I just rewatched some clips. The show did mention the piano and microphone tour and that he had two shows that night. That probably did imply enough context that the man was still functioning most of the time as a hardworking musician despite mood swings and bouts of drug-influenced tiredness.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

SkipperLove said:

Good point. Why interview someone from 2012? It gives the impression that Prince just spent the last 4 years of his life fading away. Context is missing a bit. in 2012, Prince was just finishing a very long and probably physically taxing concert tour. He might have been taking more pills than he was a few years later when the physical demands were less intense. I imagine his drug problem was a bit more off and on or varying in it's intensity and/or severity for the next four years. The people who need to be interviewed are the folks around him in the last year (or at least interviewed alongside people like her). Ironically or not so ironically, P was also in the middle of a tour when his problem reached fatal proportions.

Crystal was still close enough for insiders to call her and ask her to help them find rehab for P.

[Edited 9/29/18 17:01pm]

I get the sense he was fairly addicted from 2010 onwards. He worked so hard and gave so much but I don't think we should minimize heavy drug use. His assistant Crystal in 2010 finally quit, Crystal Blanchard (chef) was concerned and left as well. He was in terrible shape in 2013 onwards. There was an OD in 2011/ or so...I don't think these statements are out of context.

There was likely an OD in 1996 as well.

peggyon said:

I get the sense he was fairly addicted from 2010 onwards. He worked so hard and gave so much but I don't think we should minimize heavy drug use. His assistant Crystal in 2010 finally quit, Crystal Blanchard (chef) was concerned and left as well. He was in terrible shape in 2013 onwards. There was an OD in 2011/ or so...I don't think these statements are out of context.

There was likely an OD in 1996 as well.

Thanks for finding out about the Crystal's, Peggy. I agree with you on the rest too.

littlemissG said:

I wonder if there was any help for his underlying sources of pain; hips, hands, whatever. It’s unrealistic to think someone with significant physical pain will not take pain meds. I wonder if he needed both hips done but only had one because the first operation was less than successful. Repetitive motion injuries only heal when you stop doing the motion for weeks or months. Prince not play music that long seems unimaginable.

The autopsy reported a small scar on one hip, Therefore, he did not have both done.

SkipperLove said:

sonshine said:

Yes, i am very well aware of how chronic pain patients are managed. I've worked in a multi-specialty out-patient healthcare provider for 15+ years. I work with doctors who who manage chronic pain patients along as well as the whole array of acute illnesses and chronic diseases management. So i'm also up on the latest studies and recommendations re: the use of opioids. There is strong evidence that suggests using these drugs beyond a few days greatly increases the risk of addiction. There will be more and more pressure to curb the use of these medications. They are not suitable for "chronic pain". If you don't think someone who has been on these meds for 2 years is as much motivated by avoiding withdrawl as they are seeking pain control you don't know how these drugs work. I agree we wasted a lot of years on these drugs when the time would have been better spent finding safer ways to control pain.

Tsk, Tsk. I know how these drugs work. And I'm not saying opioids are the cure all. We need to find better treatment for pain.

And to those who have tried everything possible and still get no relief, what about them?

We have tried botox shots, he has had needles stuck in the front of his throat all the way to the back of his throat trying to get medicine in the nerves. They have tried burning his nerves, steroid shots. We have tried everything the pain management drs have suggested. Pain management said there is nothing more they can do.

I still find it disturbing that you state that people who take opioids long term don't want off of them because of the withdrawl. That's not true. They do stop working how ever and then there is no need to even be on them. Don't forget years ago, they were touted as a miracle drug and pushed heavily onto the patients.

Any good pain management Dr knows how to wean the patients off without the withdrawl symptoms. I know, my husband did it.

PennyPurple said:

...We have tried everything the pain management drs have suggested. Pain management said there is nothing more they can do...

Stay strong, Penny

I recall seeing in a documentary somewhere that people who try to kick their addictions every other kind of way (rehab, cold turkey, yoga, crystals, etc.) have no luck whatsover until they get into religion.

