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Reply #120 posted 01/26/19 8:43am

bonatoc

avatar

violetcrush said:

bonatoc said:



No, wait. The singer in this one is clearly high on something.
And you can't play the "Purple Music" card twice.
« That's the rules. » biggrin


I'm a rule-breaker, what can I say??? Guess I need to get back to the schoolyard biggrin

*

I actually do think all or most of his songs referencing drugs were either coming from his perspective as an observer of the "scene", or coming from a "you shouldn't do drugs" platform.

*

Does that mean he always practiced what he was preaching? Probably not cool


Yeah, 'd better put yo good glasses on.
Freakiest ones, etc.

Brothers in Blues, or some like that.
Prince liked (led) a hard life.
I can't judge him, really can't.

When love hits, it hits hard — the fans the most.
Prince first, Prince first.

Some already did. Messieurs, tirez les premiers.
M'am Positivité, I plead guilty as charged.

[Edited 1/26/19 9:00am]

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #121 posted 01/26/19 9:09am

bonatoc

avatar

funksterr said:

He said he was planning to end his, you know during PR. I asked him why didn't he do it. His reply: "You". I'm like, but I didn't know you then. Eventually I learn his biggest fear was that he'd do something and then have a ton of fan copycats go as well and it would be his fault. This was like 20 years or so before he passed away. But that fear of what he might unintentionaly inspire, knowledge of that, becomes a tool to keep him from doing stupid stuff. And he was referencing that quite heavily in his final years. The way he was is that he'd fight to find good reasons not to.. you know. He'd swear that he's going to something, and argue you down, keeping you up all night, knocking down all your reasons he shouldn't until you are worn down and like 'well I guess you are going to do it', then he'd change his mind and the the next morning want to plan his next big thing like nothing happened. Every 9 months or so he'd do that, over decades. The mentality he has on ML to me, is shocking, because I had forgot about that song until recently. Never really dug it. But it's shocking because that is exactly how he was acting IRL in the 90's. Dream Factory as well. I knew about TLWM and Goodbye, but those other two songs, which I had heard was about other people in his crew.. are clearly him to my ears based on the behavior I experienced. Which leads to why everybody in his crew lie so much about his sobriety and never talk of his apparantley severe mental health issues dating back to before PR. What are they covering up? I know some things from later, but what happened in the 80's that caused them to float this whopping lie that he don't do this and that? IDK.

More about ML... the idea of needing to lean on another person to live at all. Man, that's him IRL. He swore me to several agreements all around him living vs not living. 'When I get like that, Promise you will come help me out'. 'If I can't for me, and you can't for you, then we will for each other'. Only to then act recklessly as hell. I said this before, but, for him... you know, him living is YOUR responsibility, not his. 'Cause he don't give a eff. He want to go to Heaven, yada yada yada.

ML... is this even art??? Or does this man need professional services? How did we miss this as a fanbase? How did his management? How did his family? Half Prince catalog reference suic-sunm incl PR. Jeffrey Osborne ain't got no sui smn song. Prince got dozens, at least.



Dozens of songs about the subject everywhere in rock'n'roll.
Eros and Thanatos. Prince defined.


Is There a Link Between Intelligence and Mental Illness?

Many times the eccentric tendencies of genius are associated with mental illness

Posted Mar 10, 2015

Plagued by mental health disorders—such as depression, bipolar polar disorder, and schizophrenia—are a host of artists, writers and famous people throughout history. In fact, many times the eccentric tendencies of genius are associated with mental illness.

An article in Medical Daily titled “Why Smarter People Are More Likely to Be Mentally Ill” claims over thirty studies have documented the connection, concluding:

“Affecting some 2.5 percent of the U.S. population, bipolar disorder alone has touched many of our greatest achievers, including Vincent Van Gogh, Buzz Aldrin, Emily Dickinson, and Ernest Hemingway.”

The answer to the question “why” remains somewhat elusive and any evidence of a link between mental illness and creativity has not convinced some scientists. Early this year in the Huffington Post, another article claimed, “the cognitive-neuroscience community is divided on whether a scientific link between creativity and mental illness actually exists.”

The controversy may stem from trying to define such an abstract idea as creativity, along with the difficulty of establishing a method of measuring it. This needs to be established in order to be able to quantify any future research results.

But there is evidence that there could be a link between intelligence and bipolar disorder. Lead researcher James MacCabe, wrote in a study published in the British Journal of Psychiatry.

“We found that achieving an A grade is associated with increased risk for bipolar disorder, particularly in humanities and to a lesser extent in science subjects. These findings provide support for the hypothesis that exceptional intellectual ability is associated with bipolar disorder.”

The Huffington Post article “What Neuroscience Has To Say About the Tortured Genius” wrote:

Historically, there have been creative thinkers who spoke about mental illness giving them their edge. "My fear of life is necessary to me, as is my illness," the artist Edvard Munch, thought to have had bipolar disorder, once wrote, according to Smithsonian magazine. "Without anxiety and illness, I am a ship without a rudder ... My sufferings are part of myself and my art. They are indistinguishable from me, and their destruction would destroy my art."

