thenewposition said:

endiadj said:

What is this thread?

This thread is me learning that Terrance Trent D'arby still has fans. And somehow, those fans have the audacity to compare him to Prince

He was certainly in that league, certaiinly, as an artist. listening to SOD and Vibrator, they were better than what Prince and MJ were putting out, way, way better in a lot of depts. The person who called his neglect by the record company as "criminal" was absolutely right.

rdhull said:

Has anyone ACTUALLY seen him live in concert besides me?

Yup. In Cologne. Late 80's early 90's I guess

Edit: 10 November 1993, E-Werk, Cologne, Germany.



.

[Edited 9/24/18 3:58am]

I saw Sananda here in Genova, some years ago.

[Edited 9/24/18 3:48am]

PeteSilas said:

thenewposition said:

This thread is me learning that Terrance Trent D'arby still has fans. And somehow, those fans have the audacity to compare him to Prince

He was certainly in that league, certaiinly, as an artist. listening to SOD and Vibrator, they were better than what Prince and MJ were putting out, way, way better in a lot of depts. The person who called his neglect by the record company as "criminal" was absolutely right.

Exactly that!
TTD's output in the 90's was much better then some of the ear-sore P gave us in that period.

BartVanHemelen said:

Sananda published a lot of interesting tracks in this indie years. Some are composed now, other are from late '90 in my opinion. Some are gems, like this:

.

.

He made also some happy & sad, funny tracks:

.

.

There are also some solid rock tracks:

.

.

And oblivious some Pirates songs...

.

.

Often he played all the instruments. I think The Sphinx is the best of that era.

Pretty soon his entire catalog will be posted here. Yet no one will be blown away.

To back in topic: I think Sananda & Prince are very different. Different style of life, different genius, different way to handle art and "success". I think also different way to handle pain and joy.

.

The only moment I feel could be a "Sananda" inspiration in Prince music is the "Y Should I Do That When I Can Do This" chorus.

rdhull said:

Has anyone ACTUALLY seen him live in concert besides me?

July 11th 1995 Vibrator tour, Alter Wartesaal in cologne.

It's a very small venue, and it was one of the hottest days of the year. The concert was fantastic.


I also saw Mavis Staples perform there, promoting the prince produced album "The voice". I guess it was the same year (95), when the album was re-released.
https://www.discogs.com/Mavis-Staples-The-Voice/release/833206

[Edited 9/24/18 10:54am]

probably more afraid of TTD than D'angelo

onlyforaminute said:

Pretty soon his entire catalog will be posted here. Yet no one will be blown away.

no one can please everyone, last week i was talking to a guy about the beatles, he dismissed them as overrated, then I mentioned Prince and he stated how in awe he was of his guitar playing, I then pointed out that many people will say his guitar playing was overrated just like he said the beatles were and that it was all subjective. TTD was a helluva package, I don't know who's choice the production and the beats were on some of those epic 90's tracks but they were fucking mindblowing, even after I've heard them a million times. Been playing his stuff for two weeks now. Artists have certain periods where they are just On like nobodies business, where brilliance just spills out and around them, for elvis, it was 54-58, for the beatles it was 64-70, for prince it was the mid 80's, terence was having his moment of that and nobody paid attention. That has to hurt the man immensely, it was clear how much love and work he put into that stuff and he had to know he was better than most of the people in the business who were outselling him, that can drive a man away to a place like Europe. Maybe mars if he could manage it.

