Ugot2shakesumthin said:

skywalker said:

Agreed. Prince definitely had his "wilderness years" but they were self inflicted and (seemingly) necessary for his own growth/survival/journey. In the end...he jumped back into the mainstream and did it on his terms.

Absolutely! He tore it up! He was Badass with a capital “B” till the very end. Younger artist WISHED they could live up to a fraction of Prince’s badassness.

I remember reading a comment by Alan Leeds, I think - not sure though, who stated that by the early 2000's Prince had reconciled the fact that he would no longer be "cutting edge", and he settled into being the icon playing his hits and selling out shows.

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

Well every artist always wants to reach the widest audience, but he certainly succeeded in becoming mainstream in the 2000’s- through the end of his life. With AMAZING performance in Coachella, The Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame, The Super Bowl and so many more. I always love watching his erformance of “Don’t Play Me” AT the Webby Awards. It was an amazing renaissance and I am so happy for his legacy that he didn’t end up a washed up artist or end up like MJ, but known as the best living live performer up until his very last day.

The R&RHOF and Super Bowl performances clinched his iconic status in terms of winning over any doubters or critics of his immense talent. He also gained many new fans after those. Both were objectively amazing. If he had not had the "on and off" or delayed social media participation he would have gained an even bigger audience. Imagine if he had allowed all the YT videos posted now to be posted back then. It would have attracted so many younger people who weren't around in the 80's.

rdhull said:

jdcxc said:

leecaldon said: His 1980-1988 run was the greatest in popular music history imho. Stevie Wonder (1970-1976) came close. Kinda hard to top that. Can anyone name a more creative run? Beatles, Sly, James Brown?

"Stevie Wonder came close"..stop embarrassing yourself.

Stevie had won multiple grammies prior to 1976's Songs In The Key Of Life. Prince did not reach Grammy status with his albums until 1999, and didn't win a Grammy until Purple Rain - his 6th album. So with Prince it was a slow steady climb, and with Stevie it was topping the charts for 6 consecutive years.

violetcrush said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

skywalker said: Absolutely! He tore it up! He was Badass with a capital “B” till the very end. Younger artist WISHED they could live up to a fraction of Prince’s badassness.

I remember reading a comment by Alan Leeds, I think - not sure though, who stated that by the early 2000's Prince had reconciled the fact that he would no longer be "cutting edge", and he settled into being the icon playing his hits and selling out shows.

Alan Leeds also went on to positively gush about how awesome the One Nite Alone tour was and went on to say that he had wish Prince had done this type of thing before. He loved that the focus was on the art/music and not necessarily "the hits" and spectacle.

violetcrush said:

rdhull said:

"Stevie Wonder came close"..stop embarrassing yourself.

Stevie had won multiple grammies prior to 1976's Songs In The Key Of Life. Prince did not reach Grammy status with his albums until 1999, and didn't win a Grammy until Purple Rain - his 6th album. So with Prince it was a slow steady climb, and with Stevie it was topping the charts for 6 consecutive years.

Grammy's are the barometer of music greatness? How many Grammy's did Jimi Hendrix get in his career? How about The Beatles?

skywalker said:

violetcrush said:

Stevie had won multiple grammies prior to 1976's Songs In The Key Of Life. Prince did not reach Grammy status with his albums until 1999, and didn't win a Grammy until Purple Rain - his 6th album. So with Prince it was a slow steady climb, and with Stevie it was topping the charts for 6 consecutive years.

Grammy's are the barometer of music greatness? How many Grammy's did Jimi Hendrix get in his career? How about The Beatles?

Weren't we talking about album sales and mainstream appeal?? In 1968 Rolling Stone named Jimi Performer Of The Year. Jimi's last album, Electric Ladyland was number one in the US in 1968. He was the world's highest paid performer in 1969. He would have been even bigger if he had lived past 1970. Album sales and chart status often coincide with Grammys. My point was that Stevie had 6 consecutive years with chart topping albums. Prince had a steady climb before reaching the top of the charts.

skywalker said:

violetcrush said:

I remember reading a comment by Alan Leeds, I think - not sure though, who stated that by the early 2000's Prince had reconciled the fact that he would no longer be "cutting edge", and he settled into being the icon playing his hits and selling out shows.

