PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

I always thought it was ironic how he had what i just called a "conserative streak" supporting reagan in interviews, giving him a shoutout and saying he didn't want him to get shot before he got to meet him and writing songs like Free. That conservative streak only got more and more dominant as he got older but it was always there.

Oh he definitely had "right-leaning" viewpoints with regard to certain areas. Alan Leeds stated after having some lengthy conversations with him he was like, oh man, this guy is a Republican!!

ya, a true gemini, no one remembers but he was the most unlikely supporter of tipper gore's stickering of albums even though he partially caused it.

PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

ya, a true gemini, no one remembers but he was the most unlikely supporter of tipper gore's stickering of albums even though he partially caused it.

Well, I think more than anything back then he just enjoyed the extra attention and higher sales due to even more youngsters finding and buying his records because of those stickers Later on he definitely supported the non-graphic and non-violent lyrics.

I think this was around the graffiti bridge era when he said it, it was just a little political thing, it dissapeared like all the rest of them. no stickers today are they? I wouldn't know, i never buy new albums from a store anymore.

PeteSilas said:

PeteSilas said:

jdcxc said:

You’re an idiot. Prince was never politically conservative.

.

Now that's rewriting history....

.

Regardless, it seems hardly anyone here shares my criticism of the lyrics of this song. That's ok, Prince fans never agree on anything.

.

To me, Prince's politically conservative views were a letdown (see the song America for another example, there's many more later on, but I stopped being interested in the lyrics) and quite a few things he said were simply factually wrong (and for the record, I'm not a pothead, though I did try it back in the 80's). That stuff bothers me, guess it doesn't bother you, fair enough.

.

It really isn't that much of a stretch from Sign Of The Times to chemtrails...

mediumdry said:

jdcxc said:

You’re an idiot. Prince was never politically conservative.

.

Now that's rewriting history....

.

Regardless, it seems hardly anyone here shares my criticism of the lyrics of this song. That's ok, Prince fans never agree on anything.

.

To me, Prince's politically conservative views were a letdown (see the song America for another example, there's many more later on, but I stopped being interested in the lyrics) and quite a few things he said were simply factually wrong (and for the record, I'm not a pothead, though I did try it back in the 80's). That stuff bothers me, guess it doesn't bother you, fair enough.

.

It really isn't that much of a stretch from Sign Of The Times to chemtrails...

either way, what would most of us know at the time, i was 18 and stupid, i just wanted good tunes, it would be a couple years before i even began to criticize Prince in my own mind although i never liked the stories of how he treated people

A brilliant song from a brilliant album. Flawless.

violetcrush said:

...

In France, a skinny man died of a big disease with a little name (AIDS)
By chance his girlfriend came across a needle and soon she did the same

^^ talking about the AIDS crisis - WAY before mass media was focusing on it

*

...
In September, my cousin tried reefer for the very first time
Now he's doing horse, it's June, unh

^^ talking about the heroine epidemic back then - way ahead of his time as it's now one of the leading causes of death

*

...

I love "Sign O' The Times", too.

And of course I like the lyrics.

But it's not prophetic in any way, come on...

It's just about what was in the news at that time (in a well done way, of course).

Mass media started talking about Aids in 1985 when Rock Hudson was diagnosed with it.

And the heroin epidemic that is happening right now in the USA is based on painkiller-addictions caused by the pharmaceutical industry that talked addiction-problems down for too long.

This is a - relatively - new problem.

Prince didn't see it coming.

Otherwise he'd still be alive.

To me the "Sign O' The Times"-lyrics are just the compensation for stupid stuff like like "Ronnie talk to Russia"...

mediumdry said:

jdcxc said:

mediumdry said:

.

Now that's rewriting history....

.

Regardless, it seems hardly anyone here shares my criticism of the lyrics of this song. That's ok, Prince fans never agree on anything.

.

To me, Prince's politically conservative views were a letdown (see the song America for another example, there's many more later on, but I stopped being interested in the lyrics) and quite a few things he said were simply factually wrong (and for the record, I'm not a pothead, though I did try it back in the 80's). That stuff bothers me, guess it doesn't bother you, fair enough.

.

It really isn't that much of a stretch from Sign Of The Times to chemtrails...

Do you understand the difference between political, social and personal conservatism? He was never a capital C Conservative. His politics were not informed by the Republican Party. You are forgetting he has some of the most radical lyrics of any pop star ever...Radical Man, Avalanche, The War, Dear Mr. Man, Dreamer, Family Name, etc. Expressing some patriotism while portraying our ills (America) is not conservative (See any Democrat speak).

