Lately I've been getting into Showgirls again and I've been looking for the definitive story on Prince's involvement in it or lack of involvement. One the one hand, I understand that the song "319" was already completed before the movie begain filming; note the little "easter egg" is that Cristal's hospital room is 319. But, on the other hand, Prince being Prince said 319 was inspired by Elizabeth Berkeley's dancing?

Haven't come up with anything great to read?

Any great information out there about it?

I forget but I thought that part about being inspired by her dancing was in the CB booklet about Ripopgodazipa? Either way it's bunk I'd say, some of the self-perpetuated origin stories of certain songs are just that, stories. See also 'Cream'. I think it's just part of the self-made mystique sometimes.

best movie that keeps getting shit on

luvsexy4all said:

sro100 said:

luvsexy4all said:

best movie that keeps getting shit on

People are so brainwashed. It IS great satire and some won't see it as such because some critic says otherwise.

Well, it did develop a quasi-cult following...

purplethunder3121 said:

sro100 said:

luvsexy4all said: People are so brainwashed. It IS great satire and some won't see it as such because some critic says otherwise.

Well, it did develop a quasi-cult following...

Quasi is "apparently but not really". It does, absolutely, have a cult following. The filmmakers and motion picture company realized that and even issued a 20th (or 25th?) anniversary edition of the DVD in a box set. It's worth owning just to skip the CGI's bras and panties in the TV edits.

And I'd agree it is great satire. There's no way a filmmaker would put out a film with so much over (or under) acting and it not be a larger goal of being satire or something else besides a true dramatic film.

TrivialPursuit said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Well, it did develop a quasi-cult following...

Quasi is "apparently but not really". It does, absolutely, have a cult following. The filmmakers and motion picture company realized that and even issued a 20th (or 25th?) anniversary edition of the DVD in a box set. It's worth owning just to skip the CGI's bras and panties in the TV edits.

And I'd agree it is great satire. There's no way a filmmaker would put out a film with so much over (or under) acting and it not be a larger goal of being satire or something else besides a true dramatic film.

Either way, it is a fun movie to watch.

purplethunder3121 said:

Either way, it is a fun movie to watch.

TOTALLY! I'm sorta overdue to watch it again. I love how they mention Janet Jackson as a possibility to do this titty show (in the movie).

TrivialPursuit said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Well, it did develop a quasi-cult following...

Quasi is "apparently but not really". It does, absolutely, have a cult following. The filmmakers and motion picture company realized that and even issued a 20th (or 25th?) anniversary edition of the DVD in a box set. It's worth owning just to skip the CGI's bras and panties in the TV edits.

And I'd agree it is great satire. There's no way a filmmaker would put out a film with so much over (or under) acting and it not be a larger goal of being satire or something else besides a true dramatic film.

Have you read Verehoven's writings about in the Showgirls coffee table book? I think it's supposed to be a modern day (for the time) homage to Hollywood musicals in part, but he's pretty sincere about the movie and its themes, I don't really think it's a satire as such.

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That sincerity is what makes the movie though. Movie makers who set out to make a good bad movie usually miss the mark because it's the audience that has to decide if a bad movie is actually good. Although saying that Showgirls 2 was definately made with the cult status of the first film in mind and it still manages to be mind-bendingly awful in ways the makers never intended!

NouveauDance said:

Have you read Verehoven's writings about in the Showgirls coffee table book? I think it's supposed to be a modern day (for the time) homage to Hollywood musicals in part, but he's pretty sincere about the movie and its themes, I don't really think it's a satire as such.

I've seen Verehoven admit it was satirical. Other filmmakers and critics have said the same thing and praised him for it; and some view it was a dark comedy at times. Whatever it's labeled, I don't believe it was ever meant to be a serious dramatic film 100%.

TrivialPursuit said:

I've seen Verehoven admit it was satirical. Other filmmakers and critics have said the same thing and praised him for it; and some view it was a dark comedy at times. Whatever it's labeled, I don't believe it was ever meant to be a serious dramatic film 100%.

I can imagine he flip-flopped on it after its release, but the way he talks about it in the book you'd think it was Citizen Kane!

if u look at it from the wrong perspective u wont get it or like it

NouveauDance said:

I forget but I thought that part about being inspired by her dancing was in the CB booklet about Ripopgodazipa? Either way it's bunk I'd say, some of the self-perpetuated origin stories of certain songs are just that, stories. See also 'Cream'. I think it's just part of the self-made mystique sometimes.

Ripop was inspired by an "episode on his weight bench" per the CB liner notes

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I remember there was a rumor about Prince "getting it on" with Elizabeth B, but that probably stemmed from his comments about 319 when asked by a fan during the online Q&A he did in the mid 90's. I can see him being inspired to write the song after watching the film...

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Edit - woops, the film was released 2 years after he recorded 319. So, possibly the other way around? Verhoeven inspired by the song?

[Edited 11/17/18 11:13am]

Krystalkisses said:

violetcrush said:

NouveauDance said:

I forget but I thought that part about being inspired by her dancing was in the CB booklet about Ripopgodazipa? Either way it's bunk I'd say, some of the self-perpetuated origin stories of certain songs are just that, stories. See also 'Cream'. I think it's just part of the self-made mystique sometimes.

Ripop was inspired by an "episode on his weight bench" per the CB liner notes

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I remember there was a rumor about Prince "getting it on" with Elizabeth B, but that probably stemmed from his comments about 319 when asked by a fan during the online Q&A he did in the mid 90's. I can see him being inspired to write the song after watching the film...

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Edit - woops, the film was released 2 years after he recorded 319. So, possibly the other way around? Verhoeven inspired by the song?

[Edited 11/17/18 11:13am]

I was wondering aboutt that whole which came first? Chicken or the egg? If 319 the song did arrive first then clearly the movie, maybe the writer, made that Cristal's hospital number.

Other potential easter egg, or not really, is Nikki is next to Nomi in the dressing room. I don't know if her font is really made to look like the Darling Nikki purple rain font or not?

That's why I'd love to finally hear about Prince's involvement, or lackof, on this project. It combines two great things like peanut butter and chocolate.

sro100 said:

violetcrush said:

Ripop was inspired by an "episode on his weight bench" per the CB liner notes

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I remember there was a rumor about Prince "getting it on" with Elizabeth B, but that probably stemmed from his comments about 319 when asked by a fan during the online Q&A he did in the mid 90's. I can see him being inspired to write the song after watching the film...

*

Edit - woops, the film was released 2 years after he recorded 319. So, possibly the other way around? Verhoeven inspired by the song?

[Edited 11/17/18 11:13am]

I was wondering aboutt that whole which came first? Chicken or the egg? If 319 the song did arrive first then clearly the movie, maybe the writer, made that Cristal's hospital number.

Other potential easter egg, or not really, is Nikki is next to Nomi in the dressing room. I don't know if her font is really made to look like the Darling Nikki purple rain font or not?

That's why I'd love to finally hear about Prince's involvement, or lackof, on this project. It combines two great things like peanut butter and chocolate.

Actually, the timing on all of this is very interesting. Basic tracking for 319, according to princevault, took place October 1993, but was not released until Sept 1995 on the Gold album. Showgirls was released October 1995, so there's no way Verhoeven would have been inspired by that song unless he received a copy of it during the making of the film, which would have been prior to the Gold album release. So, I guess it's possible that he and Prince were collaborating??

John Waters says it is a great example of camp. I'd say the same thing with UTCM.

The nudity alone. lol

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

Krystalkisses said:

That movie is a guilty pleasure of mine.

Yep!

Y'all muthafukkas got me watching this shit on a Saturday afternoon. lol "LEMME SEE YOUR TITS!"

TrivialPursuit said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

Krystalkisses said: Yep!

Y'all muthafukkas got me watching this shit on a Saturday afternoon. lol "LEMME SEE YOUR TITS!"

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But, we still haven't figured out whether Prince wrote 319 for Showgirls??

TrivialPursuit said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

Krystalkisses said: Yep!

Y'all muthafukkas got me watching this shit on a Saturday afternoon. lol "LEMME SEE YOUR TITS!"

Very nice.

violetcrush said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Y'all muthafukkas got me watching this shit on a Saturday afternoon. lol "LEMME SEE YOUR TITS!"