PeteSilas said:

onlyforaminute said:

Pretty soon his entire catalog will be posted here. Yet no one will be blown away.

no one can please everyone, last week i was talking to a guy about the beatles, he dismissed them as overrated, then I mentioned Prince and he stated how in awe he was of his guitar playing, I then pointed out that many people will say his guitar playing was overrated just like he said the beatles were and that it was all subjective. TTD was a helluva package, I don't know who's choice the production and the beats were on some of those epic 90's tracks but they were fucking mindblowing, even after I've heard them a million times. Been playing his stuff for two weeks now. Artists have certain periods where they are just On like nobodies business, where brilliance just spills out and around them, for elvis, it was 54-58, for the beatles it was 64-70, for prince it was the mid 80's, terence was having his moment of that and nobody paid attention. That has to hurt the man immensely, it was clear how much love and work he put into that stuff and he had to know he was better than most of the people in the business who were outselling him, that can drive a man away to a place like Europe. Maybe mars if he could manage it.

Just expressing my opinion.

I have zero negative things to say or opinions about TTD and his art. I just fail to see any real connection to the person I truly am interested in. They met a couple of times. That's nice.

yah, i don't have a problem with it.

onlyforaminute said:

PeteSilas said:

no one can please everyone, last week i was talking to a guy about the beatles, he dismissed them as overrated, then I mentioned Prince and he stated how in awe he was of his guitar playing, I then pointed out that many people will say his guitar playing was overrated just like he said the beatles were and that it was all subjective. TTD was a helluva package, I don't know who's choice the production and the beats were on some of those epic 90's tracks but they were fucking mindblowing, even after I've heard them a million times. Been playing his stuff for two weeks now. Artists have certain periods where they are just On like nobodies business, where brilliance just spills out and around them, for elvis, it was 54-58, for the beatles it was 64-70, for prince it was the mid 80's, terence was having his moment of that and nobody paid attention. That has to hurt the man immensely, it was clear how much love and work he put into that stuff and he had to know he was better than most of the people in the business who were outselling him, that can drive a man away to a place like Europe. Maybe mars if he could manage it.

Just expressing my opinion.

I have zero negative things to say or opinions about TTD and his art. I just fail to see any real connection to the person I truly am interested in. They met a couple of times. That's nice.

TTD/SM was not a part of Prince's associated artists, that's for sure, although he did work with one of Prince's musical buddies, Wendy Melvoin. I admit my enthusiasm for each of their output.

>

TTD/SM and Prince were kindred spirits in their love for music and their desire to produce it. The 2 admired some of the same musicians, also. I think it's cool to appreciate both, who would write some nice tunes in the same contemporary era. Prince's constitution to deliver was overwhelmingly superior to TTD/SM in his lifetime--as such, and for more of Prince's qualities, Sananda Maitreya today remains an ardent admirer of "His Royal Badness."

>

For me, no matter how little can be said by us specifically about any meeting between the two, their artistic presence has fueled my desire to check out what the other guy would be doing and compare their output.

onlyforaminute said:

Just expressing my opinion.

I have zero negative things to say or opinions about TTD and his art. I just fail to see any real connection to the person I truly am interested in. They met a couple of times. That's nice.

Germanegro said:

Ay, I don't think it's so unhealthy a thread for the "Prince: Music and More" forum!

Where else are people going to better enjoy hearing about how much so-and-so entertainer was inspired by Prince, while getting a taste in part of what the man inspired?

>

Here's one media source for an interview on at least 1 meetup 'tween them, that I think was quoted here earlier, posted again to reiterate the joyful moment. I don't think it means that Prince feared TTD at all.

https://www.newstatesman....s-forehead.

onlyforaminute said:

The exact same thing can be said about so many other artists. Why not make a thread for each one in the Prince: Music and More section? Every single one Prince had a passing conversation with, shook hands with, came to PP once, etc, In a 38 year career I think we could rack up a lot threads about them all, and compare how Prince was afraid of them all in some oddball way like posting to a lot of their YouTube vids. Cause there definitely isn't a section where fans can express their appreciation for other artist in these parts.