.

Political and social, sure. What is personal conservatism? Prince moved from social conservative to reactionary in the Rainbow Children period, for instance. If you are outside of the US, it is fairly clear that Democrats and Republicans are labels on mostly similar conservative viewpoints, although there seems to be an interesting development in the Democratic party with centrists like Bernie and the lady from New York (can't think of the name right now).

.

As far as Prince's political views, from what I can see from interviews, books and records, he was leaning toward the Republican side, although early in his career, he had some liberal views too, mostly with regards to dress sense and sex. Later on, he took US black issues into his views (mostly associated with the Democrats), which he mostly downplayed earlier in his career.

.

By the way, liberal, of course, is not directly a political direction, it depends on which views are liberal. For instance, the Dutch right wing party, VVD, is know as "the liberals", as they want liberal economic rules for corporations. Prince, in this regard, was socially liberal early in his career (and socially conservative later in his career).

.

As to politically, I've mostly seen libertarian and conservative viewpoints coming from him (see also America, really..pledging allegiance is good, communism is dictatorial, ), along with a very caring social engagement.

.

As to the song Sign Of The Time, I love the song. I don't care that his opinions might differ from mine (if I did, I wouldn't find much joy with Prince as an atheist, or as a Prince fan on the org ), it's the factual mistakes and juxtaposing unrelated topics as some deep statement that annoy me.

.

Thanks for the respectful reply, by the way. Peace.

BlueShakooo said:

To me the "Sign O' The Times"-lyrics are just the compensation for stupid stuff like like "Ronnie talk to Russia"...

.

Hey! That song was prophetic! "Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"

jdcxc said:

PeteSilas said:

I always thought it was ironic how he had what i just called a "conserative streak" supporting reagan in interviews, giving him a shoutout and saying he didn't want him to get shot before he got to meet him and writing songs like Free. That conservative streak only got more and more dominant as he got older but it was always there.

You’re an idiot. Prince was never politically conservative. He was misquoted in ONE interview about Reagan. He sarcastically stated that Reagan was viewed favorably by ppl who thought he had “balls” He then rebuked the misquote in “Paisley Park”. “Whoever said that elephants Were stronger than mules?”

The incessant need to put people in a dem or con political category is at the root of our issues as a society. The 2 party system has led to simpleton 2 party labeling/thinking by the masses. This isnt directed at you or anyone in particular, fyi. Just me complaining.

mediumdry said:

BlueShakooo said:

violetcrush said:

...

In France, a skinny man died of a big disease with a little name (AIDS)
By chance his girlfriend came across a needle and soon she did the same

^^ talking about the AIDS crisis - WAY before mass media was focusing on it

*

...
In September, my cousin tried reefer for the very first time
Now he's doing horse, it's June, unh

^^ talking about the heroine epidemic back then - way ahead of his time as it's now one of the leading causes of death

*

...

I love "Sign O' The Times", too.

And of course I like the lyrics.

But it's not prophetic in any way, come on...

It's just about what was in the news at that time (in a well done way, of course).

Mass media started talking about Aids in 1985 when Rock Hudson was diagnosed with it.

And the heroin epidemic that is happening right now in the USA is based on painkiller-addictions caused by the pharmaceutical industry that talked addiction-problems down for too long.

This is a - relatively - new problem.

Prince didn't see it coming.

Otherwise he'd still be alive.

To me the "Sign O' The Times"-lyrics are just the compensation for stupid stuff like like "Ronnie talk to Russia"...

BlueShakoo said:

Mass media started talking about Aids in 1985 when Rock Hudson was diagnosed with it.

*

Yes, it was covered in the media in 1985 when Rock Hudson announced he had the disease. However, there was much unknown about it, and people were hearing the acronym AIDS for the first time. At that point most thought it was only contracted through anal sex. It wasn't until they made the connection between tainted blood transfusions and heroine needles that they really began focusing on the problem - and that was a couple of years later. Also, remember that Prince first wrote and recorded the song Summer of 1986. Elizbeth Glazer, the wife of actor Paul Michael Glazer, brought major media attention to it, because she and both of their young daughters ended up dying from her tainted blood transfusion from an operation she had prior to her kids being born. Horrible tragedy. Another teenage girl brought major attention via the media when she announced she contracted AIDS from tainted instruments at her Dentist's office. Then, by the early 90's, so many gay men were dying and the epidemic had spread through Africa like wildfire.

*

BlueShakoo said:

And the heroin epidemic that is happening right now in the USA is based on painkiller-addictions caused by the pharmaceutical industry that talked addiction-problems down for too long.

