darlingnikkkki said:

I love that we got the movie that Prince wanted to make.

Same!

SoulAlive said:

violetcrush said:

A stint on Miami Vice does not an actor make - sorry, but it's true Kristin was a good actress - even early on, but it was a bad script and there was zero sexual chemistry between her and Prince. She certainly had it later with Ralph Fiennes in The English Patient. Wooo-eee those scenes were on fire!!

but to be honest,though....most of the roles in a Prince movie are played by non-actors Applonia wasn’t a real actress and neither was Ingrid Chavez.Heck,Prince wasn’t even a real actor,lol

Right, which is why the films - with the exception of PR which was mainly based around the musical performances, but also had an experienced film crew - Writer/Director - tanked at the box office

*

Per the Biogrpahies, they had to re-shoot about 30% of Apollonia's scenes because her acting was so bad. The original stunt double for Prince was fired, because he told a tabloid reporter she couldn't act her way out of a paper bag - or something similar to that. Also, remember, with most of the heavier scenes in PR, except the basement scene where Prince did a great job, the actors were experienced. The role of the Mother and Father were played by experienced actors.

[Edited 1/30/19


[Edited 1/31/19 11:11am]

Not a great movie, but Im glad it exists. A million times better than GB, but still not great.

violetcrush said:

Adding pointless emojis...the standard "snarky" Org response after a valid point is made

Ethos said:

The world seemed to be his oyster, then he decided to make one of the worst films since Plan 9 from Outer Space. What was he thinking??

I think that,the major success of Purple Rain really boosted his ego and he rushed into this project too soon.Should have taken more time and came up with something better.

SoulAlive said:

Ethos said:

The world seemed to be his oyster, then he decided to make one of the worst films since Plan 9 from Outer Space. What was he thinking??

I think that,the major success of Purple Rain really boosted his ego and he rushed into this project too soon.Should have taken more time and came up with something better.

It did seem quite rushed. Although, when you think about it, the music and style of The Family album somewhat resembled the theme for UTCM, so the idea actually may have been in his head a year prior to the start of filming. However, as Susannah Melvoin stated, unlike Purple Rain, he had no professional screen writer or completed script when he started shooting. He just had the handwritten notebook with various scenes scribbled on to paper. Then he fired the person who actually was a Director by trade, and it seems it went downhill from there

SoulAlive said:

Ethos said:

The world seemed to be his oyster, then he decided to make one of the worst films since Plan 9 from Outer Space. What was he thinking??

I think that,the major success of Purple Rain really boosted his ego and he rushed into this project too soon.Should have taken more time and came up with something better.

The idea was OK but the execution and dramatic (as well as the comedic) bits were just dreadful. The leads were unsympathetic and thinly written. We're supposead to like Tracy just because he's Prince and he's soooo coool and, by proxy, supposed to like Mary because she likes him.

If Christopher had been written as truly "hard luck" and down and out but as a gifted street musician and artist with a good heart we'd be half way there. Then you give Mary something to do other than react to her "uptight" parents (for basically no reason) and have Christopher actually win her over by being vulnerable, cute and charaming instead of preening, arrogant and rude.

The whole thing is kind of a mess and nothing can save that script which is in deperate need of a re-write. The lack of some actual music front and center is unforgiveable. Imagine Prince showing a more grounded, earthy side to his art that would be in direct contrast to the flash of Purple Rain but no less compelling where he could demonstrate a totally different aspect of his talent. Acoustic guitar and piano numbers and something like an "Old Friends 4 Sale" instrumental that actually fit into the script.

I've seen shittier movies but that doesn't make this one not shitty.

herb4 said:

SoulAlive said:

I think that,the major success of Purple Rain really boosted his ego and he rushed into this project too soon.Should have taken more time and came up with something better.

The idea was OK but the execution and dramatic (as well as the comedic) bits were just dreadful. The leads were unsympathetic and thinly written. We're supposead to like Tracy just because he's Prince and he's soooo coool and, by proxy, supposed to like Mary because she likes him.