This is idea that suffering is necessary for art is hotly debated among artists and scientists. While it is important not to dismiss anyone’s feelings or experience, the fact that mental illness influences those feelings cannot and should not be ignored in the process of improving overall health. Bipolar disorder, depression, addiction and other psychiatric/psychological disorders are debilitating and life-threatening conditions, and although society may benefits from the productivity of these geniuses, their health must be taken into consideration. Intelligence will not simply disappear due to improvement in mental health, so creative genius will not necessarily disappear or not manifest itself if a person seeks treatment. A health care professional can provide more information.







...





Is it art?
I dunno,
you tell me.

If SKipper was high as a kite
when he was singing about his marriage
and new-found horizons,
given the Man (amen) he was,
I'll let him B.

The video alone is exhibit of the state he's in.
That tacky photoshop bleeding Technicolor® blurs...
Have mercy.



[Edited 1/26/19 9:15am]

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #122 posted 01/26/19 9:46am

violetcrush

bonatoc said:

funksterr said:

He said he was planning to end his, you know during PR. I asked him why didn't he do it. His reply: "You". I'm like, but I didn't know you then. Eventually I learn his biggest fear was that he'd do something and then have a ton of fan copycats go as well and it would be his fault. This was like 20 years or so before he passed away. But that fear of what he might unintentionaly inspire, knowledge of that, becomes a tool to keep him from doing stupid stuff. And he was referencing that quite heavily in his final years. The way he was is that he'd fight to find good reasons not to.. you know. He'd swear that he's going to something, and argue you down, keeping you up all night, knocking down all your reasons he shouldn't until you are worn down and like 'well I guess you are going to do it', then he'd change his mind and the the next morning want to plan his next big thing like nothing happened. Every 9 months or so he'd do that, over decades. The mentality he has on ML to me, is shocking, because I had forgot about that song until recently. Never really dug it. But it's shocking because that is exactly how he was acting IRL in the 90's. Dream Factory as well. I knew about TLWM and Goodbye, but those other two songs, which I had heard was about other people in his crew.. are clearly him to my ears based on the behavior I experienced. Which leads to why everybody in his crew lie so much about his sobriety and never talk of his apparantley severe mental health issues dating back to before PR. What are they covering up? I know some things from later, but what happened in the 80's that caused them to float this whopping lie that he don't do this and that? IDK.

More about ML... the idea of needing to lean on another person to live at all. Man, that's him IRL. He swore me to several agreements all around him living vs not living. 'When I get like that, Promise you will come help me out'. 'If I can't for me, and you can't for you, then we will for each other'. Only to then act recklessly as hell. I said this before, but, for him... you know, him living is YOUR responsibility, not his. 'Cause he don't give a eff. He want to go to Heaven, yada yada yada.

ML... is this even art??? Or does this man need professional services? How did we miss this as a fanbase? How did his management? How did his family? Half Prince catalog reference suic-sunm incl PR. Jeffrey Osborne ain't got no sui smn song. Prince got dozens, at least.



Dozens of songs about the subject everywhere in rock'n'roll.
Eros and Thanatos. Prince defined.


Is There a Link Between Intelligence and Mental Illness?

Many times the eccentric tendencies of genius are associated with mental illness

Posted Mar 10, 2015

Plagued by mental health disorders—such as depression, bipolar polar disorder, and schizophrenia—are a host of artists, writers and famous people throughout history. In fact, many times the eccentric tendencies of genius are associated with mental illness.

An article in Medical Daily titled “Why Smarter People Are More Likely to Be Mentally Ill” claims over thirty studies have documented the connection, concluding:

“Affecting some 2.5 percent of the U.S. population, bipolar disorder alone has touched many of our greatest achievers, including Vincent Van Gogh, Buzz Aldrin, Emily Dickinson, and Ernest Hemingway.”

The answer to the question “why” remains somewhat elusive and any evidence of a link between mental illness and creativity has not convinced some scientists. Early this year in the Huffington Post, another article claimed, “the cognitive-neuroscience community is divided on whether a scientific link between creativity and mental illness actually exists.”

The controversy may stem from trying to define such an abstract idea as creativity, along with the difficulty of establishing a method of measuring it. This needs to be established in order to be able to quantify any future research results.

But there is evidence that there could be a link between intelligence and bipolar disorder. Lead researcher James MacCabe, wrote in a study published in the British Journal of Psychiatry.

“We found that achieving an A grade is associated with increased risk for bipolar disorder, particularly in humanities and to a lesser extent in science subjects. These findings provide support for the hypothesis that exceptional intellectual ability is associated with bipolar disorder.”

The Huffington Post article “What Neuroscience Has To Say About the Tortured Genius” wrote:

Historically, there have been creative thinkers who spoke about mental illness giving them their edge. "My fear of life is necessary to me, as is my illness," the artist Edvard Munch, thought to have had bipolar disorder, once wrote, according to Smithsonian magazine. "Without anxiety and illness, I am a ship without a rudder ... My sufferings are part of myself and my art. They are indistinguishable from me, and their destruction would destroy my art."