Alan Leeds also went on to positively gush about how awesome the One Nite Alone tour was and went on to say that he had wish Prince had done this type of thing before. He loved that the focus was on the art/music and not necessarily "the hits" and spectacle.

Yes, I remember him saying that as well. He never liked the big productions, with the exception of the Purple Rain tour, because that was a necessary and hugely successful tour. He was frustrated with the LoveSexy tour. Interestingly, there was a precursor to the ONA shows when he did the brief piano medley of the more artistic songs from ATWIAD, Parade, and SOTT songs during the LoveSexy show. The crowd loved it.

violetcrush said:

jdcxc said:

violetcrush said:

Weren't we talking about album sales and mainstream appeal?? In 1968 Rolling Stone named Jimi Performer Of The Year. Jimi's last album, Electric Ladyland was number one in the US in 1968. He was the world's highest paid performer in 1969. He would have been even bigger if he had lived past 1970. Album sales and chart status often coincide with Grammys. My point was that Stevie had 6 consecutive years with chart topping albums. Prince had a steady climb before reaching the top of the charts.

Grammys are shit. Ask Marvin Gaye, Jimi, James Brown, Marley and George Clinton who have won a combined 2!!! I was debating the magical creative runs that Stevie (1970-1976) and Prince (1980-1988) had, which are both considered amazing sustained stretches of brilliance. Stevie had just been unleashed from his Motown straight jacket. Both of them produced a combined 8 albums that always rank among the best ever by music critics.

Yes, of course all of Prince's output from 1980-1988 is fantastic. My only point was that I think you have to give Stevie the upper hand a bit, because he had 6 years straight of topping the charts. Prince's was a gradual climb up the charts, starting with R&B and then crossing over to hit the top with his 6th album.

violetcrush said:

leecaldon said:

BartVanHemelen said:

grouchy mean bullshit

What promotion did Rave get in the US? No tv appearances, a music video released too late.

MTV TRL appearance, MTV music award presenter, Larry King show, New Years Eve PPv special...I'm forgetting a couple. Or did you a mean by the record company itself?

And total sales is a pretty shitty way to measure an albums overall QUALITY in my opinion, a few outliers excepted.

And I think he played it smart for the most part; avoiding overexposure and see sawing between "artistic statements" and "commercial" ones. I honestly believed it extended his longevity and avoided over exposure. Music fans understood and knew what was up. Name another act from the 80's and his peak that has the same relevance? U2 is up there, Bruce...Madonna? meh. The Police are gone. Seriously he held up well i think.

Did what the fuck he wanted. We should all be so lucky/
gifted/determined

[Edited 11/30/18 15:09pm]

[Edited 11/30/18 15:15pm]

skywalker said:

BEAUGARDE said:

I don't remember MTV playing any of the videos from Parade heavily other than Kiss. I remember Prince videos mostly from BET & VH1. Honestley, I always thought there was some kind feud between Prince & MTV until he performed Sign O' The Times at the awards. I do remember them promoting the movie but not the videos. I think if Prince showed up & did some on MTV (mabybe hosting something, interviews or concerts). Video killed the radio star

Do you remember the Under The Cherry Moon contest/special/premiere concert from Sheridan, Wyoming? They promoted the entire project/movie/album for months....

Yes, I do remember that (lol) I'm just the only video remember being played HEAVILY was Kiss, I'm not saying the other videos were never played but they weren't played like Madonna's videos. I don't think Prince was willing to The Game as Bart said & MTV kept it moving

MattyJam said:

He definitely wrote Black Sweat looking for some of that Neptunes success.

But to the masses, he'd been off the radar for so long by that point it would've taken a near miracle for Prince to have achieved a big chart hit in the 00s.

