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Reply #60 posted 01/26/19 8:30pm

onlyforaminute

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Watching them tango on a balcony over the sea, cooing woefully lame words of love, you find yourself more intrigued by Prince's paisley outfit--you wonder which set of buttons really work, the ones on the front of the jacket, at the back or along his pants leg.

lol ok thats funny.
Time keeps on slipping into the future...


This moment is all there is...
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Reply #61 posted 01/26/19 8:31pm

pinkcashmere23

calhounlovejoy said:

I loved it.

Me too.

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Reply #62 posted 01/26/19 10:51pm

Germanegro

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I just watched the DVD on a BluRay player for the first time. The black & white is very vivid, and all the visual textures are fine! I think that the romantic portrayal of Christopher and Mary was on the mark for 2 young adults in an early romance--which is what it was. Matter of fact, they could have been more flip and it would have been even better!

razz

The fight scenes, on the other hand, were really wooden and fake--I had to wince at each of those acts!

>

To me, though, in the end, the film is still a fun escape from the usual trudge.

cool

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Reply #63 posted 01/27/19 2:02am

PeteSilas

Germanegro said:

I just watched the DVD on a BluRay player for the first time. The black & white is very vivid, and all the visual textures are fine! I think that the romantic portrayal of Christopher and Mary was on the mark for 2 young adults in an early romance--which is what it was. Matter of fact, they could have been more flip and it would have been even better!

razz

The fight scenes, on the other hand, were really wooden and fake--I had to wince at each of those acts!

>

To me, though, in the end, the film is still a fun escape from the usual trudge.

cool

fight scene? jesus, it must be bad, i can't really remember it, you mean between tricky and jerome?

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Reply #64 posted 01/27/19 7:15am

violetcrush

Germanegro said:

I just watched the DVD on a BluRay player for the first time. The black & white is very vivid, and all the visual textures are fine! I think that the romantic portrayal of Christopher and Mary was on the mark for 2 young adults in an early romance--which is what it was. Matter of fact, they could have been more flip and it would have been even better!

razz

The fight scenes, on the other hand, were really wooden and fake--I had to wince at each of those acts!

>

To me, though, in the end, the film is still a fun escape from the usual trudge.

cool

I guess it's somewhat subjective. I just did not find the romantic scenes believable at all. The way he was kissing her....blahhhhhghh!! It looked so fake and forced. I'm guessing he was a guy who could not fake the physical intimacy. Either that, or he was more worried about looking good doing it then making it believable biggrin

*

Yes, the fight scenes were not believable at all either. Prince was a lover, not a fighter biggrin

*

The black and white visual was done well - thanks to the cinematographer, who also had done Raging Bull. However, it does seem a shame to lose all of the beautiful coastal colors. I think it was Bob Cavallo who said to him, "if you're gonna do a black and white film then why are you shooting it in Nice? It would be a lot cheaper to do it in Miami". I kind of have to agree with him on that one.

*

Yes, I think ultimately Prince wanted to do a fun throwback to the 40's comedies, which I think he did accomplish with the exception of the last scene. I understand the message he was trying to convey, however, it was a sudden 180 turn from the comedic and campy feel of the film. He changed the ending last minute. The execs were really pissed off.

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Reply #65 posted 01/27/19 7:32am

oceanblue

I love Prince as much as most here, and like most, in my eyes, the man could do no wrong, but even I have to admit that not everything he did was great, and that clearly includes UTCM, it was bad y'all:lol:

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Reply #66 posted 01/27/19 7:58am

Germanegro

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Christopher T. was definitely not a kind or gentle kisser, to be sure. I read where Prince was always going in for "the longest kiss in cinema history" at those liplocked moments. Apparently, the most gynmastic lip & tounge action, as well! Those weren't always romantic, but lol , the thing was a Prince vehicle--he was gonna kiss the taste outta' Mary Sharon's mouth!

lol

>

One more takedown mark for the critics.

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Reply #67 posted 01/27/19 8:04am

ufoclub

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Mainly... most people couldn’t identify with or even believe the characters. The plot didn’t feel substantial. The humor wasn’t that funny. The way the songs were featured was not as effective as many other movies.

But for a Prince fanatic it seemed fun and just another level of collecting more Prince experience... later. I mean I didn’t watch this at the time of release. the word of mouth was so bad! And I loved Purple Rain. I guess after I got into bootleg collecting I circled back and watched and collected this.


Who’s seen the Vanilla Ice movie!?
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Reply #68 posted 01/27/19 8:07am

ufoclub

avatar

violetcrush said:


"His comedy scenes with Benton play like bad improv sketches, with Prince coming off like a second-rate Morris Day and Benton like a loutish buffoon. Coated with thick makeup, a spit-curl positioned over his left eye, Prince often appears more prissy than paramour. He's so full of twitchy, self-conscious gestures that you never feel any jolt of sexual tension--it's as if he studied the art of movie seduction by watching old Paul Lynde movies."



*



Ouch!! No wonder Prince had an emotional breakdown after the film was done confused







Maybe that led to the “blue” recording of Crystal Ball? I don’t know the timeline.
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Reply #69 posted 01/27/19 8:16am

herb4

violetcrush said:

Germanegro said:

I just watched the DVD on a BluRay player for the first time. The black & white is very vivid, and all the visual textures are fine! I think that the romantic portrayal of Christopher and Mary was on the mark for 2 young adults in an early romance--which is what it was. Matter of fact, they could have been more flip and it would have been even better!

razz

The fight scenes, on the other hand, were really wooden and fake--I had to wince at each of those acts!

