Folks consume every part of P that they can lay their hands on.
This part though? Nah, this part is irrelevant, & doesn't concern them.

The sooner it quietly goes away the better.
So let's lurk. Let's ignore.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/prince-was-not-biracial-he-loved-his-blacknessand-yours

I recall the Mojo '14 interview (mentioned in the above article) resulted in some ignorant comments from certain fans.

[Edited 11/16/18 20:58pm]

rdhull said:

How come there ain’t no brothas on the sticky, Sal!?(c) Buggin Out/Do The Right Thing

*

Classic!!!

1725topp said:

I remember when he passed, an author wrote an article celebrating Prince being mixed....then deleted it when she realized he wasn't


As others stated, as Prince grew older and more established in his career, his work got "blacker".

When you listen to Emanicpation and especially the 2004-2016 work, there's no denying it.

RicoN said:

bonatoc said:

Of course. The man got Soul until the very end.
Vitiligo has been discussed over and over.
There are pics circa 1982 where you can clearly see patches in the neck.
His skin condition was deteriorating.

And it's not the outer shell the issue here.

Do universal artists, or rather artists with universal ambitions — because such was their ambitiion,
otherwise they would have chosen the Public Enemy or N.W.A. path —consider they belong to a specific community?
That would negate the universality. Seeing the crowds getting whiter, can you imagine that?
Prince and Michael really must have felt like Nietzsche's Übermensch.

But you can't erase your childhood, can you? They were lucky to be born
in post riots times, but it still had an impact on the previous generation, their fathers'.
Violence, when you can't expulse it on way or the other, turns into self-hatred.
And what's easier than to hate yourself? Your family, in times where man still reigns supreme in his house.

It's Joe's obsession with getting it back socially, but it's also Mattie and her longing for freedom,
which will obsess SKipper all his life. They can say what you want about you, as long as you're free it doesn't truly matter.
Some like that. You can see that this is not a gimmick: Prince put his career upside down because restraining him was out of the question.
But define career; that's for another topic. I consider the whole of his career fantastic. He didn't betray himself. He chose to start from scratch.
To go back into the pit - and it never was such a drag. Clubs witnessed lots of fun — and cash burning. He just thought he had to give (spend) it all,
in order to get back, a typical christian trauma. What would have your life be if you were called "Prince" and born in middle-class, not too good, not too bad?
Would you go "I have to live up to this name all my life"?

There is also a specific "never give up" kind of Gospel motto that originated
in the first chants down in some boat or later in some cotton field.
Soul (in the largest sense, ignore the styles) Music was born from suffering.
The drive born from it may not be your usual drive.

Michael and Prince were both fascinated by the concept of the "chosen one".
Once you've attained a Coke Ad (note: a white aryan starts the song) audience,
it's easy to think of yourself as God's hand, finally(!) stirring the Melting Pot (you have to keep stirring, always stir, otherwise Society makes sticky clogs).

But there is also something worth noting about Prince. His name, which is pretty heavy.
There never were a Prince in the US. (Modern) royalty is a European concept. So from the start, Prince is an alien.
The only american King is Elvis. So of course Prince is taking back all the heritage from a pink's ass.

Prince and Michael would have never happened in the land of the blond squares,
if Presley or Lewis didn't sneak into a black church. This is an accident.

But Prince and Michael would have never happened
if a white himself didn't twist and shout (another slang term for F)
before a whole tight-ass white racist country.
Presley's presence shouts that black rhythm is the best.
In a few seconds he's all about primal trance, and letting go.
Just like in african spiritual gatherings.
Not seen in white men since pagan times.
This is no accident: this is intention.
Elvis never shied away from his adoptive roots: from boycotting segregated concerts or singing "In The Ghetto",
Presley dreamt naively of a South where black and whites would shake their hips together.
And then fame, money and junk food (all White Educated Men Society byproducts) ruined the Dream.

Maybe Prince also envisions himself as a race reconciliator: he inherits from a white who inherited from the black.
A lot of good critics, usually the best from what I've read,
never EVER fail to mention Prince as black. The Ohio Players and other obscure influences are regularly mentioned since 1985. Only in Europe?

In Europe, there are somewhat frequent national excuses about the way the colonies were treated.
It sends a message to the population that the nation knwos when to shits on herself or on her supposed grand past.
I was gonna say the US could take example, but went way ahead: Obama and Oprah are the final steps in the mountain climbing. Was it what it seemed?
So maybe the whole problem is the general american public perception, but why care about that?
Have you seen your country lately, ooh-ooh-oo-ooooh-yeah?
Culture knows how to take care of itself.
Truth usually stands the test of time.


Poor white guys who suddenly taste the social exclusion medecine themselves
are still kept in ignorance. Which is the best weapon, when you don't know squat about economics
it's easy to persuade you someone stole your money. Now pick your easiest target.
So if this is the human condition of the panicked american white (man, not woman), I wouldn't care about his culture yet.
There are priorities. First he has to reread the whole story. Ignorance is a hell of a weapon, but knowledge is The Redeemer.

[Edited 11/13/18 4:40am]

I must admit that's a bit TLDR (and mumbo jumbo) but the vitiligo thing is pure BS - what are the chances of the only Jackson obsessed with being white developing a condition that made him white eh?

The entire family has been accused of being "self haters" from the nose jobs, having non-black partners and such, but that could be seen as an example of colorism that exists in the African American community

Jackson DID in fact have vitiligo. It was diagnosed, listed in his autopsy and discussed by the doctors who treated him as well as the depigmentation he chose to do after being diagnosed. If you want to believe he had issues with his skin color, fine, but it was confirmed years ago he had the disorder.

And just because he got lighter, doesn't mean he stopped being black

[Edited 11/20/18 0:50am]

bboy87 said:

I remember when he passed, an author wrote an article celebrating Prince being mixed....then deleted it when she realized he wasn't


As others stated, as Prince grew older and more established in his career, his work got "blacker".

When you listen to Emanicpation and especially the 2004-2016 work, there's no denying it.

blacker? Planet Earth 20Ten AoA, that music? especially in that time frame, what defines 'blacker' music in pop culture. Prince continued being Prince and doing a mix of genres he never stopped.

And those from that time period are some of his worst albums. His post WB albums just were not that good. The Truth(accustic) and Rainbow Children(modern feel of his 1980-1988 music) are two of his best from the 90s and 2000s.

