Popcorn said:

True..but I'm talkin about the cost. Some people frown at the cost of entering a night club or cost of food at a nice restaurant.."10-20 bucks to get in?..lets go to the park, turn up the car-system, grab a six pack and drink it in the parking lot"..good! And STAY out!

Anji said:

The moderator over there already tripped on the subject of Kevin Smith and they made the curse words you type into symbols. how can I get my "the fuck outta here with that bullshit" on with stuff like that going on?

rdhull said:

You ever been a nightclub bouncer, Rd?

By the way, you should never pay to get into a nightclub.

Anji said:[quote]

rdhull said:

No but Ive been trhown out by one once

how rude! I was all idignant lol.



True--but I cant always make those underground password scenes. I have to go where the regular people go

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[This message was edited Fri May 23 8:54:53 PDT 2003 by Popcorn]

(cue the music for Rd: Movie Star)

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[This message was edited Fri May 23 8:54:36 PDT 2003 by Popcorn]

Popcorn said:

I NEVER complained about the 100 dollar price. In fact was osteracized a bit when I said "ha! and stay out McDonalds workers"

Popcorn said:

So am I..as far as Im concerened, everthing since my concert seats etc is just gravy.

Anji said:

Not everyone allows market forces to rule their decision making or world view.

Also, the two 'services' are not competing. One is $25 and offers some things that the other--which is free--does not (or can not) offer. Conversely, the openness and frankness of discussions at the .ORG are unlikely to be replicated at the NPGMC. That being said, the free for all has its drawbacks too... a quick glance through some of the posts at the .ORG bears that out quite well.

Plus where else are we going to get a chance to talk with the world reknown music critic-journalist-biographer Alex Hahn??? Bwaaahaahaaahaahahahahaahahaha

NuPwrSoul said:

that lawyer guy right?

NuPwrSoul said:

Market forces are usually dictated by majority rule. I wouldn't be surprised if the differences to this year's NPGMC were the direct result of the constructive criticism the club received last year. If you accept this theory then it can be concluded that Prince is actually responding to his competition, whatever that might be.

As for NPGMC and Prince.org offering different services, it's written in the rules.

Anji said:

I hear what you're saying but what exactly can be considered "Prince's competition"? Another source for Prince's material, direct from himself? Had the "constructive criticism" not been "responded to" where exactly would people go (legally) to get new music and videos by Prince?

Each year so far the music club has been different. That is no doubt connected to how people saw the previous year, from both the club's and members' perspectives. But I think that market forces alone have failed to explain many of Prince's decisions which many argue actually undermine his efforts to compete in the marketplace, based on the so many pieces of advice floating around the 'net telling Prince what he should do.

Establishing a graphic, resource intensive site that requires streaming every time one accesses audio or video (thus eating up bandwidth allowances on servers) for $25 one time fee does not seem to be the most marketable way to go in the most capitalistic sense.

There seems to be something else at work.

rdhull said:

What's the deal w/ Kevin as a topic? Was somebody told not to talk about it or something? I must hear this!!

ian said:

Very true which brings your next statement home - that they should have done it that way a long time ago The Org ain't unique at all in terms of websites in general, but when it comes to Prince related sites, the Org is the best IMO. Makes sense for them to come to the place where most of his online fans gather, so who can blame them for wanting to emulate the best? I dig what they're doing, it'll only get better

CalhounSq said:

Agreed. Traditionally Prince's online communication with his fans has been akin to that of a preacher and a congregation. Conversation was strictly one-way. I used to bitch about it because I saw sites like PublicEnemy.com and how cool Chuck D is about conversing with fans on an equal basis in the forums etc. Hopefully the new style NPGMC is a sign of a long-term change of mindset for Prince's online businesses... encouraging a bit of two-way conversation is no bad thing.

Really, it isn't hard to better the Org technically. There are better looking forums (Housequake) and better chat systems (NPGMC). What the Org does have though is a large community of regular visitors... the people on the Org are the main asset of the site.

Personally I wouldn't complain if NPGMC got better and Prince.org got a bit quieter... but I think there'll always be a place for "independent and unofficial" fansite. We ain't joined the collective y'hear!

ian said:

Don't count on it. Like you said: conversation is striclty one way and messages are only posted when they are first approved by the paisley thought police.

NuPwrSoul said:

legally nowhere, because prince has monplised his music and releases. But trading among fans, filesharing and bootleggers are the factual competition.


Basically each year has been the same:
1) "NEW" Prince music; year 1 each month at least 3 new prince songs. Year 2 at least 4 new prince albums. year 3 remains to be seen, but one can expect Prince to release a cd and they want more than the 25$ per member.
2) A promise of a tour was made in year 1, but didn't materialise. Year 2 it did. Don't be suprised if they come up with a teaser of more concert "oppurtunities" soon.
3) Year 1 and 2 also had the promise of chatrooms and other "interactive" features. Both years didn't materialise in that respect. This year does, but then... it costs you 25$ to chat on prince's website.

So basically they promised each year the same, but factually did something different each year by not keep their promises.


His decisions do undermine his efforts, because he chases long time fans away with his terrible customer service, terrible website graphics, terrible failures to comply with promises made, terrible unsollicited emails, and terribly greedy prices for cd's and concerts.


No, it doesn't seem that way and it isn't the most marketable way to go. But who ever said that Prince was a smart businessman?


If you ask me, he is capitalising, in his own weird way, on the remaining fans he has, as much as he can, before he is completely washed out. It will have to take a miracle to make mr.control see that he needs to be truly free, instead of locking his good songs up in vaults, locking his fans up in contracts that are not fullfilled and locking his mind up with the idea that every fan iswaiting for him to send unsollicited religious emails....just to give a few examples....

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[This message was edited Wed Apr 23 8:04:35 PDT 2003 by huggy]

huggy said:

spoken like a true Hahnist. well done

NuPwrSoul said:

I didn't read his book, but if you ask me about a rise and fall of Prince's music, business ventures and relationship with his fanbase, yes a fall has definitly taken place.

huggy said:

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A fall has taken place because of the overall state of the music industry. Something that was not Prince's fault.
At the rate that people are downloading music and burning disc no artist is going to sell millions of copies anymore.

laurarichardson said:

Partly it wasn't it his fault. For example it wasn't his fault that commercialisation went so far. On the other hand, Prince commercialised himself too.


I again partly agree. The quality of nowdays music has a lot to do with it. There are and still will be artists selling millions, but not as easy as before. The fear of unauthorized copying already existed when tape recorders became popuar as well. In the end the industry only got richer. So it is a matter of how the artists and companies deal with it. Prince doesn't deal with it in a smart way.