>

To me, though, in the end, the film is still a fun escape from the usual trudge.

cool

I guess it's somewhat subjective. I just did not find the romantic scenes believable at all. The way he was kissing her....blahhhhhghh!! It looked so fake and forced. I'm guessing he was a guy who could not fake the physical intimacy. Either that, or he was more worried about looking good doing it then making it believable biggrin

*

Yes, the fight scenes were not believable at all either. Prince was a lover, not a fighter biggrin

*

The black and white visual was done well - thanks to the cinematographer, who also had done Raging Bull. However, it does seem a shame to lose all of the beautiful coastal colors. I think it was Bob Cavallo who said to him, "if you're gonna do a black and white film then why are you shooting it in Nice? It would be a lot cheaper to do it in Miami". I kind of have to agree with him on that one.

*

Yes, I think ultimately Prince wanted to do a fun throwback to the 40's comedies, which I think he did accomplish with the exception of the last scene. I understand the message he was trying to convey, however, it was a sudden 180 turn from the comedic and campy feel of the film. He changed the ending last minute. The execs were really pissed off.


I've seen "Cool As Ice". God it's brutal. Way wore than UTCM but Good comparison though.

Agree with violetcrush that the romance was just not believable and Tracy was such a self serving, preening smug asshole that it was hard to root for him. I too would have liked to see the movie in color as well.

My idea for this film would be to have Prince be a struggling street/open mic musician who was actually nice to people, poor and humble instead of hamming it up and being a smartass, dirving around in a t-bird with his secret cave and frilly fashion. The problem wasn't his femininity, it was that he was completely unbelievable as a gigolo who women pay to have sex with and that he was pretty much an asshole to everyone that it rendered him unsympathetic.

I don't know what Jerome was supposed to be (his pimp?) and I don't know why we're supposed to fall in love with the main character and root for him at all. Show Christopher really struggling to make ends meet, hatching a plan to latch on to Mary and then have him redeem himself once he falls for her. PR worked because , while Prince was still an asshole in that film, it went out its way to show WHY by depicting his home life and the abuse he lived under.


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Reply #70 posted 01/27/19 9:38am

feeluupp

Can analyze how good or bad UTCM was all you want... The true fact is... It was the follow up to Purple Rain... That was Prince's pinnacle, his manifesto in terms of imagery and music, none of his movies would have the same impact after that.

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Reply #71 posted 01/27/19 9:49am

herb4

Sign O the Times is the best Prince movie and he even tried to muck that one up with hints of a "plot"

Come to think of it, he did this a lot and it almost always sucked and detracted from the film

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Reply #72 posted 01/27/19 9:51am

Germanegro

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To analyze some of the criticicms of Christopher and Tricky, which are fair--I can see the perspective here-- but can disagre with, due to my own frame of reference, is that I see 2 American bros. on the streets of a wealty French town getting their hustle on--not necessarily a kind or sympathetic endeavor to your typical audience--let's be real. I mean, transport those 2 to say, a more pedestrian locale like 1980's Atlanta,even, and they'd have been unsympathetically strung up to a lamppost for their indiscretions! So I get that many viewers, at least in the U.S., would strain to relate those roles to those 2 actors.

>

Giving the guys a minsntrel role as buskers, on the other hand, would certainly have conveyed a more audience-relatable role for people to settle on. I can see your point, herb4. But, as I had mentioned in the thread at an earlier point, take a mental exercise and ignore the story as a Prince vehicle, change the ethnicity of Christopher and Tricky to Vanilla Ice and Ricky Srpringfield types, and the audience's sympathetic conflicts toward the characters melt away and their personality flaws--assholery and all--transform into just another plot point. But of course the lead is not a Euro type, but a 5'2 negro, so he could hardly realistically portray such a ladykiller in a straitlaced manner--and that is where his frillery and piano lounge perch come into play to keep him exotically compelling and accessible to his marks.

>

Jerome cum Tricky was the main dude's sidekick--a friend and foil--who both helped to keep his pal together and to serve his own track of tension to the plot. Simple. You couldn't expect 1 American brother on the south coast of France to keep his cool all on his own! Perhaps an Algerian or Cote d' Ivoire stand-in would fit the bill, in a pinch. Having to figure whether Tricky's character is bisexual or just silly-mugging to me just added to his own mystique to the scenes. I don't believe that the character dove too deeply into buffoonery.

>

At any rate, the movie wasn't all that serious, well, not for many us, although it was for the protagonist--Christopher T. was too bold biting off more conflict than he could chew, and in the end got capped for the trouble he roused. Mary carried on living as his timeless lover. Romantic? Well, kinda. She was always going to live to enjoy her money, regarless of whomever woulda' been scripted to portray her lover, I'd say.

>

I could even imagine an alternative ending to the film where Chris and Mary run off together to a gypsy carnival, carrying on the "life is a parade" theme for a little bit longer.

crysball

herb4 said:

violetcrush said:

I guess it's somewhat subjective. I just did not find the romantic scenes believable at all. The way he was kissing her....blahhhhhghh!! It looked so fake and forced. I'm guessing he was a guy who could not fake the physical intimacy. Either that, or he was more worried about looking good doing it then making it believable biggrin

*

Yes, the fight scenes were not believable at all either. Prince was a lover, not a fighter biggrin

*

The black and white visual was done well - thanks to the cinematographer, who also had done Raging Bull. However, it does seem a shame to lose all of the beautiful coastal colors. I think it was Bob Cavallo who said to him, "if you're gonna do a black and white film then why are you shooting it in Nice? It would be a lot cheaper to do it in Miami". I kind of have to agree with him on that one.