I just fail to see any real connection to the person I truly am interested in. They met a couple of times

Well, they recorded together:

"We did a record together in the early Nineties but fell out because of a dispute over my use of an eleventh chord. The last time he reached out to me, well after I had relocated to Milano, I brushed him off. I was annoyed about some lame shit at the time and didn’t want him getting into my head with any of his hypnotic logic."

fabriziovenerandi said:

Germanegro said:

hypnotic language? Prince? haha, that's him. that's the pretentious pot calling the pretentious kettle black. at any rate, ttd wrote to me some ten years ago and told me not to copy him just as he copied some of his heroes who he fell out with, and then said "fuck em" he didn't mention any names, prince had to be one.

onlyforaminute said:

fabriziovenerandi said:

Well, they recorded together:

"We did a record together in the early Nineties but fell out because of a dispute over my use of an eleventh chord. The last time he reached out to me, well after I had relocated to Milano, I brushed him off. I was annoyed about some lame shit at the time and didn’t want him getting into my head with any of his hypnotic logic."

So who owns the tapes?

his reply to Prince when being berated for not getting his telepathic message ws priceless. what's more, i always thought the enquierer's story about Prince believing in telepathy was bullshit, maybe it wasn't after all.

Germanegro said:

Ay, I don't think it's so unhealthy a thread for the "Prince: Music and More" forum!

Where else are people going to better enjoy hearing about how much so-and-so entertainer was inspired by Prince, while getting a taste in part of what the man inspired?

>

Here's one media source for an interview on at least 1 meetup 'tween them, that I think was quoted here earlier, posted again to reiterate the joyful moment. I don't think it means that Prince feared TTD at all.

https://www.newstatesman....s-forehead.

onlyforaminute said:

The exact same thing can be said about so many other artists. Why not make a thread for each one in the Prince: Music and More section? Every single one Prince had a passing conversation with, shook hands with, came to PP once, etc, In a 38 year career I think we could rack up a lot threads about them all, and compare how Prince was afraid of them all in some oddball way like posting to a lot of their YouTube vids. Cause there definitely isn't a section where fans can express their appreciation for other artist in these parts.

PeteSilas said:

onlyforaminute said:

Pretty soon his entire catalog will be posted here. Yet no one will be blown away.

no one can please everyone, last week i was talking to a guy about the beatles, he dismissed them as overrated, then I mentioned Prince and he stated how in awe he was of his guitar playing, I then pointed out that many people will say his guitar playing was overrated just like he said the beatles were and that it was all subjective. TTD was a helluva package, I don't know who's choice the production and the beats were on some of those epic 90's tracks but they were fucking mindblowing, even after I've heard them a million times. Been playing his stuff for two weeks now. Artists have certain periods where they are just On like nobodies business, where brilliance just spills out and around them, for elvis, it was 54-58, for the beatles it was 64-70, for prince it was the mid 80's, terence was having his moment of that and nobody paid attention. That has to hurt the man immensely, it was clear how much love and work he put into that stuff and he had to know he was better than most of the people in the business who were outselling him, that can drive a man away to a place like Europe. Maybe mars if he could manage it.

The problem TTD had was after his debut album went large he started calling himself a genius and self proclaiming greatness. The media took an instant dislike to this, took aim and fired. Basically, TTD ruined it for himself and then came out with an album that didn't have the commercial viability as Introducing the Hardline... He dropped like a stone. Then he grew up and realised he had fucked things up. His 3rd album is absolutely brilliant but despite his attempts to change his public image, he just couldn't gain the traction he used to enjoy. After a few more years of trying, and with a couple of great albums to boot, he finally cut himself off from the mainstream and changed his name. If there is anything we as Prince fans know, name changes do not neccesarily make for future chart success.

Incidently, there is a "thank you" to Prince in the liner notes of Symphony or Damn.