.

.

.

Tina Marie did it 100%

OldFriends4Sale said:

bboy87 said:

I remember when he passed, an author wrote an article celebrating Prince being mixed....then deleted it when she realized he wasn't


As others stated, as Prince grew older and more established in his career, his work got "blacker".

When you listen to Emanicpation and especially the 2004-2016 work, there's no denying it.

blacker? Planet Earth 20Ten AoA, that music? especially in that time frame, what defines 'blacker' music in pop culture. And those are some of his worst albums

.

.

Tina Marie did it 100%

I meant the tone and the more R&B sound of songs like Musicology, Walk In Sand and others

and I don't like Planet Earth either I'm not the biggest fan of his post WB work but the direction he took on a portion of the music was very much directed at the R&B fans

[Edited 11/20/18 5:22am]

bboy87 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

blacker? Planet Earth 20Ten AoA, that music? especially in that time frame, what defines 'blacker' music in pop culture. And those are some of his worst albums

.

.

Tina Marie did it 100%

I meant the tone and the more R&B sound of songs like Musicology, Walk In Sand and others

and I don't like Planet Earth either I'm not the biggest fan of his post WB work but the direction he took on a portion of the music was very much directed at the R&B fans

[Edited 11/20/18 5:22am]

If you listen through out his career, you'll hear those sounds since the 80s

.

Musicology -his James Brown jam: The Work, Sexy MF, Love or Money, Irresistable Bitch/Cloreen Bacon Skin

Walk In the Sand -listen to the piano sounds you'll hear that as far back as Hold Me(Sheila) your hear it on 1999 and Purple Rain tracks, Fathers Song, Do Me Baby. That is one reason I like it because it didn't have that hollow plastic sound a lot of his latter 90s and 2000s music had.

Reflections, Tangerine etc all sound like a lot of his early demo and 'accustic' pieces he's had on most of his albums

With 20Ten, he reached back and input some of that '1981 Tick Tick Bang-New Wave feel' and a watered down synth feel.

Planet Earth: ie Last December, the Cross, the Ladder, Purple Rain, Free

Somewhere Hear on Earth, is an easy song, that you hear throught his whole career in various degrees(feels like a nod to the Parade (Dream Factory)era) but also Revelation(2015)
Guitar -the rockabilly that Prince has always done -Let's Go Crazy

Resolution -feels like music from Prince Dirty Mind or Controversy(the guitar playing really reminds me of those periods) and feels folkier

.

.

Yeah it might have been, but R&B fans don't = Black fans. The people I see bumpin the hardest rap music are white. But overall, the albums continued a vibe Prince had in the 80s. Rock Funk Soul Folk + jazz classical etc The stuff seemed really easy for Prince to do in the 2000s
Rainbow Children is the one album that really felt 'inspired' and feels overall like 'Prince music' or his sound. Those are the songs I tend to like more, that feel like a genuine work of his sound. I want to know what the follow up Rainbow Children was going to sound like.

.
The other stuff sounds like him trying to emulate what he thinks he popular rnb rap or pop sounds.
and those 2001-2011 albums, which many are outtakes from other albums from the period. The name dropping was too much.

There is definately some great sounds/music throught the albums. But for me a lot of times the lyrical delivery doesn't match.
.
And AoA is like some futuristic electro pop funk

Prince told someone he never understood why people wanted to compare him to MJ, because he was a guitarist, he said compare me to other guitar shredders.

OldFriends4Sale said:

bboy87 said:

I meant the tone and the more R&B sound of songs like Musicology, Walk In Sand and others

and I don't like Planet Earth either I'm not the biggest fan of his post WB work but the direction he took on a portion of the music was very much directed at the R&B fans

[Edited 11/20/18 5:22am]

If you listen through out his career, you'll hear those sounds since the 80s

.

Musicology -his James Brown jam: The Work, Sexy MF, Love or Money, Irresistable Bitch/Cloreen Bacon Skin

Walk In the Sand -listen to the piano sounds you'll hear that as far back as Hold Me(Sheila) your hear it on 1999 and Purple Rain tracks, Fathers Song, Do Me Baby. That is one reason I like it because it didn't have that hollow plastic sound a lot of his latter 90s and 2000s music had.

Reflections, Tangerine etc all sound like a lot of his early demo and 'accustic' pieces he's had on most of his albums

With 20Ten, he reached back and input some of that '1981 Tick Tick Bang-New Wave feel' and a watered down synth feel.

Planet Earth: ie Last December, the Cross, the Ladder, Purple Rain, Free

Somewhere Hear on Earth, is an easy song, that you hear throught his whole career in various degrees(feels like a nod to the Parade (Dream Factory)era) but also Revelation(2015)
Guitar -the rockabilly that Prince has always done -Let's Go Crazy

Resolution -feels like music from Prince Dirty Mind or Controversy(the guitar playing really reminds me of those periods) and feels folkier

.

.

Yeah it might have been, but R&B fans don't = Black fans. The people I see bumpin the hardest rap music are white. But overall, the albums continued a vibe Prince had in the 80s. Rock Funk Soul Folk + jazz classical etc The stuff seemed really easy for Prince to do in the 2000s
Rainbow Children is the one album that really felt 'inspired' and feels overall like 'Prince music' or his sound. Those are the songs I tend to like more, that feel like a genuine work of his sound. I want to know what the follow up Rainbow Children was going to sound like.

.
The other stuff sounds like him trying to emulate what he thinks he popular rnb rap or pop sounds.
and those 2001-2011 albums, which many are outtakes from other albums from the period. The name dropping was too much.

There is definately some great sounds/music throught the albums. But for me a lot of times the lyrical delivery doesn't match.
.
And AoA is like some futuristic electro pop funk

Prince told someone he never understood why people wanted to compare him to MJ, because he was a guitarist, he said compare me to other guitar shredders.

I get what you're saying and I agree.

was just stating my thoughts on the matter

[Edited 11/20/18 6:50am]

[Edited 11/20/18 6:50am]

bboy87 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

If you listen through out his career, you'll hear those sounds since the 80s

.