*

Yes, I think ultimately Prince wanted to do a fun throwback to the 40's comedies, which I think he did accomplish with the exception of the last scene. I understand the message he was trying to convey, however, it was a sudden 180 turn from the comedic and campy feel of the film. He changed the ending last minute. The execs were really pissed off.


I've seen "Cool As Ice". God it's brutal. Way wore than UTCM but Good comparison though.

Agree with violetcrush that the romance was just not believable and Tracy was such a self serving, preening smug asshole that it was hard to root for him. I too would have liked to see the movie in color as well.

My idea for this film would be to have Prince be a struggling street/open mic musician who was actually nice to people, poor and humble instead of hamming it up and being a smartass, dirving around in a t-bird with his secret cave and frilly fashion. The problem wasn't his femininity, it was that he was completely unbelievable as a gigolo who women pay to have sex with and that he was pretty much an asshole to everyone that it rendered him unsympathetic.

I don't know what Jerome was supposed to be (his pimp?) and I don't know why we're supposed to fall in love with the main character and root for him at all. Show Christopher really struggling to make ends meet, hatching a plan to latch on to Mary and then have him redeem himself once he falls for her. PR worked because , while Prince was still an asshole in that film, it went out its way to show WHY by depicting his home life and the abuse he lived under.


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Reply #73 posted 01/27/19 9:56am

onlyforaminute

avatar

herb4 said:



violetcrush said:




Germanegro said:


I just watched the DVD on a BluRay player for the first time. The black & white is very vivid, and all the visual textures are fine! I think that the romantic portrayal of Christopher and Mary was on the mark for 2 young adults in an early romance--which is what it was. Matter of fact, they could have been more flip and it would have been even better!


razz


The fight scenes, on the other hand, were really wooden and fake--I had to wince at each of those acts!


>


To me, though, in the end, the film is still a fun escape from the usual trudge.


cool




I guess it's somewhat subjective. I just did not find the romantic scenes believable at all. The way he was kissing her....blahhhhhghh!! It looked so fake and forced. I'm guessing he was a guy who could not fake the physical intimacy. Either that, or he was more worried about looking good doing it then making it believable biggrin


*


Yes, the fight scenes were not believable at all either. Prince was a lover, not a fighter biggrin


*


The black and white visual was done well - thanks to the cinematographer, who also had done Raging Bull. However, it does seem a shame to lose all of the beautiful coastal colors. I think it was Bob Cavallo who said to him, "if you're gonna do a black and white film then why are you shooting it in Nice? It would be a lot cheaper to do it in Miami". I kind of have to agree with him on that one.


*


Yes, I think ultimately Prince wanted to do a fun throwback to the 40's comedies, which I think he did accomplish with the exception of the last scene. I understand the message he was trying to convey, however, it was a sudden 180 turn from the comedic and campy feel of the film. He changed the ending last minute. The execs were really pissed off.




I've seen "Cool As Ice". God it's brutal. Way wore than UTCM but Good comparison though.

Agree with violetcrush that the romance was just not believable and Tracy was such a self serving, preening smug asshole that it was hard to root for him. I too would have liked to see the movie in color as well.

My idea for this film would be to have Prince be a struggling street/open mic musician who was actually nice to people, poor and humble instead of hamming it up and being a smartass, dirving around in a t-bird with his secret cave and frilly fashion. The problem wasn't his femininity, it was that he was completely unbelievable as a gigolo who women pay to have sex with and that he was pretty much an asshole to everyone that it rendered him unsympathetic.

I don't know what Jerome was supposed to be (his pimp?) and I don't know why we're supposed to fall in love with the main character and root for him at all. Show Christopher really struggling to make ends meet, hatching a plan to latch on to Mary and then have him redeem himself once he falls for her. PR worked because , while Prince was still an asshole in that film, it went out its way to show WHY by depicting his home life and the abuse he lived under.





Its easier to relate to the struggling ambitions of a young artist. Prince was no Richard Gerr (American Gigolo) so yeah i can see a setback.
Time keeps on slipping into the future...


This moment is all there is...
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Reply #74 posted 01/27/19 10:15am

bonatoc

avatar

I don't think some of you grasp how much Prince was mocking himself.
There is something totally humble about the performance:
it's honest. Prince tries to stay grounded, but also shows you
what suddenly his life has turned into.
It's luxury refined, not the back of a Limousine.
I'm sorry, but the vast majority of the USofA
look a tad tacky to european minds.

You need to have fallen in love with France to dig UTCM.
And have the chance to sleep in one of his many castles.
It's all about the Baguette, Honey!

Peut-être nos amis américains sont-ils jaloux
che ci sia un Prince anche Europeo...
(not looking for transatlantic wars here, just sayin')


The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #75 posted 01/27/19 10:41am

Germanegro

avatar

I do not believe that prince was mocking his own life in the story. Luxury refined is one object that the money Prince obtained through his grinding hustle had earned him! I can't personally tell how much refined luxury he actually enjoyed--he enjoyed his fast cars, for one.