It's a trip to think it's nearly been 25 years since Prince last troubled the charts in a serious way.

[Edited 11/17/18 3:03am]

Untrue. His albums Planet Earth and Art Official Age actually did very well. The Summer Planet Earth came out, all you heard being played in the UK high street shops was 'Chelsea Rodgers' And Lotusflow3r and PlectrumElectrum reached the #1 position in the US album charts. Prince was and will always essentially remain an album selling artist.

PLANET EARTH

ART OFFICIAL AGE

LOL... Planet Earth is one of the top 10 lowest selling Prince albums.

feeluupp said:

LOL... Planet Earth is one of the top 10 lowest selling Prince albums.

This is not surprising since it was distributed for free in the UK. But does it matter if it still reached the charts, somewhere, somehow? Prince was never totally forgotten. And his success at the O2 is a perfect demonstration of his enduring popularity.

CherryMoon57 said:

feeluupp said:

LOL... Planet Earth is one of the top 10 lowest selling Prince albums.

This is not surprising since it was distributed for free in the UK. But does it matter if it still reached the charts, somewhere, somehow? Prince was never totally forgotten. And his success at the O2 is a perfect demonstration of his enduring popularity.

So why use Planet Earth as an example of him being mainstream??

It's one of his most uncommercial albums. In terms of sales it hasn't even passed 320,000 in the U.S.

His O2 tour and Super Bowl performance had nothing to do with the album, he wasn't even promoting it...

[Edited 11/30/18 17:10pm]

feeluupp said:

CherryMoon57 said:

This is not surprising since it was distributed for free in the UK. But does it matter if it still reached the charts, somewhere, somehow? Prince was never totally forgotten. And his success at the O2 is a perfect demonstration of his enduring popularity.

So why use Planet Earth as an example of him being mainstream??

It's one of his most uncommercial albums. In terms of sales it hasn't even passed 320,000 in the U.S.

His O2 tour and Super Bowl performance had nothing to do with the album, he wasn't even promoting it...

[Edited 11/30/18 17:10pm]

Prince was very mainstream at some point and less so at other times. Just like many mainstream artists, his popularity fluctuated throughout his life but not many can (or choose to) maintain a consistent level of visibility. The most important thing to look at is his steady musical influence over other artists and his ability to fill concert venues... As I said, he never totally ceased being popular. And even now, if you look around, you will notice a lot of current things are in direct or indirect connection with Prince. He is an unwavering musical monument.

CherryMoon57 said:

feeluupp said:

So why use Planet Earth as an example of him being mainstream??

It's one of his most uncommercial albums. In terms of sales it hasn't even passed 320,000 in the U.S.

His O2 tour and Super Bowl performance had nothing to do with the album, he wasn't even promoting it...

[Edited 11/30/18 17:10pm]

Prince was very mainstream at some point and less so at other times. Just like many mainstream artists, his popularity fluctuated throughout his life but not many can (or choose to) maintain a consistent level of visibility. The most important thing to look at is his steady musical influence over other artists and his ability to fill concert venues... As I said, he never totally ceased being popular. And even now, if you look around, you will notice a lot of current things are in direct or indirect connection with Prince. He is an unwavering musical monument.

Yes yes I know... But using Planet Earth as an example for trying to be mainstream makes no sense...

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

Album sales is not what made Prince mainstream again in the 2000’s. It was his badass live shows

Exactly.

feeluupp said:

CherryMoon57 said:

Prince was very mainstream at some point and less so at other times. Just like many mainstream artists, his popularity fluctuated throughout his life but not many can (or choose to) maintain a consistent level of visibility. The most important thing to look at is his steady musical influence over other artists and his ability to fill concert venues... As I said, he never totally ceased being popular. And even now, if you look around, you will notice a lot of current things are in direct or indirect connection with Prince. He is an unwavering musical monument.

Yes yes I know... But using Planet Earth as an example for trying to be mainstream makes no sense...