Musicology -his James Brown jam: The Work, Sexy MF, Love or Money, Irresistable Bitch/Cloreen Bacon Skin

Walk In the Sand -listen to the piano sounds you'll hear that as far back as Hold Me(Sheila) your hear it on 1999 and Purple Rain tracks, Fathers Song, Do Me Baby. That is one reason I like it because it didn't have that hollow plastic sound a lot of his latter 90s and 2000s music had.

Reflections, Tangerine etc all sound like a lot of his early demo and 'accustic' pieces he's had on most of his albums

With 20Ten, he reached back and input some of that '1981 Tick Tick Bang-New Wave feel' and a watered down synth feel.

Planet Earth: ie Last December, the Cross, the Ladder, Purple Rain, Free

Somewhere Hear on Earth, is an easy song, that you hear throught his whole career in various degrees(feels like a nod to the Parade (Dream Factory)era) but also Revelation(2015)
Guitar -the rockabilly that Prince has always done -Let's Go Crazy

Resolution -feels like music from Prince Dirty Mind or Controversy(the guitar playing really reminds me of those periods) and feels folkier

.

.

Yeah it might have been, but R&B fans don't = Black fans. The people I see bumpin the hardest rap music are white. But overall, the albums continued a vibe Prince had in the 80s. Rock Funk Soul Folk + jazz classical etc The stuff seemed really easy for Prince to do in the 2000s
Rainbow Children is the one album that really felt 'inspired' and feels overall like 'Prince music' or his sound. Those are the songs I tend to like more, that feel like a genuine work of his sound. I want to know what the follow up Rainbow Children was going to sound like.

.
The other stuff sounds like him trying to emulate what he thinks he popular rnb rap or pop sounds.
and those 2001-2011 albums, which many are outtakes from other albums from the period. The name dropping was too much.

There is definately some great sounds/music throught the albums. But for me a lot of times the lyrical delivery doesn't match.
.
And AoA is like some futuristic electro pop funk

Prince told someone he never understood why people wanted to compare him to MJ, because he was a guitarist, he said compare me to other guitar shredders.

I get what you're saying and I agree

was just stating my thoughts

I know, no static at all

This race crap annoys me because who gives a shit ? And if you have eyes that see, isn't it obvious what race he is ? Back in the late 70's, when I bought For You, the artist on the cover was a fine black dude. Next few albums, still black and even finer. 1999 and me and my friends were besotted. And how about that, Prince was still black !

We - females - don't care what color he was. We were quite aware of his genius and talent as much as of his teasing and taunting of us. The greatest instrumentalist we'd ever seen. He was also the most handsome, beautiful, hypnotic, alluring, sensuously perfect man on earth. Do Me Baby ? Cement. Resistance was futile. I loved him so much and I will never get over his death. I'll never see talent nor beauty like that again in my lifetime. I'm grateful that God sent him, and made him a black man.

If he weren't black, he wouldn't be Prince.

ChanGirl said:

ChanGirl said:

upinclouds said:

there is no reason to “reclaim” Prince being black. He just was. I’m confused as to why there needed to be essays, short stories or what have you about it? His music had attitude, spiritualism, more depth. Each album evolved, not “blacker” very insipid. Music has no color. Can we please stop all the MJ references too? We’re on a Prince forum,lol [Edited 11/21/18 20:09pm] [Edited 11/21/18 20:12pm] [Edited 11/21/18 20:13pm]

upinclouds said:

there is no reason to “reclaim” Prince being black. He just was. I’m confused as to why there needed to be essays, short stories or what have you about it? His music had attitude, spiritualism, more depth. Each album evolved, not “blacker” very insipid. Music has no color. Can we please stop all the MJ references too? We’re on a Prince forum,lol [Edited 11/21/18 20:09pm] [Edited 11/21/18 20:12pm] [Edited 11/21/18 20:13pm]

^^^but the people behind it often do.

rdhull said:

upinclouds said:

there is no reason to “reclaim” Prince being black. He just was. I’m confused as to why there needed to be essays, short stories or what have you about it? His music had attitude, spiritualism, more depth. Each album evolved, not “blacker” very insipid. Music has no color. Can we please stop all the MJ references too? We’re on a Prince forum,lol [Edited 11/21/18 20:09pm] [Edited 11/21/18 20:12pm] [Edited 11/21/18 20:13pm]

Joined:

April 8th 2018

RJOrion said:

white people and black people will NEVER agree on issues of race...there is still too much blood on the hands of the ruling white elite for the races to ever come together in true peace...mainly because the whites have never shown any contrition or remorse for their transgressions against different peoples of color...nor have they ever been held accountable...thats why polarizing opinions on almost ANY issues regarding race, will always exist...that includes when discussing Prince Nelson...

While he was above all that.

CatB said:

RJOrion said:

CatB said:

While he was above all that.

no he wasnt...he made songs about the historicals evils... ie. Family Name... P was very aware

Yes he was. And it's a huge difference between being aware of something and identifying oneself with it.

OldFriends4Sale said:

bboy87 said:

I meant the tone and the more R&B sound of songs like Musicology, Walk In Sand and others

and I don't like Planet Earth either I'm not the biggest fan of his post WB work but the direction he took on a portion of the music was very much directed at the R&B fans

[Edited 11/20/18 5:22am]

If you listen through out his career, you'll hear those sounds since the 80s

.

Musicology -his James Brown jam: The Work, Sexy MF, Love or Money, Irresistable Bitch/Cloreen Bacon Skin

Walk In the Sand -listen to the piano sounds you'll hear that as far back as Hold Me(Sheila) your hear it on 1999 and Purple Rain tracks, Fathers Song, Do Me Baby. That is one reason I like it because it didn't have that hollow plastic sound a lot of his latter 90s and 2000s music had.

Reflections, Tangerine etc all sound like a lot of his early demo and 'accustic' pieces he's had on most of his albums

With 20Ten, he reached back and input some of that '1981 Tick Tick Bang-New Wave feel' and a watered down synth feel.

Planet Earth: ie Last December, the Cross, the Ladder, Purple Rain, Free

Somewhere Hear on Earth, is an easy song, that you hear throught his whole career in various degrees(feels like a nod to the Parade (Dream Factory)era) but also Revelation(2015)
Guitar -the rockabilly that Prince has always done -Let's Go Crazy

Resolution -feels like music from Prince Dirty Mind or Controversy(the guitar playing really reminds me of those periods) and feels folkier

.