>

The making of the film can be seen as an honest result of his hard work and cunning to win and project a media portrayal in his image of choice. With this project, he certainly enjoying the luxury of embracing a cinematic style to reflect his love of the historic --not everyone bought into his love of the black and white. I don't believe that the project is a mockery of much besides frivolity of some of the things that money can buy and placing more value upon one's spiritual connections.

>

I guess that I did forget to mention that the film's locale is a character in the tale, as well. Fans of both entertainer Prince and the nation of France alike can enjoy the portrayal of these 2 characters. Nevermind that the project had comercially flopped. Enjoy the thing if you please.

bonatoc said:

I don't think some of you grasp how much Prince was mocking himself.
There is something totally humble about the performance:
it's honest. Prince tries to stay grounded, but also shows you
what suddenly his life has turned into.
It's luxury refined, not the back of a Limousine.
I'm sorry, but the vast majority of the USofA
look a tad tacky to european minds.

You need to have fallen in love with France to dig UTCM.
And have the chance to sleep in one of his many castles.
It's all about the Baguette, Honey!

Peut-être nos amis américains sont-ils jaloux
che ci sia un Prince anche Europeo...
(not looking for transatlantic wars here, just sayin')


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Reply #76 posted 01/27/19 11:15am

violetcrush

Germanegro said:

I do not believe that prince was mocking his own life in the story. Luxury refined is one object that the money Prince obtained through his grinding hustle had earned him! I can't personally tell how much refined luxury he actually enjoyed--he enjoyed his fast cars, for one.

>

The making of the film can be seen as an honest result of his hard work and cunning to win and project a media portrayal in his image of choice. With this project, he certainly enjoying the luxury of embracing a cinematic style to reflect his love of the historic --not everyone bought into his love of the black and white. I don't believe that the project is a mockery of much besides frivolity of some of the things that money can buy and placing more value upon one's spiritual connections.

>

I guess that I did forget to mention that the film's locale is a character in the tale, as well. Fans of both entertainer Prince and the nation of France alike can enjoy the portrayal of these 2 characters. Nevermind that the project had comercially flopped. Enjoy the thing if you please.

bonatoc said:

I don't think some of you grasp how much Prince was mocking himself.
There is something totally humble about the performance:
it's honest. Prince tries to stay grounded, but also shows you
what suddenly his life has turned into.
It's luxury refined, not the back of a Limousine.
I'm sorry, but the vast majority of the USofA
look a tad tacky to european minds.

You need to have fallen in love with France to dig UTCM.
And have the chance to sleep in one of his many castles.
It's all about the Baguette, Honey!

Peut-être nos amis américains sont-ils jaloux
che ci sia un Prince anche Europeo...
(not looking for transatlantic wars here, just sayin')


I actually do think he was projecting much of his own life experience - allbeit in a very comedic and exaggerated way. He really did become a "gigolo" of sorts when he became a world-wide sensation - well, it seems he had that in him from the start, but it really took off with PR.

*

He tells a similar story in the song Movie Star:

*

Let's see... body oil - check
Incense - check
Environmental records - double check!
I'ma get some serious drawers tonight, think I ain't?
Let's see, if I tell Gilbert and 'Rome to meet me eleven then I creep at ten
That'll give me an hour of free reign
More drawers (More drawers)

[Verse ]
9:30 - getting dressed
I had a couple sips of wine
Boo! - I swear to God
My suit was hanging fine
Everybody at the club freaked
When I stepped from the limousine
They said - "Ooh, it's good to see you"
I said - "Oh, it's good to be seen
You know what I mean?"
Tell you what's good
It's a good thing we live close cuz I almost suffocated in that car
Next time I won't wear so much Paco Rabinni or whatever that stuff is
I wonder if they got potato chips up in this...
Man, this ain't like them house parties we used to go to
That's alright, I'm clean
Tonight, hey, I'm a movie star
I see myself on a silver screen, huh
Tonight, it don't matter who you are
I'm the only star on the scene
You know what I mean?
Man, I hate making movies
But I like that money, think I don't? Hmph
Check me out
I just walk in, don't even find a seat
Just threw my coat right on the floor
Grab somebody for a quick dance
Boy or girl - it don't matter no more, I'm hot!
Ha, ha, ha - shit
Mix was right
Bold, Lord
Ouch! Ha, ha
Baby, do you want to, do you want to get off?
Tonight, I'm a movie star
I see myself up on the silver screen
Tonight, it don't matter
I'm the star on the scene
Ouch!
Mix was right
On the one the kick drum hit the triple beat
Baby, I was popping
Did one spin, did a second, did the splits
Came up, looked around, the joint was hopping
Hopping! The joint was hopping!
Somebody say "Movie Star!"
So check it out, you wanna dance?
Are you wearing that Paco Rabbit or whatever you call it?
Oh wow, that's dog
What? Speak up, I can't hear over that suit
Maybe you can hear this?
Am I supposed to be impressed?
That's right, Rolls Royce
Check it out, baby
You want to dance now?
Maybe next song
Yeah right, dance floor is not big enough, fat cow
Ooh, the mix, it's about the mix
Ooh baby, I like that, but the kid going to show you a few tricks
Can I play with you?
Baby, let's creep, I had enough of this action
Bartender, on the house
Give everybody in here something
Man, I don't care
I got money to spare, you're cute and your music's thumping
Yo baby, get the check
"Yo baby" my behind, I need my money
Say Brother Carothers, can I get some credit?
No? Much money I done spent in this nasty joint?
U need to be slapped!
Darling, shall we leave now?
Go to Hades, boy!
So you like my crib?
It's not mine, it's rented
Say, how much did you have to drink?Fr
What's the biggest lake you've ever been in?
So, do you like environmental records?
Crickets chirping, water rushing
Supposed to make you horny
It just make me want to go to the bathroom
Actually this one's not bad, check it out
So like, what's your name?
(snoring Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz)
Oh wow, that's dog!