If Christopher had been written as truly "hard luck" and down and out but as a gifted street musician and artist with a good heart we'd be half way there. Then you give Mary something to do other than react to her "uptight" parents (for basically no reason) and have Christopher actually win her over by being vulnerable, cute and charaming instead of preening, arrogant and rude.

The whole thing is kind of a mess and nothing can save that script which is in deperate need of a re-write. The lack of some actual music front and center is unforgiveable. Imagine Prince showing a more grounded, earthy side to his art that would be in direct contrast to the flash of Purple Rain but no less compelling where he could demonstrate a totally different aspect of his talent. Acoustic guitar and piano numbers and something like an "Old Friends 4 Sale" instrumental that actually fit into the script.

I've seen shittier movies but that doesn't make this one not shitty.

Right - there was no character development whatsoever, and the character traits that did come across for both leads (shallow/materialistic gigolo and spoiled/stuck-up girl) didn't allow for any type of sympathy or empathy from the viewer. At least with PR, even though some of "The Kid's" behaviors were not likeable, he showed enough of a "human" and vulnerable side for the viewer to really care about him and to root for him in the end.

violetcrush said:

herb4 said:

The idea was OK but the execution and dramatic (as well as the comedic) bits were just dreadful. The leads were unsympathetic and thinly written. We're supposead to like Tracy just because he's Prince and he's soooo coool and, by proxy, supposed to like Mary because she likes him.

If Christopher had been written as truly "hard luck" and down and out but as a gifted street musician and artist with a good heart we'd be half way there. Then you give Mary something to do other than react to her "uptight" parents (for basically no reason) and have Christopher actually win her over by being vulnerable, cute and charaming instead of preening, arrogant and rude.

The whole thing is kind of a mess and nothing can save that script which is in deperate need of a re-write. The lack of some actual music front and center is unforgiveable. Imagine Prince showing a more grounded, earthy side to his art that would be in direct contrast to the flash of Purple Rain but no less compelling where he could demonstrate a totally different aspect of his talent. Acoustic guitar and piano numbers and something like an "Old Friends 4 Sale" instrumental that actually fit into the script.

I've seen shittier movies but that doesn't make this one not shitty.

Right - there was no character development whatsoever, and the character traits that did come across for both leads (shallow/materialistic gigolo and spoiled/stuck-up girl) didn't allow for any type of sympathy or empathy from the viewer. At least with PR, even though some of "The Kid's" behaviors were not likeable, he showed enough of a "human" and vulnerable side for the viewer to really care about him and to root for him in the end.

They also showed WHY he was like that due to his fucked up home life and his struggle to break the chains/mold and not be like that. Plus, and still in line with my points, his emotions and struggles were manifested in his song writing and his performances so we were SHOWN why we should care.

Mary's parents were made out to be these unreasonable assholes but I could see why they didn't want Mary dicking around with Christopher either

Purple Rain - Breakout film for Hall of Fame rock star that defined most of a decade and musically influenced a generation (and beyond) and is among the best "rock" films of all time.

Under the Cherry Moon - The film that "discovered" the beautiful and talented Kristin Scott Thomas.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I still ended up liking UTCM over the PR over the decades.

emesem said:

frazetta said:

Terrible movie compared to Purple Rain. Only to be topped by the more atrocious GB.

That's my guess anyways. Both have aged horrifically complared to PR.

.

On the contrary, UTCM has age beautifully when compared to Purple Rain. PR is a great time capsule that freezes a moment in mid-'80s pop culture for all time.

.

However, UTCM offers a far more timeless vision thanks to the B&W, French setting, and generally "retro/old Hollywood" look.

.

PR, with all its big hair and new wave fashions has aged quite poorly -- in terms of feeling like a product of its era.

.

UTCM avoids that by embracing an aesthetic that doesn't link it to the era in which it was released.

.

PR - good as it is - is a formulaic "rising star" jukebox musical. UTCM reaches for something else entirely and - like it or not on a presonal level - exudes ambition on a scope unseen in the "safer" PR.

.