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But, we still haven't figured out whether Prince wrote 319 for Showgirls??

Exactly. Even after all these years there's been no one coming out with stories about it. I remember, I think it was Entertainment Weekly's Fall Movie Preview or something and it had on the cover I think, the actual symbol, and inside there was a small blip about doing the soundtrack. I remember when I actually saw it in the theatre back then being disappointed there wasn't more music from in it.

sro100 said:

violetcrush said:

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But, we still haven't figured out whether Prince wrote 319 for Showgirls??

Exactly. Even after all these years there's been no one coming out with stories about it.

I'm voting no on that.

TrivialPursuit said:

sro100 said:

Exactly. Even after all these years there's been no one coming out with stories about it.

I'm voting no on that.

Trivial, I'm torn because of the timing. I'm thinking the Rm 319 in the film and Prince's song are too much of a coincidence. Okay, some of my detective work:

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Filming dates for Showgirls: August 1994 - December 1994

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Basic Tracking for 319: October 1993 but not released until Sept 1995

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Also, Ripopgodazippa was recorded October of 1993 as well, but not released by Prince until Crystal Ball.

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From IMdb under Soundtrack credits:

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Ripopgodazippa
Written, Performed, Produced and Arranged by Prince

319
Written, Performed, Produced and Arranged by Prince

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I think Prince may have written and recorded those songs for the film, or chosen them because they fit the storyline.

violetcrush said:

TrivialPursuit said:

I'm voting no on that.

Trivial, I'm torn because of the timing. I'm thinking the Rm 319 in the film and Prince's song are too much of a coincidence. Okay, some of my detective work:

[els snip]

I think Prince may have written and recorded those songs for the film, or chosen them because they fit the storyline.

The timing has weight because people are giving it weight. It's a 'yeah, but", nothing more. Because the "timeline" fit doesn't mean it's inherently evidential to the argument. It's like playing Dark Side of The Moon to The Wizard of Oz and thinking there is a deeper meaning. It's a funky coinkydink, but it's not enough to be convincing.

TrivialPursuit said:

violetcrush said:

Trivial, I'm torn because of the timing. I'm thinking the Rm 319 in the film and Prince's song are too much of a coincidence. Okay, some of my detective work:

[els snip]

I think Prince may have written and recorded those songs for the film, or chosen them because they fit the storyline.

The timing has weight because people are giving it weight. It's a 'yeah, but", nothing more. Because the "timeline" fit doesn't mean it's inherently evidential to the argument. It's like playing Dark Side of The Moon to The Wizard of Oz and thinking there is a deeper meaning. It's a funky coinkydink, but it's not enough to be convincing.

I hear what you're saying, but how do you explain the songs appearing in the movie prior to Prince releasing them on his albums?? How did the production crew get the songs?

Gina Gershon and Lenny Kravitz were old high school friends. Follow the yellow brick road...

IIRC Elizabeth Berkley told the story of how she met Prince in a record store and she didn't know what to call him (which hints to the timing). He called her Nomi and told her how he had seen a tape of her dancing that was sent to him (he was sent dance tapes all the time). She didn't know what to say and that's why she simply said she loved dancing to his music.

CatB said:

Gina Gershon and Lenny Kravitz were old high school friends. Follow the yellow brick road...

IIRC Elizabeth Berkley told the story of how she met Prince in a record store and she didn't know what to call him (which hints to the timing). He called her Nomi and told her how he had seen a tape of her dancing that was sent to him (he was sent dance tapes all the time). She didn't know what to say and that's why she simply said she loved dancing to his music.

Oh God, IanRG is haunting me on other threads now

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I do think Prince had connections to that film - I mean, just the plot alone would have attracted his interest

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My thought also is that Prince kept any collaboration quiet, because the movie was lambasted by just about everyone. EB had no career after that film

violetcrush said:

TrivialPursuit said:

The timing has weight because people are giving it weight. It's a 'yeah, but", nothing more. Because the "timeline" fit doesn't mean it's inherently evidential to the argument. It's like playing Dark Side of The Moon to The Wizard of Oz and thinking there is a deeper meaning. It's a funky coinkydink, but it's not enough to be convincing.