*

France (the parts that I have experienced - Paris, Honfleur, and Champagne) is certainly beautiful and a wonderful cultural experience. However, beside some of the scenic shots - of which some of the majestic visual was lost with the B&W film - much of that aspect was overshadowed by the focus on the comedic scenes. He was trying to combine cultural sophistication with campy comedy and a light-hearted story with a sad and tragic ending.

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Reply #77 posted 01/27/19 11:16am

SoulAlive

In the DMSR book,it is writtten that Prince wasn't happy with the way the movie turned out.He cried about it and Susannah was there to comfort him.He probably knew that it wasn't gonna be well received,but there was no turning back at that point.

..

[Edited 1/27/19 11:25am]

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Reply #78 posted 01/27/19 11:22am

SoulAlive

Germanegro said:

:idea:Try Annie Lennox in place of Madonna, perhaps, if she is in the right timeline? The point being that another well-known name set in the cast would have been a bigger draw to the house, if Prince's ego would have allowed it. Writing? Eh. Like people loved Purple Rain for the scintilating dialoge--It's dramatic arc was okay, though.

violetcrush said:

^^^^ I don't think Madonna would have been the right fit for the female lead. She was too "street" for that part. Not sure if she could have pulled off the "uptight, educated rich girl" thing in 1986. I think Kristin got that part down, but as the critics said, there was zero chemistry between her and Prince, and that was the focal point of the story. Prince was not a good enough actor to fake that romantic connection, and she was too inexperienced with acting at that point.

*

The writing needed to be better too.

I actually think that Sheena Easton could have played that role.And because she's a singer,Prince could have written a few songs for her to sing in the film.With Prince and Sheena starring in it,they could have made it more like a musical.

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Reply #79 posted 01/27/19 11:29am

violetcrush

SoulAlive said:

Germanegro said:

:idea:Try Annie Lennox in place of Madonna, perhaps, if she is in the right timeline? The point being that another well-known name set in the cast would have been a bigger draw to the house, if Prince's ego would have allowed it. Writing? Eh. Like people loved Purple Rain for the scintilating dialoge--It's dramatic arc was okay, though.

I actually think that Sheena Easton could have played that role.And because she's a singer,Prince could have written a few songs for her to sing in the film.With Prince and Sheena starring in it,they could have made it more like a musical.

Sheena wasn't an actress though, so she most likely would have done no better than Susannah in that regard. Susannah's vocals meshed great with Prince's, so I think musical numbers would have worked just as well with her.

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Reply #80 posted 01/27/19 12:23pm

Germanegro

avatar

I absolutely agree that Prince was projecting aspects of his life in "Under the Cherry Moon." I don't believe that he was mocking or making light of his life's cirucumstances with the story, however. Who knows?

>

It's surprising to me to read that he cried over the end result of the film! I guess that means he had higher artistic ambitions for the project. It is kind of sad in a way but if true was also was an opportunity for him to realize a shortcoming and understand that he could use some teamwork to help him create an even better storyline, if that is what he did want to achieve. He didn't follow up on any of that wisdon, though, did he. I didn't cry over the film, despite the thing not being Academy Award winning material. I laughed, appreciatively. I'm just a crazy fan.

[Edited 1/27/19 12:25pm]

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Reply #81 posted 01/27/19 12:51pm

SoulAlive

Germanegro said:

It's surprising to me to read that he cried over the end result of the film! I guess that means he had higher artistic ambitions for the project. It is kind of sad in a way but if true was also was an opportunity for him to realize a shortcoming and understand that he could use some teamwork to help him create an even better storyline, if that is what he did want to achieve.

yeah,sometimes I think Prince let his ego get the best of him.He was really ambitious (which is great) but his "I can do anything" attitude sometimes worked against him.He should not have fired the director.

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Reply #82 posted 01/27/19 1:00pm

Germanegro

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violetcrush said:
France (the parts that I have experienced - Paris, Honfleur, and Champagne) is certainly beautiful and a wonderful cultural experience. However, beside some of the scenic shots - of which some of the majestic visual was lost with the B&W film - much of that aspect was overshadowed by the focus on the comedic scenes. He was trying to combine cultural sophistication with campy comedy and a light-hearted story with a sad and tragic ending.

So many people love colors in film. One day someone will make an investment to colorize this movie if there was ever any promise for people to buy the thing.

>

Re. his blurry focus, such is life--a lot of background flow--he had all of those things happening for himself personally at the time. I guess the film was an unfortunate filter for those myriad experiences. The sad and tragic ending also came to be for Prince, as with Christopher.! Interesting reflection, there.

>

I think that a campily comedic scamp plopped down in the midst of refined culture meeting a sad, tragic ending isn't that much of a plot stretch. Unless the court jester is actually killing it for 100%of the time, or has a brilliant exit plan up his sleeve, it seems that arc could be quite the possibility.!