For example if I recall correctly Larry Graham had a pretty major coke addiction back in the day, which he was only able to kick after becoming a devout Jehovah's Witness.

Has a possible connection between Prince's pain pill addition and his dedication to religion ever been discussed here?

steakfinger said:

Bassette said:

steakfinger said:

The autopsy reported a small scar on one hip, Therefore, he did not have both done.

The small scar on his hip might have had another cause. Perhaps he had a marrow-punction (usually from the hipbone) the only way to diagnose leukemia.

It was because he had hip surgery....

peggyon said:

purplemist7777 said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

ph4tphuk said:

Well, I don't see a man who was lethargic or lacking energy on stage. I only saw some signs (behavior wise) in Montreux 2013. He got tired towards the end of one show and wasn't dancing as much, but he still was a ball of energy and on point musically. Most 57 year old men in that much pain will struggle a little. But, I didn't see signs of tiredness until the end of the third show. Many of his 2014 performances are out there on youtube, I personally would have never guessed that that man was a drug addict in that year. He was on fire. He even dances in those. His Piano and Microphone tour was full of energy and musical wizardy. He even jumped up to the top of his piano. But he also looked frail and often favored one side. To be honest, he looked sick but he didn't look loopy or lethargic. I am not saying he didn't have a drug dependence. But I am saying that the tail end of a big concert that lasted nearly two years (Welcome to America 2010-2012) might have exasperated his usage. I am saying that he was somewhat high functioning despite the problem. He wasn't wallowing in PP alone and doped out of his mind for the entirety of the last 4 years of his life. I am not saying that you are saying that. But, I was concerned that might be the impression the 20/20 gave because they left an employee who left in 2012 as the final word on his downward spiral. Rarely is a personal narrative that clean cut, it usually comes with peaks and valleys, getting a bit better and getting a bit worse again. Yes, I am aware of the 96 overdose but even Michael Bland who knew prince back then couldn't believe that he was hard user for 20 years..he said no one is that prolific and takes hard opiods for 20 years. I suspect that his drug dependence was either somewhat controlled (with spikes in usages when tours grinded on too long or a pain set in worse) or off and on again for most of the time he experienced it. The last year was when it seemed to become a constant, but had he not gotten a hold of fentanyl, he might have functioned with the dependence for years until his liver gave out or he eventually just had to quite completely.

peggyon said:

I get the sense he was fairly addicted from 2010 onwards. He worked so hard and gave so much but I don't think we should minimize heavy drug use. His assistant Crystal in 2010 finally quit, Crystal Blanchard (chef) was concerned and left as well. He was in terrible shape in 2013 onwards. There was an OD in 2011/ or so...I don't think these statements are out of context.

There was likely an OD in 1996 as well.

PennyPurple said:

Its not two people. I thought so. She is just saying the same thing she said before. Crystal might be talking about the next assistant who was warned by her that Prince would want pain pill doctors. Prince died of his addiction so the assumption might be that her statements were ignored. But Prince also wasn't going to doctors anymore which made me think that maybe some folks were trying to cut him off so he chose another route..all he needed was one person to agree to it. I actually don't think it was Kirk. But it could have been Meron, or Phaedra or that night watchman who the investigators didn't look into. I also think it is possible that P compartmentalized his drug use just as much as he compartmentalized most things. He might have kept people confused by doing this. Dealers in California that his wife was concerned about, black market pills, getting friends to agree to pick up pills for him under their name, doctors who agreed to prescribe what he requested.. All of this might have made it hard for folks to fully ascertain the extent of his usage. But whatever it was, he was a surprisingly high functioning addict who had legit pain so I do kind of doubt he did it just to get high or escape his life. I think he did it to keep at his bigger addiction--music and performing and to deal with stress and anxiety.. I also think he intentionly took his worse pills on the night of his death. Its interesting after listening to Michael Bland's interview, I think maybe the camp is completely divided on this. Bland thinks Prince did it on accident, but Barbarello stated that "since when did Prince make mistakes?" which seems like he thinks it was intentional. Susan Rogers seems to think Prince just gave up. Lisa coleman seems to think the same (she said she suspects that Prince was going through a great deal of emotional pain at the end of his life.) Still others think it was an accident facilitated by enablers.