PeteSilas said:

was it the media or the miscalculation of the avante garde second album or the public's distaste? Hard to say, I never thought his mouth helped him, never. As for the media, he got good reviews so far as I know of, of course i didn't read each and every one but he was getting some airplay and some interviews at the time of NFNF, he was on the cover of spin, rather than RS for NFNF but the article was positive. the public has to be the biggest factor as it always is, you can have the greatest album ever, hell some of the greatest music ever is obscure, it doesn't diminish it in my mind one bit. The public has to go for it and for whatever reason, they didn't. I'm sure it can't always be the record companie's fault, each and every one of the major black stars, MJ, Pince and TTd not to mention GM blamed lack of company support, from our side of things we can't see whether that's true or not. It's not like their videos didn't get seen, not like they weren't on magazine covers, unfortunately, sometimes the public just ain't interested. I really don't know what to make of it in TTD's case, SOD had brilliant reviews, he got on major late night shows and it still flopped in the US. It's one of the greatest albums i've ever heard quite frankly so I don't get it. timing? MJ telling sony to fuck his career up? Fuck if I know.

JonnyBoyRebel said:

PeteSilas said:

no one can please everyone, last week i was talking to a guy about the beatles, he dismissed them as overrated, then I mentioned Prince and he stated how in awe he was of his guitar playing, I then pointed out that many people will say his guitar playing was overrated just like he said the beatles were and that it was all subjective. TTD was a helluva package, I don't know who's choice the production and the beats were on some of those epic 90's tracks but they were fucking mindblowing, even after I've heard them a million times. Been playing his stuff for two weeks now. Artists have certain periods where they are just On like nobodies business, where brilliance just spills out and around them, for elvis, it was 54-58, for the beatles it was 64-70, for prince it was the mid 80's, terence was having his moment of that and nobody paid attention. That has to hurt the man immensely, it was clear how much love and work he put into that stuff and he had to know he was better than most of the people in the business who were outselling him, that can drive a man away to a place like Europe. Maybe mars if he could manage it.

The problem TTD had was after his debut album went large he started calling himself a genius and self proclaiming greatness. The media took an instant dislike to this, took aim and fired. Basically, TTD ruined it for himself and then came out with an album that didn't have the commercial viability as Introducing the Hardline... He dropped like a stone. Then he grew up and realised he had fucked things up. His 3rd album is absolutely brilliant but despite his attempts to change his public image, he just couldn't gain the traction he used to enjoy. After a few more years of trying, and with a couple of great albums to boot, he finally cut himself off from the mainstream and changed his name. If there is anything we as Prince fans know, name changes do not neccesarily make for future chart success.

Incidently, there is a "thank you" to Prince in the liner notes of Symphony or Damn.

I'd blame it on his audience gathering tactics. TTD started in Europe first, instead of USA. For his brand of music, the R&B of the first album, he really should've concentrated on gaining ground support with Black audiences in America first. That takes more than one album in my opinion. That fan base is the key to longevity.

If you want to crossover you need a support system first. It was interesting though, he got big over in the UK and popular for a hot minute here, but the second album needed to build on that momentum not deconstruct it as Fish/Flesh did.

Anyways, I really like the first 3 records, and about 3 songs each from Vibrator and Wildcard!

well he did follow in the steps of Hendrix (not that it was intentional) the english and europeans have always seen black americans as a novelty, hell, even in america, in my small town, one of my musicial buddies is a black guy playing rock guitar, you wouldn't think that all these years later the same dynamic would be at play but it is, he's like a novelty for the local scene (some ways good, some ways bad, I've warned him about how that can fuck up your head, having people who you know would have nothing to do with you without your talent are screaming for you) but Terence was a bit more traditional music wise than alot of the black artists, which is kinda hard to say because he got into the rock mold of Hendrix and Prince as well, even though he wasn't a great instrumentalist, I'm positive it was his intent and vision to do the rock music. But.., at the time of the Hardline, he wasn't really that rock heavy yet so I could see the novelty thing giving him his first kick over in england. Hendrix really wasn't popular with black people in his lifetime, in fact, when he came back to his old HS here in Seattle, word is, most of the kids didn't even know who he was, didn't like his music and booed him and this was after he was a star. I guess your point is true, most of those black artists do better with an established base, even Prince had black fans first, I don't know what the demographics were but I'd assume most of the buyers of Prince, the second album, were black. Hendrix tried to go back to black but neither he, nor prince really were, freaks never are easy to slip into one category. Prince had way more traditional black influence in his music and his voice and stagecraft than hendrix did, hendrix had the blues but a lot of the freaky shit and his own wierdness were not from his black roots, that was just him. Most of jimis' fans were white. I don't know if Jimi was ever widely accepted by blacks, certainly not like Sly was in his time.