Someone else said that UTCM is of interest "only to Prince fans" and I think this is untrue. To offer a bit of anecdotal evidence (surely not representative on a wide scale, but still worth sharing) I've introduced UTCM to numerous non-Prince fans who found the movie interesting at least, fascinating at best. They may not have "liked" the film in any traditional sense, but found themselves intrigued by it.

.

GB is of interest to Prince fans only, and in those terms I happen to count myself as a fan regardless of its obvious ineptitude.

.

Anyway, UTCM is, I would argue - however a minority position it may always remain, a truly good movie on its own terms. Some of the plot mechanics are quite clunky but there was an attempt by Prince (and the screenwriter) to dig deeper than the rock star bravado of PR. Prince strove for a sense of depth in GB and came up far, far shorter -- in UTCM he tapped into a rich emotional vein.

PURPLE RAIN is iconic in popular culture and popular music... The general public barely knows UTC... So in essence what has really aged better...

CAL3 said:

frazetta said:

Terrible movie compared to Purple Rain. Only to be topped by the more atrocious GB.

That's my guess anyways. Both have aged horrifically complared to PR.

.

On the contrary, UTCM has age beautifully when compared to Purple Rain. PR is a great time capsule that freezes a moment in mid-'80s pop culture for all time.

.

However, UTCM offers a far more timeless vision thanks to the B&W, French setting, and generally "retro/old Hollywood" look.

.

PR, with all its big hair and new wave fashions has aged quite poorly -- in terms of feeling like a product of its era.

.

UTCM avoids that by embracing an aesthetic that doesn't link it to the era in which it was released.

.

PR - good as it is - is a formulaic "rising star" jukebox musical. UTCM reaches for something else entirely and - like it or not on a presonal level - exudes ambition on a scope unseen in the "safer" PR.

.

Someone else said that UTCM is of interest "only to Prince fans" and I think this is untrue. To offer a bit of anecdotal evidence (surely not representative on a wide scale, but still worth sharing) I've introduced UTCM to numerous non-Prince fans who found the movie interesting at least, fascinating at best. They may not have "liked" the film in any traditional sense, but found themselves intrigued by it.

.

GB is of interest to Prince fans only, and in those terms I happen to count myself as a fan regardless of its obvious ineptitude.

.

Anyway, UTCM is, I would argue - however a minority position it may always remain, a truly good movie on its own terms. Some of the plot mechanics are quite clunky but there was an attempt by Prince (and the screenwriter) to dig deeper than the rock star bravado of PR. Prince strove for a sense of depth in GB and came up far, far shorter -- in UTCM he tapped into a rich emotional vein.

feeluupp said:

PURPLE RAIN is iconic in popular culture and popular music... The general public barely knows UTC... So in essence what has really aged better...

.

Mainstream public awareness has no bearing on whether or not a creative work has aged well over time. Of course PR is more popular. But that's a separate issue.

[Edited 2/1/19 17:59pm]

CAL3 said:

feeluupp said:

PURPLE RAIN is iconic in popular culture and popular music... The general public barely knows UTC... So in essence what has really aged better...

.

Mainstream public awareness has no bearing on whether or not a creative work has aged well over time. Of course PR is more popular. But that's a separate issue.

[Edited 2/1/19 17:59pm]

Popular is a sparse choice of words... It's beyond popular, Purple Rain is iconic, it was a benchmark for rock movies, it was a cultural revolution, Purple Rain was more than just popular...

What has aged better... UTCM has because Purple Rain is AGELESS. Purple Rain be a fundamental staple in popular and music culture... Can't say the same about UTCM.

UTCM is basically just a Prince vanity movie....a chance for him to show off his new clothes None of the characters are really likable.It's not really a believable movie.

Purple Rain is meatier and has more substance to it.It is also relatable.It holds your interest.

CAL3 said:

.

PR - good as it is - is a formulaic "rising star" jukebox musical. UTCM reaches for something else entirely and - like it or not on a presonal level - exudes ambition on a scope unseen in the "safer" PR.

feeluupp said:

PURPLE RAIN is iconic in popular culture and popular music... The general public barely knows UTC... So in essence what has really aged better...