ChocolateBox3121 said:

purplemist7777 said:

On FB There is a Crystal Blanchette who married Christian Zehetner around 2010 so I think it is the same person. Just used her maiden name for the tv interview

I already verified in a earlier post she was the same person.

I thought I read somewhere that P was starting to have trouble with his other hip but was too busy with his tour to get to it right away. That being said, I believe Judith when she said his focus was on his hands. They were what he was using the most so therefore what he was most concerned with. Dr Shulbarg's appointment seemed to focus on the tingling and numbness in his extremity, but like I said that was what he was using the most and when he talked to Shulbarg, prince wasn't completely drug free so therefore the hip might not have been feeling too awfully bad due to the drugs in his system. In other words, the arthritis in his hands was worse and more of a problem than his other hip had become yet..I suspect.'

laytonian said:

PennyPurple said:

It was because he had hip surgery....

...and the autopsy did NOT say SMALL scar. Why do people make shit up? Scar on left hip and also on lower right leg.

I can see this as well. I think he had a bit of a system. It doesnt mean he could not make mistakes but I don't think it is as willy-nilly as the investigators and many folks believe. I think its important to bear in mind that investigators will rarely call something a suicide unless they can absolutely prove it beyond a doubt and they need Prince as their poster boy for their campaign against drug dealers who sell mislabeled pills on purpose without the buyers knowing. If Prince knew or suspected the strength of his pills, and intentionally took them, the investigation into finding the source, probably wouldn't have a reason to exist. I think they are much less interested in finding a bit of justice for Prince or revealing the truth than they are in finding out who the big fish are..regardless of what Prince knew or didn't know. They also know the family and associates wouldn't want them to just state that suicide was the cause. It was still an extremely shoddy investigation with a lot of leads just ignored.

purplefam99 said:

ph4tphuk said:

Most nights, I go right to sleep as soon as my head hits the pillow. But occasionally I have trouble staying asleep all night. So I have both Nytol and hayfever pills on opposite sides of my night stand. Depending on what time I wake up during the night — two hours before or four hours before I have to get up for work — I'll reach for one or the other depending on what strength I think I want. The hay fever pills and the Nytol are both in the category of OTC medications called "Antihistamines". The former having a lower strength than the latter.

My "left side/hayfever pills — right side/Nytol" system works very well for me. I wake up, it's dark, I don't want to turn on the lights because that would make me even more awake. I've trained myself to reach for the appropriate side of the night stand pretty much on the instinct that comes from a long-term self-medication habit.

Sometimes, though, as I'm fumbling around in the dark to pop one or two of either pill out of their respective blister packs, sometimes I'm all butter fingers and a pill goes flying and lands heaven knows where. On the floor? In between the folds of my blanket? Or, most often, into a tiny black hole — where a lot of socks, sunglasses, hand tools and whatnot seem to go — never ever to be seen again.

That's why it's not hard for me to imagine that a super-organized person dependent on counterfeit opioid pain killers might have a similar system for the different levels of opioid pain relief they might need under different conditions.

One system I could imagine might work to categorize different counterfeit opioid pill strengths, is an alphabetical system. For example, "A" for heavy duty relief; "B" for mild-to-middling relief and "C" for light relief. But how could I separate them into an inconspicuous but also super convenient, easily-memorized way? Well, I know mnemonics help me to remember stuff. So I might put the "A" pills in an Advil container. I might put the "B" pills in a Bayer container. And I might put the "C" pills in a vitamin C container. Or some such.

But that's just me ;¬)

I can see this viewpoint of ABC

SkipperLove said:

I thought I read somewhere that P was starting to have trouble with his other hip but was too busy with his tour to get to it right away. That being said, I believe Judith when she said his focus was on his hands. They were what he was using the most so therefore what he was most concerned with. Dr Shulbarg's appointment seemed to focus on the tingling and numbness in his extremity, but like I said that was what he was using the most and when he talked to Shulbarg, prince wasn't completely drug free so therefore the hip might not have been feeling too awfully bad due to the drugs in his system. In other words, the arthritis in his hands was worse and more of a problem than his other hip had become yet..I suspect.'

laytonian said:

PennyPurple said: ...and the autopsy did NOT say SMALL scar. Why do people make shit up? Scar on left hip and also on lower right leg.

There was no definitive diagnosis of arthritic hands. When Judith asked him to stop taking the pills, he said he had to take the pills as his hands hurt from heavy piano playing. Personally, I think it may have been a way to keep taking the pills in front of her.Rest, ice, elevation and anti-inflammatory agents,ie., Advil, are a more effective way to start to treat that kind of pain. ..maybe an occas mild opiate.

The other leg pain he was talking about was likely sciatica,(tingling/numbness) which seemed to spontaneously resolve.

I did not say he lacked enery, there are signs he was addicted. Please read the reports from Crystal re: his post-op disorientation at Paisley Park in 2010, (this was related to Percocet),the hushed-up OD in 2011, reports from others re: erratic behavior, significant weight loss etc, his drastic change in appearance from 2013 onward.

He likely took non-opiates(stimulants) as well, which augmented his energy. (Vitamin B shots given before many shows were likely more than vit B).

SkipperLove said:

Well, I don't see a man who was lethargic or lacking energy on stage. I only saw some signs (behavior wise) in Montreux 2013. He got tired towards the end of one show and wasn't dancing as much, but he still was a ball of energy and on point musically. Most 57 year old men in that much pain will struggle a little. But, I didn't see signs of tiredness until the end of the third show. Many of his 2014 performances are out there on youtube, I personally would have never guessed that that man was a drug addict in that year. He was on fire. He even dances in those. His Piano and Microphone tour was full of energy and musical wizardy. He even jumped up to the top of his piano. But he also looked frail and often favored one side. To be honest, he looked sick but he didn't look loopy or lethargic. I am not saying he didn't have a drug dependence. But I am saying that the tail end of a big concert that lasted nearly two years (Welcome to America 2010-2012) might have exasperated his usage. I am saying that he was somewhat high functioning despite the problem. He wasn't wallowing in PP alone and doped out of his mind for the entirety of the last 4 years of his life. I am not saying that you are saying that. But, I was concerned that might be the impression the 20/20 gave because they left an employee who left in 2012 as the final word on his downward spiral. Rarely is a personal narrative that clean cut, it usually comes with peaks and valleys, getting a bit better and getting a bit worse again. Yes, I am aware of the 96 overdose but even Michael Bland who knew prince back then couldn't believe that he was hard user for 20 years..he said no one is that prolific and takes hard opiods for 20 years. I suspect that his drug dependence was either somewhat controlled (with spikes in usages when tours grinded on too long or a pain set in worse) or off and on again for most of the time he experienced it. The last year was when it seemed to become a constant, but had he not gotten a hold of fentanyl, he might have functioned with the dependence for years until his liver gave out or he eventually just had to quite completely.

peggyon said:

I get the sense he was fairly addicted from 2010 onwards. He worked so hard and gave so much but I don't think we should minimize heavy drug use. His assistant Crystal in 2010 finally quit, Crystal Blanchard (chef) was concerned and left as well. He was in terrible shape in 2013 onwards. There was an OD in 2011/ or so...I don't think these statements are out of context.

There was likely an OD in 1996 as well.

[Edited 9/30/18 21:46pm]

We weren't privy to all his appointments. There is an email he sent to Kirk in which he stated that "it" popped out of place. But then he emailed back and stated that it might have popped back into place. Not sure what he was talking about. But it sounded physical and it sounded painful.

He might have been making excuses to keep using..possibly. But his constant work ethic had to have taken a toll and I am not sure why people can't see that unless they aren't paying attention to how much he was working. An isolated problem might only warrant ice and an aleve. But I don't assume he had an isolated issue. I assume many parts of his body had pain but the ones he wanted and needed to work the best got the most attention. I refuse to just chuck all his issues up to emotional disturbance and some kind of long term mourning over his son and his marriage failing. That might have been a factor, but I don't think it was the only one.

peggyon said:

SkipperLove said:

I thought I read somewhere that P was starting to have trouble with his other hip but was too busy with his tour to get to it right away. That being said, I believe Judith when she said his focus was on his hands. They were what he was using the most so therefore what he was most concerned with. Dr Shulbarg's appointment seemed to focus on the tingling and numbness in his extremity, but like I said that was what he was using the most and when he talked to Shulbarg, prince wasn't completely drug free so therefore the hip might not have been feeling too awfully bad due to the drugs in his system. In other words, the arthritis in his hands was worse and more of a problem than his other hip had become yet..I suspect.'

There was no definitive diagnosis of arthritic hands. When Judith asked him to stop taking the pills, he said he had to take the pills as his hands hurt from heavy piano playing. Personally, I think it may have been a way to keep taking the pills in front of her.Rest, ice, elevation and anti-inflammatory agents,ie., Advil, are a more effective way to start to treat that kind of pain. ..maybe an occas mild opiate.

The other leg pain he was talking about was likely sciatica,(tingling/numbness) which seemed to spontaneously resolve.

I read all that. I still think you are over-simplifying to fill a narrative. He had a drug dependence/addiction. No one is saying otherwise. I am saying that it had its ups and downs and that physical pain would exasperate it. With a dependence comes tolerance. With tolerance comes less relief for pain, therefore the need for more drugs..that is, until you take a break and hopefully the need for pills lessens a bit.. there are probably degrees of addiction and I imagine they lessen and strengthen depending on circumstances in one's life. How do you account for this brain not being fried. You just implied that prince was on both opiods and possibly cocaine (stimulants). The man had mood swings but his brain wasn't mush. He often seemed in professional control even if his personal life was erratic.

peggyon said:

I did not say he lacked enery, there are signs he was addicted. Please read the reports from Crystal re: his post-op disorientation at Paisley Park in 2010, (this was related to Percocet),the hushed-up OD in 2011, reports from others re: erratic behavior, significant weight loss etc, his drastic change in appearance from 2013 onward.

He likely took non-opiates(stimulants) as well, which augmented his energy. (Vitamin B shots given before many shows were likely more than vit B).

SkipperLove said:

Well, I don't see a man who was lethargic or lacking energy on stage. I only saw some signs (behavior wise) in Montreux 2013. He got tired towards the end of one show and wasn't dancing as much, but he still was a ball of energy and on point musically. Most 57 year old men in that much pain will struggle a little. But, I didn't see signs of tiredness until the end of the third show. Many of his 2014 performances are out there on youtube, I personally would have never guessed that that man was a drug addict in that year. He was on fire. He even dances in those. His Piano and Microphone tour was full of energy and musical wizardy. He even jumped up to the top of his piano. But he also looked frail and often favored one side. To be honest, he looked sick but he didn't look loopy or lethargic. I am not saying he didn't have a drug dependence. But I am saying that the tail end of a big concert that lasted nearly two years (Welcome to America 2010-2012) might have exasperated his usage. I am saying that he was somewhat high functioning despite the problem. He wasn't wallowing in PP alone and doped out of his mind for the entirety of the last 4 years of his life. I am not saying that you are saying that. But, I was concerned that might be the impression the 20/20 gave because they left an employee who left in 2012 as the final word on his downward spiral. Rarely is a personal narrative that clean cut, it usually comes with peaks and valleys, getting a bit better and getting a bit worse again. Yes, I am aware of the 96 overdose but even Michael Bland who knew prince back then couldn't believe that he was hard user for 20 years..he said no one is that prolific and takes hard opiods for 20 years. I suspect that his drug dependence was either somewhat controlled (with spikes in usages when tours grinded on too long or a pain set in worse) or off and on again for most of the time he experienced it. The last year was when it seemed to become a constant, but had he not gotten a hold of fentanyl, he might have functioned with the dependence for years until his liver gave out or he eventually just had to quite completely.

