RJOrion said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

firing Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis

yep...there is no close second choice, either

What would it have changed? They had no say in the music that was on the records and they would have left anyway after PR, like everyone else, to pursue their own career. The Time couldn't possibly have lasted very much longer, because it was Prince's project and they all had to think of their own careers sooner or later.

.

Then people will say Prince shoulda let them do the music on the records, but then it wouldn't have been The Time anymore. Besides, they didn't need Prince to make a band and yet when they moved away from him they didn't. When Prince had to let them do what they wanted with Pandemonium, it didn't last a year, and when they tried again with The Original 7ven, it didn't last a year either.

[Edited 11/21/18 9:12am]

RJOrion said:

also....using masonic symbolisms and rituals, and baphomet symbols and gestures...and either knowingly or unknowingly compromising his soul to enhance his status...

Oh, lawd...

RJOrion said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

firing Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis

yep...there is no close second choice, either

Yeah it was so bad he went on to Purple Rain sucess, SOTT success, Lovesexy etc etc

rdhull said:

RJOrion said:

OldFriends4Sale said: yep...there is no close second choice, either

Yeah it was so bad he went on to Purple Rain sucess, SOTT success, Lovesexy etc etc

blame it on his death..people have lost their minds

Not owning this website.

PliablyPurple said:

Not owning this website.

Oh, he tried...

purplethunder3121 said:

With fans like these who needs enemies.

RJOrion said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

firing Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis

yep...there is no close second choice, either

Get the feeling some folkes care more about The Time than Prince. don't get it.

Because he was such a good live performer, I would have expected more live albums and dvd's/blu-rays. A bit strange we got so little official live material releases during his life. I also hoped he would have embraced the online music market more and share live concerts (like Pearl Jam) and more songs from the vault. Also live broadcast from more performances. Other than that he was in control and did the things he was good at.

Guitarhero said:

RJOrion said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Oh, lawd...

i NEVER once mentioned "illuminati"...

Beware the musical masons!

Guitarhero said:

RJOrion said:

OldFriends4Sale said: yep...there is no close second choice, either

Get the feeling some folkes care more about The Time than Prince. don't get it.

what do you mean?

.

the firing of Jimmy & Terry, totally affect Prince and Ice Cream Castles

.

in 2009 @ Coachella when he had Morris & Jerome(open) with him Prince said "This is how the PR tour was supposed to be"

.

The Time was never going to be the Time without Jimmy & Terry(Jeromes brother) it soured Morris, it messes up what could have been and what Prince hoped for success-wise. He was still expecting/hoping the Time was going to be on the tour even after the PR movie premiere

.

caring about the Time is also caring about Prince

databank said:

RJOrion said:

yep...there is no close second choice, either

What would it have changed? They had no say in the music that was on the records and they would have left anyway after PR, like everyone else, to pursue their own career. The Time couldn't possibly have lasted very much longer, because it was Prince's project and they all had to think of their own careers sooner or later.

.

Then people will say Prince shoulda let them do the music on the records, but then it wouldn't have been The Time anymore. Besides, they didn't need Prince to make a band and yet when they moved away from him they didn't. When Prince had to let them do what they wanted with Pandemonium, it didn't last a year, and when they tried again with The Original 7ven, it didn't last a year either.

[Edited 11/21/18 9:12am]

It would have changed the Purple Rain era: Ice Cream Castles era was nothing as a result. What Bside or long versions could have come out? What performances and music would have come as a result.

People left for other reasons. Even Jimmy said they would have stayed there because of the guys and it was fun and exciting.

Even if they just went a few more years. That would have been a great ride.
.

The Time band was reproducing Prince's sound and vision so it would have been the Time.

Also the Time on the Graffiti Bridge album was the Time band/not Prince.

Like when people still think Prince did Too Sexy, but that was Sheila E, Benny R, Steph B and Miko

And to be fair the 'Prince' scene was changed in 1990, so even what Prince was doing didn't work nor did it last a year. But that had a lot to do with the FLOP of the movie Graffiti Bridge.
But from February- October the Time was doing videos, releasing singles and doing performance.

By Ice Cream Castles 3 songs 'all Prince/Morris' '3 songs by Prince with the Time' '3 song by the Time'

.
Also Morris Day & Jesse Johnson were more involved and songs like My Summertime Thang involved Jimmy & Terry. There is a possibility the full Time would have been more involved in the music and following albums.

What else would it have changed? Read some interviews by Jellybean.
What would it have changed? Prince started his own label... he would have had people who could help him build that and produce acts

OldFriends4Sale said:

databank said:

What would it have changed? They had no say in the music that was on the records and they would have left anyway after PR, like everyone else, to pursue their own career. The Time couldn't possibly have lasted very much longer, because it was Prince's project and they all had to think of their own careers sooner or later.

.

Then people will say Prince shoulda let them do the music on the records, but then it wouldn't have been The Time anymore. Besides, they didn't need Prince to make a band and yet when they moved away from him they didn't. When Prince had to let them do what they wanted with Pandemonium, it didn't last a year, and when they tried again with The Original 7ven, it didn't last a year either.

[Edited 11/21/18 9:12am]

It would have changed the Purple Rain era: Ice Cream Castles era was nothing as a result. What Bside or long versions could have come out? What performances and music would have come as a result.

People left for other reasons. Even Jimmy said they would have stayed there because of the guys and it was fun and exciting.

Even if they just went a few more years. That would have been a great ride.
.

The Time band was reproducing Prince's sound and vision so it would have been the Time.

Also the Time on the Graffiti Bridge album was the Time band/not Prince.

Like when people still think Prince did Too Sexy, but that was Sheila E, Benny R, Steph B and Miko

And to be fair the 'Prince' scene was changed in 1990, so even what Prince was doing didn't work nor did it last a year. But that had a lot to do with the FLOP of the movie Graffiti Bridge.
But from February- October the Time was doing videos, releasing singles and doing performance.

By Ice Cream Castles 3 songs 'all Prince/Morris' '3 songs by Prince with the Time' '3 song by the Time'

.
Also Morris Day & Jesse Johnson were more involved and songs like My Summertime Thang involved Jimmy & Terry. There is a possibility the full Time would have been more involved in the music and following albums.

What else would it have changed? Read some interviews by Jellybean.
What would it have changed? Prince started his own label... he would have had people who could help him build that and produce acts

RJOrion said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

firing Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis

yep...there is no close second choice, either

But according to them he technically didn't.

EnDoRpHn said:

eugenius said:

To me, P's biggest miscalculation was when he decided to take ecstasy with Ingrid Chavez on December 1, 1987.

.
There's nothing wrong with a little experimentaion, but Prince couldn't handle his high. He thought he had a religious experience and that The Black Album was dark. It wasn't -- it wasn't a perfect LP, but it was a perfect followup to Sign 'o of Times and was in line with his trajectory as one of the most exciting and dangerous artists of our time.
.

Instead, he put out the safe and unfunky Lovesexy and while "Alphabet St." and "When 2 R in Love" were nice, the album signified Prince's decline as an unpredictable musician.

.

There were a few shining moments in Diamonds and Pearls, but everything embarassing happened after December 1, 1987. Where do I begin?

.

1. He allowed the Game Boyz to happen which gave Kirky J an outlet to rap.

2. Everything that had to do with Graffiti Bridge (although "Theives in the Temple" was a jam).

3. He let Larry Graham convert him to JW which took him to the point of no return.

4. He blew his chance at building the Paisley Park label into a label that could've rivaled Motown.

5. He arried superfan Manuela Testolini.

6. He lost Alan Leeds and never bothered finding a suitable replacement.

7. He sued Uptown.

.

These are just a few major errors after he thought God spoke to him the night he took that hit of X.

That wasn’t Prince. Google William Rector. [Edited 11/21/18 6:00am]

google lists nothing for a William Rector except a bunch of old white guys who died decades ago. you'll have to be less cryptic if if you're trying to make a point.

OldFriends4Sale said:

that was Cat not Ingrid

eugenius said:

To me, P's biggest miscalculation was when he decided to take ecstasy with Ingrid Chavez on December 1, 1987.

.
There's nothing wrong with a little experimentaion, but Prince couldn't handle his high. He thought he had a religious experience and that The Black Album was dark. It wasn't -- it wasn't a perfect LP, but it was a perfect followup to Sign 'o of Times and was in line with his trajectory as one of the most exciting and dangerous artists of our time.
.

Instead, he put out the safe and unfunky Lovesexy and while "Alphabet St." and "When 2 R in Love" were nice, the album signified Prince's decline as an unpredictable musician.

.

There were a few shining moments in Diamonds and Pearls, but everything embarassing happened after December 1, 1987. Where do I begin?

.

1. He allowed the Game Boyz to happen which gave Kirky J an outlet to rap.

2. Everything that had to do with Graffiti Bridge (although "Theives in the Temple" was a jam).

3. He let Larry Graham convert him to JW which took him to the point of no return.

4. He blew his chance at building the Paisley Park label into a label that could've rivaled Motown.

5. He arried superfan Manuela Testolini.

6. He lost Alan Leeds and never bothered finding a suitable replacement.

7. He sued Uptown.

.

These are just a few major errors after he thought God spoke to him the night he took that hit of X.

Cat gave him the drugs (given to her by Anthony Keidis), but he took that one hit with Chavez.

[Edited 11/21/18 12:37pm]

RJOrion said:

when black people speak on the systematic killing of our celebrities who dared to go against the entertainment industry, and in some cases even win temporary battles, only to end up dead under mysterious and often ritualistic circumstances, they get called bitter, racist, crazy, or "conspiracy theorists"...so of course the black sheep and the non black in general will mock and ridicule, even when the evidence is right in their faces...but those who can see, see ...its cool

RJOrion said:

when black people speak on the systematic killing of our celebrities who dared to go against the entertainment industry, and in some cases even win temporary battles, only to end up dead under mysterious and often ritualistic circumstances, they get called bitter, racist, crazy, or "conspiracy theorists"...so of course the black sheep and the non black in general will mock and ridicule, even when the evidence is right in their faces...but those who can see, see ...its cool

a number of people from his circle believe that, troy beyer seems to think that, if they really feel that strong they should do something about it.

eugenius said:

PennyPurple said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

databank said:

What would it have changed? They had no say in the music that was on the records and they would have left anyway after PR, like everyone else, to pursue their own career. The Time couldn't possibly have lasted very much longer, because it was Prince's project and they all had to think of their own careers sooner or later.

.

Then people will say Prince shoulda let them do the music on the records, but then it wouldn't have been The Time anymore. Besides, they didn't need Prince to make a band and yet when they moved away from him they didn't. When Prince had to let them do what they wanted with Pandemonium, it didn't last a year, and when they tried again with The Original 7ven, it didn't last a year either.

[Edited 11/21/18 9:12am]

It would have changed the Purple Rain era: Ice Cream Castles era was nothing as a result. What Bside or long versions could have come out? What performances and music would have come as a result.

I don't think the record would have been much different and some b-sides were already there in the vault, that could have been released if Prince had wanted to. Best you would have gotten would have been The Time opening the PR Tour, and it would have ended with Prince and the Time members hating each other even more, spoiling the tour for everyone involved (and the tour was already a heavy strain on Prince as it was).

.

People left for other reasons. Even Jimmy said they would have stayed there because of the guys and it was fun and exciting.

Yeah that's what they say, but their career as producers was taking off and that wasn't compatible with The Time, so they would have left anyway. They wanted to be producers above all.

.

Even if they just went a few more years. That would have been a great ride.

Like I said, the best you could have hoped for was an extra tour. Maybe an extra album could have been recorded in the Summer/Fall of 1984, before the tour started, at about the same time Prince recorded the Family stuff, but then we wouldn't have had the Family album and that would have been a real tragic loss.
.

The Time band was reproducing Prince's sound and vision so it would have been the Time.

Yeah well for how long would they have wanted to just reproduce Prince's sound? That's the thing you know.

.

Also the Time on the Graffiti Bridge album was the Time band/not Prince.

Absolutely not. The GB songs are all from Corporate World, it's just Prince and Morris. Pandemonium featured the band a little more (some songs are still 100% Prince and Morris), but then again how come they disbanded immediately after that record? They could have gone on, WB would have been happy.

Like when people still think Prince did Too Sexy, but that was Sheila E, Benny R, Steph B and Miko

True. It's not about whether they could but whether they would.

.

And to be fair the 'Prince' scene was changed in 1990, so even what Prince was doing didn't work nor did it last a year. But that had a lot to do with the FLOP of the movie Graffiti Bridge.
But from February- October the Time was doing videos, releasing singles and doing performance.
They broke because they didn't get along too well (they fired Jesse) and because they wanted to prioritize their own projects (Jimmy and Terry in particular). Pandemonium was The Time's biggest seller ever, so it was all but a flop: WB was happy and the band should have been happy, too. GB sold decently as well. The movie was just a casualty and was P's failure not the Time's, nothing much to worry about. Then when Morris reformed the band in 95 (and the only reason he did it was because he was out of a record deal and still had to pay the bills), only those also in need of a job showed up. And when everyone finally showed up in 2011, they again didn't get along and split.

.

By Ice Cream Castles 3 songs 'all Prince/Morris' '3 songs by Prince with the Time' '3 song by the Time'

There isn't a single track with all bandmembers playing on ICC. Not even The Bird despite it being based on a live recording

.
Also Morris Day & Jesse Johnson were more involved

True

and songs like My Summertime Thang involved Jimmy & Terry

Not true as far as I know, or did I miss something?.

There is a possibility the full Time would have been more involved in the music and following albums.

.

What else would it have changed? Read some interviews by Jellybean.

Yeah Morris was pissed as hell, everyone was, but the relationship was already tense before that, and it would have kept going worse anyway.

.

What would it have changed? Prince started his own label... he would have had people who could help him build that and produce acts

Not in this world. Not with Prince being Prince and Morris being Morris and Jesse being Jesse and Jam & Lewis meeting the success they've met as producers outside of P's influence.

Jesse was asked to stay and replace Morris after PR and he chose to leave. When Prince offered him a song for Shockadelica, Jesse reportedly said "this was the last thing he needed". They all wanted to exist outside of Prince's influence. Not just them BTW: both André and Mark said they were pissed they had to ask Prince for songs after they left, and only did it because their respective labels pressured them to get some purple hits.

Jimmy suggested that they could have stayed if they hadn't taken P's word for firing them, as the paychecks were still coming for a while. It could have been like Alan Leeds said about JB: people being "fired every other week" but in the end being taken back every time once "punishment" was over. But they didn't stay.

Then Terry was asked to come back for PR and didn't because Jimmy wasn't invited, but then again maybe if he'd insisted for Jimmy to come back with him Prince would have said OK... But he didn't insist.

But there's even better, and that's the final nail on the coffin as far as I'm concerned: Before Terry and Jimmy were fired, Morris was already telling the other bandmembers to prepare themselves for whatever was coming next, because he already knew that The Time couldn't last for very much longer. Jimmy told that story many times.

It was a bit like when Apples said "I wasn't gonna play the 'Apollonia in underwear' part beyond that one PR project": they were playing a part, and it so happened they were musicians, not actors.

.

As with the Revolution discussions we've had, I think you're over-idealizing those years, the relationships between all those people and projecting your own fantasies over reality. Just the other day I was listening to this Alan Leeds interview when he said as early as 1983 if the Revolution was having a good time and Prince got in the room everyone would go tense and silent, afraid that the first one to speak would say something "wrong" and get a lecture for it. This says a lot about the atmosphere in the purple world back then. Sure they also had good times with Prince and all, but people were kept on their toes (and underpaid!).

.

Like I said, best we could have hoped for was a 3rd tour with Prince that would have ended badly, and a 4th album in 1985 that have taken the place of The Family, and I wouldn't trade that against The Family no matter how much I love The Time.

.

We're buddies, so let's agree to disagree.

Graffiti Bridge and Rave...

HerecomethePurpleYoda said:

8. He went after his very own fans.

Platforms.
Not fans.
3 Platforms run by a handful of individuals.

databank said:

Guitarhero said:

With fans like these who needs enemies.

Little people with little lives despising and judging the rich, the powerful and the gifted up above. It's a pathetic fantasy as old as civilization.

Very true.