This is a - relatively - new problem.

Prince didn't see it coming.

Otherwise he'd still be alive.

*

You couldn't be more wrong with these statements. Heroin was fast becoming a huge problem back in the 80's - along with Crack cocaine. Read the history. Heroin had been a leading cause of death in the USA LONG before the Opioid crisis came into the mix. Heroin and Opioids are two separate drugs. Both are extremely addictive and deadly. However, Opioids can be managed if taken correctly and for a limited time for temporary pain such as a recovery from a surgical procedure. It is when they are taken regularly for permanent pain that they become highly addictive and dangerous.

*

Prince was using Opioids for everyday pain and became addicted. His addiction had nothing to do with Heroin.

*

From the National Institute of Health web site:

*

"All opioids are chemically related and interact with opioid receptors on nerve cells in the body and brain. Opioid pain relievers are generally safe when taken for a short time and as prescribed by a doctor, but because they produce euphoria in addition to pain relief, they can be misused (taken in a different way or in a larger quantity than prescribed, or taken without a doctor’s prescription). Regular use—even as prescribed by a doctor—can lead to dependence and, when misused, opioid pain relievers can lead to addiction, overdose incidents, and deaths."

DarkKnight1 said:

jdcxc said:

PeteSilas said: You’re an idiot. Prince was never politically conservative. He was misquoted in ONE interview about Reagan. He sarcastically stated that Reagan was viewed favorably by ppl who thought he had “balls” He then rebuked the misquote in “Paisley Park”. “Whoever said that elephants Were stronger than mules?”

The incessant need to put people in a dem or con political category is at the root of our issues as a society. The 2 party system has led to simpleton 2 party labeling/thinking by the masses. This isnt directed at you or anyone in particular, fyi. Just me complaining.

Prince WAS more "conservative" with his political views -at least in some ways - back in the 80's though - Pete is correct on that. Look at his songs:

*

Free

Be glad that U r free - Free 2 change your mind
Free 2 go most anywhere, anytime
Be glad that U r free - There's many a man who's not
Be glad 4 what U have baby, what you've got
Be glad 4 what you've got

*

America

Aristocrats on a mountain climb
Making money, losing time
Communism is just a word
But if the government turn over
It'll be the only word that's heard

*

Jimmy Nothing never went to school
They made him pledge allegiance
He said it wasn't cool
Nothing made Jimmy proud
Now Jimmy lives on a mushroom cloud

*

Pop Life

What's the matter with your life
Is the poverty bringing you down?
Is the mailman jerking you 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?

Pop life
Everybody needs a thrill
Pop life
We all got a space to fill
Pop life
Everybody can't be on top
But life it ain't real funky
Unless it's got that pop
Dig it

*

I think back then Prince's view point was more about working hard for what you want to achieve - as he had done for himself. He grew up without money, so I don't think he was considering how others could have had it much worse than he did. I think he saw and focused on that in later years. I think his mindset may have been more like "hey, if I can do it, anybody can."

[Edited 3/7/19 14:49pm]

violetcrush said:

violetcrush said:

*

BlueShakoo said:

And the heroin epidemic that is happening right now in the USA is based on painkiller-addictions caused by the pharmaceutical industry that talked addiction-problems down for too long.

This is a - relatively - new problem.

Prince didn't see it coming.

Otherwise he'd still be alive.

*

You couldn't be more wrong with these statements. Heroin was fast becoming a huge problem back in the 80's - along with Crack cocaine. Read the history. Heroin had been a leading cause of death in the USA LONG before the Opioid crisis came into the mix. Heroin and Opioids are two separate drugs. Both are extremely addictive and deadly. However, Opioids can be managed if taken correctly and for a limited time for temporary pain such as a recovery from a surgical procedure. It is when they are taken regularly for permanent pain that they become highly addictive and dangerous.

*

Prince was using Opioids for everyday pain and became addicted. His addiction had nothing to do with Heroin.

*

From the National Institute of Health web site:

*

"All opioids are chemically related and interact with opioid receptors on nerve cells in the body and brain. Opioid pain relievers are generally safe when taken for a short time and as prescribed by a doctor, but because they produce euphoria in addition to pain relief, they can be misused (taken in a different way or in a larger quantity than prescribed, or taken without a doctor’s prescription). Regular use—even as prescribed by a doctor—can lead to dependence and, when misused, opioid pain relievers can lead to addiction, overdose incidents, and deaths."

I'm not saying that there hadn't been a drug problem in the 80's.

I'm saying that the epidemic quality of it today is based on painkiller-addictions caused by the pharmaceutical industry that talked addiction-problems (of their products) down for too long.

