OldFriends4Sale said:

violetcrush said:

OldFriends4Sale said: But, those lyrics are political - he'd been advocating for gun control in his lyrics for years - ever since John Lennon was shot. He also got much heavier into the religious and political dialog in the early 2000's. He had that whole political opening to his show where he was stating that Lincoln was a racist. * He was an artist - a musician - and he was able to "soften" his stance by singing and playing a funky or melodic beat. Much different than just standing still and speaking the words.

Did I say they were not political?

It's infused with his religiosity.

Was Jesus a political figure?

Religion is often inevitably infused with politics - conservative vs. liberal leanings with socio-economic and political ideals tend to bleed into it.

*

I agree that he was definitely not on a major "soap box" like a typical political figure. He was making his views and ideals known with his lyrics though. Yes, most of his songs- especially through the 80's and 90's were more centered around his reiligious views with a sprinkling of the political/socio-economic side on songs like Race. However, by the 2000's he was voicing his opinions more on the socio-economic and political side with songs like Avanlanche, Dreamer, and Dear Mr Man. He also covered When Will We Be Paid. He was discussing his beliefs in Chemtrails on the Tavis Smiley show in 2009. He was stating that Lincoln was a racist during his opening at his 2002 shows. So, he was becoming much more vocal toward the end of his life.

violetcrush said:

Good points. A lot of ppl have a narrow view of what constitutes “political.” I think they only see a folkie or rapper reciting slogans.

jdcxc said:

violetcrush said:

Religion is often inevitably infused with politics - conservative vs. liberal leanings with socio-economic and political ideals tend to bleed into it.

*

I agree that he was definitely not on a major "soap box" like a typical political figure. He was making his views and ideals known with his lyrics though. Yes, most of his songs- especially through the 80's and 90's were more centered around his reiligious views with a sprinkling of the political/socio-economic side on songs like Race. However, by the 2000's he was voicing his opinions more on the socio-economic and political side with songs like Avanlanche, Dreamer, and Dear Mr Man. He also covered When Will We Be Paid. He was discussing his beliefs in Chemtrails on the Tavis Smiley show in 2009. He was stating that Lincoln was a racist during his opening at his 2002 shows. So, he was becoming much more vocal toward the end of his life.

Good points. A lot of ppl have a narrow view of what constitutes “political.” I think they only see a folkie or rapper reciting slogans.

Yes, with the exception of the period heavily influenced by his JW beliefs, Prince took a more subtle approach to both religious and political views in his music.

violetcrush said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Did I say they were not political?

It's infused with his religiosity.

Was Jesus a political figure?

Religion is often inevitably infused with politics - conservative vs. liberal leanings with socio-economic and political ideals tend to bleed into it.

*

I agree that he was definitely not on a major "soap box" like a typical political figure. He was making his views and ideals known with his lyrics though. Yes, most of his songs- especially through the 80's and 90's were more centered around his reiligious views with a sprinkling of the political/socio-economic side on songs like Race. However, by the 2000's he was voicing his opinions more on the socio-economic and political side with songs like Avanlanche, Dreamer, and Dear Mr Man. He also covered When Will We Be Paid. He was discussing his beliefs in Chemtrails on the Tavis Smiley show in 2009. He was stating that Lincoln was a racist during his opening at his 2002 shows. So, he was becoming much more vocal toward the end of his life.

Well that isn't always true, invididuals, many do not let it bleed into their personal spiritual life. I mean the JW not even voting or taking part in aspects of national concern is a big reason many were persecuted in Europe.

.
I asked 'was Jesus a political' figure, because, he talked about paying taxes, he said some things about the governing bodies of Israel etc but does that make him a political figure. The answer is no.
.
It was 2017 leading up to April, when a lot of people started making articles about Prince. One particular one, that was posted here, said Prince was some kind of political figure. Which many of us disagreed. Now we/I am a hardcore Prince fan. I can quote Prince lyrics like a Rabbi can quote hebrew scripture and text lol So the person who wrote the article clearly did not know Prince music. They attached songs to the wrong albums, and wrong years etc That right there will get you thrown out.
.
The reasonings you posted above, are really nothing that was increased as he got older in my opinion. Prince evenly in the 80s sang about various topics that touched on social-political commentary.