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Reply #83 posted 01/27/19 1:12pm

violetcrush

Germanegro said:

violetcrush said:
France (the parts that I have experienced - Paris, Honfleur, and Champagne) is certainly beautiful and a wonderful cultural experience. However, beside some of the scenic shots - of which some of the majestic visual was lost with the B&W film - much of that aspect was overshadowed by the focus on the comedic scenes. He was trying to combine cultural sophistication with campy comedy and a light-hearted story with a sad and tragic ending.

So many people love colors in film. One day someone will make an investment to colorize this movie if there was ever any promise for people to buy the thing.

>

Re. his blurry focus, such is life--a lot of background flow--he had all of those things happening for himself personally at the time. I guess the film was an unfortunate filter for those myriad experiences. The sad and tragic ending also came to be for Prince, as with Christopher.! Interesting reflection, there.

>

I think that a campily comedic scamp plopped down in the midst of refined culture meeting a sad, tragic ending isn't that much of a plot stretch. Unless the court jester is actually killing it for 100%of the time, or has a brilliant exit plan up his sleeve, it seems that arc could be quite the possibility.!

Yes, right....a lot of very eerie coincidetnal circumstances with that film and his own life -

*

April 21, 1985 - records Sometimes It Snows In April live in one take

*

April 21, 2016 - sad sad sad

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Reply #84 posted 01/27/19 1:56pm

paddypurple

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bonatoc said:

SoulAlive said:

No,it really isn't smile


Yessidiz, Christofferdammit!


NEW POSITION: A DEFENSE OF "UNDER THE CHERRY MOON"

by Peter Sobczynski

May 4, 2016





In the wake of the shocking death of musical icon Prince last month, his landmark 1984 film debut “Purple Rain” reappeared in movie theaters across the country. Like many of his fans, I took a couple of hours to watch it on the big screen, where it belongs. (In all honesty, I also went because I was seeing “Mother’s Day” later that day, figured that seeing it might help towards evening out my psychic scales.)




Watching it again, I’m still convinced that it is either one of the best terrible movies ever made or one of the worst great movies of all time. In many ways, it is kind of an awful film that takes a narrative that might have seemed thin for a later vehicle and added dime-store psychology and an attitude towards women that even back then was retrograde at best (including such infamous moments as a woman being tossed into a trash dumpster for a laugh and the bit in which Apollonia Kotero is told to purify herself in the waters of Lake Minnetonka); it’s borderline disturbed at worst.




At the same time, “Purple Rain” was made with a great style and energy. And unlike many rock stars who tried to make the transition to the big screen (only to find that whatever charisma they displayed on stage in front of thousands of screaming fans did not translate to standing before a movie camera), Prince himself turned out to be a mesmerizing screen presence, even when he was just standing there, performing the songs from the spectacular soundtrack.




There is some great stuff in “Purple Rain,” of course, and in the annals of rock movie history, it deserves its place of prominence. But it’s most significant legacy of the film, at least from a cinematic standpoint, it is that film’s massive success ensured that Prince, if he so desired, could do basically anything he wanted, no matter how outlandish, for a follow-up and he could get it financed by people hoping that he would give them “Purple Rain 2”—either literally or metaphorically.




Of course, as anyone who was following Prince even back then, he was never one for repeating himself or doing the expected. Taking advantage of the power he possessed at this time in Hollywood, he used it to produce and make his directorial debut with “Under the Cherry Moon” (1986), one of the strangest and craziest movies of its time. It’s a film so utterly defiant of what one might have rightfully expected from a Prince vehicle that even his loyal fans stayed away in droves and it immediately went down in the annals of screen history as a disaster that more or less killed Prince’s viability as a screen icon.




The hell of it is that once one gets past the fact that it does not resemble “Purple Rain 2” in even the slightest, it reveals itself to be an offbeat gem that may one day go down as the MTV era equivalent of Marcel L’Herbier’s infamous 1924 silent epic “L’inhumaine”—an unabashed vanity project that both revels in and transcends its solipsistic underpinnings in ways that are alternately perplexing and endearing, an endeavor further bolstered by a stunning visual style and a central performance that, for better or worse, you cannot take your eyes off of for a second, not that you ever have a chance to do so.




Under-the-Cherry-Moon-PS-2016-2.jpg




In “Under the Cherry Moon,” Prince and fellow “Purple Rain” refugee Jerome Benton play Christopher Tracy and Tricky, a pair of friends from Miami who have relocated to the French Riviera and earn their living as gigolos insinuating themselves into the bedrooms and pocketbooks of the countless rich women they come across. One day, the newspapers announce the imminent arrival of Mary Sharon (Kristin Scott Thomas, in her screen debut), a long woman with serious daddy issues about her often-absent billionaire father (and considering that her father is played by the always-terrifying Steven Berkoff, can you blame her?) and a $50 million dollar trust fund that she has just come into. This is the proverbial big fish that the Christopher and Tricky have been waiting for—the one where the ultimate prize is matrimony—and they both set off to win both her heart and her millions.




However, Mary is not quite as naïve as some might think, and fails to fall for their usual business at first. Eventually, Christopher’s bizarre seduction techniques (which have to be seen to be believed) win her over and she falls in love with him. Unexpectedly, Christopher finds himself falling in love with her as well and not just because of the money, a development that does not sit well with Tricky and leads to the inevitable scene in which he says exactly the wrong things at exactly the wrong time with exactly the wrong people present.