This is idea that suffering is necessary for art is hotly debated among artists and scientists. While it is important not to dismiss anyone’s feelings or experience, the fact that mental illness influences those feelings cannot and should not be ignored in the process of improving overall health. Bipolar disorder, depression, addiction and other psychiatric/psychological disorders are debilitating and life-threatening conditions, and although society may benefits from the productivity of these geniuses, their health must be taken into consideration. Intelligence will not simply disappear due to improvement in mental health, so creative genius will not necessarily disappear or not manifest itself if a person seeks treatment. A health care professional can provide more information.







...





Is it art?
I dunno,
you tell me.

If SKipper was high as a kite
when he was singing about his marriage
and new-found horizons,
given the Man (amen) he was,
I'll let him B.

The video alone is exhibit of the state he's in.
That tacky photoshop bleeding Technicolor® blurs...
Have mercy.



[Edited 1/26/19 9:15am]

Ah yes... The Holy River. So many think he's referencing the marriage here, but to me he's talking specifically about his relationship with God - well...and maybe also trying to convince himself that he's ready to be monogamous smile

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Reply #123 posted 01/26/19 9:54am

bonatoc

avatar

^ that too.
But your monogamy statement smells a bit.
He wasn't doomed to be a womanizer.
Like, some disease... Come on.
There's no doubt he was faithful
when truly in love, as everyone is.

The song is still as potent to me after all this time.
It's one lovely, moving polaroid.
It's Minnesota underneath the snow.

Bulldozed to the ground, alas.
Having the privilege to have kids, I think Prince. Took it. rather. gracefully.
(nuts doesn't begin to describe it)
I feel sorry for Mayte.
I feel sorry for them, always will.

But others here with us would have ended on Rope St.
B4 him.

There stood a Man for many years after that, amen.

There is no point in celebrating faults.
The Org sure isn't very "asm" these days.
It's getting dark in here.
Like in a Batcave.




I ain't afraid of shit,
but bats creep me out.
Quick! Out! out!



[Edited 1/26/19 10:35am]

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #124 posted 01/26/19 11:37am

poppys

Prince is often a mignonette pocket doll to his fans. Even the most devoted ones. They take him out, dress him up for the day and come up with all kinds of cockamamie scenarios.

Such as - he should never have built Paisley Park, made this or that movie or album, gotten with that woman, made that deal - or not - etc etc. It's my least favorite game to play besides mining the death details ad nauseum.

Take anything away from anyone's life, even if you think it is negative, and you just might change the oxygen they lived for. No one really knows what makes anyone tick. It's egotistical thinking.

politics: the art or science of government.
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Reply #125 posted 01/26/19 12:06pm

luvsexy4all

poppys said:

Prince is often a mignonette pocket doll to his fans. Even the most devoted ones. They take him out, dress him up for the day and come up with all kinds of cockamamie scenarios.

Such as - he should never have built Paisley Park, made this or that movie or album, gotten with that woman, made that deal - or not - etc etc. It's my least favorite game to play besides mining the death details ad nauseum.

Take anything away from anyone's life, even if you think it is negative, and you just might change the oxygen they lived for. No one really knows what makes anyone tick. It's egotistical thinking.

all true...he should of just released more music

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Reply #126 posted 01/26/19 12:12pm

poppys



[Edited 1/26/19 14:43pm]

politics: the art or science of government.
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Reply #127 posted 01/26/19 12:18pm

violetcrush

bonatoc said:

^ that too.
But your monogamy statement smells a bit.
He wasn't doomed to be a womanizer.
Like, some disease... Come on.
There's no doubt he was faithful
when truly in love, as everyone is.

The song is still as potent to me after all this time.
It's one lovely, moving polaroid.
It's Minnesota underneath the snow.

Bulldozed to the ground, alas.
Having the privilege to have kids, I think Prince. Took it. rather. gracefully.
(nuts doesn't begin to describe it)
I feel sorry for Mayte.
I feel sorry for them, always will.

But others here with us would have ended on Rope St.
B4 him.

There stood a Man for many years after that, amen.

There is no point in celebrating faults.
The Org sure isn't very "asm" these days.
It's getting dark in here.
Like in a Batcave.




I ain't afraid of shit,
but bats creep me out.
Quick! Out! out!



[Edited 1/26/19 10:35am]

No, I do agree that he did really seem to try to make an effort with the marriage. It really was a tragedy, and one that I wouldn't wish on anyone. Just awful. It's very sad to hear the stories of how he always wanted to see pictures of, and/or how sweet he was when meeting his friend's and past associate's kids. sad

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Reply #128 posted 01/26/19 3:40pm

SchlomoThaHomo

avatar

funksterr said:

He said he was planning to end his, you know during PR. I asked him why didn't he do it. His reply: "You". I'm like, but I didn't know you then. Eventually I learn his biggest fear was that he'd do something and then have a ton of fan copycats go as well and it would be his fault. This was like 20 years or so before he passed away. But that fear of what he might unintentionaly inspire, knowledge of that, becomes a tool to keep him from doing stupid stuff. And he was referencing that quite heavily in his final years. The way he was is that he'd fight to find good reasons not to.. you know. He'd swear that he's going to something, and argue you down, keeping you up all night, knocking down all your reasons he shouldn't until you are worn down and like 'well I guess you are going to do it', then he'd change his mind and the the next morning want to plan his next big thing like nothing happened. Every 9 months or so he'd do that, over decades. The mentality he has on ML to me, is shocking, because I had forgot about that song until recently. Never really dug it. But it's shocking because that is exactly how he was acting IRL in the 90's. Dream Factory as well. I knew about TLWM and Goodbye, but those other two songs, which I had heard was about other people in his crew.. are clearly him to my ears based on the behavior I experienced. Which leads to why everybody in his crew lie so much about his sobriety and never talk of his apparantley severe mental health issues dating back to before PR. What are they covering up? I know some things from later, but what happened in the 80's that caused them to float this whopping lie that he don't do this and that? IDK.

More about ML... the idea of needing to lean on another person to live at all. Man, that's him IRL. He swore me to several agreements all around him living vs not living. 'When I get like that, Promise you will come help me out'. 'If I can't for me, and you can't for you, then we will for each other'. Only to then act recklessly as hell. I said this before, but, for him... you know, him living is YOUR responsibility, not his. 'Cause he don't give a eff. He want to go to Heaven, yada yada yada.

ML... is this even art??? Or does this man need professional services? How did we miss this as a fanbase? How did his management? How did his family? Half Prince catalog reference suic-sunm incl PR. Jeffrey Osborne ain't got no sui smn song. Prince got dozens, at least.



So you’re saying Prince told you he was suicidal and has been for decades?
"That's when stars collide. When there's space for what u want, and ur heart is open wide."
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Reply #129 posted 01/27/19 11:47am

violetcrush

SchlomoThaHomo said:

funksterr said:

He said he was planning to end his, you know during PR. I asked him why didn't he do it. His reply: "You". I'm like, but I didn't know you then. Eventually I learn his biggest fear was that he'd do something and then have a ton of fan copycats go as well and it would be his fault. This was like 20 years or so before he passed away. But that fear of what he might unintentionaly inspire, knowledge of that, becomes a tool to keep him from doing stupid stuff. And he was referencing that quite heavily in his final years. The way he was is that he'd fight to find good reasons not to.. you know. He'd swear that he's going to something, and argue you down, keeping you up all night, knocking down all your reasons he shouldn't until you are worn down and like 'well I guess you are going to do it', then he'd change his mind and the the next morning want to plan his next big thing like nothing happened. Every 9 months or so he'd do that, over decades. The mentality he has on ML to me, is shocking, because I had forgot about that song until recently. Never really dug it. But it's shocking because that is exactly how he was acting IRL in the 90's. Dream Factory as well. I knew about TLWM and Goodbye, but those other two songs, which I had heard was about other people in his crew.. are clearly him to my ears based on the behavior I experienced. Which leads to why everybody in his crew lie so much about his sobriety and never talk of his apparantley severe mental health issues dating back to before PR. What are they covering up? I know some things from later, but what happened in the 80's that caused them to float this whopping lie that he don't do this and that? IDK.

More about ML... the idea of needing to lean on another person to live at all. Man, that's him IRL. He swore me to several agreements all around him living vs not living. 'When I get like that, Promise you will come help me out'. 'If I can't for me, and you can't for you, then we will for each other'. Only to then act recklessly as hell. I said this before, but, for him... you know, him living is YOUR responsibility, not his. 'Cause he don't give a eff. He want to go to Heaven, yada yada yada.

ML... is this even art??? Or does this man need professional services? How did we miss this as a fanbase? How did his management? How did his family? Half Prince catalog reference suic-sunm incl PR. Jeffrey Osborne ain't got no sui smn song. Prince got dozens, at least.

So you’re saying Prince told you he was suicidal and has been for decades?

I guess I'm really out of the loop here....so funksterr was personally connected to Prince (friend, band member, or associate??) through the 90's?? If so, was he around when Prince (per Mayte Garcia's statments) took too many pills and was rushed to get his stomach pumped?

*

Some of this rings true based on Prince's own comments to Neal Karlen in 1985. He admitted to going into a serious depression, and having to call people to help him recover from that.

*

There is also the whole Black Album period, and the "E" trip.

*

Seems as though it is very possible that he suffered from serious bouts of depression. Susan Rogers has spoken of this as well. She stated at one point she mentioned seeing a therapist, but he wouldn't hear of it. I believe she said he looked at that as a sign of weakness.

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Reply #130 posted 01/27/19 8:06pm

rdhull

avatar

We need to stop with this Prince Was A Dour Person Through and Through bs. There's a 5 sec snippet from the Mountains video workprint with Jerome saying something and Prince hugging him with the utmost joy/love that dispels a lot of conjuncture. Not saying that he didnt have some emotional issues here and there but this new narrative since 2016 of makin out Prince to be chronically depressed and sad is tiring, bogus, and a lie.