When Will We Be Paid 2001
Avanlanche 2002

Dear Mr Man 2004
Peace 2004

Dreamer 2009
Colonized mind 2009

.

Money Don't Matter Tonight 1991
One Song 1999

.

Party Up 1980
Sexuality 1981
Annie Christian 1981
Ronnie Talk 2 Russia 1981
Free 1982
Lady Cab Driver 1982
Dance Electric

America 1985
Pop Life 1985
Make Yo Momma Happy 1986
Crystal Ball 1986
In A Large Room With No Light 1986
Dance On 1988
Escape 1988
Positivity 1988
Yo Mister 1988

.

I just mentioned what I could remember.

.

talking about 'chemtrails' isn't actually 'political' I mean if the things Prince talked about and sang about are "political" then I guess we all can be considered political figures. I'm not saying, nor have I ever said Prince never talked/sang about politics. Of course he has, but the push since he passed to make him some 'Political figure' is not realistic. SOTT is a song of social commentary. Not political. Even the title of the song, points to his religious apocyliptic urgency...of the 'Dawn' Signs of the Times biblically are things that happen in the world and earth 'like earthquakes in diverse places' the earthquake that Prince experienced that promted him writing the song... point to the 2nd Coming ie return of Christ, end of this world as we know it etc

SOTT and the Cross are extremely connected in this sense.

And if anything for every 1 song we can call 'political' he had 3-5+ that were religious. I would not call Prince a religious figure either.
.

The one constant I've seen with Prince was a 'this is an issue' song and some of those songs included the 'solution'. Then there were the 'solution' songs. Which tended to be his belief in the afterworld or the Dawn. the Theocratic order.

.
Because of this fact, many people grow up and blindly assume their pre-selected role
Under a dictatorship without even being aware of it
When asked what they are doing here on earth, most will answer with statements
That do not reflect their natural God-given desires
This creates a pyramid-like structure with the dictator on top
And each level under it knowing less and less
Upon reaching the bottom level - which is where the majority is
You will find chaos, disorder, and illusion
With ill as its prefix, illusion is a state of insanity
In the name of democracy, supreme power is vested unto the people in this insane state instead of God
A future re-created, to be ruled by man, is one of isolation and despair
Returning the leadership back into God will allow mankind to achieve its original collective goal
Which is union with God
Ideas contrary to this goal should not be blamed or persecuted - just simply ignored
.
Sign o' the times mess with your mind
Hurry before it's too late
Let's fall in love, get married, have a baby
We'll call him Nate
If it's a boy

.

again, and to jdcxc the question is not if prince is/was polical or if Prince made political songs/commentary. Darknight1 specically said 'not aggressively political' and the idea that Prince is a political figure, so a folk singer and a rapper has nothing to do with this.

Sign of the Times a direct biblical concept starts out the album

and ends (outside of IGBABN) with the Cross which points to the 2nd coming.

Both biblical beliefs/religious in origin.

.

You know SOTT is called a Socio-political song. Why not a Social-Religious song which is more like what it is.

.

If what Prince said about his original intentions for the lyrics of Let's Go Crazy, which is very similar in intent to Sign of the Times, then both looking at social issues still point to God for the answer, not politics. And this theme is found strongly through his whole musical career.

OldFriends4Sale said:

.
I asked 'was Jesus a political' figure,

.

Well.. Jesus very much was a political figure in his day, more than religious even. It's one of the reasons why his ideas were translated into something roughly supporting a power structure and then made the state religion in ancient Rome. But that's a topic for another site.

.

OldFriends4Sale said:

One particular one, that was posted here, said Prince was some kind of political figure. Which many of us disagreed.

.

I would not say he was a political figure, even though he clearly thought about the world around him and he had political and religious and social ideas. Of the three, the political ideas seemed to come out least and hardly ever in way to tell people what to vote or how to think, he reserved that for his religious ideas.