To further complicate matters, Mary’s father arrives, gets a load of the situation and is determined to get Christopher out of the picture once and for all and if a payoff does not work, he is more than willing to go to more extreme measures to get the task done. Oh yeah—while a number of Prince songs (including the smash hit “Kiss”) can be intermittently heard on the soundtrack and Christopher does work as a piano player, he doesn’t actually perform a song on-screen until nearly the halfway point when he kicks in with an ecstatic rendition of “Girls and Boys.” After that, his only other on-screen performance comes during the end credits when (Spoiler Alert!) he reunites with the Revolution in Heaven to jam out on “Mountains.”

Man, that must have been one hell of a pitch meeting.




If one applies normal critical standard to “Under the Cherry Moon,” it could easily be dismissed as little more than a vanity project gone horribly wrong. The screenplay by Becky Johnston, who would go on to write the scripts for “The Prince of Tides” and “Seven Years in Tibet,” plods along aimlessly and is laden with clichés so hoary that they seem to have been excavated from a museum. The performances are all over the place, ranging from the barely-there underacting by Kristin Scott Thomas (who was a replacement for Prince’s then-girlfriend Susannah Melvoin, originally cast in the part—a rumor that Madonna was considered for the part as sends the mind reeling) to the scenery-chewing histrionics of Berkoff (who was also a replacement when the originally cast Terrence Stamp quit early in the production).




The romantic chemistry between the two leads is practically nonexistent, which works in the early scenes when Mary is keeping Christopher at arms length, but not so much in the later scenes when they are supposed to be in love. Frankly, there is more genuine chemistry between Christopher and his cohort Tricky throughout, which adds an intriguing layer to the proceedings (and there is the insinuation that they have engaged in threesomes with their sexy landlord in order to beat paying the rent), it has the effect of making Mary seem like the beard than the object of desire.




And yet, if you can get past those flaws—and I admit that may be a chore for some—“Under the Cherry Moon” proves to be an utterly fascinating film thanks to the multiple contributions on both sides of the camera by Prince. As he demonstrated in “Purple Rain,” he is not a good actor in the conventional sense, but as a screen presence, he is undeniably captivating. Unlike a lot of music stars, he is able to rethink his mystique into cinematic terms in ways that are strangely compelling.




The difference here is that this time around, he gets a chance to show off a sly sense of humor that was largely absent in the generally self-serious “Purple Rain.” Throughout the film, he demonstrates crack comic timing that manifests itself in everything from his wild way with dialogue (as soon as you hear it, you will be imitating his unique method of saying “Garçon!”) to his cheerful willingness to engage in overt mugging for the camera, which somehow fits his character perfectly.




Even better are the scenes featuring him and Jerome Benton (who stole scenes in “Purple Rain” as Morris Day’s aide-de-camp), in which the two go at it like a classic comedy duo romping through some of their most beloved bits—in some alternate version of Hollywood, Prince and Benton continued the act and went on to become the modern-day Martin & Lewis in a series of classic comedies. (If you doubt this, then go to YouTube and look up the phrase “wrecka stow” and prepare to be delighted.)

Under-the-Cherry-Moon-PS-2016-3.png



As a director, Prince (who took over the reins from Mary Lambert early in the production) proved to be just as fascinating behind the camera as in front of it. Yes, there are the kind of clumsily-staged and oddly-paced scenes that are the hallmarks of most first-time filmmakers, but the film as a whole is so ambitious that those hiccups can easily be ignored.




At a time when most filmmakers were trying to approximate the look and style of music video, Prince, in conjunction with German-born cinematographer Michael Ballhaus(just beginning a Hollywood career that would see him shot such films as “Broadcast News,” “Bram Stoker’s Dracula” and a number of Martin Scorsese classics including “The Last Temptation of Christ,” “Goodfellas” and “The Departed”) and legendary production designer Richard Sylbert, created a film that, while set in the present day, was a deliberate evocation of old-time Hollywood glamour that also served as an ideal demonstration of the eternal glories of black-and-white filmmaking.




However, the throwback visuals are more than just a stylistic ploy. By taking a film that looks and feels as if Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers will be popping up for a musical number and then placing someone like Prince—a creature who would never have been admitted into the star pantheon of that era for any number of reasons—in the middle of it all, it offers up a subtextual tension that plays nicely with the more overt conflict between the outside Christopher and the closed world of money and privilege in which Mary resides, even if she herself does not completely embody it.




The music was perversely released on vinyl with the title “Parade” rather than the name of the film it was featured in. The blend of funk, rock and dance sounds mixed together with both American and European sensibilities was underrated at the time (although a hit by any normal standards, “Parade” did not come close to the sales of “Purple Rain,’” and the electrifying “Kiss” was the only big single off of it) but it plays beautifully today.




Oddly, the music was de-emphasized in the film—Thomas gets to perform an on-screen musical number before Prince does—and it is only when you listen to the full album that you can fully realize how strong the songs are. (This is most evident with “Sometimes It Snows In April,” which in the film underscores one of the most awkward moments but comes to full emotional life when heard on its own.) The lack of full-scale musical numbers is especially strange when you consider that this is a movie practically begging to burst out into full-scale production numbers throughout. Like the film, the soundtrack is a strange and lovely meditation of life, love and death that is shot through with a lot of humor and which finds Prince pursuing his own distinct personal vision, no matter what the possible commercial repercussions might have been.