CAL3 said:

.

On the contrary, UTCM has age beautifully when compared to Purple Rain. PR is a great time capsule that freezes a moment in mid-'80s pop culture for all time.

.

However, UTCM offers a far more timeless vision thanks to the B&W, French setting, and generally "retro/old Hollywood" look.

.

PR, with all its big hair and new wave fashions has aged quite poorly -- in terms of feeling like a product of its era.

.

UTCM avoids that by embracing an aesthetic that doesn't link it to the era in which it was released.

.

PR - good as it is - is a formulaic "rising star" jukebox musical. UTCM reaches for something else entirely and - like it or not on a presonal level - exudes ambition on a scope unseen in the "safer" PR.

.

Someone else said that UTCM is of interest "only to Prince fans" and I think this is untrue. To offer a bit of anecdotal evidence (surely not representative on a wide scale, but still worth sharing) I've introduced UTCM to numerous non-Prince fans who found the movie interesting at least, fascinating at best. They may not have "liked" the film in any traditional sense, but found themselves intrigued by it.

.

GB is of interest to Prince fans only, and in those terms I happen to count myself as a fan regardless of its obvious ineptitude.

.

Anyway, UTCM is, I would argue - however a minority position it may always remain, a truly good movie on its own terms. Some of the plot mechanics are quite clunky but there was an attempt by Prince (and the screenwriter) to dig deeper than the rock star bravado of PR. Prince strove for a sense of depth in GB and came up far, far shorter -- in UTCM he tapped into a rich emotional vein.

I disagree with some of your points, which I bolded above.

*

UTCM does give away its era, because much of the dialogue is not at all connected with the typical 40's era dialogue. Yes, the black and white film, and some of the scenery reflect that period, but that's about it. In 1940 you would have never had a leading man saying, "put a pillow up her ass, she likes that!" So, it's clear to the viewer that it was not originally filmed 40 yrs prior to its actual release. The dialogue and "antics" easily give that away.

*

Purple Rain was much more than just the "rising star" story. It was profiling various struggles of a young "Kid" from a certain environment - family issues, relationship issues, competition, and his own need for control. Yes, the ultimate meaning of the film was a kid reaching success with his music, but it was much more layered than that. Prince's performance in the basement scene after his Father shot himself was extremely emotional and personal - it was clearly coming from a "real" place, as he was not a professional actor. It was very impressive.

*

I think the difference between PR and UTCM, with regard to "non-Prince" fans is that even they have at least heard of PR, and many have seen it even if they are not a fan of his music. However, most in that group have never heard of UTCM, let alone watched the film. They would have to be introduced to it as you stated.

*

I think the reason PR has 'aged" better than UTCM is that it was iconic out of the gate, and that impression has never changed. It was and still is regarded as the best, or one of the best rock films ever made, whereas, UTCM has only seen slightly more positive review many years later, and mainly by Prince fans.

violetcrush said:

feeluupp said:

PURPLE RAIN is iconic in popular culture and popular music... The general public barely knows UTC... So in essence what has really aged better...

I disagree with some of your points, which I bolded above.

*

UTCM does give away its era, because much of the dialogue is not at all connected with the typical 40's era dialogue. Yes, the black and white film, and some of the scenery reflect that period, but that's about it. In 1940 you would have never had a leading man saying, "put a pillow up her ass, she likes that!" So, it's clear to the viewer that it was not originally filmed 40 yrs prior to its actual release. The dialogue and "antics" easily give that away.

*

Purple Rain was much more than just the "rising star" story. It was profiling various struggles of a young "Kid" from a certain environment - family issues, relationship issues, competition, and his own need for control. Yes, the ultimate meaning of the film was a kid reaching success with his music, but it was much more layered than that. Prince's performance in the basement scene after his Father shot himself was extremely emotional and personal - it was clearly coming from a "real" place, as he was not a professional actor. It was very impressive.

*

I think the difference between PR and UTCM, with regard to "non-Prince" fans is that even they have at least heard of PR, and many have seen it even if they are not a fan of his music. However, most in that group have never heard of UTCM, let alone watched the film. They would have to be introduced to it as you stated.

