bonatoc said:

leadline said:

We will see right? Ultimately it would be hard to audit, but the fact that it is a niche market for this release, it seems hopes for sales trumps desire for profits in this case, which really is odd and I cannot fathom the thought process behind it. If I were in charge I would be releasing material that caters to the widest audience, and as fast as I could, because the interest will wane down as the years go on.

Peace

Really not sure about that. Critics are slowly but steadily realizing they missed a good decade of creativity in the nineties, and Prince is one of the very few acts of the eighties that you can still listen to without cringing. Whatever the sound, the songs structures, the interpretations are just too good, Prince is already set in stone, and that means he's going to be passed on to the next generation as someone of strong cultural relevance (a kick-ass musician and performer).

He's going to stand the test of time. The only thing is, we are not in the same situation as with Elvis Presley or Bob Marley: it's not going to translate in millions of sales.

The interest of the masses matters little, they're not the main target here. "Real music lovers" is a niche, but it's a solid one. Pity recorded music is nowadays considered as something cheap. The only solution for the industry to milk their back catalogs would be a globally closed and monitored internet, where no illegal copy would go unnoticed, but hopefully we'll never get there.

I think Prince is the poster child for the long tail, and one of the rare cases where it actually works: once you're hooked, you have a whole world to discover ("and to buy", shouted an Estate rep from the back of the room). But this world is made of unreleased works, that's the maverick/underground nature of Prince, it's his DNA. Now if the people in charge are too slow to act, they can't blame newcomers for sailing torrents like pirates.

I always come back to Dylan's Bootleg Series as the example to follow. But it's called "The Work" (or "iVault", or "Homemade Deluxe"), and we got it years ago. But let's not mix ourselves up with the young, fresh ears that just await to be stunned by Prince's undisputable creativity. The sad state of pop might just be an advantage here.

[Edited 9/6/18 11:55am]

Some good points, but the 'sad state of pop' is only going to get sadder imo. The love of the music, the craft, and the instrument has been replaced by corporate creations who have no choice but to do the bidding of their masters. Because of the corporate control system, the willingness of these so called artists to sell their soul for a dollar, and a public that feeds off of, emulates, propogates and sustains the garbage music of today, it will be a miracle if this sad state can ever be tuned around.

Of course some good music is still being made by people nobody ever really heard of, but those folks will never get the big break, nor should they really want to in todays environment.

Erin Bode is one of these aritists, her band and released music were fabulous. I would be shocked if anyone on the street you mention this name to has ever heard of her. Just one example of many that the masses will never hear, because they are too busy being controlled and manipulated by the current industry, too busy being distracted by their cell phones and garbage TV.

This is why I fear the demand for a true artist such as Prince will simply wane with time, we are getting niche releases now, but in 5-10 years, Prince will be a niche artist, and every release will be for this niche group. The hope of keeping any real music alive left when Prince did. He was a warrior in this respect, constantly showing all of us what real music is, what real musicianship is. Forever mentoring selected artists of today to carry this musical torch ahead, some will, but these few are drowning in the musical sea of garbage, their voices and messages are simply just not able to be heard in a way to effect change.

It may seem like a rather pessimistic view, I hope something changes to prove this wrong, and I hope there is some catalyst that none of us can even imagine at this point that changes things.

With that being said, I will remain hopeful for positive changes, I always hope for the best, but at the same time I cannot ignore the current landscape of music and the corporate landscape that is shaping and controlling todays music and participants in it.

[Edited 9/9/18 0:59am]

-Eye records sells pretty much only to hardcore fans who want pressed releases, this is a market that the estate are already capturing with releases like Piano and Microphone 1983.

-There is plenty of unreleased material that the estate has acess to that would appeal to a broader mass audience. Who here wouldnt buy the Detroit 1986 Birthday show film mastered for blue spec or 4K, especially if it was the full show? and how many 80`s artists could release three albums of prime vintage 80s studio material without even touching the surface?

-If the Estate is concerned with diluting the marketplace or wrecking Prince`s brand, they should focus on those lower quality boots that are available on streaming services like Itunes and Tidal internationally. Going after Eye or Sab is a waste of energy in this respect (though arguably less of a waste of energy than Prince expended going after ordinary Prince fans and the free labels back in 2014)

-One thing we can all agree on I`m sure is that Prince`s brand and reputation are not going to be enhanced by more ugly litigation.

-The one thing the article in the Star Tribune did in my opinion was let casual fans know that they can buy Prince`s last show on CD (and from Eye!). This is an own goal.

[Edited 9/9/18 2:21am]

[Edited 9/9/18 2:23am]

Transformed1 said:

Kares said:

.
Don't be ridiculous. The estate holds the rights to the recordings, while bootleggers don't.

I didn't make a claim towards any side. I understand the legal position. All I'm pointing out is that some people could look at it from the perspective that no one involved really created nor "deserves" to profit from his music since they did not contribute. Some might say that the bootleggers are no different than the estate, just oportunists.