.

OldFriends4Sale said:

talking about 'chemtrails' isn't actually 'political'

.

Nope, it's a conspiracy theory. I mentioned it with regard to the thing that I object to, spouting wrong information, other than questionable ideas. Which I'm ok with.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Of course the discussion of “Chemtrails” is political. It also falls into the specific Black arts tradition of sociopolitical discourse/expression that utilizes conspiracy theories as metaphors for real governmental oppression (see Dick Gregory, Gil Scott Heron or Prince’s “The War”).

What is “aggressively political?” Give me some artists.

jdcxc said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Well that isn't always true, invididuals, many do not let it bleed into their personal spiritual life. I mean the JW not even voting or taking part in aspects of national concern is a big reason many were persecuted in Europe.

.
I asked 'was Jesus a political' figure, because, he talked about paying taxes, he said some things about the governing bodies of Israel etc but does that make him a political figure. The answer is no.
.
It was 2017 leading up to April, when a lot of people started making articles about Prince. One particular one, that was posted here, said Prince was some kind of political figure. Which many of us disagreed. Now we/I am a hardcore Prince fan. I can quote Prince lyrics like a Rabbi can quote hebrew scripture and text lol So the person who wrote the article clearly did not know Prince music. They attached songs to the wrong albums, and wrong years etc That right there will get you thrown out.
.
The reasonings you posted above, are really nothing that was increased as he got older in my opinion. Prince evenly in the 80s sang about various topics that touched on social-political commentary.

When Will We Be Paid 2001
Avanlanche 2002

Dear Mr Man 2004
Peace 2004

Dreamer 2009
Colonized mind 2009

.

Money Don't Matter Tonight 1991
One Song 1999

.

Party Up 1980
Sexuality 1981
Annie Christian 1981
Ronnie Talk 2 Russia 1981
Free 1982
Lady Cab Driver 1982
Dance Electric

America 1985
Pop Life 1985
Make Yo Momma Happy 1986
Crystal Ball 1986
In A Large Room With No Light 1986
Dance On 1988
Escape 1988
Positivity 1988
Yo Mister 1988

.

I just mentioned what I could remember.

.

talking about 'chemtrails' isn't actually 'political' I mean if the things Prince talked about and sang about are "political" then I guess we all can be considered political figures. I'm not saying, nor have I ever said Prince never talked/sang about politics. Of course he has, but the push since he passed to make him some 'Political figure' is not realistic. SOTT is a song of social commentary. Not political. Even the title of the song, points to his religious apocyliptic urgency...of the 'Dawn' Signs of the Times biblically are things that happen in the world and earth 'like earthquakes in diverse places' the earthquake that Prince experienced that promted him writing the song... point to the 2nd Coming ie return of Christ, end of this world as we know it etc

SOTT and the Cross are extremely connected in this sense.

And if anything for every 1 song we can call 'political' he had 3-5+ that were religious. I would not call Prince a religious figure either.
.

The one constant I've seen with Prince was a 'this is an issue' song and some of those songs included the 'solution'. Then there were the 'solution' songs. Which tended to be his belief in the afterworld or the Dawn. the Theocratic order.

.
Because of this fact, many people grow up and blindly assume their pre-selected role
Under a dictatorship without even being aware of it
When asked what they are doing here on earth, most will answer with statements
That do not reflect their natural God-given desires
This creates a pyramid-like structure with the dictator on top
And each level under it knowing less and less
Upon reaching the bottom level - which is where the majority is
You will find chaos, disorder, and illusion
With ill as its prefix, illusion is a state of insanity
In the name of democracy, supreme power is vested unto the people in this insane state instead of God
A future re-created, to be ruled by man, is one of isolation and despair
Returning the leadership back into God will allow mankind to achieve its original collective goal
Which is union with God
Ideas contrary to this goal should not be blamed or persecuted - just simply ignored
.
Sign o' the times mess with your mind
Hurry before it's too late
Let's fall in love, get married, have a baby
We'll call him Nate
If it's a boy

.

again, and to jdcxc the question is not if prince is/was polical or if Prince made political songs/commentary. Darknight1 specically said 'not aggressively political' and the idea that Prince is a political figure, so a folk singer and a rapper has nothing to do with this.

Of course the discussion of “Chemtrails” is political. It also falls into the specific Black arts tradition of sociopolitical discourse/expression that utilizes conspiracy theories as metaphors for real governmental oppression (see Dick Gregory, Gil Scott Heron or Prince’s “The War”). What is “aggressively political?” Give me some artists.

chemtrails falls under 'conspiracy' and that area of thought, which is some kind of religion in itself

Darknight1 answered it in another post I believe

[Edited 3/18/19 5:29am]

violetcrush said:

Right. First musician/artist to sing about the AIDS crisis and make it a hit on radio.

Cyndi Lauper recorded Boy Blue around the same time, but that wasnt callingout the epidemic exactly the same way.

Also it's important to note that even by 87 the lyrics felt out of step and it's hard to believe but...dated. Crack was a punchline even then, and sadly so too was a lot of talk of AIDS. SOTT played on the cringey side for some people. I'm sure in other parts of the US that wasn't the case. He also delivers those lyrics so clearly...I think Prince lost some people with that one despite critics calling it a masterpiece.

lavendardrummachine said:

violetcrush said:

Right. First musician/artist to sing about the AIDS crisis and make it a hit on radio.

Cyndi Lauper recorded Boy Blue around the same time, but that wasnt callingout the epidemic exactly the same way.

Also it's important to note that even by 87 the lyrics felt out of step and it's hard to believe but...dated. Crack was a punchline even then, and sadly so too was a lot of talk of AIDS. SOTT played on the cringey side for some people. I'm sure in other parts of the US that wasn't the case. He also delivers those lyrics so clearly...I think Prince lost some people with that one despite critics calling it a masterpiece.

He lost people, possibly because they didn't want the bigger issues intermixed with their pop music listening?? U2 had the number one album that year, and they also sang about important political issues, however, I guess less blatantly. They were able to mask it more in their lyrics and music.

*

Not sure how the lyrics were dated by 1987?? He sang of all things that were happening at that time. Again, he first recorded the song Summer of 1986, but it was not released until March of 1987.

*

Yes, AIDS had been recognized, but it would be several years before it was considered a "crisis". It was the late 80's into early 90's when everyone was running to get tested and thousands in the gay community were dying. The film Philadelphia came out in '93 - one of the first major motion pictures to cover the AIDS crisis and homophobia. By the early 90's, Prince was even writing songs about making sure the women were "clean" - as in had tested negative for disease.

*

Nancy Reagan's "just say no" campaign was also in full swing in the mid 80's. Unfortunately, most were NOT just saying no to drugs. It was the lamest anti-drug campaign and was heavily criticized for being completely out of touch with what was really needed to decrease drug use.

*

Gang violence had become a big problem, especially in LA. From southcentralhistory.com:

*

1980s

The 1980s saw a huge increase in the number of gangs. All of the ideas of the Black Panther Party and the Brown Berets were completely lost by this time. The gangs were exclusively focused on territory and crime. The beginning of the Crack Epidemic only worsened the effect, as the number of gang sets increased into the hundreds and spread out throughout the country. The neighborhoods of South Central became very separated at this time. In many areas, each block had a different gang, and some blocks had more than one gang on them.

*

1990s

As the influence of gangs spiraled out of control with the introduction of drugs to the community, the early 1990s saw some of the highest homicide rates ever. However, there was a major drop in homicides after the LA Riots. Much of this has to do with the gang truce that was established among the projects in Watts. In 1993, there was also a major truce among Latino gangs to end drive-bys, and the killing of innocent people. Although the 1990s began very badly, it ended with a decline in the number of gang-related deaths.

*

The space shuttle Challenger had exploded on take-off in February of 1986. It was a devastating blow to the NASA program. I watched it explode as it was happening. Horrific, and I still remember exactly where I was and every detail of that moment.