*

I think the reason PR has 'aged" better than UTCM is that it was iconic out of the gate, and that impression has never changed. It was and still is regarded as the best, or one of the best rock films ever made, whereas, UTCM has only seen slightly more positive review many years later, and mainly by Prince fans.

Good points all around but i think you skipped over the biggest one which is that Prince is, first and foremost, a musician - not a hustling gigolo , a comedian or even an actor - and that's where his strengths lay. PR put his charismatic presence as a performer front and center and used it to frame the rest of the film. UTCM showed his more annoying, off putting and less likeable and accessible side and brought it to the forefront.

PR itself isn't a GREAT movie either but it has GREAT elements to it that make its shortcomings forgiveable and easier to overlook. Primarily Prince basically playing himself and putting his strength as a performer front and center while using the other elements to frame that. I don't think Prince is a bad actor, per se, but his limitations are obvious. He's too self aware, often over the top and stuck in his own eccentricity and style to project anything more than ...well...being fucking Prince. He'd need to be cast in the right role and sort of stay in his lane. Cast in the proper film in the right role, I think he could have done more in movies but no one's going to buy him as a down on his luck everyman (or a CPA, a cop, an action hero, a soldier, etc.)

His sheer presence is too unique and overpowering to sell him as anything else. Maybe he could have played a weird Batman villain or a sci-fi Hugh Hefner type or something...Willy Wonka as I mentioned...a role in a Muppet movie...stuff like that. I don't know wtf he was suposed to be in UTCM besides a preening, self absorbed, unfunny asshole living a life that no one can relate to but that we're all supposed to automatically identify and sympathize with.

one thing for sure about that era, he seemed to be happy and love life, the pics of that era and some of his actions show a man who was relaxing into his fame. His mojo interview is the first one where I'm aware where he dropped the deep toned mystical voice and spoke like a normal brother. He would go back and forth over the years on whim it seems.

P really was one of the worst movie kissers out there, but that's not reason enough for me to hate ! I LOVE that this was shot in black and white. And I also love P's style during this period. For the movie, and the stage. He was at his hottest to these eyes. His sense of humor really came through, too. Funny, as bad as P's acting can be, one of the girls I went with to see this when it came out actually cried when he died in the movie. I laughed.

the pizza scene was funny so fuck you if you didn't laugh.

herb4 said:

violetcrush said:

I disagree with some of your points, which I bolded above.

*

UTCM does give away its era, because much of the dialogue is not at all connected with the typical 40's era dialogue. Yes, the black and white film, and some of the scenery reflect that period, but that's about it. In 1940 you would have never had a leading man saying, "put a pillow up her ass, she likes that!" So, it's clear to the viewer that it was not originally filmed 40 yrs prior to its actual release. The dialogue and "antics" easily give that away.

*

Purple Rain was much more than just the "rising star" story. It was profiling various struggles of a young "Kid" from a certain environment - family issues, relationship issues, competition, and his own need for control. Yes, the ultimate meaning of the film was a kid reaching success with his music, but it was much more layered than that. Prince's performance in the basement scene after his Father shot himself was extremely emotional and personal - it was clearly coming from a "real" place, as he was not a professional actor. It was very impressive.

*

I think the difference between PR and UTCM, with regard to "non-Prince" fans is that even they have at least heard of PR, and many have seen it even if they are not a fan of his music. However, most in that group have never heard of UTCM, let alone watched the film. They would have to be introduced to it as you stated.

*

I think the reason PR has 'aged" better than UTCM is that it was iconic out of the gate, and that impression has never changed. It was and still is regarded as the best, or one of the best rock films ever made, whereas, UTCM has only seen slightly more positive review many years later, and mainly by Prince fans.

Good points all around but i think you skipped over the biggest one which is that Prince is, first and foremost, a musician - not a hustling gigolo , a comedian or even an actor - and that's where his strengths lay. PR put his charismatic presence as a performer front and center and used it to frame the rest of the film. UTCM showed his more annoying, off putting and less likeable and accessible side and brought it to the forefront.

PR itself isn't a GREAT movie either but it has GREAT elements to it that make its shortcomings forgiveable and easier to overlook. Primarily Prince basically playing himself and putting his strength as a performer front and center while using the other elements to frame that. I don't think Prince is a bad actor, per se, but his limitations are obvious. He's too self aware, often over the top and stuck in his own eccentricity and style to project anything more than ...well...being fucking Prince. He'd need to be cast in the right role and sort of stay in his lane. Cast in the proper film in the right role, I think he could have done more in movies but no one's going to buy him as a down on his luck everyman (or a CPA, a cop, an action hero, a soldier, etc.)

His sheer presence is too unique and overpowering to sell him as anything else. Maybe he could have played a weird Batman villain or a sci-fi Hugh Hefner type or something...Willy Wonka as I mentioned...a role in a Muppet movie...stuff like that. I don't know wtf he was suposed to be in UTCM besides a preening, self absorbed, unfunny asshole living a life that no one can relate to but that we're all supposed to automatically identify and sympathize with.

First bolded point above - yes, exactly - and I think this was part of the problem, because he was a musician trying to direct the entire film plus act out a difficult part with a poor script. Just a recipe for disaster all around.

*

Second bolded comment - exactly right with the description of his character. My only change on that would be that I don't think he really wanted viewers to sympathize with that character. As Howard Bloom stated (quoted in my earlier post from Matt Thorne's Biography), he wanted the character killed off in the end, because he was a sinner in the eyes of God and did not deserve a happy ending. The biggest problem there is that I don't think the general audience was really getting his "deeper" message there, because the film never really got that deep.

*

Someone mentioned the film having a bad screenplay, however, I'm betting that Prince mandated that all or most of his handwritten script be included in that screenplay, and she probably didn't have much to work with from the start. Also, I wouldn't doubt that Prince made many changes to that screenplay once he took over as Director. Becky Johnston, who orginally did the screenplay, won an Oscar for the Prince Of Tides adapted screenplay, so my guess would be that she knew what she was doing in that area.

*

I think this quote from Wiki somes it up:

*

"The film received generally negative reviews from critics. On Rotten Tomatoes, it currently holds a 35% score based on 34 reviews, with an average rating of 3.9/10. The site's consensus states: "Under the Cherry Moon may satisfy the most rabid Prince fans, but everyone else will be better served with this vanity project's far superior soundtrack."^[10]"

PliablyPurple said:

P really was one of the worst movie kissers out there, but that's not reason enough for me to hate ! I LOVE that this was shot in black and white. And I also love P's style during this period. For the movie, and the stage. He was at his hottest to these eyes. His sense of humor really came through, too. Funny, as bad as P's acting can be, one of the girls I went with to see this when it came out actually cried when he died in the movie. I laughed.

Yes!!!! What was up with that??? How can you be one of the raunchiest and most sexual musicians on stage, and yet be a terrible on-screen kisser??!!! That makes no sense to me AT ALL. I'm gonna go with the excuse that he just couldn't commit to the "real deal" on the kissing, because he was not romantically involved with the co-stars

[Edited 2/2/19 17:10pm]

PeteSilas said:

one thing for sure about that era, he seemed to be happy and love life, the pics of that era and some of his actions show a man who was relaxing into his fame. His mojo interview is the first one where I'm aware where he dropped the deep toned mystical voice and spoke like a normal brother. He would go back and forth over the years on whim it seems.

He had reached the top of the mountain at that point, and had not yet begun to slide down the other side, so no doubt he was extremely happy I think the 1986 Parade Birthday concert shows that. He was relaxed, energetic, smiling, and having fun with the band. I love watching that show - and the interview with MoJo was right after the show. Very sweet conversation.

PliablyPurple said:

P really was one of the worst movie kissers out there, but that's not reason enough for me to hate ! I LOVE that this was shot in black and white. And I also love P's style during this period. For the movie, and the stage. He was at his hottest to these eyes. His sense of humor really came through, too. Funny, as bad as P's acting can be, one of the girls I went with to see this when it came out actually cried when he died in the movie. I laughed.

.....too funny! I know just what you're talking about with the girl, and her crying at the dying scene, because I could remember myself doing the same thing, because I was so in love and infatuated with Prince at time! .....now I laugh at the ridiculousness of me crying over Prince's bad acting, and how bad the movie actually was! I also cringe whenever I try to watch it now.

violetcrush said:

feeluupp said:

PURPLE RAIN is iconic in popular culture and popular music... The general public barely knows UTC... So in essence what has really aged better...

I disagree with some of your points, which I bolded above.

*

UTCM does give away its era, because much of the dialogue is not at all connected with the typical 40's era dialogue. Yes, the black and white film, and some of the scenery reflect that period, but that's about it. In 1940 you would have never had a leading man saying, "put a pillow up her ass, she likes that!" So, it's clear to the viewer that it was not originally filmed 40 yrs prior to its actual release. The dialogue and "antics" easily give that away.

*

Purple Rain was much more than just the "rising star" story. It was profiling various struggles of a young "Kid" from a certain environment - family issues, relationship issues, competition, and his own need for control. Yes, the ultimate meaning of the film was a kid reaching success with his music, but it was much more layered than that. Prince's performance in the basement scene after his Father shot himself was extremely emotional and personal - it was clearly coming from a "real" place, as he was not a professional actor. It was very impressive.

*

I think the difference between PR and UTCM, with regard to "non-Prince" fans is that even they have at least heard of PR, and many have seen it even if they are not a fan of his music. However, most in that group have never heard of UTCM, let alone watched the film. They would have to be introduced to it as you stated.

*

I think the reason PR has 'aged" better than UTCM is that it was iconic out of the gate, and that impression has never changed. It was and still is regarded as the best, or one of the best rock films ever made, whereas, UTCM has only seen slightly more positive review many years later, and mainly by Prince fans.

.

I think you may have misunderstood my point, or maybe I didn't express myself clearly enough. I wasn't suggesting that the film was made entirely in the style of old-time Hollywood of the '40s. It's not a full-on pastiche of any specific era, but there's enough of a melding of influences to prevent it from feeling like a period of its era. Which PR does. That doesn't necessarily mean one is better than the other. Just that there is zero mistaking the era in which PR was produced and released. Everything about it screams mid-'80s.

.

UTCM sidesteps that. No, they wouldn't have used the line you quoted in anything of the '40s - but at the same time it doesn't link it to 1986 by any means. The dialogue in UTCM could've been in any post-Hays Code film.

.

UTCM doesn't evoke any particular time period, which isn't inherently a "good" or "bad" element. It just means that 30+ years later it doesn't come across as dated in the way that PR absolutely does.

CAL3 said:

violetcrush said:

I disagree with some of your points, which I bolded above.

*

UTCM does give away its era, because much of the dialogue is not at all connected with the typical 40's era dialogue. Yes, the black and white film, and some of the scenery reflect that period, but that's about it. In 1940 you would have never had a leading man saying, "put a pillow up her ass, she likes that!" So, it's clear to the viewer that it was not originally filmed 40 yrs prior to its actual release. The dialogue and "antics" easily give that away.

*

Purple Rain was much more than just the "rising star" story. It was profiling various struggles of a young "Kid" from a certain environment - family issues, relationship issues, competition, and his own need for control. Yes, the ultimate meaning of the film was a kid reaching success with his music, but it was much more layered than that. Prince's performance in the basement scene after his Father shot himself was extremely emotional and personal - it was clearly coming from a "real" place, as he was not a professional actor. It was very impressive.

*

I think the difference between PR and UTCM, with regard to "non-Prince" fans is that even they have at least heard of PR, and many have seen it even if they are not a fan of his music. However, most in that group have never heard of UTCM, let alone watched the film. They would have to be introduced to it as you stated.

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I think the reason PR has 'aged" better than UTCM is that it was iconic out of the gate, and that impression has never changed. It was and still is regarded as the best, or one of the best rock films ever made, whereas, UTCM has only seen slightly more positive review many years later, and mainly by Prince fans.

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I think you may have misunderstood my point, or maybe I didn't express myself clearly enough. I wasn't suggesting that the film was made entirely in the style of old-time Hollywood of the '40s. It's not a full-on pastiche of any specific era, but there's enough of a melding of influences to prevent it from feeling like a period of its era. Which PR does. That doesn't necessarily mean one is better than the other. Just that there is zero mistaking the era in which PR was produced and released. Everything about it screams mid-'80s.

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UTCM sidesteps that. No, they wouldn't have used the line you quoted in anything of the '40s - but at the same time it doesn't link it to 1986 by any means. The dialogue in UTCM could've been in any post-Hays Code film.

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UTCM doesn't evoke any particular time period, which isn't inherently a "good" or "bad" element. It just means that 30+ years later it doesn't come across as dated in the way that PR absolutely does.

Purple Rain mght be a "dated" movie,but it's still a better,stronger,more powerful movie than UTCM.

CAL3 said:

violetcrush said:

I disagree with some of your points, which I bolded above.

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UTCM does give away its era, because much of the dialogue is not at all connected with the typical 40's era dialogue. Yes, the black and white film, and some of the scenery reflect that period, but that's about it. In 1940 you would have never had a leading man saying, "put a pillow up her ass, she likes that!" So, it's clear to the viewer that it was not originally filmed 40 yrs prior to its actual release. The dialogue and "antics" easily give that away.

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Purple Rain was much more than just the "rising star" story. It was profiling various struggles of a young "Kid" from a certain environment - family issues, relationship issues, competition, and his own need for control. Yes, the ultimate meaning of the film was a kid reaching success with his music, but it was much more layered than that. Prince's performance in the basement scene after his Father shot himself was extremely emotional and personal - it was clearly coming from a "real" place, as he was not a professional actor. It was very impressive.

*

I think the difference between PR and UTCM, with regard to "non-Prince" fans is that even they have at least heard of PR, and many have seen it even if they are not a fan of his music. However, most in that group have never heard of UTCM, let alone watched the film. They would have to be introduced to it as you stated.

*

I think the reason PR has 'aged" better than UTCM is that it was iconic out of the gate, and that impression has never changed. It was and still is regarded as the best, or one of the best rock films ever made, whereas, UTCM has only seen slightly more positive review many years later, and mainly by Prince fans.

.

I think you may have misunderstood my point, or maybe I didn't express myself clearly enough. I wasn't suggesting that the film was made entirely in the style of old-time Hollywood of the '40s. It's not a full-on pastiche of any specific era, but there's enough of a melding of influences to prevent it from feeling like a period of its era. Which PR does. That doesn't necessarily mean one is better than the other. Just that there is zero mistaking the era in which PR was produced and released. Everything about it screams mid-'80s.

.

UTCM sidesteps that. No, they wouldn't have used the line you quoted in anything of the '40s - but at the same time it doesn't link it to 1986 by any means. The dialogue in UTCM could've been in any post-Hays Code film.

.

UTCM doesn't evoke any particular time period, which isn't inherently a "good" or "bad" element. It just means that 30+ years later it doesn't come across as dated in the way that PR absolutely does.

I like that about PR though. Not only does the story still resonate today (minus some of the "pimp" antics), but it's also great that it's capturing a period in time - similar to the Beatles A Hard Days Night. They are time caspsule gems.

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You can say the same thing about the old black and white films, or films from any specific decade. The time frame of the filming is usually evident based on the styles, language, and features of the day - unless it was a film set in another time period. Doesn't make the films any less enjoyable.

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Yes, it's true there were no "typically 80's" outfits per se - although, if we ever get to view the color version I bet there would be some more obvious hints toward the 80's - however, the dialogue is blatantly modern, and not indicative of the era of black and white films. Of course, I think that is the mix that Prince was going for - all part of the campy comedy feel.

Awful movie. Even Spike Lee said it was terrible. Prince shouldn't have fired the director. Grafitti Bridge was even worse

[Edited 2/3/19 22:25pm]