.

Your statements are ridiculous. No, you can't seriously look at it from that perspective because that is not how it works. I personally own recordings I didn't contribute to musically, I've just put them out on my label. I worked a lot on them, bearing all the costs. If you're trying to tell me I don't deserve to profit from it I'll say you're delusional.
.

Rights are being sold, transferred, inherited all the time. Whoever owns the rights to something will profit from them, period. Stop trying to justify the illegal activities of bootleggers.
If Prince had a child who would've inherited his publishing and his sound recordings, would you still say that "some might say his son/daugher doesn't deserve to profit from his music"?

.

leadline said:

bonatoc said:

Really not sure about that. Critics are slowly but steadily realizing they missed a good decade of creativity in the nineties, and Prince is one of the very few acts of the eighties that you can still listen to without cringing. Whatever the sound, the songs structures, the interpretations are just too good, Prince is already set in stone, and that means he's going to be passed on to the next generation as someone of strong cultural relevance (a kick-ass musician and performer).

He's going to stand the test of time. The only thing is, we are not in the same situation as with Elvis Presley or Bob Marley: it's not going to translate in millions of sales.

The interest of the masses matters little, they're not the main target here. "Real music lovers" is a niche, but it's a solid one. Pity recorded music is nowadays considered as something cheap. The only solution for the industry to milk their back catalogs would be a globally closed and monitored internet, where no illegal copy would go unnoticed, but hopefully we'll never get there.

I think Prince is the poster child for the long tail, and one of the rare cases where it actually works: once you're hooked, you have a whole world to discover ("and to buy", shouted an Estate rep from the back of the room). But this world is made of unreleased works, that's the maverick/underground nature of Prince, it's his DNA. Now if the people in charge are too slow to act, they can't blame newcomers for sailing torrents like pirates.

I always come back to Dylan's Bootleg Series as the example to follow. But it's called "The Work" (or "iVault", or "Homemade Deluxe"), and we got it years ago. But let's not mix ourselves up with the young, fresh ears that just await to be stunned by Prince's undisputable creativity. The sad state of pop might just be an advantage here.

[Edited 9/6/18 11:55am]

Some good points, but the 'sad state of pop' is only going to get sadder imo. The love of the music, the craft, and the instrument has been replaced by corporate creations who have no choice but to do the bidding of their masters. Because of the corporate control system, the willingness of these so called artists to sell their soul for a dollar, and a public that feeds off of, emulates, propogates and sustains the garbage music of today, it will be a miracle if this sad state can ever be tuned around.

Of course some good music is still being made by people nobody ever really heard of, but those folks will never get the big break, nor should they really want to in todays environment.

Erin Bode is one of these aritists, her band and released music were fabulous. I would be shocked if anyone on the street you mention this name to has ever heard of her. Just one example of many that the masses will never hear, because they are too busy being controlled and manipulated by the current industry, too busy being distracted by their cell phones and garbage TV.

This is why I fear the demand for a true artist such as Prince will simply wane with time, we are getting niche releases now, but in 5-10 years, Prince will be a niche artist, and every release will be for this niche group. The hope of keeping any real music alive left when Prince did. He was a warrior in this respect, constantly showing all of us what real music is, what real musicianship is. Forever mentoring selected artists of today to carry this musical torch ahead, some will, but these few are drowning in the musical sea of garbage, their voices and messages are simply just not able to be heard in a way to effect change.

It may seem like a rather pessimistic view, I hope something changes to prove this wrong, and I hope there is some catalyst that none of us can even imagine at this point that changes things.

With that being said, I will remain hopeful for positive changes, I always hope for the best, but at the same time I cannot ignore the current landscape of music and the corporate landscape that is shaping and controlling todays music and participants in it.

[Edited 9/9/18 0:59am]

While it's true that majors and big labels do not invest much on talents development by comparison to 40 years ago, it is also true that, thanks to the drop of recording process costs and the internet, more records are being released than ever before. IDK what the future holds but there was a critic who recently said that when he was young in the 80's or 90's, you'd meet another music afficionado and you'd ask each other do you know this or that (about up and coming artists) and they would usually know the artists mentioned by the other, while know when he meets someone they can drop names and names and names and no one will know the other's acts because there are too many acts and few get a real, strong exposure. In the end I find it hard to speak of a "sad state of pop music" because there are loads and loads of new artists I love, and I think for those who care to look for music it's really awesome everything that's out there. Business is bad, music ain't profitable no more, majors and and mainstream media suck. OK. But the music is there.

andrewm7 said:

-The one thing the article in the Star Tribune did in my opinion was let casual fans know that they can buy Prince`s last show on CD (and from Eye!). This is an own goal.[/color]

This is a great point. In late '87/early '88, it was reports from Rolling Stone, MTV and my own local newspaper that hipped me to the fact that bootleg copies of the cancelled Black Album were available on the underground market. This led me to go on the hunt for it, sparking a hobby that resulted in me collecting over 100 physical boots over the next decade and literally thousands of digital boots in the 2 decades that followed that. A whole new aspect of Prince collecting that I was completely oblivious to was opened up to me thanks to journalism. Thanks reporters!!