[Edited 1/27/19 20:39pm]

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
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Reply #131 posted 01/27/19 10:16pm

violetcrush

rdhull said:

We need to stop with this Prince Was A Dour Person Through and Through bs. There's a 5 sec snippet from the Mountains video workprint with Jerome saying something and Prince hugging him with the utmost joy/love that dispels a lot of conjuncture. Not saying that he didnt have some emotional issues here and there but this new narrative since 2016 of makin out Prince to be chronically depressed and sad is tiring, bogus, and a lie.

[Edited 1/27/19 20:39pm]

I agree. There have been too many statements from associates, past girlfriends and others who have confirmed that he loved to joke around, laugh, and had a great sense of humor. However, they also have said he had moods swings, and it wasn't always fun and games with him. Everyone goes through "funk" periods, or times where they are depressed, angry or sad - even the most mentally stable people. Prince would have been no different. Did he have bigger swings? Probably, but he had more going on than our average person too.

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Reply #132 posted 01/28/19 6:40am

rednblue

So, I'm not suggesting anyone contradicted the following.

References to how we can't know that P's emotions, or P's attempts to treat emotional pain, didn't ever get him to a dangerous place...I wouldn't call such references a "narrative." Not a narrative any more than the idea that spendng years as an extremely athletic performer/acrobat/dancer may easily have taken a toll on his body and caused him pain over the years. There is a good deal of evidence (ncluding in music and stunning and punishing performance) for probabilities of both of these ideas, but surely almost nobody here knows the details of the specific where/what/andwhens of any pain.

I think there's decent evidence, from many sources, that P may have had powerful emotions. My favorite one to witness was his irrepressible joy. That Mountains clip that rdhull mentioned is joy personified. Deep feeling, and sharp sense of humor and irony, often make for gifted artists.

Also, love of laughter and fun, and much joyful emotion -- all that doesn't preclude significant painful emotion. It's an not an either/or, and this is often very true even with people who are diagnosed with various sorts of depression. NOT saying that Prince had any sort of medical condition related to mood. I, like most or all here, can't know.

Completely agree that "Prince Was A Dour Person Through and Through" isn't at all true. Maybe I just haven't picked up on what other people have heard, but I don't get this as a strong narrative in the purple world.

What did strike me was that when a good deal of evidence was presented that Prince may have found himself in a difficult place with opiates (like countless others, to include plenty of people that were never "recreational" drug users, plenty that were big on recreational drug (including alcohol and other legal drug use), and plenty that were somewhere in between) a narrative was revealed in people's utter shock and disbelief.

Despite the fact that it is well known that people finding themselves in a difficult place with a substance often hide due to the tendency of the culture to shame this condtion. Despite the fact that it is well known that family/friends/etc. are frequently faced with choosing among few highly imperfect, painful options. Despite the fact that there are countless instances of strongly disciplined and hard working people finding themselves in a difficult place with a substance.

An incredibly powerful and prevalent purple-fam-world narrative was revealed. Part of its story was that older Prince was a person in supreme control who shaped his life to be near exactly what he wanted it to be...that older Prince was the last person in the world who might sometimes struggle with the state of his current earthly life and the last person in the world who might need his fellow human beings to lend him any sort of help.


[Edited 1/28/19 7:00am]

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Reply #133 posted 01/28/19 7:30am

poppys

This is not an overview drug thread. Please don't turn it into one. Off topic.

politics: the art or science of government.
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Reply #134 posted 01/28/19 7:42am

rednblue

poppys said:

This is not an overview drug thread. Please don't turn it into one. Off topic.


A lot of what I said was in response to the comments of many others.

Where is the better place on the Org to post my comment? If it isn't felt to be at all true or wise or postable or of interest on the Org, maybe this isn't the place for me. And that's cool. There's lots of purple places out there.

[Edited 1/28/19 7:44am]

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Reply #135 posted 01/28/19 8:15am

rednblue

poppys said:

Prince is often a mignonette pocket doll to his fans. Even the most devoted ones. They take him out, dress him up for the day and come up with all kinds of cockamamie scenarios.

Such as - he should never have built Paisley Park, made this or that movie or album, gotten with that woman, made that deal - or not - etc etc. It's my least favorite game to play besides mining the death details ad nauseum.

Take anything away from anyone's life, even if you think it is negative, and you just might change the oxygen they lived for. No one really knows what makes anyone tick. It's egotistical thinking.



You know, it could be reasonably argued that the bolded was a classic Prince approach to his proteges.

But I also think that P truly loved most or all of these people, and that he saw seeds of talent and beauty in people, and that he often took great joy in seeing these people grow and flourish.

Also, a couple of things like asking Morris Hayes to go back and take curse words out of music notwithstanding, Prince has clearly stated that he wouldn't be the person he was had the past not unfolded just as it did. I admire Prince enormously for that.

Anyway, you can tell me how either one of these comments directly relates to "Moon Beam levels written after an acid trip? [according to Susan Rogers!]"

Sorry if I'm hitting any nerves.

[Edited 1/28/19 8:28am]

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Reply #136 posted 01/28/19 8:28am

poppys

rednblue said:

poppys said:

This is not an overview drug thread. Please don't turn it into one. Off topic.


A lot of what I said was in response to the comments of many others.

