skywalker said:

rdhull said:

Force is with u Skywalker but youre not a jedi yet...sales doesnt mean shit. I mean you say that your dman self. Its greatness and INFLUENCE. Nothing in Princes repetoire is gretaer than Songs In The Key Of Life for example. Fuck the 'subjective' blah blah nonsense people state regarding whats better etc. Nobody is besting Stevies cultural reach and influence regarding his 70's run. Im the biggest Prince fan there is no matter how hard some of yall suck his dick but I aint crazy to think he or anyone else has surpassed Stevie.

-

You think Songs in the Key of life is MORE influential than Purple Rain.

I don't think. I know.

rdhull said:

rdhull said:

skywalker said:

Genuine question: Did Stevie Wonder have any one thing as montumental/seismic or pop culture dominating as Purple Rain? The Album/film/tour etc? What I mean, is at his HIGHEST of HIGHS commerically, when did Stevie come closest?

-

It seems to me this "greatest run in pop history" talk is considering singles over albums?

-

Also, didn't Prince have a stretch of 10 years or so with a single in the top 10 every year? Does longevity count for less in the discussion?

[Edited 11/30/18 20:32pm]

Force is with u Skywalker but youre not a jedi yet...sales doesnt mean shit. I mean you say that your dman self. Its greatness and INFLUENCE. Nothing in Princes repetoire is gretaer than Songs In The Key Of Life for example. Fuck the 'subjective' blah blah nonsense people state regarding whats better etc. Nobody is besting Stevies cultural reach and influence regarding his 70's run. Im the biggest Prince fan there is no matter how hard some of yall suck his dick but I aint crazy to think he or anyone else has surpassed Stevie.

In the same sentence sucking Stevie's dick. Love it.

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

rdhull said:

I don't think. I know.

Time has proved purple Rain far more influential in pop culture. Far far more influential

On a Prince fan site your not allowed to big him up. You have to dissect and diss him constantly because Prince influenced nothing in the music industry according to the many so called Prince fans on the org. This place is getting more weird each day. Let's get it over and done with and tell ourselves Prince did nothing, zero to impact anybody or anyone. There nobody has to start another dissing thread about Prince again. Glad i could help God help anyone opening a positive thread about Prince you will be accused of sucking his d@@k and looking through rose tinted glasses.

skywalker said:

rdhull said:

Force is with u Skywalker but youre not a jedi yet...sales doesnt mean shit. I mean you say that your dman self. Its greatness and INFLUENCE. Nothing in Princes repetoire is gretaer than Songs In The Key Of Life for example. Fuck the 'subjective' blah blah nonsense people state regarding whats better etc. Nobody is besting Stevies cultural reach and influence regarding his 70's run. Im the biggest Prince fan there is no matter how hard some of yall suck his dick but I aint crazy to think he or anyone else has surpassed Stevie.

Sure, sales don't signal "quality" but they might help to signify how many people have been exposed to and influenced by an album/song/etc. So, if we leave sales out of it, do we leave the charts out of it? What are we using to measure cultural impact?

-

You think Songs in the Key of life is MORE influential than Purple Rain. Yet, what are we basing this on? Was Stevie the most influential artist of the 70's? What about Zeppelin? Bowie? George?

-

All I am saying is that it's a slippery slope when trying to measure cultural impact. What do we use to compare?

-

Example: People copied the Purple Rain "look" for, at least, 2-3 years after Purple Rain hit. Prince's impact on fashion is well documented.

Did people dress up like Stevie Wonder during the Songs in the Key of Life era?

-

I am not trying to be obtuse. I view Stevie as being a genius and as important as Prince. Again,

how do you compare the impact of Songs in the Key of Life to Purple Rain without it being subjective? I am genuinely asking.

[Edited 11/30/18 21:58pm]

This is a very interesting - albeit hard to answer - question... In terms of tangible numbers, the Google search gives me 514,000,000 results for 'Purple Rain' and 503,000,000 for 'Songs In The Key Of Life'. This could be seen as an indication of Prince's mainstream popularity over Stevie's. At least based on these two albums and the internet variables.