.

Yeah it might have been, but R&B fans don't = Black fans. The people I see bumpin the hardest rap music are white. But overall, the albums continued a vibe Prince had in the 80s. Rock Funk Soul Folk + jazz classical etc The stuff seemed really easy for Prince to do in the 2000s
Rainbow Children is the one album that really felt 'inspired' and feels overall like 'Prince music' or his sound. Those are the songs I tend to like more, that feel like a genuine work of his sound. I want to know what the follow up Rainbow Children was going to sound like.

.
The other stuff sounds like him trying to emulate what he thinks he popular rnb rap or pop sounds.
and those 2001-2011 albums, which many are outtakes from other albums from the period. The name dropping was too much.

There is definately some great sounds/music throught the albums. But for me a lot of times the lyrical delivery doesn't match.
.
And AoA is like some futuristic electro pop funk

Prince told someone he never understood why people wanted to compare him to MJ, because he was a guitarist, he said compare me to other guitar shredders.

*

The problem with your response is that black people invented/created rock-n-roll, ie Little Richard and Chuck Berry on the backs of the blues men and women who birthed them. So, when Prince is creating "Guitar" in the vein of "Let's Go Crazy," he's working in the African-American music tradition, in the same way that Eddie Hazel and Ernie Isley were. (Rockabilly is just a white interpretation of swinging blues; that's basic music history and theory 101.) And, that's the problem with this discussion that far too many people have attempted to lessen the humanity of black (African American) people by lessening who they are by lessening what they have created.

*

Additionally, your comment that "R&B fans don't = Black fans" is convenient for your position but somewhat misleading if not disingenuous. (And, the only reason I don't want to say that your statement is disingenuous is because I don't believe it is your intention to lie or mislead.) So, while you "see white people bumping the hardest rap," are you going to say that white people invented rap or R&B and that the majority of black people don't support rap and R&B? Yes, it's difficult, almost impossible, for a R&B or rap song/album to become number one if a good number of whites don't purchase it. But, purchasing something and, even, co-opting it does not deny the history that it was created by black genius, such as rock-n-roll. And, the same is true of jazz, funk, soul, and blues. Yes, they have all been co-opted, embraced if you prefer, by whites, but they are all genres that come fundamentally from African-American tradition, or are we denying this factual history as well? As such, The Rainbow Children is a funk, jazz, soul fuse album that is undeniably black in musical aesthetic as well as being a spiritual Afrocentric mantra. It may be the "blackest" record Prince has ever created. And, when you think about the manner in which Prince is blending all those sounds and socio-political ideologies, it's right in the tradition of Sun Ra, Coltrane, Miles Davis, Earth, Wind, and Fire, Parlament/Funkadelic, and other African American artists. (Granted, people like Todd Rundgren, Frank Zappa, and a very few Beatles albums were hella experimental, but that ground had already been broken by the people I just listed.) So, when I hear Purple Rain, Around the World in a Day, and Parade, as well as everything before Purple Rain I hear a black man who is a scholar of musical history, especially the history of music created by African Americans. (Are you seriously gonna tell me that "Free" is not a gospel song? In fact, it's not just a gospel song, but it's more in the tradition of the Freedom Songs, which were church songs with lyrical changes to reflect a socio-political mission, that were sung during the apex of the Civil Rights Movement, which is another example of the depth of Prince's blackness.) It's just a shame that so many people can't connect the genius of Prince to the genius of blackness and the black community.

*

As for AoA sounding like some futuristic electro-pop funk, that's, again, the style of music created and/or inspired by black people. Techno, for the most part, is four on the floor disco, which is rooted in doubling up the one, which is rooted in black sound. Moreover, techno, to be specific, is birthed from the fascination of white DJs, keyboardists, and producers who are infatuated with funk and soul music. But, again, you use the terms "techno" and "electro-pop" as if they are these complete white creations that have nothing to do with black aesthetics, when they could not have existed without black genius. Thus, AoA is a R&B, techno-funk record with the normal Prince experimentation. And, by the way, that doesn't make it great, but it is better than HitnRun: Phase One, which is god-awful because Prince is clearly chasing what he thinks is the current sound.

*

Finally, when Prince said to compare him to guitarists, I have no problem doing that because it was black guitarists, Robert Johnson, B. B. King, Buddy Guy, Jimi Hendrix, and others who created the blueprint for what he was able to become. That does not mean that he was not inspired by white guitarists as well, but not acknowledging the black guitarist tradition in which Prince was clearly working is, again, tantamount to denying humanity to black people. (You do realize that all the great white guitarists, such as Clapton, Townsend, Beck, Richards, Harrison, and others were all trying to be like/imitate the black bluesmen they idolized?) Ultimately, when Prince is lying about his race it is because he knows well the manner in which the schizophrenia of white supremacists enables them to love black art while simultaneously hating black people. And, of course, his white managers affirm this when, in print, they state that white radio stations will not play him simply because he his black. And, this is affirmed more by the white journalists who are writing these articles. (These are all facts that I'm providing, and a Prince scholar like you knows that these are facts.) So, yes, Prince is a rocker. But, much like the African-American culture/tradition that birthed him, he is much more, and to deny of or remove him from that African-American tradition is to reinforce white supremacy by minimizing the contribution of African Americans to global history and civilization. So, to end, I'll just quote Parlament/Funkadelic, when they say: "Who says a jazz band can't play dance music?/ Who says a rock band can't play funk? Who says a funk band can't say rock?" And, it's a black band doing all of this...very well as black bands have always done because they invented the forms.

1725topp said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

If you listen through out his career, you'll hear those sounds since the 80s

.

Musicology -his James Brown jam: The Work, Sexy MF, Love or Money, Irresistable Bitch/Cloreen Bacon Skin

Walk In the Sand -listen to the piano sounds you'll hear that as far back as Hold Me(Sheila) your hear it on 1999 and Purple Rain tracks, Fathers Song, Do Me Baby. That is one reason I like it because it didn't have that hollow plastic sound a lot of his latter 90s and 2000s music had.

Reflections, Tangerine etc all sound like a lot of his early demo and 'accustic' pieces he's had on most of his albums

With 20Ten, he reached back and input some of that '1981 Tick Tick Bang-New Wave feel' and a watered down synth feel.

