I think was. TTD was really banging in the 80s, doing similar music. They knew each other but you never saw them together. Prince never jammed with him. Like MJ Prince was afraid to be seen with him. MJ was another issue because M was such a nutter.

In essense TTD is the new Prince and always will be.

I recall that T once told a story on a.m.p about TTD visiting PP after a concert in Minneapolis for a jam, which ended with Prince mocking TTD and playing circles around him.

If he saw him as another "mainstream crossover male black superstar" rival (and I maintain that the Prince/MJ rivalry was for the most part a media fabricated myth), he probably didn't for long: TTD's major superstar lasted for about 2 years, then by 1989 he was already on his way down.

No. TTD idolized Prince as he stated in many later interviews...

TTD did visit Paisley... Also they were all together MJ and TTD and Prince at the 1988 Grammy Awards.

You can even hear during the performance of TTD a fan scream something during his performance about Prince, not quite sure exactly what they said but the video is on youtube.

TTD talked about Prince and MJ during his Arsenio Hall interview, but as Databank said, his second album flopped, and by 1990 he was out of the "mainstream."

feeluupp said:

No. TTD idolized Prince as he stated in many later interviews...

TTD did visit Paisley... Also they were all together MJ and TTD and Prince at the 1988 Grammy Awards.

You can even hear during the performance of TTD a fan scream something during his performance about Prince, not quite sure exactly what they said but the video is on youtube.

TTD talked about Prince and MJ during his Arsenio Hall interview, but as Databank said, his second album flopped, and by 1990 he was out of the "mainstream."

Although no longer at superstar level in 1993 with Symphony Or Damn, he was definitely back in the mainstream.

TTD recently said that P reached out to him around 2009/10 (iirc), but T didn't respond because of his own issues (I paraphrase).

2freaky4church1 said:

leecaldon said:

feeluupp said:

No. TTD idolized Prince as he stated in many later interviews...

TTD did visit Paisley... Also they were all together MJ and TTD and Prince at the 1988 Grammy Awards.

You can even hear during the performance of TTD a fan scream something during his performance about Prince, not quite sure exactly what they said but the video is on youtube.

TTD talked about Prince and MJ during his Arsenio Hall interview, but as Databank said, his second album flopped, and by 1990 he was out of the "mainstream."

Although no longer at superstar level in 1993 with Symphony Or Damn, he was definitely back in the mainstream.

I disagree... He was not in the mainstream at all during that time... Maybe only for promotion, as he appeared on Arsenio Hall that was about it. The album was a complete flop, it peaked at #119 in the U.S.

The week after Prince's passing this article showed up, I'm sure it was posted here on the org as well. He sums up his relationship with Prince.

https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/music-theatre/2016/04/terence-trent-d-arby-prince-i-planted-nice-wet-kiss-right-his-forehead

That headline is a wind up surely! Only in Paula Yates eyes was TTD a threat!

Just when I think we've achieved peak dumb on the org...

TTD was the best at being an original prince influenced artist...has nothing to worry

Terence's biggest problem is thinking that he can do it all like Prince - play all the instruments, produce, write...

He has written some great songs - but he's nowhere near Prince's level as a musician.

He's a better vocalist, though. A truly astounding voice.

Something that Sananda mentioned in his touching comments on the passing of our beloved Prince (Sananda referred to him as "the Master") was that they had collaborated, but ended up falling out over a chord choice or something like that It makes sense, musically TTD / SM seems to like quite atonal "wrong" sounds, I could never imagine it gelling with Prince's control freakery. That said, I would fucking LOVE to hear anything they worked on together.

Personally I've been a big fan of TTD / SM since his first appeared in the 80s. At the time, the album Introducing the Hardline and the singles off that record, I think it is fair to say that everyone in the music business was paying attention. Here was a handsome young guy with an incredibly unique vocal talent, and who seemed eccentric and funny. I loved Neither Fish Nor Flesh, Symphony or Damn, Vibrator, Wildcard, Angels and Vampires - all relaly excellent records. The rest are a bit patchier and bloated but he'll still surprise you with the occasional masterpiece.

Wouldn't it be cool if he toured as TTD again, performing the hits with a decent bunch of players? It's such a shame to see him playing with such shitty bands these days.

ian said:

Wouldn't it be cool if he toured as TTD again, performing the hits with a decent bunch of players? It's such a shame to see him playing with such shitty bands these days.

In the last two albums there are some songs that IMHO are from '90 and they are beautiful.