[Edited 9/30/18 21:46pm]

[Edited 9/30/18 22:04pm]

[Edited 9/30/18 22:09pm]

SkipperLove said:

I read all that. I still think you are over-simplifying to fill a narrative. He had a drug dependence/addiction. No one is saying otherwise. I am saying that it had its ups and downs and that physical pain would exasperate it. With a dependence comes tolerance. With tolerance comes less relief for pain, therefore the need for more drugs..that is, until you take a break and hopefully the need for pills lessens a bit.. there are probably degrees of addiction and I imagine they lessen and strengthen depending on circumstances in one's life. How do you account for this brain not being fried. You just implied that prince was on both opiods and possibly cocaine (stimulants). The man had mood swings but his brain wasn't mush. He often seemed in professional control even if his personal life was erratic.

peggyon said:

I did not say he lacked enery, there are signs he was addicted. Please read the reports from Crystal re: his post-op disorientation at Paisley Park in 2010, (this was related to Percocet),the hushed-up OD in 2011, reports from others re: erratic behavior, significant weight loss etc, his drastic change in appearance from 2013 onward.

He likely took non-opiates(stimulants) as well, which augmented his energy. (Vitamin B shots given before many shows were likely more than vit B).

Many addicts conceal their addictions very well; they continue to work, parent etc. and their brains are not mush. He likely' titrated 'his use. I get the sense he knew his body well (most of the time).

[Edited 9/30/18 21:46pm]

[Edited 9/30/18 22:04pm]

[Edited 9/30/18 22:09pm]

I did not chuck up all of his issues to an emotional disturbance or mourning for his son.

To me, there is no stigma with drug use. I don't know his reasoning at all nor do I judge him, I just see overwhelming evidence of lengthy drug use, that's all. Perhaps it waxed and waned periodically, but not for long post 2010.(IMO)

Not sure if you have read the investigative reports, but this is where I have found most of my information and it seems factual to me.

SkipperLove said:

We weren't privy to all his appointments. There is an email he sent to Kirk in which he stated that "it" popped out of place. But then he emailed back and stated that it might have popped back into place. Not sure what he was talking about. But it sounded physical and it sounded painful.

He might have been making excuses to keep using..possibly. But his constant work ethic had to have taken a toll and I am not sure why people can't see that unless they aren't paying attention to how much he was working. An isolated problem might only warrant ice and an aleve. But I don't assume he had an isolated issue. I assume many parts of his body had pain but the ones he wanted and needed to work the best got the most attention. I refuse to just chuck all his issues up to emotional disturbance and some kind of long term mourning over his son and his marriage failing. That might have been a factor, but I don't think it was the only one.

peggyon said:

There was no definitive diagnosis of arthritic hands. When Judith asked him to stop taking the pills, he said he had to take the pills as his hands hurt from heavy piano playing. Personally, I think it may have been a way to keep taking the pills in front of her.Rest, ice, elevation and anti-inflammatory agents,ie., Advil, are a more effective way to start to treat that kind of pain. ..maybe an occas mild opiate.

The other leg pain he was talking about was likely sciatica,(tingling/numbness) which seemed to spontaneously resolve.

laytonian said:

PennyPurple said:

It was because he had hip surgery....

...and the autopsy did NOT say SMALL scar. Why do people make shit up? Scar on left hip and also on lower right leg.

I'm pretty sure it described the size of the scar. I don't make shit up. I may misremember something, but if it didn't mention a size at all I wouldn't have invented a size. Ass. There was all manner of speculation about what type of surgery it was because it seemed too small for a full on hip replacement. Ass part II

[Edited 10/1/18 8:27am]

peggyon said:

Just tossing in here that opiates are capable of both sedating and energizing effects. One discussion of this: https://www.researchgate....ome_humans

rednblue said:

Just tossing in here that opiates are capable of both sedating and energizing effects. One discussion of this: https://www.researchgate....ome_humans

thx for the link. reading...

and we know he was a hugh fan of 5hr energy. i have never taken those, anyone know what

it would equate to in coffee? are its effects not as jittery as coffee? i wonder if he took one

or two of those things. he did seem to not lack energy in shows.