I think it's commonly known that millions of painkiller-addicts (in the USA) use heroine because it is an affordable substitute to pills on the black market.

Prince didn't need substitutes, he had enough money.

BlueShakooo said:

violetcrush said:

*

BlueShakoo said:

And the heroin epidemic that is happening right now in the USA is based on painkiller-addictions caused by the pharmaceutical industry that talked addiction-problems down for too long.

This is a - relatively - new problem.

Prince didn't see it coming.

Otherwise he'd still be alive.

*

You couldn't be more wrong with these statements. Heroin was fast becoming a huge problem back in the 80's - along with Crack cocaine. Read the history. Heroin had been a leading cause of death in the USA LONG before the Opioid crisis came into the mix. Heroin and Opioids are two separate drugs. Both are extremely addictive and deadly. However, Opioids can be managed if taken correctly and for a limited time for temporary pain such as a recovery from a surgical procedure. It is when they are taken regularly for permanent pain that they become highly addictive and dangerous.

*

Prince was using Opioids for everyday pain and became addicted. His addiction had nothing to do with Heroin.

*

From the National Institute of Health web site:

*

"All opioids are chemically related and interact with opioid receptors on nerve cells in the body and brain. Opioid pain relievers are generally safe when taken for a short time and as prescribed by a doctor, but because they produce euphoria in addition to pain relief, they can be misused (taken in a different way or in a larger quantity than prescribed, or taken without a doctor’s prescription). Regular use—even as prescribed by a doctor—can lead to dependence and, when misused, opioid pain relievers can lead to addiction, overdose incidents, and deaths."

I'm not saying that there hadn't been a drug problem in the 80's.

I'm saying that the epidemic quality of it today is based on painkiller-addictions caused by the pharmaceutical industry that talked addiction-problems (of their products) down for too long.

I think it's commonly known that millions of painkiller-addicts (in the USA) use heroine because it is an affordable substitute to pills on the black market.

Prince didn't need substitutes, he had enough money.

Except that, as I wrote in my last post, Heroin has been a problem decades longer than Opioids - in terms of beinga number one killer. The Pharm companies downplaying the effects and dangers of using the stronger painkillers for regular use is a relatively newer problem.

*

It may be true that those who have become addicted to the painkiller meds are now moving to Heroin. However, Heroin was a major problem long before this started.

jdcxc said:

violetcrush said:

Prince WAS more "conservative" with his political views -at least in some ways - back in the 80's though - Pete is correct on that. Look at his songs:

*

Free

Be glad that U r free - Free 2 change your mind
Free 2 go most anywhere, anytime
Be glad that U r free - There's many a man who's not
Be glad 4 what U have baby, what you've got
Be glad 4 what you've got

*

America

Aristocrats on a mountain climb
Making money, losing time
Communism is just a word
But if the government turn over
It'll be the only word that's heard

*

Jimmy Nothing never went to school
They made him pledge allegiance
He said it wasn't cool
Nothing made Jimmy proud
Now Jimmy lives on a mushroom cloud

*

Pop Life

What's the matter with your life
Is the poverty bringing you down?
Is the mailman jerking you 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?

Pop life
Everybody needs a thrill
Pop life
We all got a space to fill
Pop life
Everybody can't be on top
But life it ain't real funky
Unless it's got that pop
Dig it

*

I think back then Prince's view point was more about working hard for what you want to achieve - as he had done for himself. He grew up without money, so I don't think he was considering how others could have had it much worse than he did. I think he saw and focused on that in later years. I think his mindset may have been more like "hey, if I can do it, anybody can."

[Edited 3/7/19 14:49pm]

How are any of those lyrics “conservative?” U can b patriotic or anti-communist and still be progressive/liberal/Democrat. In those same songs he also critiques poverty, corporate greed, etc.

He does critique poverty and corporate greed, but I don't think he was focusing on the fact that many had it much worse than even he had it growing up. In other words, it wasn't as simple as "go to school, work hard and get a job..". There are factors which prevent people from making it down that path.

*

No question that by the 90's he was quickly becoming anti-government, and had a lot to say about social injustices and racial conflict/issues in America.

BlueShakooo said:

violetcrush said:

...

In France, a skinny man died of a big disease with a little name (AIDS)
By chance his girlfriend came across a needle and soon she did the same

^^ talking about the AIDS crisis - WAY before mass media was focusing on it

*

...
In September, my cousin tried reefer for the very first time
Now he's doing horse, it's June, unh

^^ talking about the heroine epidemic back then - way ahead of his time as it's now one of the leading causes of death

*

...