*

So again - not really sure what pieces of his lyrics were dated or not relevant when the song was recorded and released??

violetcrush said:

lavendardrummachine said:

Cyndi Lauper recorded Boy Blue around the same time, but that wasnt callingout the epidemic exactly the same way.

Also it's important to note that even by 87 the lyrics felt out of step and it's hard to believe but...dated. Crack was a punchline even then, and sadly so too was a lot of talk of AIDS. SOTT played on the cringey side for some people. I'm sure in other parts of the US that wasn't the case. He also delivers those lyrics so clearly...I think Prince lost some people with that one despite critics calling it a masterpiece.

He lost people, possibly because they didn't want the bigger issues intermixed with their pop music listening?? U2 had the number one album that year, and they also sang about important political issues, however, I guess less blatantly. They were able to mask it more in their lyrics and music.

*

Not sure how the lyrics were dated by 1987?? He sang of all things that were happening at that time. Again, he first recorded the song Summer of 1986, but it was not released until March of 1987.

*

Yes, AIDS had been recognized, but it would be several years before it was considered a "crisis". It was the late 80's into early 90's when everyone was running to get tested and thousands in the gay community were dying. The film Philadelphia came out in '93 - one of the first major motion pictures to cover the AIDS crisis and homophobia. By the early 90's, Prince was even writing songs about making sure the women were "clean" - as in had tested negative for disease.

*

Nancy Reagan's "just say no" campaign was also in full swing in the mid 80's. Unfortunately, most were NOT just saying no to drugs. It was the lamest anti-drug campaign and was heavily criticized for being completely out of touch with what was really needed to decrease drug use.

*

Gang violence had become a big problem, especially in LA. From southcentralhistory.com:

*

1980s

The 1980s saw a huge increase in the number of gangs. All of the ideas of the Black Panther Party and the Brown Berets were completely lost by this time. The gangs were exclusively focused on territory and crime. The beginning of the Crack Epidemic only worsened the effect, as the number of gang sets increased into the hundreds and spread out throughout the country. The neighborhoods of South Central became very separated at this time. In many areas, each block had a different gang, and some blocks had more than one gang on them.

*

1990s

As the influence of gangs spiraled out of control with the introduction of drugs to the community, the early 1990s saw some of the highest homicide rates ever. However, there was a major drop in homicides after the LA Riots. Much of this has to do with the gang truce that was established among the projects in Watts. In 1993, there was also a major truce among Latino gangs to end drive-bys, and the killing of innocent people. Although the 1990s began very badly, it ended with a decline in the number of gang-related deaths.

*

The space shuttle Challenger had exploded on take-off in February of 1986. It was a devastating blow to the NASA program. I watched it explode as it was happening. Horrific, and I still remember exactly where I was and every detail of that moment.

*

So again - not really sure what pieces of his lyrics were dated or not relevant when the song was recorded and released??

I don't see how U2 masked anything, their album title was WAR and then the song Sunday Bloody Sunday. U2, to me, have always been political.

I agree, I don't think P's lyrics were dated either. P knew what was going on, P sang about it, he wasn't a political figure, but some of his songs were political.

PennyPurple said:

War was before U2’s mass explosion on Top 40 radio. Joshua Tree was much tamer in terms of any political message. JT is the album that pushed them into mainstream popularity. Prior to that they were only being played on alternative music stations.

violetcrush said:

War was before U2’s mass explosion on Top 40 radio.

.

Maybe in the US... New Year's Day and Sunday Bloody Sunday were huge and were in constant heavy rotation on the radio.

mediumdry said:

violetcrush said:

War was before U2’s mass explosion on Top 40 radio.

.

Maybe in the US... New Year's Day and Sunday Bloody Sunday were huge and were in constant heavy rotation on the radio.

They were on heavy play in the US too. Heavy, heavy play.

mediumdry said:

Yes, their audience grew in the US with Sunday Bloody Sunday, but only a few progressive radio stations were playing the songs. Once JT hit ALL stations were playing everything.
[Edited 3/19/19 9:03am]