Terrence Trent who? One hit wonder. He actually said Hardline was better than Sgt. Pepper. I wonder what drug was he smoking. End of story

feeluupp said:

leecaldon said:

Although no longer at superstar level in 1993 with Symphony Or Damn, he was definitely back in the mainstream.

I disagree... He was not in the mainstream at all during that time... Maybe only for promotion, as he appeared on Arsenio Hall that was about it. The album was a complete flop, it peaked at #119 in the U.S.

In the UK, the album reached #4 and spent 19 weeks in the chart (going Gold in the process), and had 4 Top 20 singles.

She Kissed Me reached #5 on the US Rock charts, and was nominated for Best Breakthrough Video at the 1993 MTV Video Music Awards.

He had 4 appearances of Top of the Pops (the UK's top music show), he appeared on Jay Leno as well as Arsenio, supported Bruce Springsteen and Duran Duran on dates across the US (along with headline dates of his own) and toured Europe and Japan (including major venues like Brixton Academy and Budokann).

James Masterton, known for his weekly chart analysis over the decades, said this the week Delicate entered the charts,

"No. 19: NEW ENTRY. Terence Trent D'Arby featuring Des'ree - Delicate

His pubic profile has never been higher after appearing naked on the front cover of Q magazine..."

I'd say he was still a mainstream act at this point.

CatB said:

The week after Prince's passing this article showed up, I'm sure it was posted here on the org as well. He sums up his relationship with Prince.

https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/music-theatre/2016/04/terence-trent-d-arby-prince-i-planted-nice-wet-kiss-right-his-forehead

Sananada write so very well..

Love this quote:

He was, when he wanted to be, insanely funny in the way that Zen masters

can be when they let their garters down.

He could both read minds and place thoughts, like the ancient eastern yogis.

And if you were full of shit,

you would be very uncomfortable around him

TTD plays piano, guitar, sings. He has skills. Don't forget Boys 2 Men and SWV are also in the history books. TTD keeps putting out new, astounding music. You know tough I am on culture.

Genesia, are we breaking up? lol

Shortly after the release (in the US) of his first album, he was quoted as saying he was going to be bigger than Prince. I rolled my eyes and chuckled. TTD- see what happens when you mess around with the fates?

leecaldon said:

feeluupp said:

I disagree... He was not in the mainstream at all during that time... Maybe only for promotion, as he appeared on Arsenio Hall that was about it. The album was a complete flop, it peaked at #119 in the U.S.

In the UK, the album reached #4 and spent 19 weeks in the chart (going Gold in the process), and had 4 Top 20 singles.

She Kissed Me reached #5 on the US Rock charts, and was nominated for Best Breakthrough Video at the 1993 MTV Video Music Awards.

He had 4 appearances of Top of the Pops (the UK's top music show), he appeared on Jay Leno as well as Arsenio, supported Bruce Springsteen and Duran Duran on dates across the US (along with headline dates of his own) and toured Europe and Japan (including major venues like Brixton Academy and Budokann).

James Masterton, known for his weekly chart analysis over the decades, said this the week Delicate entered the charts,

"No. 19: NEW ENTRY. Terence Trent D'Arby featuring Des'ree - Delicate

His pubic profile has never been higher after appearing naked on the front cover of Q magazine..."

I'd say he was still a mainstream act at this point.

Mainstream maybe in London... But deff not in the U.S.

Prince was on a lot of shows and interviews in 98 to promote NPS... But he was not mainstream at all at that point...

By 1993 the music scene shifted so much with gangsta rap, grundge, house music... TTD was not a household name anymore, music wise or publicity wise in the U.S. #119 his album peaked... He was far from mainstream here in USA at that time.

BTW apart of the definition of mainstream is:

the dominant trend in opinion, fashion, or the arts.

He was far from the DOMINANT trend in anything in 1993. Looks like he had some semi success in london and across europe but you can't call him MAINSTREAM... He was far far from being mainstream in 1993.

From 1992 - 1993 Prince was still selling millions and millions and millions worldwide with the Love Symbol album, the hits 1, the hits 2, the b-sides... From 92-93 he sold over 7 million albums world wide, yet his music wasn't MAINSTREAM during that time... Yes he was everywhere in the media due to the name change but not the music.

In 1993 TTD album wasn't even certified GOLD... So how he was mainstream or a "trend" really baffles me.

TTD peak was from 87-88... Introducing The Hardline... sold over 10 million world wide... That is MAINSTREAM, that is the dominant TREND in music, as proved by the sales...