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

LOVE LOVE LOVE Stevie. But time makes some figures standout and some great ones kinda start to fade away. And it’s cyclical. As with Bohemian Rhapsody, more people are reminded of how great Queen and Fredy are, the same will happen with Stevie. Then again with Prince and so on. But an iconic look goes a long way. Elvis, Monroe, The Beatles, Charlie Chaplin, MJ, and Prince. I can’t say Monroe was particularly great at anything in particular, but she is certainly iconic and known by far more people than is probably justified. It is unfair to judge people and compare as everyone is diffrent, but the general audience does tend to focus on some figures more than others and it is certainly quantifiable. There are comnpanies that do just that for valuation and marketing reasons.

Exactely. It's called style and charisma. Prince had it, as well as the musical talent and the incredible vocal range of course... Some people are naturally more noticeable than others. Marketing campaigns only exploit what is already there in the first place and could never compensate for a lack of those attributes.

CherryMoon57 said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

LOVE LOVE LOVE Stevie. But time makes some figures standout and some great ones kinda start to fade away. And it’s cyclical. As with Bohemian Rhapsody, more people are reminded of how great Queen and Fredy are, the same will happen with Stevie. Then again with Prince and so on. But an iconic look goes a long way. Elvis, Monroe, The Beatles, Charlie Chaplin, MJ, and Prince. I can’t say Monroe was particularly great at anything in particular, but she is certainly iconic and known by far more people than is probably justified. It is unfair to judge people and compare as everyone is diffrent, but the general audience does tend to focus on some figures more than others and it is certainly quantifiable. There are comnpanies that do just that for valuation and marketing reasons.

Exactely. It's called style and charisma. Prince had it, as well as the musical talent and the incredible vocal range of course... Some people are naturally more noticeable than others. Marketing campaigns only exploit what is already there in the first place and could never compensate for a lack of those attributes.

Yes, Marilyn is more iconic for her personal story and struggles with trying to be taken seriously by Hollywood, and dealing with her sex symbol image. She was not a great actor or singer, but she had that "thing" that captivated men, of course, but also women. Stevie is iconic, not only for his musical talent, but also the fact that he was so successful in spite of his handicap and racial issues of his time. Prince had his amazing talent, the monster success of Purple Rain, and also longevity with performing and releasing music. There are various reasons for a celebrity/musician reaching that "iconic" status.

Guitarhero said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

rdhull said: Time has proved purple Rain far more influential in pop culture. Far far more influential

On a Prince fan site your not allowed to big him up. You have to dissect and diss him constantly because Prince influenced nothing in the music industry according to the many so called Prince fans on the org.

Stop being silly. Youre a grown ass man whining. None of what you just said is true. I cant believe nobody here can be objective in 2018. Before it was oure hate now its pure opposite no matter what the reasoning. Sheesh.

Guitarhero said:

rdhull said:

Force is with u Skywalker but youre not a jedi yet...sales doesnt mean shit. I mean you say that your dman self. Its greatness and INFLUENCE. Nothing in Princes repetoire is gretaer than Songs In The Key Of Life for example. Fuck the 'subjective' blah blah nonsense people state regarding whats better etc. Nobody is besting Stevies cultural reach and influence regarding his 70's run. Im the biggest Prince fan there is no matter how hard some of yall suck his dick but I aint crazy to think he or anyone else has surpassed Stevie.

In the same sentence sucking Stevie's dick. Love it.

Dont get it twisted. Stevie's dick may be in my mouth but Prince's' is in my ass.

rdhull said:

so Prince hasnt surpassed everyone else???? when the right vault material is released...they'll be no question anymore....dont matter what orifice has what in it

violetcrush said:

CherryMoon57 said:

Exactely. It's called style and charisma. Prince had it, as well as the musical talent and the incredible vocal range of course... Some people are naturally more noticeable than others. Marketing campaigns only exploit what is already there in the first place and could never compensate for a lack of those attributes.

Yes, Marilyn is more iconic for her personal story and struggles with trying to be taken seriously by Hollywood, and dealing with her sex symbol image. She was not a great actor or singer, but she had that "thing" that captivated men, of course, but also women. Stevie is iconic, not only for his musical talent, but also the fact that he was so successful in spite of his handicap and racial issues of his time. Prince had his amazing talent, the monster success of Purple Rain, and also longevity with performing and releasing music. There are various reasons for a celebrity/musician reaching that "iconic" status.