Planet Earth: ie Last December, the Cross, the Ladder, Purple Rain, Free

Somewhere Hear on Earth, is an easy song, that you hear throught his whole career in various degrees(feels like a nod to the Parade (Dream Factory)era) but also Revelation(2015)
Guitar -the rockabilly that Prince has always done -Let's Go Crazy

Resolution -feels like music from Prince Dirty Mind or Controversy(the guitar playing really reminds me of those periods) and feels folkier

.

.

Yeah it might have been, but R&B fans don't = Black fans. The people I see bumpin the hardest rap music are white. But overall, the albums continued a vibe Prince had in the 80s. Rock Funk Soul Folk + jazz classical etc The stuff seemed really easy for Prince to do in the 2000s
Rainbow Children is the one album that really felt 'inspired' and feels overall like 'Prince music' or his sound. Those are the songs I tend to like more, that feel like a genuine work of his sound. I want to know what the follow up Rainbow Children was going to sound like.

.
The other stuff sounds like him trying to emulate what he thinks he popular rnb rap or pop sounds.
and those 2001-2011 albums, which many are outtakes from other albums from the period. The name dropping was too much.

There is definately some great sounds/music throught the albums. But for me a lot of times the lyrical delivery doesn't match.
.
And AoA is like some futuristic electro pop funk

Prince told someone he never understood why people wanted to compare him to MJ, because he was a guitarist, he said compare me to other guitar shredders.

*

The problem with your response is that black people invented/created rock-n-roll, ie Little Richard and Chuck Berry on the backs of the blues men and women who birthed them. So, when Prince is creating "Guitar" in the vein of "Let's Go Crazy," he's working in the African-American music tradition, in the same way that Eddie Hazel and Ernie Isley were. (Rockabilly is just a white interpretation of swinging blues; that's basic music history and theory 101.) And, that's the problem with this discussion that far too many people have attempted to lessen the humanity of black (African American) people by lessening who they are by lessening what they have created.

*

Additionally, your comment that "R&B fans don't = Black fans" is convenient for your position but somewhat misleading if not disingenuous. (And, the only reason I don't want to say that your statement is disingenuous is because I don't believe it is your intention to lie or mislead.) So, while you "see white people bumping the hardest rap," are you going to say that white people invented rap or R&B and that the majority of black people don't support rap and R&B? Yes, it's difficult, almost impossible, for a R&B or rap song/album to become number one if a good number of whites don't purchase it. But, purchasing something and, even, co-opting it does not deny the history that it was created by black genius, such as rock-n-roll. And, the same is true of jazz, funk, soul, and blues. Yes, they have all been co-opted, embraced if you prefer, by whites, but they are all genres that come fundamentally from African-American tradition, or are we denying this factual history as well? As such, The Rainbow Children is a funk, jazz, soul fuse album that is undeniably black in musical aesthetic as well as being a spiritual Afrocentric mantra. It may be the "blackest" record Prince has ever created. And, when you think about the manner in which Prince is blending all those sounds and socio-political ideologies, it's right in the tradition of Sun Ra, Coltrane, Miles Davis, Earth, Wind, and Fire, Parlament/Funkadelic, and other African American artists. (Granted, people like Todd Rundgren, Frank Zappa, and a very few Beatles albums were hella experimental, but that ground had already been broken by the people I just listed.) So, when I hear Purple Rain, Around the World in a Day, and Parade, as well as everything before Purple Rain I hear a black man who is a scholar of musical history, especially the history of music created by African Americans. (Are you seriously gonna tell me that "Free" is not a gospel song? In fact, it's not just a gospel song, but it's more in the tradition of the Freedom Songs, which were church songs with lyrical changes to reflect a socio-political mission, that were sung during the apex of the Civil Rights Movement, which is another example of the depth of Prince's blackness.) It's just a shame that so many people can't connect the genius of Prince to the genius of blackness and the black community.

*

As for AoA sounding like some futuristic electro-pop funk, that's, again, the style of music created and/or inspired by black people. Techno, for the most part, is four on the floor disco, which is rooted in doubling up the one, which is rooted in black sound. Moreover, techno, to be specific, is birthed from the fascination of white DJs, keyboardists, and producers who are infatuated with funk and soul music. But, again, you use the terms "techno" and "electro-pop" as if they are these complete white creations that have nothing to do with black aesthetics, when they could not have existed without black genius. Thus, AoA is a R&B, techno-funk record with the normal Prince experimentation. And, by the way, that doesn't make it great, but it is better than HitnRun: Phase One, which is god-awful because Prince is clearly chasing what he thinks is the current sound.

*

Finally, when Prince said to compare him to guitarists, I have no problem doing that because it was black guitarists, Robert Johnson, B. B. King, Buddy Guy, Jimi Hendrix, and others who created the blueprint for what he was able to become. That does not mean that he was not inspired by white guitarists as well, but not acknowledging the black guitarist tradition in which Prince was clearly working is, again, tantamount to denying humanity to black people. (You do realize that all the great white guitarists, such as Clapton, Townsend, Beck, Richards, Harrison, and others were all trying to be like/imitate the black bluesmen they idolized?) Ultimately, when Prince is lying about his race it is because he knows well the manner in which the schizophrenia of white supremacists enables them to love black art while simultaneously hating black people. And, of course, his white managers affirm this when, in print, they state that white radio stations will not play him simply because he his black. And, this is affirmed more by the white journalists who are writing these articles. (These are all facts that I'm providing, and a Prince scholar like you knows that these are facts.) So, yes, Prince is a rocker. But, much like the African-American culture/tradition that birthed him, he is much more, and to deny of or remove him from that African-American tradition is to reinforce white supremacy by minimizing the contribution of African Americans to global history and civilization. So, to end, I'll just quote Parlament/Funkadelic, when they say: "Who says a jazz band can't play dance music?/ Who says a rock band can't play funk? Who says a funk band can't say rock?" And, it's a black band doing all of this...very well as black bands have always done because they invented the forms.

rdhull said:

Dear god.