Where is the better place on the Org to post my comment? If it isn't felt to be at all true or wise or postable or of interest on the Org, maybe this isn't the place for me. And that's cool. There's lots of purple places out there.


Y'all can start a Prince drug thread. Or use the death thread maybe.

politics: the art or science of government.
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Reply #137 posted 01/28/19 8:54am

rednblue

poppys said:

rednblue said:


A lot of what I said was in response to the comments of many others.

Where is the better place on the Org to post my comment? If it isn't felt to be at all true or wise or postable or of interest on the Org, maybe this isn't the place for me. And that's cool. There's lots of purple places out there.


Y'all can start a Prince drug thread. Or use the death thread maybe.


So everything about drugs (most of which have effects which can be perceived by the user to be both negative and positive -- I posted a lot earlier about psychedelic drugs like acid, the specific subject of this thread, and even opiates are often perceived by the user to be very energizing, calming and confidence-inducing, not to mention that they are appropriate pain relievers in specific, limited circumstances) is most suited to death threads? The mainstream view of a great deal of drugs involves considering a tradeoff between positive and negative effects. How is an "overview drug thread" mostly death related?

As for this thread and the suggestion of "starting a drug thread," isn't there a drug in the title of this thread? Are you saying, by calling it out in particular, that this comment of mine is a standout on the Org when it comes to being off topic?

I fully admit to having some personal interests and past unfolding of my life that comes through in where my Org comments go, and also comes through in which particular akin subjects I'm not so fond of seeing brought into comments on a topic. Is that true of nobody else here?

*

Should comments about music and its beautiful conveying of deep feeling largely be made on the death thread because deep feeling can occasionally pose danger to lives?

These topics don't magically separate from one another.

We can say positive and concerning aspects of a subject have nothing to do with one another, but saying it doesn't make it so.

[Edited 1/28/19 9:50am]

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Reply #138 posted 01/28/19 9:00am

rednblue

rednblue said:

poppys said:

Prince is often a mignonette pocket doll to his fans. Even the most devoted ones. They take him out, dress him up for the day and come up with all kinds of cockamamie scenarios.

Such as - he should never have built Paisley Park, made this or that movie or album, gotten with that woman, made that deal - or not - etc etc. It's my least favorite game to play besides mining the death details ad nauseum.

Take anything away from anyone's life, even if you think it is negative, and you just might change the oxygen they lived for. No one really knows what makes anyone tick. It's egotistical thinking.



You know, it could be reasonably argued that the bolded was a classic Prince approach to his proteges.

But I also think that P truly loved most or all of these people, and that he saw seeds of talent and beauty in people, and that he often took great joy in seeing these people grow and flourish.

Also, a couple of things like asking Morris Hayes to go back and take curse words out of music notwithstanding, Prince has clearly stated that he wouldn't be the person he was had the past not unfolded just as it did. I admire Prince enormously for that.

Anyway, you can tell me how either one of these comments directly relates to "Moon Beam levels written after an acid trip? [according to Susan Rogers!]"

Sorry if I'm hitting any nerves.

[Edited 1/28/19 8:28am]


Perhaps we should ask the mods if EITHER of above comments is on topic, and where best to post.

In any case, it truly is cool if my stuff isn't what the org wants to hear. There's places for all of us, be it the org or elsewhere.

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Reply #139 posted 01/28/19 9:26am

poppys

This thread is about a specific song, time, and drug. It's probably played out after 5 pages. But that doesn't mean it should become an overview thread about Prince's drug use and the reasons why speculation. No one is saying you can't start your own thread to talk about that.

politics: the art or science of government.
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Reply #140 posted 01/28/19 9:33am

rednblue

poppys said:

This thread is about a specific song, time, and drug. It's probably played out after 5 pages. But that doesn't mean it should become an overview thread about Prince's drug use and the reasons why speculation. No one is saying you can't start your own thread to talk about that.


Have no idea why you're calling out that particular comment, out of all the comments on the Org to include your own comment on this very thread, as getting too far off topic.

Edited to add:

Peace.

[Edited 1/28/19 9:36am]

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Reply #141 posted 01/28/19 1:23pm

luvsexy4all

SchlomoThaHomo said:

funksterr said:

He said he was planning to end his, you know during PR. I asked him why didn't he do it. His reply: "You". I'm like, but I didn't know you then. Eventually I learn his biggest fear was that he'd do something and then have a ton of fan copycats go as well and it would be his fault. This was like 20 years or so before he passed away. But that fear of what he might unintentionaly inspire, knowledge of that, becomes a tool to keep him from doing stupid stuff. And he was referencing that quite heavily in his final years. The way he was is that he'd fight to find good reasons not to.. you know. He'd swear that he's going to something, and argue you down, keeping you up all night, knocking down all your reasons he shouldn't until you are worn down and like 'well I guess you are going to do it', then he'd change his mind and the the next morning want to plan his next big thing like nothing happened. Every 9 months or so he'd do that, over decades. The mentality he has on ML to me, is shocking, because I had forgot about that song until recently. Never really dug it. But it's shocking because that is exactly how he was acting IRL in the 90's. Dream Factory as well. I knew about TLWM and Goodbye, but those other two songs, which I had heard was about other people in his crew.. are clearly him to my ears based on the behavior I experienced. Which leads to why everybody in his crew lie so much about his sobriety and never talk of his apparantley severe mental health issues dating back to before PR. What are they covering up? I know some things from later, but what happened in the 80's that caused them to float this whopping lie that he don't do this and that? IDK.

More about ML... the idea of needing to lean on another person to live at all. Man, that's him IRL. He swore me to several agreements all around him living vs not living. 'When I get like that, Promise you will come help me out'. 'If I can't for me, and you can't for you, then we will for each other'. Only to then act recklessly as hell. I said this before, but, for him... you know, him living is YOUR responsibility, not his. 'Cause he don't give a eff. He want to go to Heaven, yada yada yada.

ML... is this even art??? Or does this man need professional services? How did we miss this as a fanbase? How did his management? How did his family? Half Prince catalog reference suic-sunm incl PR. Jeffrey Osborne ain't got no sui smn song. Prince got dozens, at least.

So you’re saying Prince told you he was suicidal and has been for decades?

not a surprize...very lonely...misunderstood

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Reply #142 posted 01/28/19 3:24pm

herb4

avatar

Yeah, I don't think displays many of the benchmarks for cliical depression or abusive recreational drug use either. I think he nacissistic, trust and control issues but that's to be expected from his uprbringing.


Why does pain and suffering make such great art?

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Reply #143 posted 01/28/19 4:04pm

violetcrush

herb4 said:

Yeah, I don't think displays many of the benchmarks for cliical depression or abusive recreational drug use either. I think he nacissistic, trust and control issues but that's to be expected from his uprbringing.


Why does pain and suffering make such great art?

Right, and then when you add heartbreak to the mix you've got some seriously amazing music (Adore, Condition Of The Heart, EmptyRoom, Solo, Goodbye....)

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Reply #144 posted 01/28/19 4:08pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

luvsexy4all said:

SchlomoThaHomo said:

funksterr said: So you’re saying Prince told you he was suicidal and has been for decades?

not a surprize...very lonely...misunderstood


Nope, nope, and nope. Absolutely incorrect.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
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Reply #145 posted 01/28/19 6:53pm

rdhull

avatar

luvsexy4all said:

SchlomoThaHomo said:

funksterr said: So you’re saying Prince told you he was suicidal and has been for decades?

not a surprize...very lonely...misunderstood

log off

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
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Reply #146 posted 01/28/19 8:18pm

Mumio

avatar

rdhull said:

luvsexy4all said:

not a surprize...very lonely...misunderstood

log off

lol lol

Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
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Reply #147 posted 01/29/19 3:21am

bonatoc

avatar

herb4 said:

Yeah, I don't think displays many of the benchmarks for cliical depression or abusive recreational drug use either. I think he nacissistic, trust and control issues but that's to be expected from his uprbringing.


Why does pain and suffering make such great art?


This classic quote does not stick with Prince.

His sad songs are fanstastic, but he wouldn't be the same artist
without his bright side. In fact, most rock artists, if not all,
look and sound like pathetics fucks. Always sobbing about something.
Prince had a much wider palette.
And it's not easy to write about joy.
Pain? Suffering? These horses have been beated to death in pop music.

Something that will wlays be hard to grasp, is his work pace.
Whatever we consider normal functioning in relationships
requires a minimum of time spent interacting.
How wonder the time budget Prince reserved for his interactions.
Because part of it is also being there, listening.
He probably did that from time from time, be then an emotion comes
and quick, he has to run to the studio to imprint it.
This life journal of his was an obsession to him.
It's what The Vault was: his daily log.
Was Prince spending more time writing about life
than truly experiencing it? Emotions can be a toll to hypersensitives.
They are deformed and become giant, overwhelming emotions
where to others, they're not that devastating.

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #148 posted 01/29/19 3:53am

benni

avatar

rednblue said:

herb4 said:


From a safety standpoinbt, psychadelics are extremely low risk provided you're in a safe environment and dont's try to drive or something. AS far as harm to you body, long term abuse or addicitve tendencies, you're good and, believe it or not, there's been some success treating depression and ptsd with them. They CAN open doors and widen a person's perceptions in lasting ways so in a certain sense I can see a positive in their increasing popularity.

BEtter than alcohol, coke, heroin and many legal pills.


Yes! As I'm sure you know, there has also been some success in treating other psychiatric conditions, including addiction.

I suspect that whether and how much these substances may be therapeutic/advisable will vary a lot from person to person. A very individual thing.

For the most part, I can't speak from personal experience with these substances. Other than alcohol, have no experience with any of the substances mentioned above. I've never smoked, and these days I don't even drink alcohol. I DO drink a ton of coffee.

To thedance and others who may see potential only for evil for everyone...while there are instances where a drug brings people nothing but misery and sometimes death, the following abstract and article is worth checking out if you are up for it. There are many articles that discuss the topic, in medical journals (as is the case with the abstract and article below) and other sorts of publications.

Title: "Go Ask Alice": The Case for Researching Schedule I Drugs."

"Abstract: The available treatments for disorders affecting large segments of the population are often costly, complex, and only marginally effective, and many have numerous side effects. These disorders include dementias, debilitating neurological disorders, the multiple types of drug addiction, and the spectrum of mental health disorders.Preliminary studies have shown that a variety of psychedelic and similar U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration Schedule I drugs may offer better treatment options than those that currently exist and pose potentially the same or even less risk than do legal psychoactive (alcohol, caffeine, nicotine) and nonpsychoactive (aspirin, acetaminophen, ibuprofen) substances. The pharmaceutical industry and academia, however, have largely avoided this avenue of research.Fairness to the affected populations demands that these drugs be adequately studied and, if they or their congeners are shown to be effective, made available with the proper caveats, instructions, and protections that other potentially abused medications (e.g., narcotics) receive. These substances may prove to relieve patients' struggles with less effective treatments and decrease mortality from nontreatment of some conditions."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih....d/30570473


Title: "Psychedelic drugs in the treatment of anxiety, depression and addiction"

Quote from this article:

"MAIN MESSAGE: There is growing interest in clinical trials of classic psychedelic drugs for the treatment of mental disorders. Classic psychedelic drugs appear to pose little risk of serious adverse effects. Classic psychedelic drugs, especially psilocybin, have been tested in several recent clinical trials, with promising results. Classic psychedelic drugs should be tested in systematic clinical trials to determine their therapeutic potential."


https://tidsskriftet.no/e...-addiction


Thank you for posting these.

I would add that psychedelics, such as mushrooms and even LSD, have shown to be non-addictive and shown to not lead to other drug usage. While they can effect the mind, they do not alter the chemistry in the brain.


“The curious property of psychedelics is that they’re anti-addictive,” Dr. James Fadiman, author of The Psychedelic Explorer’s Guide from Santa Cruz, Calif. told Medical Daily. Fadiman has been researching psychedelics since the 1960s, and over the decades, he’s observed that the drugs are difficult to abuse because they are incapable of producing psychoactive effects when used in succession.

“You can take 100 micrograms of LSD, [a typical dose], on Monday and have an experience. Then if you take 100 micrograms on Tuesday, you’ll maybe get one tenth of that experience. Take 100 micrograms on Wednesday, [and you’ll get] no experience. Take even 1,000 micrograms on Thursday, zero experience. It’s as if your system says, ‘this is not appropriate!’”

Meanwhile, many drugs that are widely regarded as extremely addictive or dangerous are placed in less restrictive schedules than psychedelics. Cocaine, for example, has been ranked by a panel of addiction experts as one of the most addictive drugs, yet it is placed in schedule II, along with methamphetamine. And all the way down on schedule IV is Xanax, a highly addictive benzodiazepine frequently prescribed for anxiety disorders.


It's as though the drugs that are extremely addictive are placed in lower categories and those that are non-addictive and are actually considered to have medical purposes that are useful (and cheap) were placed in higher categories and mislabeled. Can't imagine why our government would do that, can you? It couldn't be because of pharmaceutical companies have lobbied to keep these drugs listed as highly addictive? Or that they would rather the general population use drugs that are considered addictive to keep them drugged up and dependent than to open up something that is non-addictive?

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Reply #149 posted 01/29/19 4:47am

violetcrush

bonatoc said:

herb4 said:

Yeah, I don't think displays many of the benchmarks for cliical depression or abusive recreational drug use either. I think he nacissistic, trust and control issues but that's to be expected from his uprbringing.


Why does pain and suffering make such great art?


This classic quote does not stick with Prince.

His sad songs are fanstastic, but he wouldn't be the same artist
without his bright side. In fact, most rock artists, if not all,
look and sound like pathetics fucks. Always sobbing about something.
Prince had a much wider palette.
And it's not easy to write about joy.
Pain? Suffering? These horses have been beated to death in pop music.

Something that will wlays be hard to grasp, is his work pace.
Whatever we consider normal functioning in relationships
requires a minimum of time spent interacting.
How wonder the time budget Prince reserved for his interactions.
Because part of it is also being there, listening.
He probably did that from time from time, be then an emotion comes
and quick, he has to run to the studio to imprint it.
This life journal of his was an obsession to him.
It's what The Vault was: his daily log.
Was Prince spending more time writing about life
than truly experiencing it? Emotions can be a toll to hypersensitives.
They are deformed and become giant, overwhelming emotions
where to others, they're not that devastating.

Very well stated. All one has to do is read Duane's book to get a glimpse of a year-in-the-life of Prince's recording/rehearsing schedule and understand how "non-stop" it was.

*

Things like, leaving MN in the middle of rehearsing for the PR tour to fly out to LA and record Condition Of The Heart in two days, and then fly back to MN and resume rehearsing.

*

There's the story of how he came up with Housequake - walking across the floor and hearing his heels make what is now the first drum beat on that track, and having to stop where he was going to go back and record that song.

*

Or, calling the band to the warehouse on Bobby's wedding day to record Empty Room.

*

So many stories like these to show how he expressed his emotions - through the music.

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