I was using Planet Earth to show that the album did enter the charts in response to MattyJam who had written that Prince hadn't entered the charts for nearly 25 years.

But anyway, you cannot say wether he was trying to be mainstream of not with the album based on its actual sales. Intentions have nothing to do with results.

violetcrush said:

rdhull said:

"Stevie Wonder came close"..stop embarrassing yourself.

Stevie had won multiple grammies prior to 1976's Songs In The Key Of Life. Prince did not reach Grammy status with his albums until 1999, and didn't win a Grammy until Purple Rain - his 6th album. So with Prince it was a slow steady climb, and with Stevie it was topping the charts for 6 consecutive years.

Im not even concerning grammy. To say that Wonder came close is top ten of ignorant statements about anything regarding music..ever.

feeluupp said:

CherryMoon57 said:

This is not surprising since it was distributed for free in the UK. But does it matter if it still reached the charts, somewhere, somehow? Prince was never totally forgotten. And his success at the O2 is a perfect demonstration of his enduring popularity.

So why use Planet Earth as an example of him being mainstream??

I brought this up earlier.

The last 10-15 years of his career, he knew he couldn't make money selling records or being on the charts and used them as a vehicle to create interest in his live shows, where he could rake in cash. By this time, "being mainstream" was inconsequential as far as having "hits" goes. It didn't matter.

The mainstream success was as a live act. See: the vegas residency, Musiclogy, 21 Nights, etc.

He was GIVING CD's away because they were worthless as a business model (Planet Earth, Musicology, 20Ten, AoA, Indigo Nights) and he wasn't playing the Spotify/I-Tunes game of 2 cents on the dollar.

[Edited 11/30/18 18:50pm]

rdhull said:

violetcrush said:

Stevie had won multiple grammies prior to 1976's Songs In The Key Of Life. Prince did not reach Grammy status with his albums until 1999, and didn't win a Grammy until Purple Rain - his 6th album. So with Prince it was a slow steady climb, and with Stevie it was topping the charts for 6 consecutive years.

Im not even concerning grammy. To say that Wonder came close is top ten of ignorant statements about anything regarding music..ever.

What are you arguing here, exactly? I'm confused.


PRINCE:

5 NO. 1 HITS

19 TOP 10 HITS

46 SONGS


STEVIE:

10 NO. 1 HITS

28 TOP 10 HITS

63 SONGS

herb4 said:

rdhull said:

Im not even concerning grammy. To say that Wonder came close is top ten of ignorant statements about anything regarding music..ever.

What are you arguing here, exactly? I'm confused.


PRINCE:

5 NO. 1 HITS

19 TOP 10 HITS

46 SONGS


STEVIE:

10 NO. 1 HITS

28 TOP 10 HITS

63 SONGS

Read the damn thread.

Jk383dk said this nonsense:"His 1980-1988 run was the greatest in popular music history imho. Stevie Wonder (1970-1976) came close. "

Im sayin Wonder is the epitome of the greatest run in pop history. And for someone to say Wonder was a runner up in that category, even if we are talking about Prince, is ridiculous.

rdhull said:

herb4 said:

What are you arguing here, exactly? I'm confused.


PRINCE:

5 NO. 1 HITS

19 TOP 10 HITS

46 SONGS


STEVIE:

10 NO. 1 HITS

28 TOP 10 HITS

63 SONGS

Read the damn thread.

Jk383dk said this nonsense:"His 1980-1988 run was the greatest in popular music history imho. Stevie Wonder (1970-1976) came close. "

Im sayin Wonder is the epitome of the greatest run in pop history. And for someone to say Wonder was a runner up in that category, even if we are talking about Prince, is ridiculous.

Right, that is what I was saying as well. No one tops Stevie in that respect.

violetcrush said:

rdhull said:

Read the damn thread.

Jk383dk said this nonsense:"His 1980-1988 run was the greatest in popular music history imho. Stevie Wonder (1970-1976) came close. "

Im sayin Wonder is the epitome of the greatest run in pop history. And for someone to say Wonder was a runner up in that category, even if we are talking about Prince, is ridiculous.

Right, that is what I was saying as well. No one tops Stevie in that respect.

Genuine question: Did Stevie Wonder have any one thing as montumental/seismic or pop culture dominating as Purple Rain? The Album/film/tour etc? What I mean, is at his HIGHEST of HIGHS commerically, when did Stevie come closest?

-

It seems to me this "greatest run in pop history" talk is considering singles over albums?

-

Also, didn't Prince have a stretch of 10 years or so with a single in the top 10 every year? Does longevity count for less in the discussion?

[Edited 11/30/18 20:32pm]

skywalker said:

violetcrush said:

Right, that is what I was saying as well. No one tops Stevie in that respect.

Genuine question: Did Stevie Wonder have any one thing as montumental/seismic or pop culture dominating as Purple Rain? The Album/film/tour etc? What I mean, is at his HIGHEST of HIGHS commerically, when did Stevie come closest?

-

It seems to me this "greatest run in pop history" talk is considering singles over albums?

-

Also, didn't Prince have a stretch of 10 years or so with a single in the top 10 every year? Does longevity count for less in the discussion?

[Edited 11/30/18 20:32pm]

Force is with u Skywalker but youre not a jedi yet...sales doesnt mean shit. I mean you say that your dman self. Its greatness and INFLUENCE. Nothing in Princes repetoire is gretaer than Songs In The Key Of Life for example. Fuck the 'subjective' blah blah nonsense people state regarding whats better etc. Nobody is besting Stevies cultural reach and influence regarding his 70's run. Im the biggest Prince fan there is no matter how hard some of yall suck his dick but I aint crazy to think he or anyone else has surpassed Stevie.

I received a free copy of Musicology at the LA theatre stream, but I was never under the impression that it was given to me for free. I figured that it was worked into the price of the ticket, and, to be honest, was a little salty that I was forced to buy a cd like that .

rdhull said:

skywalker said:

Genuine question: Did Stevie Wonder have any one thing as montumental/seismic or pop culture dominating as Purple Rain? The Album/film/tour etc? What I mean, is at his HIGHEST of HIGHS commerically, when did Stevie come closest?

-

It seems to me this "greatest run in pop history" talk is considering singles over albums?

-

Also, didn't Prince have a stretch of 10 years or so with a single in the top 10 every year? Does longevity count for less in the discussion?

[Edited 11/30/18 20:32pm]

Force is with u Skywalker but youre not a jedi yet...sales doesnt mean shit. I mean you say that your dman self. Its greatness and INFLUENCE. Nothing in Princes repetoire is gretaer than Songs In The Key Of Life for example. Fuck the 'subjective' blah blah nonsense people state regarding whats better etc. Nobody is besting Stevies cultural reach and influence regarding his 70's run. Im the biggest Prince fan there is no matter how hard some of yall suck his dick but I aint crazy to think he or anyone else has surpassed Stevie.

Sure, sales don't signal "quality" but they might help to signify how many people have been exposed to and influenced by an album/song/etc. So, if we leave sales out of it, do we leave the charts out of it? What are we using to measure cultural impact?

-

You think Songs in the Key of life is MORE influential than Purple Rain. Yet, what are we basing this on? Was Stevie the most influential artist of the 70's? What about Zeppelin? Bowie? George?

-

All I am saying is that it's a slippery slope when trying to measure cultural impact. What do we use to compare?

-

Example: People copied the Purple Rain "look" for, at least, 2-3 years after Purple Rain hit. Prince's impact on fashion is well documented.

Did people dress up like Stevie Wonder during the Songs in the Key of Life era?

-

I am not trying to be obtuse. I view Stevie as being a genius and as important as Prince. Again,

how do you compare the impact of Songs in the Key of Life to Purple Rain without it being subjective? I am genuinely asking.

[Edited 11/30/18 21:58pm]