I love "Sign O' The Times", too.

And of course I like the lyrics.

But it's not prophetic in any way, come on...

It's just about what was in the news at that time (in a well done way, of course).

Mass media started talking about Aids in 1985 when Rock Hudson was diagnosed with it.

And the heroin epidemic that is happening right now in the USA is based on painkiller-addictions caused by the pharmaceutical industry that talked addiction-problems down for too long.

This is a - relatively - new problem.

Prince didn't see it coming.

Otherwise he'd still be alive.

To me the "Sign O' The Times"-lyrics are just the compensation for stupid stuff like like "Ronnie talk to Russia"...

I agree with you Blue. It was just stuff happening at the time.

There were some rumblings before 85 though of AIDS, although Reagan denied there was a problem.

Heroin use had taken a dive when Meth came along. It has risen again because of the opioid crisis.

PennyPurple said:

Heroin use had taken a dive when Meth came along. It has risen again because of the opioid crisis.

I think that may be true for some areas, but I remember watching more recent docu's on how bad Heroin has gotten across the US.

*

From the CDC:

Heroin-Related Overdose Deaths

As heroin use has increased, so have heroin-related overdose deaths:

• During 2017, over 15,000 people died from drug overdoses involving heroin in the United States, a rate of almost 5 deaths for every 100,000 Americans.6
• Heroin-related overdose deaths increased five-fold from 2010 to 2017.5
• From 2016-2017, heroin overdose death rates remained stable.6
• In 2017, males aged 25-44 had the highest heroin death rate at 14.8 per 100,000, which was a decrease of -4.5% from 2016.

PennyPurple said:

BlueShakooo said:

I love "Sign O' The Times", too.

And of course I like the lyrics.

But it's not prophetic in any way, come on...

It's just about what was in the news at that time (in a well done way, of course).

Mass media started talking about Aids in 1985 when Rock Hudson was diagnosed with it.

And the heroin epidemic that is happening right now in the USA is based on painkiller-addictions caused by the pharmaceutical industry that talked addiction-problems down for too long.

This is a - relatively - new problem.

Prince didn't see it coming.

Otherwise he'd still be alive.

To me the "Sign O' The Times"-lyrics are just the compensation for stupid stuff like like "Ronnie talk to Russia"...

I agree with you Blue. It was just stuff happening at the time.

There were some rumblings before 85 though of AIDS, although Reagan denied there was a problem.

The Reagan administration turned their back on this disease, which was in the early stages of becoming an epidemic. I will never forgive those in power for this stupid, idiotic decision. Too many people died because of this decision. Nancy Reagan was close friends with Rock Hudson and she literally refused to let him into the White House after his disclosure that he had contacted AIDS. So if there's not a problem then why not let Rock come and visit and ask the President to do something? I laugh when people talk about what a great President Reagan was. A great President doesn't ignore a disease that could have decimated the world's population.

kingricefan said:

PennyPurple said:

I agree with you Blue. It was just stuff happening at the time.

There were some rumblings before 85 though of AIDS, although Reagan denied there was a problem.

The Reagan administration turned their back on this disease, which was in the early stages of becoming an epidemic. I will never forgive those in power for this stupid, idiotic decision. Too many people died because of this decision. Nancy Reagan was close friends with Rock Hudson and she literally refused to let him into the White House after his disclosure that he had contacted AIDS. So if there's not a problem then why not let Rock come and visit and ask the President to do something? I laugh when people talk about what a great President Reagan was. A great President doesn't ignore a disease that could have decimated the world's population.

Yes, yes and yes!!

PennyPurple said:

kingricefan said:

The Reagan administration turned their back on this disease, which was in the early stages of becoming an epidemic. I will never forgive those in power for this stupid, idiotic decision. Too many people died because of this decision. Nancy Reagan was close friends with Rock Hudson and she literally refused to let him into the White House after his disclosure that he had contacted AIDS. So if there's not a problem then why not let Rock come and visit and ask the President to do something? I laugh when people talk about what a great President Reagan was. A great President doesn't ignore a disease that could have decimated the world's population.

Yes, yes and yes!!

it's strange seeing people who idealize reagan and totally forget how unpopular he was at the end of his second term. I've seen people i grew up with put pics of ronnie on their facebooks in a "good old days" sort of fashion which is actually kind of sad because i really don't think they were good for very many people. the aids thing was almost like the middle ages, people were acting so crazy and hysterical mostly because it was such a deadly and unknown quantity, we couldn't find out facts quickly enough to outrun the public paranoia.

PennyPurple said: