violetcrush said:

herb4 said:

Huh. OK. Still disagree.

All of that analysis seems like a huge stretch.

Yes, I think quite a stretch. Here are Prince's words about the music of the ATWIAD album...also from that 1985 RS article:

OF COURSE he's going to say all that. He said the PR tour almost did him in. He did everything he could to distance himself from PR, including his look, sound, stage, etc. The band size literally doubled to show no resemblance. Then he broke it up. But to think ATWIAD doesn't have PR influences is short-sighted. He recorded it during the PR period, some songs even before the movie was done being filmed. It's amazing that he said later that Wendy or Lisa would tell him, "No, we've heard that before" and whatever he was doing "goes away", yet the truth of BIAS Linn drum pattern showing up for 16 minutes on "America" is one example. "Purple Rain" being equal with "the Ladder" is not a stretch of anything. Even Prince said "Raspberry Beret" was an extension of the story of him and Apollonia in PR (including the sex in the barn, riding on his bike, etc). the third song in being a ballad - done. The third song in on Controversy was a ballad. Yet on 1999, it wasn't. On Parade, it wasn't. On SOTT, it wasn't.

The overall template was there, even if some of the song styles may differ. Even Prince was more influenced by PR than he ever admitted. I'm not the only one who has made those comparisons. I just got more detailed with it.

TrivialPursuit said:

Songs to me on Around that sound like nothing like anything on PR:

Paisley Park, the title track, Tambourine, Pop Life, Temptation...none of them really. I'll throw "Hair", "Girl" and "Hello" in there too. I think they'd stick out considerably. I'll concede the ballads I guess since most of those sound the same to me anyway but stuff like "same number of songs on each side", "same tempo on a slow song" and a "one note/chord opening " is just...I mean...any 2 songs could do that.

I know the public reaction to the record was similar and even people who liked it were like "holy shit, that's different". I'd say more than half of the people I knew that adored PR dropped off and didn't care for it all so they obviously heard something different. Some of them never really came back either so something was way jarring and it wasn't Prince fatigue either.

I played the hell out of PR too and never really wore out ATWIAD like I did Rain so, again, it was clearly different sounding to me as well and wasn't nearly as good, IMO.

Only songs on PR I could see fitting on ATWIAD are Take Me With U and maybe Nikki.

herb4 said:

Songs to me on Around that sound like nothing like anything on PR:

Paisley Park, the title track, Tambourine, Pop Life, Temptation...none of them really. I'll throw "Hair", "Girl" and "Hello" in there too. I think they'd stick out considerably. I'll concede the ballads I guess since most of those sound the same to me anyway but stuff like "same number of songs on each side", "same tempo on a slow song" and a "one note/chord opening " is just...I mean...any 2 songs could do that.

I know the public reaction to the record was similar and even people who liked it were like "holy shit, that's different". I'd say more than half of the people I knew that adored PR dropped off and didn't care for it all so they obviously heard something different. Some of them never really came back either so something was way jarring and it wasn't Prince fatigue either.

I played the hell out of PR too and never really wore out ATWIAD like I did Rain so, again, it was clearly different sounding to me as well and wasn't nearly as good, IMO.

Only songs on PR I could see fitting on ATWIAD are Take Me With U and maybe Nikki.

never really wore out ATWIAD like I did Rain ----------------totally agree

luvsexy4all said:

Wolfie87 said:

violetcrush said:

Also, if we consider where Prince would have gone after the Parade album - the triple Crystal Ball - had WB allowed it, we would have had his artistic expression going to an even further extreme.

Or consider The Flesh, Camille and Dream Factory released weeks or a few months apart after Parade.

JorisE73 said:

violetcrush said:

JorisE73 said:

Or consider The Flesh, Camille and Dream Factory released weeks or a few months apart after Parade.

Yes, I think any of those would have had his more mainstream and funk fans thinking, what the heck is this??! Such great music though.

I would think those 3 releases would be more 'mainstream'. the Flesh -jazzish, Camille-typical Prince, the Dream Factory - typical Prince(sounds spanding his whole career + some)

violetcrush said:

Wolfie87 said:

So why are we saying that Prince had an unbeatable run between 1980-1988 then? Clearly, you guys here think that ATWIAD is mediocre at best compared to Purple Rain. And it's funny that some people are saying that this is PR 2.0. When I listen to reviews or podcasts about this album the first words describing the title track has always been "Right of the bat, Prince makes it clear that this is nothing like Purple Rain. And we're in for the ride". About that accurate. If you guys are specifically describing 1980-1988 and include ATWIAD, I will take the liberty to include Batman and extend the streak to 1989. Because I like that album more than ATWIAD. It only has two weak songs (Horrible as they are). This album sadly has many. As a good popstar, you should still combine art and your own expression with mainstream in some way. Raspberry Beret is that one song on the album. But I still respect Prince for being the most talented and unique artist of our time taking that risk. I mean. America extended version is still true art. However I'm only talking about the extended version.

I think ATWIAD was the start of Prince leaning toward his desire for a different sound and more artistic expression. Then the Parade album took that expression to the next level. I think Condition of the Heart is just incredible. Very sophisticated compared to The Beautiful Ones - which I love too, but it's not as deep. * Also, if we consider where Prince would have gone after the Parade album - the triple Crystal Ball - had WB allowed it, we would have had his artistic expression going to an even further extreme. SOTT, while fantastic, is tame in comparison to what CB would have been. * I guess everyone has their own tastes and opinions with his music, but I look at the Batman album as just your typical pop/top 40 deal with Prince taking advantage of the huge marketing connection to the film.

Co-sign to most of that.

ATWIAD was Prince saying "nope nope nope...I'm gonna do me. U wanna come along let's go". I bet at that point he realized he'd never have to worry about money again if he didn't want to and he's on record saying how bored he got playing the same setlist every night and how overwhelmed he was by all the attention he received with PR. He legit seemed spooked and was facing with the realization that now that he'd gotten what he wanted...NOW WHAT?

It was a wise play he made; one that he continued throughout his career. A sort of "look at me"/"leave me alone" flip flop balancing act that I think, overall and in the long run, aided his longevity. He always seemed to keep one foot in the spotlight/mainstream and one foot out, sometimes to his detriment in the short run but always with an eye on the long game.

As much as people shit on the 90's stuff, the name change, and some of the moves he made (see the "Miscalculation" thread) he always stayed around JUST ENOUGH to avoid being a flash in the pan or burning out entirely and a lot of that 90's shit was as strong as anything he ever did, even if a lot of it was buried behind "crazy" ideas and unusal methods.

ATWIAD saved his career in a lot of ways and allowed him to last as long as he did.

OldFriends4Sale said:

violetcrush said:

JorisE73 said: Yes, I think any of those would have had his more mainstream and funk fans thinking, what the heck is this??! Such great music though.

I would think those 3 releases would be more 'mainstream'. the Flesh -jazzish, Camille-typical Prince, the Dream Factory - typical Prince(sounds spanding his whole career + some)

Hmmm....not sure I agree with that. I think the Flesh w/ full-on Camille and jazz sound and songs like All My Dreams and Witness 4 The Prosecution were very unique compared to most of what he had already done. ATWIAD and Parade were not fully embraced by the mainstream audience, and I think Crystal Ball would have unfortunately suffered the same fate back then. The fans who are more open to different sounds and styles have appreciated and loved the bootlegs for many years, and many of the "top 40" listeners came to appreciate some of those songs in much later years, but I don't think the album would have been hugely successful in 1986 - it was too forward-thinking.

violetcrush said:

ATWIAD and Parade were not fully embraced by the mainstream audience, and I think Crystal Ball would have unfortunately suffered the same fate back then. The fans who are more open to different sounds and styles have appreciated and loved the bootlegs for many years, and many of the "top 40" listeners came to appreciate some of those songs in much later years, but I don't think the album would have been hugely successful in 1986 - it was too forward-thinking.

.

Prince became more mainstream *after* Purple Rain in Europe. (or at least in the Netherlands) Parade was a bigger album, in spite of the movie that didn't take off at all. The touring didn't hurt of course, with lots of Sign Of The Times shows. At the time, all the extra albums/projects would have been welcomed by the mainstream audience, although quite likely smaller audiences than Parade or Sign Of The Times.

Prince should have moved to Europe and simply ignored the racist American divide between "black" and "white" music. (not that it doesn't exist in Europe, but genre divides weren't/aren't as strict) It would have gotten us more interesting music, imo.

mediumdry said:

violetcrush said:

mediumdry said:

.

Prince became more mainstream *after* Purple Rain in Europe. (or at least in the Netherlands) Parade was a bigger album, in spite of the movie that didn't take off at all. The touring didn't hurt of course, with lots of Sign Of The Times shows. At the time, all the extra albums/projects would have been welcomed by the mainstream audience, although quite likely smaller audiences than Parade or Sign Of The Times.

Prince should have moved to Europe and simply ignored the racist American divide between "black" and "white" music. (not that it doesn't exist in Europe, but genre divides weren't/aren't as strict) It would have gotten us more interesting music, imo.

I do think that ATWIAD and Parade were received better in Europe, but Prince also did more live shows there to support the music - possibly because he did not tour there for PR, and/or because the records were selling better there. * Prince would never have relocated to Europe. He was fully grounded in MN, and the American culture - despite any racial issues. He may have had complaints about things happening in his country, but he also loved it.

This is true yes, he had real estate all over the planet that he never visited. He had an apartment in Amsterdam that he only visited once. Even when playing show here he stayd at a hotel instead of that apartment. MPLS was his home.

JorisE73 said:

1. Around the World in a Day
2. Paisley Park
3. Condition of the Heart
4. Raspberry Beret
5. She's Always in My Hair

SIDE B

1. Hello
2. Pop Life
3. Tamborine
4. America (extended)

Shockedelicus said:

I believe that this is the improved tracklisting you were looking for:

SIDE A

1. Around the World in a Day
2. Paisley Park
3. Condition of the Heart
4. Raspberry Beret
5. She's Always in My Hair

SIDE B

1. Hello
2. Pop Life
3. Tamborine
4. America (extended)

Girl

OldFriends4Sale said:

Shockedelicus said:

I believe that this is the improved tracklisting you were looking for:

SIDE A

1. Around the World in a Day
2. Paisley Park
3. Condition of the Heart
4. Raspberry Beret
5. She's Always in My Hair

SIDE B

1. Hello
2. Pop Life
3. Tamborine
4. America (extended)

Girl

OldFriends4Sale said:

Shockedelicus said:

I believe that this is the improved tracklisting you were looking for:

SIDE A

1. Around the World in a Day
2. Paisley Park
3. Condition of the Heart
4. Raspberry Beret
5. She's Always in My Hair

SIDE B

1. Hello
2. Pop Life
3. Tamborine (or Girl)
4. America (extended)

Girl

I've only got 22 minutes per side and America needs to be as long as possible.

no reason to take away songs ..just add the b-sides and 12 " for a great reissue.

I've said this before a few times on here, but if you really listen to ATWIAD, it IS the "Purple Rain 2" that everyone wanted. It's just covered with a few sounds.

Aside from the songs ATWIAD and Paisley Park, it's not really that "psychedelic" at all.

Se7en said:

I've said this before a few times on here, but if you really listen to ATWIAD, it IS the "Purple Rain 2" that everyone wanted. It's just covered with a few sounds.

Aside from the songs ATWIAD and Paisley Park, it's not really that "psychedelic" at all.

Uhh not at all...

If he wanted it to be Purple Rain 2 I guarentee you he would have 3 #1 hits if he decided to release songs like The Dance Electric, 17 Days, Erotic City... It would've been a similar sound from 1999 - Purple Rain.. This was a complete new direction in terms of sound and artistry. That is why the ATWIAD album stands out so much in the Prince catalouge, especially from his 80's album... It was clearly a rebellion so it would end up not as Purple Rain 2.

Se7en said:

I've said this before a few times on here, but if you really listen to ATWIAD, it IS the "Purple Rain 2" that everyone wanted. It's just covered with a few sounds.

Aside from the songs ATWIAD and Paisley Park, it's not really that "psychedelic" at all.

If you listen to Sgt Peppers, it's not about trippy effects on all the songs... its about the breadth of style and cast of characters. For example there is nothing trippy about When I'm Sixty Four, but it is an odd sudden genre turn.

I think Around The World in a Day also makes big twists in genre and narration style within Prince's influences. I do think Condition of the Heart ius very trippy in it's style of production and flow... as is the theatrics of the outro of Temptations. Wait... Pop Life is also kind of trippy in its production. Even has the non sequitur break in the middle and the end to the sound of an event.

And then you have the artwork. The paisleys.

ufoclub said:

Se7en said:

I've said this before a few times on here, but if you really listen to ATWIAD, it IS the "Purple Rain 2" that everyone wanted. It's just covered with a few sounds.

Aside from the songs ATWIAD and Paisley Park, it's not really that "psychedelic" at all.

If you listen to Sgt Peppers, it's not about trippy effects on all the songs... its about the breadth of style and cast of characters. For example there is nothing trippy about When I'm Sixty Four, but it is an odd sudden genre turn.

I think Around The World in a Day also makes big twists in genre and narration style within Prince's influences. I do think Condition of the Heart ius very trippy in it's style of production and flow... as is the theatrics of the outro of Temptations. Wait... Pop Life is also kind of trippy in its production. Even has the non sequitur break in the middle and the end to the sound of an event.

And then you have the artwork. The paisleys.

this is a good point. The Beatles had far more experimental and odd tracks on other records and Sgt. Peppers wasn't entirely "look how trippy we are now".

I've read all the narratives but, sorry, I still don't get the "Purple Rain 2" arguments and comparisons. Like not at ALL. ATWIAD was a deliberate left turn/180 degree move from the things he was doing that had made him famous. The fans he'd ammassed by that stage sure seemed to think so and so do I.

Se7en said:

I've said this before a few times on here, but if you really listen to ATWIAD, it IS the "Purple Rain 2" that everyone wanted. It's just covered with a few sounds.

Aside from the songs ATWIAD and Paisley Park, it's not really that "psychedelic" at all.

^^^ SEE!

And I would say that "ATWAID" isn't even psychedelic. It's more World Pop. "Strawberry Fields Forever" was psychedelic in many ways, and "Paisley Park" is the only one that barely even approaches that, so I agree with that one.

TrivialPursuit said:

SoulAlive said:

Poplife88 said:

One of my faves. But agree it’s missing something. I like The Ladder, but I’ve never been a fan of Temptation. Ever since the days of recording vinyl on cassette, it was replaced by She’s Always in my Hair. THAT’s Around The World in a Day for me and it always will be.

Replace "Tamborine" with the excellent "She's Always In My Hair" and replace "Temptation" with a stronger song and I would like the album alot more

Tamborine is one of my faves on the album...that one isn't going anywhere