1725topp said:

purplefam99 said:

1725topp said:

*

The problem with your response is that black people invented/created rock-n-roll, ie Little Richard and Chuck Berry on the backs of the blues men and women who birthed them. So, when Prince is creating "Guitar" in the vein of "Let's Go Crazy," he's working in the African-American music tradition, in the same way that Eddie Hazel and Ernie Isley were. (Rockabilly is just a white interpretation of swinging blues; that's basic music history and theory 101.) And, that's the problem with this discussion that far too many people have attempted to lessen the humanity of black (African American) people by lessening who they are by lessening what they have created.

*

Additionally, your comment that "R&B fans don't = Black fans" is convenient for your position but somewhat misleading if not disingenuous. (And, the only reason I don't want to say that your statement is disingenuous is because I don't believe it is your intention to lie or mislead.) So, while you "see white people bumping the hardest rap," are you going to say that white people invented rap or R&B and that the majority of black people don't support rap and R&B? Yes, it's difficult, almost impossible, for a R&B or rap song/album to become number one if a good number of whites don't purchase it. But, purchasing something and, even, co-opting it does not deny the history that it was created by black genius, such as rock-n-roll. And, the same is true of jazz, funk, soul, and blues. Yes, they have all been co-opted, embraced if you prefer, by whites, but they are all genres that come fundamentally from African-American tradition, or are we denying this factual history as well? As such, The Rainbow Children is a funk, jazz, soul fuse album that is undeniably black in musical aesthetic as well as being a spiritual Afrocentric mantra. It may be the "blackest" record Prince has ever created. And, when you think about the manner in which Prince is blending all those sounds and socio-political ideologies, it's right in the tradition of Sun Ra, Coltrane, Miles Davis, Earth, Wind, and Fire, Parlament/Funkadelic, and other African American artists. (Granted, people like Todd Rundgren, Frank Zappa, and a very few Beatles albums were hella experimental, but that ground had already been broken by the people I just listed.) So, when I hear Purple Rain, Around the World in a Day, and Parade, as well as everything before Purple Rain I hear a black man who is a scholar of musical history, especially the history of music created by African Americans. (Are you seriously gonna tell me that "Free" is not a gospel song? In fact, it's not just a gospel song, but it's more in the tradition of the Freedom Songs, which were church songs with lyrical changes to reflect a socio-political mission, that were sung during the apex of the Civil Rights Movement, which is another example of the depth of Prince's blackness.) It's just a shame that so many people can't connect the genius of Prince to the genius of blackness and the black community.

*

As for AoA sounding like some futuristic electro-pop funk, that's, again, the style of music created and/or inspired by black people. Techno, for the most part, is four on the floor disco, which is rooted in doubling up the one, which is rooted in black sound. Moreover, techno, to be specific, is birthed from the fascination of white DJs, keyboardists, and producers who are infatuated with funk and soul music. But, again, you use the terms "techno" and "electro-pop" as if they are these complete white creations that have nothing to do with black aesthetics, when they could not have existed without black genius. Thus, AoA is a R&B, techno-funk record with the normal Prince experimentation. And, by the way, that doesn't make it great, but it is better than HitnRun: Phase One, which is god-awful because Prince is clearly chasing what he thinks is the current sound.

*

Finally, when Prince said to compare him to guitarists, I have no problem doing that because it was black guitarists, Robert Johnson, B. B. King, Buddy Guy, Jimi Hendrix, and others who created the blueprint for what he was able to become. That does not mean that he was not inspired by white guitarists as well, but not acknowledging the black guitarist tradition in which Prince was clearly working is, again, tantamount to denying humanity to black people. (You do realize that all the great white guitarists, such as Clapton, Townsend, Beck, Richards, Harrison, and others were all trying to be like/imitate the black bluesmen they idolized?) Ultimately, when Prince is lying about his race it is because he knows well the manner in which the schizophrenia of white supremacists enables them to love black art while simultaneously hating black people. And, of course, his white managers affirm this when, in print, they state that white radio stations will not play him simply because he his black. And, this is affirmed more by the white journalists who are writing these articles. (These are all facts that I'm providing, and a Prince scholar like you knows that these are facts.) So, yes, Prince is a rocker. But, much like the African-American culture/tradition that birthed him, he is much more, and to deny of or remove him from that African-American tradition is to reinforce white supremacy by minimizing the contribution of African Americans to global history and civilization. So, to end, I'll just quote Parlament/Funkadelic, when they say: "Who says a jazz band can't play dance music?/ Who says a rock band can't play funk? Who says a funk band can't say rock?" And, it's a black band doing all of this...very well as black bands have always done because they invented the forms.

The truth ^^^and spoke with love. thx!

All this makes almost perfect sense, but "Purple Rain" is a musical alchemy (if not the when it comes to pop),
therefore not "especially".
Sorry, but all the album is tainted with white new-wave FM synths. The Kraftwerk/Eno effects on TBO,
The 16ths of IWD4U, the psychedelia of the cellos and the phasers and the flangers, it's music history alright,
except there's not much recognizable and easily identifiable as African American but the root, the core.
The flesh, the textures are very much european at Prince's intent.
He's the one going for it, and with a purpose. He deliberately chose to join the computer (the Linn's is the product of one white geek in his garage)
with the grind (metal is pretty white), over black kick drums and basses as pillars.

"tantamount to denying humanity to black people"
I'm sorry what? You're pushing it into strange territories.
So if Prince says he learned a lot from Santana, is he dooming himself
into this limbo of "non-humanity"? I think US black people are under much severe threats,
that deny them life, not hust humanity. I don't think there's an important fight to be won in culture.
Now that culture, whether black or white or asian, is turned into some entertainment commodity,
it's a story as old as "Pinocchio". The talented boy will always be the clown. That's the only space capitalism grants to artists.

"All great white guitarists"? Who made you the judge who is a great guitarist,
no matter his.her skin color? Why does anyone with talent have to be originated from Mother Africa,
from which all things must apparently proceed? A piano doesn't have to be made from ivory. Or ebony.
Thank God for the Dune-like hallucinogenic scales of the Eastern World, Asia and Oceania for their meditative drones.
No synths without their influence. No Oberheim, no LRC, no Prince.