As it turned out, those repercussions would prove to be somewhat severe because when “Under the Cherry Moon” premiered, it was largely lambasted by critics (though a few critics, including J. Hoberman, were brave enough to defend it); when audiences discovered that it was a Prince film that was in black-and-white, that he didn’t sing much and that wasn’t “Purple Rain 2,” they stayed away. To be fair, even if the film had been a more conventional outing, there is a good chance that it still would have failed, as while “Purple Rain” was released at a time when the Hollywood/MTV crossover was at its zenith, this one happened to come at a time when the marketplace was glutted with films starring rock stars who were being rejected by even their most ardent fans—it came out a couple of weeks after David Bowie turned up in the Jim Henson fantasy “Labyrinth” and a few weeks before the infamous Madonna bomb “Shanghai Surprise.”




After its failure, Prince seemed to lose interest in the filmmaking process, possibly because he found it difficult to reconcile his one-man-band approach to creating music with the filmmaking process in which hundreds of pairs of hands are required to create even the most singular of visions. In 1987, he directed “Sign ‘O’ the Times,” a concert film tying in with the double album of the same name that caught him at one of his peaks as a live performer but which remains frustratingly unavailable, at least in America.




In 1990, he finally gave everyone the “Purple Rain” sequel they had been clamoring for, but the result, “Graffiti Bridge” (1990), was so silly—though it did contain a killer soundtrack that alone makes it worth watching at least once—that it seemed as if he was trying to kill off his movie career for good. If that was the case, mission accomplished because unless he has a surprise or two in his fabled vault, he never directed a feature film again, though he would do the occasional soundtrack work, most famously for the first “Batman” movie, and turned in a memorable, though admittedly head-scratching, appearance on the sitcom “New Girl.”




Even though I consider it to be the better film, I know that “Under the Cherry Moon” will never threaten “Purple Rain”s placement in the pop culture firmament. And yet, if “Purple Rain” is the “Citizen Kane” of Prince movies—the instant classic that will always be celebrated—then “Under the Cherry Moon” is the “Touch of Evil”—a far more disreputable film that is so delightfully deranged that you stare at it in amazement that such a thing could have possibly emerged from a Hollywood studio.




It plays better now than it did when it came out. With Prince’s untimely death sending both ardent fans and newcomers to his vast and fascinating oeuvre, hopefully some will take a chance and give it another shot and discover for themselves just how good it really is.




Maybe some brave soul will even go so far as to book it as a midnight show so that fans can come together at last to see what they missed out on 30 years earlier. Either way, they will come out of it amused, dazzled and with an immediate desire to purchase the soundtrack if they do not already have it. If you do watch it, make sure that you have a wrecka stow handy.

[Edited 1/25/19 19:36pm]

Wow, that probably took a lot of time to write that.

"Wish eye had a dollar 4 everytime U say, don't U miss the feeling Music gave u, back in the day"
- Prince (2004)
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Reply #85 posted 01/27/19 3:24pm

SoulAlive

I think the movie would have worked better if it had been in color

Image result for under the cherry moon in colorImage result for under the cherry moon in colorImage result for under the cherry moon in colorImage result for under the cherry moon in colorImage result for under the cherry moon in colorImage result for under the cherry moon in color

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Reply #86 posted 01/27/19 3:40pm

violetcrush

^^^ Wow, I think I have to agree with that. Would be SO great if we could get a hold of the color version!!!

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Reply #87 posted 01/27/19 3:43pm

herb4

bonatoc said:

I don't think some of you grasp how much Prince was mocking himself.
There is something totally humble about the performance:
it's honest. Prince tries to stay grounded, but also shows you
what suddenly his life has turned into.
It's luxury refined, not the back of a Limousine.
I'm sorry, but the vast majority of the USofA
look a tad tacky to european minds.

You need to have fallen in love with France to dig UTCM.
And have the chance to sleep in one of his many castles.
It's all about the Baguette, Honey!

Peut-être nos amis américains sont-ils jaloux
che ci sia un Prince anche Europeo...
(not looking for transatlantic wars here, just sayin')



That's a reach.

I honestly believe Prince was taking this whole thing seriously and there was no tongue in cheek about it. The Big Death Scene with Tricky crying...? It was meant to be dramatic. Not goofy./

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Reply #88 posted 01/27/19 4:12pm

ufoclub

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herb4 said:

Sign O the Times is the best Prince movie and he even tried to muck that one up with hints of a "plot"

Come to think of it, he did this a lot and it almost always sucked and detracted from the film

If only Albert Magnoli had directed Under the Cherry Moon (since he did direct "Purple Rain", ghost directed "Sign o' the Times", and directed the Batdance and Partyman videos. He knew how to work a cinematic version of Prince.

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Reply #89 posted 01/27/19 4:17pm

violetcrush

ufoclub said:

herb4 said:

Sign O the Times is the best Prince movie and he even tried to muck that one up with hints of a "plot"

Come to think of it, he did this a lot and it almost always sucked and detracted from the film

If only Albert Magnoli had directed Under the Cherry Moon (since he did direct "Purple Rain", ghost directed "Sign o' the Times", and directed the Batdance and Partyman videos. He knew how to work a cinematic version of Prince.

Good point. Although, by that point Prince thought he could drive that train and be just as successful confused

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