Good points!

Prince wasn't necessarily 'mainstream' all of his life, but no one can ignore his iconic status nor his achievements. He didn't have to run another race to the charts to prove his worth, which is usually what new artists normally do to gain some public recognition. And even that doesn't always guarantee that they will reach that level of immortal stardom only reserved to the 'creme de la creme' of artists.

Not everyone listens to Elvis Presley everyday, nor is he continuously in the charts or played on the radios 24/7, but that doesn't stop him from being recognised by the general public (also known as the 'mainstream') as an iconic star. Likewise, Prince doesn't have to continuously sell to continue being recognised as a star.

Now I am not sure if others want to try this, but when I type in some of the celebrity names (iconic or not) into Google, this is what I get (in no particular order):


Elvis Presley: 88,400,000

Marilyn Monroe: 162,000,000

Prince: 1,400,000,000

Madonna: 210,000,000

Cardi B: 175,000,000

Stevie Wonder: 70,200,000

Donald Trump: 1,090,000,000

Michael Jackson: 839,000,000

Barack Obama: 162,000,000

Queen Elyzabeth: 531,000,000

Lady Gaga: 375,000,000

Adele: 187,000,000

David Bowie: 139,000,000

Led Zeppelin: 89,700,000

The Weeknd: 79,100,000

Justin Bieber: 281,000,000

The Beatles: 144,000,000

Bruce Springsteen: 36,100,000

Lenny Kravitz: 21,900,000

Ariana Grande: 300,000,000

Childish Gambino: 31,600,000

I think it is safe to say that Prince IS mainstream after all (either that, or my chromebook is a little biased lol).

rdhull said:

herb4 said:

What are you arguing here, exactly? I'm confused.


PRINCE:

5 NO. 1 HITS

19 TOP 10 HITS

46 SONGS


STEVIE:

10 NO. 1 HITS

28 TOP 10 HITS

63 SONGS

Read the damn thread.

Jk383dk said this nonsense:"His 1980-1988 run was the greatest in popular music history imho. Stevie Wonder (1970-1976) came close. "

Im sayin Wonder is the epitome of the greatest run in pop history. And for someone to say Wonder was a runner up in that category, even if we are talking about Prince, is ridiculous.

I DID read the thread, sport, but thanks for answering the question at least and clarifying, albeit in your typically arrogant tone as the Final Arbiter of All Things Music. You never really posted what side you were arguing for (at least that I saw) and just basically resorted to calling people ignorant and stupid.

As is your wont.

I figured that's what you meant but thought I'd go ahead and actually, you know, politely ASK FIRST before commenting on it.

Fucking excuse me.

And as long as we're splitting hairs here, the Beatles have an argument

20 NO. 1 HITS

34 TOP 10 HITS

71 SONGS

[Edited 12/1/18 11:39am]

CherryMoon57 said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

CherryMoon57 said:

Good points!

Prince wasn't necessarily 'mainstream' all of his life, but no one can ignore his iconic status nor his achievements. He didn't have to run another race to the charts to prove his worth, which is usually what new artists normally do to gain some public recognition. And even that doesn't always guarantee that they will reach that level of immortal stardom only reserved to the 'creme de la creme' of artists.

Not everyone listens to Elvis Presley everyday, nor is he continuously in the charts or played on the radios 24/7, but that doesn't stop him from being recognised by the general public (also known as the 'mainstream') as an iconic star. Likewise, Prince doesn't have to continuously sell to continue being recognised as a star.