One thing you do seem to omit from your historical exposé: It's no doubt the fifties and the sixties talented guitarists
were in awe of the Bluesmen. It's all over their bios. But one example : Chuck Berry and the bluesmen would have never been brought back to the stage
and enjoy a second career in the 60's/70's (spanning other careers, black and white) if it wasn't for white fans,
who fought until it seemed, for a very sort sixties summer, that race did not matter no more and we were all going to go Aquarius.
They've been the first ambassadors, they woke up Europe, they sold the primal beat to the world and the world bought it in mass,
the educated western kids went back to their history books and rewrote them,knowing very well it was black first ("the music of the devil", remember?).
But exploitation and consumerization of art is everywhere, in all disciplines. In all cultures.
Even sports: one of the biggest black sport stars looks like a sandwich man for white folks über-expensive luxury watches.
This does much more damage than Prince being bleached. It's the machine digesting the "elegant" savage.

All heritages get raped and stolen, in time. But what survives gives you pizza (Italy), hot dog (Germany), root beer (preColumbian countries), and pussy (universal, thank God).
It's all become a mix and match, and we ain't adjusted to it yet because capitalism still has us by the balls, black, red or Portorican.
Only a few centuries, it was war and death everywhere. There are too few generations to absorb the mental shift it requires,
coming from a world where an enemy is needed to motivate the country, and now goods circulating without any frontier except for international embargos.
The white supremacy cashes in, still commerce is more about mere products: people travel, experience other countries even if only for work.
Slowly but surely, you see faces and types you never saw when you were a child. The world moves, too slowly at times, like a maniac most of the time.
Even a whole life on foreign soil can't erase your roots. Maybe the second generation finds a middle ground. Maybe the third.
Germany has not turned into chaos. It is feasible. Supremacists are very rare breed when compared to the world. Money knows no color.

So maybe there's a critical situation in the US about critics whitewashing Prince,
which I'm not aware of, but I don't quite get how it is socially relevant (except for black people,
who need all the pride flags they need, I have no problem with that, in time, nothing's changed).
Again, he's the best Trojan Horse. Once he gets his way in someone's brain, the funk shall be within her.
I don't care if they start with pink. If they leave when it goes black, good riddance.

To deny people who are REALLY interested in Prince, the intelligence and the patience
to understand Prince's black roots IN TIME — not all the albums and certainly very few hits are socially relevant or declaratory.
Either people slide on the surface of Prince or don't. This essay cares about those who don't,
ignoring they will never be the ones holding the key. They just intoxicate masses who already are.
As it's been said above, who cares?

[Edited 11/25/18 11:29am]

bonatoc said:

purplefam99 said:

1725topp said: The truth ^^^and spoke with love. thx!

All this makes almost perfect sense, but "Purple Rain" is a musical alchemy (if not the when it comes to pop),
therefore not "especially".
Sorry, but all the album is tainted with white new-wave FM synths. The Kraftwerk/Eno effects on TBO,
The 16ths of IWD4U, the psychedelia of the cellos and the phasers and the flangers, it's music history alright,
except there's not much recognizable and easily identifiable as African American but the root, the core.
The flesh, the textures are very much european at Prince's intent.
He's the one going for it, and with a purpose. He deliberately chose to join the computer (the Linn's is the product of one white geek in his garage)
with the grind (metal is pretty white), over black kick drums and basses as pillars.

"tantamount to denying humanity to black people"
I'm sorry what? You're pushing it into strange territories.
So if Prince says he learned a lot from Santana, is he dooming himself
into this limbo of "non-humanity"? I think US black people are under much severe threats,
that deny them life, not hust humanity. I don't think there's an important fight to be won in culture.
Now that culture, whether black or white or asian, is turned into some entertainment commodity,
it's a story as old as "Pinocchio". The talented boy will always be the clown. That's the only space capitalism grants to artists.

"All great white guitarists"? Who made you the judge who is a great guitarist,
no matter his.her skin color? Why does anyone with talent have to be originated from Mother Africa,
from which all things must apparently proceed? A piano doesn't have to be made from ivory. Or ebony.
Thank God for the Dune-like hallucinogenic scales of the Eastern World, Asia and Oceania for their meditative drones.
No synths without their influence. No Oberheim, no LRC, no Prince.

One thing you do seem to omit from your historical exposé: It's no doubt the fifties and the sixties talented guitarists
were in awe of the Bluesmen. It's all over their bios. But one example : Chuck Berry and the bluesmen would have never been brought back to the stage
and enjoy a second career in the 60's/70's (spanning other careers, black and white) if it wasn't for white fans,
who fought until it seemed, for a very sort sixties summer, that race did not matter no more and we were all going to go Aquarius.
They've been the first ambassadors, they woke up Europe, they sold the primal beat to the world and the world bought it in mass,
the educated western kids went back to their history books and rewrote them,knowing very well it was black first ("the music of the devil", remember?).
But exploitation and consumerization of art is everywhere, in all disciplines. In all cultures.
Even sports: one of the biggest black sport stars looks like a sandwich man for white folks über-expensive luxury watches.
This does much more damage than Prince being bleached. It's the machine digesting the "elegant" savage.

All heritages get raped and stolen, in time. But what survives gives you pizza (Italy), hot dog (Germany), root beer (preColumbian countries), and pussy (universal, thank God).
It's all become a mix and match, and we ain't adjusted to it yet because capitalism still has us by the balls, black, red or Portorican.
Only a few centuries, it was war and death everywhere. There are too few generations to absorb the mental shift it requires,
coming from a world where an enemy is needed to motivate the country, and now goods circulating without any frontier except for international embargos.
The white supremacy cashes in, still commerce is more about mere products: people travel, experience other countries even if only for work.
Slowly but surely, you see faces and types you never saw when you were a child. The world moves, too slowly at times, like a maniac most of the time.
Even a whole life on foreign soil can't erase your roots. Maybe the second generation finds a middle ground. Maybe the third.
Germany has not turned into chaos. It is feasible. Supremacists are very rare breed when compared to the world. Money knows no color.

So maybe there's a critical situation in the US about critics whitewashing Prince,
which I'm not aware of, but I don't quite get how it is socially relevant (except for black people,
who need all the pride flags they need, I have no problem with that, in time, nothing's changed).
Again, he's the best Trojan Horse. Once he gets his way in someone's brain, the funk shall be within her.
I don't care if they start with pink. If they leave when it goes black, good riddance.