But with the commercial flop of his second album, the general public already moved on.

Dont get me wrong big fan of his music and albums, but to label him mainstream in 1993 is a huge overstatement.

A perfect example of MAINSTREAM in 1993 was Whitney Houston, the soundtrack to The Bodyguard was the biggest selling album of the year. TTD was nowhere on the radar in 1993.

If TTD was mainstream in 1993 then what was Nirvana at that time? Or Snoop Dogg? Or Mariah Carey? Or Liz Phair... Sorry TTD was not mainstream in 1993. At all.

[Edited 9/10/18 15:54pm]

feeluupp said:

leecaldon said:

Although no longer at superstar level in 1993 with Symphony Or Damn, he was definitely back in the mainstream.

I disagree... He was not in the mainstream at all during that time... Maybe only for promotion, as he appeared on Arsenio Hall that was about it. The album was a complete flop, it peaked at #119 in the U.S.

It was quite popular in Europe. He had four top 20 hits in the UK and the album peaked at #4 in the UK.
Here in germany it was also selling well. A lot of people I knew talked about it, and the singles got a lot of airplay.

I don't think Prince was afraid of anyone except maybe the Time. The rumor was that MJ sabotaged TTD with the record business. Prince was TTD's hero and so was MJ so that had to hurt. I did hear they worked together once and they fell out over what chords to use or something and that TTD picked up a guitar and couldn't play on P's level, P stared at him until he put it down. TTD was a fine artist and the best male singer of the time all on his own. He wasn't a great musician but he still came along ways on piano which isn't easy as an adult, believe me, i started playing seriously when i was 22 and everything is a struggle so he gets props from me. Is he as good as P on Piano? hell no, neither am I.

anyway, if anyone wants, we just had a thread on ttd over on the other artists forum, probably not a lot anyone can say that doesn't cover what we did already.

PeteSilas said:

I don't think Prince was afraid of anyone except maybe the Time. The rumor was that MJ sabotaged TTD with the record business. Prince was TTD's hero and so was MJ so that had to hurt. I did hear they worked together once and they fell out over what chords to use or something and that TTD picked up a guitar and couldn't play on P's level, P stared at him until he put it down. TTD was a fine artist and the best male singer of the time all on his own. He wasn't a great musician but he still came along ways on piano which isn't easy as an adult, believe me, i started playing seriously when i was 22 and everything is a struggle so he gets props from me. Is he as good as P on Piano? hell no, neither am I.

Alas, the only person who sabotaged TTD was himself from what I understand. He had a second album written (very strong material from what I've heard), demo-ed and all ready to be properly recorded, but scrapped it and spent a year in Ireland coming up with Neither Fish Nor Flesh. It has some good tracks, but is somewhat unfocused and it's not surprising that it didn't resonate with the general public.

Jamzone333 said:

2freaky4church1 said:

I think was. TTD was really banging in the 80s, doing similar music. They knew each other but you never saw them together. Prince never jammed with him. Like MJ Prince was afraid to be seen with him. MJ was another issue because M was such a nutter.

In essense TTD is the new Prince and always will be.

Prince didn’t have ANYTHING to worry about! TTD just didn’t have the chomps to stick around!

Chops had nothing to do with it. TTD's music was too weird for the mainstream. He was less concerned about commercial success than Prince and I think it showed.

BartVanHemelen said:

I recall that T once told a story on a.m.p about TTD visiting PP after a concert in Minneapolis for a jam, which ended with Prince mocking TTD and playing circles around him.

True story. It happened on 1/12/92. Prince did a surprise show at Glam Slam on 1/11/92 and there was an afterparty at Paisley Park. I remember walking into the kitchen in the atrium and seeing TTD sitting at a table eating. It started off as a DJ party and ended up with a jam in Studio C. TTD picked up one of P's guitars and started noodling around and quickly set it back down and walked back into the small crowd.

steakfinger said:

Jamzone333 said:

2freaky4church1 said: Prince didn’t have ANYTHING to worry about! TTD just didn’t have the chomps to stick around!

Chops had nothing to do with it. TTD's music was too weird for the mainstream. He was less concerned about commercial success than Prince and I think it showed.

That only applies to some of his second album.

Prince wasn't exactly a musical stranger to "weird". Purple Rain's hardly the most straightforward accessible album on face value, with a lead single that has no bass. He was particularly adept with marrying quirkiness with good old fashioned pop song values throughout much of his career.