I hear what you're saying, but how do you explain the songs appearing in the movie prior to Prince releasing them on his albums?? How did the production crew get the songs?

I'm not certain what's confusing everyone like that. It's pretty simple.

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Prince was asked to give songs for the film and, given the musical nature of the film, it's pretty likely he was asked quite early in the process, so they could shoot the dance scenes on the music they would use in the end.

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Prince may or may not have been sent a script before submitting his material, or a description of the scenes, he may even have been sent dailies if filming was already underway but, as I said, I think he was asked long before filming began.

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So Prince provided two songs, and the 319 props was most likely added after his songs were provided (I fail to see why such a detail as the room number would have been in the script, unless it was in a piece of dialogue, maybe it is, I don't remember).

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From what I could gather about Showgirls' production's timeline, it seems that pre-production was already underway in mid-1993, so it's not impossible that Prince was indeed inspired by E. Berkley as he later said he'd been, when recording 319. It's however possible that Prince simply said that because it sounded cool to connect the song with the movie, but that the song had already been recorded when he was asked to provide songs. It's up to anyone to take his word for it or not, and I'm also pretty sure it's possible to find more details about the film's production timeline if someone really needs to know that for sure.

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It must also be added that 319 was premiered on several European radios in March 1994, both it and Ripogodazippa were played live on several occasions in 1994, and both were bootlegged quite immediately, so it's not like the tracks were totally unheard of before they got their TGE and CB release respectively. But that's unrelated to the movie topic.

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I'm glad to see some love for the film here, because I think it's a masterpiece

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Now something much, much more puzzling did happen some years later, in 2001: my mom died from cancer and she spent the last few days of her life, and died in... room 319! I was like WTF?! Now if someone can explain that to me!

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databank said:

violetcrush said:

I hear what you're saying, but how do you explain the songs appearing in the movie prior to Prince releasing them on his albums?? How did the production crew get the songs?

I'm not certain what's confusing everyone like that. It's pretty simple.

.

Prince was asked to give songs for the film and, given the musical nature of the film, it's pretty likely he was asked quite early in the process, so they could shoot the dance scenes on the music they would use in the end.

.

Prince may or may not have been sent a script before submitting his material, or a description of the scenes, he may even have been sent dailies if filming was already underway but, as I said, I think he was asked long before filming began.

.

So Prince provided two songs, and the 319 props was most likely added after his songs were provided (I fail to see why such a detail as the room number would have been in the script, unless it was in a piece of dialogue, maybe it is, I don't remember).

.

From what I could gather about Showgirls' production's timeline, it seems that pre-production was already underway in mid-1993, so it's not impossible that Prince was indeed inspired by E. Berkley as he later said he'd been, when recording 319. It's however possible that Prince simply said that because it sounded cool to connect the song with the movie, but that the song had already been recorded when he was asked to provide songs. It's up to anyone to take his word for it or not, and I'm also pretty sure it's possible to find more details about the film's production timeline if someone really needs to know that for sure.

.

It must also be added that 319 was premiered on several European radios in March 1994, both it and Ripogodazippa were played live on several occasions in 1994, and both were bootlegged quite immediately, so it's not like the tracks were totally unheard of before they got their TGE and CB release respectively. But that's unrelated to the movie topic.

.

I'm glad to see some love for the film here, because I think it's a masterpiece

.

Now something much, much more puzzling did happen some years later, in 2001: my mom died from cancer and she spent the last few days of her life, and died in... room 319! I was like WTF?! Now if someone can explain that to me!

.

Filming dates for Showgirls: August 1994 - December 1994 - I had posted that earlier, but of course, scripting and pre-production start long before the actual filming of the scenes.

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Seeing as the songs were not "official" releases I would imagine that Prince would have been contacted to supply songs for the film - whether he wrote and recorded one or both of the songs specifically with the film in mind, or just chose them because they fit more with the film may never be known.

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If you go by Prince's own words then it would seem that 319 was written for the film (with or without seeing EB dance or early footage), and Ripop was "inspired by an episode with a woman on his weight bench"

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Sorry about your Mom. Hmmm....the 319 connection - not sure where to go with that explanation