To deny people who are REALLY interested in Prince, the intelligence and the patience
to understand Prince's black roots IN TIME — not all the albums and certainly very few hits are socially relevant or declaratory.
Either people slide on the surface of Prince or don't. This essay cares about those who don't,
ignoring they will never be the ones holding the key. They just intoxicate masses who already are.
As it's been said above, who cares?

[Edited 11/25/18 11:29am]

*

Clearly, we are hearing something completely different when we hear Purple Rain, and it becomes meaningless for me simply to reiterate all that I've just said, ie "Let's Go Crazy" is Little Richard and Chuck Berry, "Erotic City" is Parliament/Funkadelic, "Take Me w/U" is Sly Stone meets Motown basic pop funk, "The Beautiful 1's" is any R&B/Soul tradition you want to name, " "Computer Blue" is punk rock fusion but the solo is purely rock with soul bottom, besides the nod to Screamin' Jay Hawkins, "Darlin' Nikki" is pure funk and soul, "When Doves Cry" is pure funk, have you heard "Eye Would Die 4 U" and "Baby, Eye'm a Star" live--clearly James Brown funk that most of us can hear on the record, and "Purple Rain" is the middle of the road power ballad created the way that Journey and all rock bands created it, pouring soulful (read gospel inspired) vocal runs and harmonies over wailing guitars with backbeat, both, again, products of black music. So, yes, Prince used strings and keyboards to add flavoring to the work, but the flavoring doesn't hide the history of African-American sounds. But, again, we agree to disagree.

*

I don't think there's an important fight to be won in culture. And, who made you the person to decide when, where, and how African peoples fight to be treated fairly and justly? While you certainly have the right to such a myopic and anti-historical position about the ability of art to impact socio-political reality, you should at least know that African peoples have always created utilitarian art. Furthermore, until the European Renaissance, all art was ritual/utilitarian art. As such, art does not become purely spectacle/commercial pop until it is completely removed from ritual or from serving some socio-political (ritual) purpose. So, again, your position that there isn't an important fight to be won in culture is, again, without much historical basis. Yes, tens of thousands of black folk changed their hair and their attitude toward "blackness" because of a James Brown song. That's only one of the hundreds of documented facts of the important fights to be won in culture. As for your point about Santana, I'm not sure if you are purposely being misleading about my position, but the issue is not that Prince is not influenced by non-African Americans. The issue is that so many white fans/scholars deny Prince's blackness and the great impact that the black tradition had in creating Prince. However, I do notice that with your Santana point you conveniently omitted that Santana never said that he played "rock" music. Santana always said that he played "Afro-Cuban" music. Check the research. Santana has always defined himself as an Afro-Cuban and blues musician, not as a rocker. So, again, you are whitewashing the roots of what helped Prince to become Prince. And while capitalism/mercantilism are at the root of this issue, we cannot deny that the history of capitalism/mercantilism are rooted in racial and national competition. So, when people say, "it's not a 'race' issue; it's a 'class' issue," they seem to forget that, throughout history, class is almost always based on some notion of race or ethnicity. Money may know no color, but the people who fetishize and worship money have long understood that race, ethnicity, and national identity are always connected to getting people's money. This is why the Pat Boone and Elvis Presley versions of songs outsold the Little Richard and Ray Charles versions of songs. More white people identified with Boone and Presley than Richard and Charles. I'm not saying that Boone or any other white artists performing a traditional/historical African-American form isn't well-crafted, but, as Aristotle stated, the beauty of the play is man's recognition of himself. Thus, more whites recognized themselves in Boone's and Presley's versions than Richard's and Charles' versions. And, this is even true of Tom Jones, whom I love, by the way.

*

For your third point, I have no idea what you are saying? Did you even read what I wrote? Also, I listed notable white guitarists--and I'd love for you to tell me which of the ones I listed are not great--to affirm that they surely had some impact on Prince as they had on the canon or history of guitar playing. But, those great white guitarists were all trying to be, trying to imitate black bluesmen. So, what, again, is your point other than insanity?

*

As for your fourth point, while Berry and others were "brought back to the stage for a second act of a career," you omit that during this same time (60s/70s), white DJs and white promoters were working to ensure that black acts were not played on white radio, making it difficult for black acts to make a living in the rock genre. Again, Prince's own managers stated in print that white radio stations would not play him simply because he was black. That's a fact. And, that did not happen just to Prince. Groups like Mother's Finest and later Fishbone were often denied airplay or heavy rotation just because they were black. So, while you are patting folks on the back for celebrating greatness, maybe tell the whole or entire story that the celebration of black greatness was short lived and was replaced by institutionalized gatekeeping. We don't even need to rehash the fact that MTV initially refused to play any black artists.

*

One type of exploitation or denial is not worse than another type of exploitation or denial. The cultural bleaching of any African person is wrong whether it is Prince, an athlete, or a janitor. As such, your theory about Prince being the "best Trojan Horse" African Americans have is very faulty if the white and mixed raced people who "love" Prince cannot accept that he is an African American. Then, again, your Trojan Horse theory falls flat on me because I don't think it helps African people for their primary strategy to obtain equal treatment to be begging or tricking white people to like them. That strategy only plays into or affirms the schizophrenia of white supremacy.

*

Finally, no one on this website has said anything about denying anyone of loving Prince. However, the question that some of us raise is why is it so painful for so many white and mixed people to accept that Prince was an African American? Now, if that is not painful or a problem to you, then why must you respond? So, when you end with "who cares?," obviously you care, like others, because you continue to respond. If it weren't that important, you wouldn't respond. Thus, the real question is why do you continue to care but deny that you do? Let me be clear. I think that it is important that African Americans work to correct two growing trends/falsehoods in regard to Prince. One, the lessening of the impact that his African American community and national African American artists had on Prince. Two, the attempt to present Prince as something other than African American. These two things are important to me because they are lies and because they function to negate another aspect of African-American genius and contribution to national and global civilization. The only people who have a problem with anything that I am saying are people who need, for whatever reason, for Prince to be something other than African American. Therefore, this issue, debate, or whatever it is can only really be engaged to some resolution when folks are willing to look themselves in the mirror and ask themselves why it bothers them for Prince to be an African American. Once those folks arrive at that answer, we can then have some really fruitful conversation. If you are not one of the people who is bothered by the notion of Prince being an African American or by Prince being a product of the African-American community and tradition while also being influenced by other forces, then none of this should matter to you.