Now I am not sure if others want to try this, but when I type in some of the celebrity names (iconic or not) into Google, this is what I get (in no particular order):


Elvis Presley: 88,400,000

Marilyn Monroe: 162,000,000

Prince: 1,400,000,000

Madonna: 210,000,000

Cardi B: 175,000,000

Stevie Wonder: 70,200,000

Donald Trump: 1,090,000,000

Michael Jackson: 839,000,000

Barack Obama: 162,000,000

Queen Elyzabeth: 531,000,000

Lady Gaga: 375,000,000

Adele: 187,000,000

David Bowie: 139,000,000

Led Zeppelin: 89,700,000

The Weeknd: 79,100,000

Justin Bieber: 281,000,000

The Beatles: 144,000,000

Bruce Springsteen: 36,100,000

Lenny Kravitz: 21,900,000

Ariana Grande: 300,000,000

Childish Gambino: 31,600,000

I think it is safe to say that Prince IS mainstream after all (either that, or my chromebook is a little biased lol).

For Prince, could it be that since the name itself is so common and literary that its’s not just results for the man himself but others?

Do you see any other 'Prince' in the top search results? (I don't). 'Purple Rain' alone gets 513,000,000 that's more than 'The Beatles' (276,000,000).

rdhull said:

CherryMoon57 said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

CherryMoon57 said: For Prince, could it be that since the name itself is so common and literary that its’s not just results for the man himself but others?

Do you see any other 'Prince' in the top search results? (I don't). 'Purple Rain' alone gets 513,000,000 that's more than 'The Beatles' (276,000,000).

Wow... This has to win the award for stupid post of the day...

You really think all those search results on GOOGLE is just for PRINCE ROGERS NELSON... Wow...

We're getting way off topic too.

The question wasn't "how mainstream was Prince?" It was "Was he AIMING for it?"

I think in some cases he was but by and large it was a secondary concern to his overall vision. He usually knew how to capture the mainstream's ear when he needed to, Rave un2 not withstanding.

herb4 said:

feeluupp said:

CherryMoon57 said:

Do you see any other 'Prince' in the top search results? (I don't). 'Purple Rain' alone gets 513,000,000 that's more than 'The Beatles' (276,000,000).

Wow... This has to win the award for stupid post of the day...

You really think all those search results on GOOGLE is just for PRINCE ROGERS NELSON... Wow...

If that is what you understood, I think you deserve the award a lot more than I do.

But I am in a good mood so I will re-explain this for you: if Prince's popularity was that thin - as some strange folks on here still think - then how come that out of the 1,410,000,000 search results for the word 'Prince', it is Prince that appears at the top of the results? This still means the purple one reigns at the top of all the other 'Princes'. No?

But you have not said anything about the result number for 'Purple Rain' in comparison with the other searches for supposedly more 'mainstream' celebrities. Now if you start telling me that the search results aren't necessarily about Prince's Purple Rain I will give you this award instead:

jdcxc said:

herb4 said:

We're getting way off topic too.

The question wasn't "how mainstream was Prince?" It was "Was he AIMING for it?"

I think in some cases he was but by and large it was a secondary concern to his overall vision. He usually knew how to capture the mainstream's ear when he needed to, Rave un2 not withstanding.

During his 35+ year career he aimed for mainstream appeal and fought against it. The War, Rainbow Children, Exodus is material as far away from “mainstream” as any superstar popular artist has ever released.

I agree, except oddly I think Exodus had some hits on it. The Good Life could have been a pop/r&b hit. Bump Squad and Big Fun could have been club bangers. But he buried the record in a sea of confusion built form the waters of the name change and Tora Tora stuff.

I honestly don't think he cared a lick about selling records after, say, around the time he changed his name back. He was giving them away, practically and literally.

CherryMoon57 said:

feeluupp said:

Wow... This has to win the award for stupid post of the day...

You really think all those search results on GOOGLE is just for PRINCE ROGERS NELSON... Wow...

If that is what you understood, I think you deserve the award a lot more than I do.

But I am in a good mood so I will re-explain this for you: if Prince's popularity was that thin - as some strange folks on here still think - then how come that out of the 1,410,000,000 search results for the word 'Prince', it is Prince that appears at the top of the results? This still means the purple one reigns at the top of all the other 'Princes'. No?

But you have not said anything about the result number for 'Purple Rain' in comparison with the other searches for supposedly more 'mainstream' celebrities. Now if you start telling me that the search results aren't necessarily about Prince's Purple Rain I will give you this award instead:

I think when people hear the name/term "Prince", our guy is the first person they think of.