TheGloved1 said:

For his brand of music, the R&B of the first album, he really should've concentrated on gaining ground support with Black audiences in America first. That takes more than one album in my opinion. That fan base is the key to longevity.

.

I don't really agree. Both TTD and D'Angelo started with an R&B album, which did establish them, but they are, in retrospect, fairly humdrum albums and not indicative of the kind of talent they are.

.

I think the notion that his mouth did him a disservice is correct. I think he pissed off enough people at his label and in the media that it was an uphill struggle from then on. So even though he delivered on what he was talking about with his second album (the first interesting album) it just didn't perform well and started the whole story of his complete fall from grace. D'Angelo, who did something similar with his second album, was a much more affable person and so he became R&B's saviour to many.. possibly also because of his album being a mix of much more established types of music.

.

Lenny Kravitz (more of a TTD contemporary) interestingly did the opposite.. he started without compromises and after that tried to fit into whatever record company niche was most comfortable to him. He tried soul/R&B for a minute, but apparently felt more comfortable in rocker mode.

.

Prince, who preceded all of them, did much the same as TTD and D'Angelo with a non-challenging record (well, two, in his case) before moving into his own. He was more in touch with the zeitgeist than TTD, but a bit less than D'Angelo. He had a much greater drive to become a superstar though than any of them.

.

It's interesting (to me) that the influence of the record companies tends to be kept out of the myths/stories that get created around the stars. Personally, I really appreciate the lifting of the veil that slowly is being done for Prince after he died. I hoped for years that he would be able to mature into it himself, but unfortunately that never happened. I hope that his jam session with TTD gets released (or leaked) at some point, although I doubt it's interesting. I've never seen Prince perform well with other big pop egos.

.

I don't think Prince was ever intimidated by TTD's output or performance or act though. I think he saw him as one of his children, or acts that came up in part because of him.

fabriziovenerandi said:

I just fail to see any real connection to the person I truly am interested in. They met a couple of times

Well, they recorded together:

"We did a record together in the early Nineties but fell out because of a dispute over my use of an eleventh chord. The last time he reached out to me, well after I had relocated to Milano, I brushed him off. I was annoyed about some lame shit at the time and didn’t want him getting into my head with any of his hypnotic logic."

for real!!!! good for TTD/SM sometimes it is best to go the long way round.

TheGloved1 said:

I'd blame it on his audience gathering tactics. TTD started in Europe first, instead of USA. For his brand of music, the R&B of the first album, he really should've concentrated on gaining ground support with Black audiences in America first. That takes more than one album in my opinion. That fan base is the key to longevity.

If you want to crossover you need a support system first. It was interesting though, he got big over in the UK and popular for a hot minute here, but the second album needed to build on that momentum not deconstruct it as Fish/Flesh did.

Anyways, I really like the first 3 records, and about 3 songs each from Vibrator and Wildcard!

that is interesting as a teen seeing him for the first time i thought for sure he wasnt American, his

whole presentation said european to me. i think this may have confused the mainstream

amerian RNB crowd. for the time TTD, was a sophisticated hippie, natural and organic and shone bright without flash. i loved it/him. it didnt mean i didn't love prince too but it was a welcome

pallate refresher for sure. i enjoyed him and the Brand New Heavies and Soul II Soul/caron Wheeler.

[Edited 9/25/18 10:17am]