makes her a Sexy MF !! I could write for pages on this but y'all get the gist!

I would love your honest perspectives on this especially from the ladies on here. Do you feel uncomfortable OR is it just a case of context of the time?

Over to you.

This post is absolutely clueless.

Prince has consistently, from the beginning, put women in positions of power. He's almost always submissive to them (minus maybe 1 or 2 instances). Even with something like "Bambi", where people see it as homophobic, he still leaves it up to her. He pleads with her, tries every catcall in the book, but we never hear that she gave into his lusty desires to bone her. "Automatic" - women in control. "Darling Nikki" - she was in control and left his ass. He's so in love he does care where she takes him, just "take me with u". His sister dominated him in another song, becoming his pimp and dominatrix. Prince often sidesteps the obvious 1-2 punch of fucking on the first date, often vying to just spend time with a woman to get to know her, "tonight we make love with only words, girls first", "we'll try to imagine what silence looks like" (one of his best lines ever, by the way). He pleads his way into a girl's life and most intimate soul, asking "If I was your girlfriend, would you tell me?". The list is endless.

As far as the way Vanity or Apollonia dressed, they opted for that gig. They could have protested. They could have done something else. They were women in power, holding their sexuality as their own weapon of choice. Hell "Nasty Girl" ends with "that's it? Wake me when you're done." DISS! Vanity continued her sexy vixen look well past that one album. You think "Pretty Mess" is about French onion dip?

This thread is a non-starter.

I'd also add that in many instances, Prince was telling women they have the power (and also warning them to slow down when it comes to their sexuality - LRC "baby you're much too fast"). He was stating that he found women who had that control over themselves, knew what they wanted, and put themselves first, were to be admired. For example in Pussy Control:


And step she did 2 the straight A's
Then college, the master degree
She hired the heifers that jumped her
And made everyone of them work 4 free?
No! Why?
So what if my sisters are triflin'?
They just don't know
She said "Mama didn't tell'em what she told me
'Girl, U need Pussy Control'" (Are U ready?)


He was pointing out that a girl that received her education was a girl that was going places, was going to be someone. I'm not sure of any other artists that would make that distinction.

Krystalkisses said:

Let me just put it this way, if Prince of back in the day would have done the things he did then with today's women, the #metoo movement would be on his ass big time!

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

Krystalkisses said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

There could be something to say, though, about his ease at working with women vs men

Sometimes that is sign of thoughts of gender imbalance

That is an interesting point. But just speaking as a woman it irked me how he seemed to place women in such an exalted position that we don't deserve. Both men and women have their dark side and sometimes I think Prince had an idealized view of how they are. Some of the most vicious people ( psychologically ) have been women and the most fair and consistent have been men. Just been my experience. I'm sure it was a totally different experience dealing with women for Prince . Women loved him and he seemed to really understand them.

Maybe he had trust issues with men since his stepfather was abusive (I don't know if John was abusive towards Prince and his siblings tho). Maybe I'm just reaching, but could it be that he felt safer around women?

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

sro100 said:

Why? Why???!

God I can't take all this WOKE bullshit!!

I GUARANTEE if we looked into YOUR life we'd find plenty to condemn you about in this hypersensitive bullshit environment.

Plus let's analyze EVERY movie and song that doesn't fit into today's environment and we'd be left with....nothing but boring boring things.

As a matter of fact we'd condemn every living being if we looked into every moment of a person's existence.

[Edited 3/4/19 13:33pm]

Thank you for that pointless contribution!

Thank you for the pointless thread!!

oceanblue said:

Let me just put it this way, if Prince of back in the day would have done the things he did then with today's women, the #metoo movement would be on his ass big time!

i dont think so..women wouldnt mind be "used" by Prince back then

Krystalkisses said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

That reminds me of what he said during the show at Ghent in 2011 about how any time any thing went wrong in his life a man did it. He went on to give a few examples of how he had been wronged by men. I found that interesting.

It is interesting that he would share that.

Yes,it was rather out of the blue.

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

206Michelle said:

No. He mentored, worked with, and befriended dozens of women. Sinead O’Connor aside, women like Wendy Melvoin, Lisa Coleman, Janelle Monae, Donna Grantis, Susan Rogers’s, Ida Nielsen, Hannah Welton, Tamron Hall, Kim Berry, Salma Hayek, Damaris Lewis...they all speak well of him. No allegations of sexual conduct.

whoaaaa..not so much sexual conduct [NOT the point of this thread] I am more focussed on outdated sexual imagery / lyrics etc. Wendy & Lisa mentioned this very point in a recent interview re certain scenes in P. Rain .

Krystalkisses said:

In response to the op, I think Prince's work/style/aesthetic was heavily influenced by pornography, and there has never been anything PC about that. There are many different aspects to Prince and his work but one thing that always felt constant was an undercurrent of it always felt like a merging of pornography/music in every era to me. The double entendres, the beat, the babes, all of it. [Edited 3/8/19 10:23am]

great point. The lyrics & imagery + the way he behaved on stage was 1] very much of it's time & 2] he did a lot for shock value / high marketing impact. Great for then & not so for now.