WTF is everyone arguing about here?

herb4 said:

rdhull said:

Read the damn thread.

Jk383dk said this nonsense:"His 1980-1988 run was the greatest in popular music history imho. Stevie Wonder (1970-1976) came close. "

Im sayin Wonder is the epitome of the greatest run in pop history. And for someone to say Wonder was a runner up in that category, even if we are talking about Prince, is ridiculous.

I DID read the thread, sport, but thanks for answering the question at least and clarifying, albeit in your typically arrogant tone as the Final Arbiter of All Things Music. You never really posted what side you were arguing for (at least that I saw) and just basically resorted to calling people ignorant and stupid.

As is your wont.

I figured that's what you meant but thought I'd go ahead and actually, you know, politely ASK FIRST before commenting on it.

Fucking excuse me.

And as long as we're splitting hairs here, the Beatles have an argument

20 NO. 1 HITS

34 TOP 10 HITS

71 SONGS

[Edited 12/1/18 11:39am]

I never said anybody was ignorant or stupid, I said statments were. Please dont try to twist to your emotion laden thought process. And if you DID read the thread, there would be no reason for your so-called confusion because my posts are exact to the subject at hand in what I meant and explained clearly. You seem to just want to get into it with me for whatever reason. If you think Im arrogant then why even ask me anything or respond? I suggest you refrain from doing so because anyone else outside of Prince org would agree with my sentiments about the best run of albums compared to each other. If facts come off as arrogance than so be it mr sensitive. Hell, I even said I had his dick in my ass but thats not enuff for you to relax lol. BTW, referring to me as 'Final Arbiter of All Things Music' is not a diss to me but a compliment lol. Why is it when I have an opinion that it has to be seen as arrogant etc (thats rhetorical, don't answer that)? My opinions have alwats been measured etc. ...I'm gonna do something here since its December. Can you stop this unrest between us? I know you have some beef with me for years for some reason but can we be chill for the holiday season?

herb4 said:

We're getting way off topic too.

The question wasn't "how mainstream was Prince?" It was "Was he AIMING for it?"

That was answered in reply #2

herb4 said:

jdcxc said:

thread was more interesting when members where questioning where to put their organs

databank said:

I think the 2004-2008 era was all about establishing himself, once and for all, as one of the greatest pop artists of all times, after a decade that had been confusing for the audience and critics, and had given him the image of an eccentric. He did what he had to do: Musicology, the tour, 3121,21 nights in London, Vegas, the Superbowl and When My Guitar Gently Weeps... His strategy worked as hell: in the course of a few years he'd gone from former 80s genius gone underground because he was too weird to a living legend respected and acclaimed by all. The change was quick and impressive!

Alan Leeds stated that he was glad that Prince finally stopped trying to compete with the current pop stars, and seemed to accept his "icon" status. He said he was the only musician during that time (2000's) without any big hits who could still sell out arenas wherever he played. Very true.

ufoclub said:

If his behavior of being visible in interviews and as a personable celeb who spoke in a down to earth relatable way was a willful endeavor, the opposite of this would be true in the mid to late 80’s when he was not doing any appearances to talk or hang out in a personable way. His albums like Around the World in a Day (no promotion for it’s release!), Parade, SOTT, Black Album, and Lovesexy reflect him really going his own way sonically too... of course with a healthy competitive influence of genre hits from other artists. There’s no sit down talk show appearances by Prince in the 80’s! Or 90’s... right? [Edited 11/17/18 6:54am]

He did do one bizzare sit-down in 1993 with the British press while appearing on TOTP after he had changed to . He was doing the "Tora Tora" disguise, so he didn't actually speak, but was answering questions through Mayte. And this is why he began to have a PR problem

*

He did do some print interviews in 1985 (the great RS interview - one of my favs), and then the MTV television interview, which also didn't help his image too much, because his answers and behavior were a bit strange at the time there as well. Watching it recently his answers make a bit more sense, and it is more obvious that he's trying to be "cute" and humorous to some extent.

*

I think by the 2000's he had matured, mellowed, and decided to no longer be so "cryptic", at least on the TV interviews. Some of the print interviews were still a mix of cryptic and clear.