OperatingThetan said:

djThunderfunk said:

Piet Van Ryckeghem did a 4 page article when P died. Worked with per nilsen, went to 79 live shows 10 in Paisley Park. Gave prince parties, he even spoke with Prince once.

These EYE guys are hardcore fans

NorthC said:

Yet they're not above making money off other hardcore Prince fans by selling overpriced CD sets...

Yeah, sounds like one of those passion turns into a very bad ideas things. I want bootlegs, but how can I get them? Maybe the idea was to let other people pay for there tickets, airplane, hotel, recording material & buy other people bootlegs ...

so in the end a double edged sword, there might have been less bootlegs around without eye. And come on, you can get every EYE release in FLAC format for free ...

djThunderfunk said:

andrewm7 said:

-The one thing the article in the Star Tribune did in my opinion was let casual fans know that they can buy Prince`s last show on CD (and from Eye!). This is an own goal.[/color]

This is a great point. In late '87/early '88, it was reports from Rolling Stone, MTV and my own local newspaper that hipped me to the fact that bootleg copies of the cancelled Black Album were available on the underground market. This led me to go on the hunt for it, sparking a hobby that resulted in me collecting over 100 physical boots over the next decade and literally thousands of digital boots in the 2 decades that followed that. A whole new aspect of Prince collecting that I was completely oblivious to was opened up to me thanks to journalism. Thanks reporters!!

.

TBA got reviewed in Smash Hits, IIRC. A pop magazine aimed at teens reviewed a frikking bootleg.

djThunderfunk said:

This is what happens when you openly sell bootlegs. I'm surprised it hasn't happened sooner.

.

You were under a rock?

Never heard of websheriff or somesuch employed by Prince/PP/NPG/etc?

JamesDeslan said:

Piet Van Ryckeghem did a 4 page article when P died. Worked with per nilsen, went to 79 live shows 10 in Paisley Park. Gave prince parties, he even spoke with Prince once.

These EYE guys are hardcore fans

.

Just 79?

BartVanHemelen said:

djThunderfunk said:

This is a great point. In late '87/early '88, it was reports from Rolling Stone, MTV and my own local newspaper that hipped me to the fact that bootleg copies of the cancelled Black Album were available on the underground market. This led me to go on the hunt for it, sparking a hobby that resulted in me collecting over 100 physical boots over the next decade and literally thousands of digital boots in the 2 decades that followed that. A whole new aspect of Prince collecting that I was completely oblivious to was opened up to me thanks to journalism. Thanks reporters!!

.

TBA got reviewed in Smash Hits, IIRC. A pop magazine aimed at teens reviewed a frikking bootleg.

Rolling Stone reviewed it too.

udo said:

djThunderfunk said:

This is what happens when you openly sell bootlegs. I'm surprised it hasn't happened sooner.

.

You were under a rock?

Never heard of websheriff or somesuch employed by Prince/PP/NPG/etc?

Is that comment aimed at me, or EYE?

I wasn't "under a rock", I heard of "websheriff", which is why "I'm surprised it hasn't happened sooner".

"Prince's estate just filed docs against Eye Records "...has some1 the direct source of the complaint request with details filed by The Estate in court ?

thanx

love2thenines2003 said:

"Prince's estate just filed docs against Eye Records "...has some1 the direct source of the complaint request with details filed by The Estate in court ?

thanx

.

udo said:

love2thenines2003 said:

"Prince's estate just filed docs against Eye Records "...has some1 the direct source of the complaint request with details filed by The Estate in court ?

thanx

.

I guess this is as close to the court documents we are getting without paying for access:

https://www.pacermonitor....iani_et_al


I also found this while searching Google today. "House Quake"?

"According to the claim, France-based Eric Ziani and Frederic Bianco, Marcel Peters, from the Netherlands, Belgium-based Piet Van Ryckeghem, and companies Lovesigne, House Quake and Eye Records have been offering “bootleg Prince music”.".

https://www.google.com/ur...R1Uv4TwZAL

EG

luv4u said:

violetcrush said:

Well....Prince did also attempt to sue 22 fans $1 million each for linking to bootlegs back in 2014. So, I guess they're continuing in that same vein??

From the bowels of the org:

Prince launches huge lawsuit against bootleg sites
http://prince.org/msg/7/404520



Prince Drops $22 million lawsuit against Alleged Bootleggers

http://prince.org/msg/7/404744

Love it when you dig up this shit

udo said:

JamesDeslan said:

Piet Van Ryckeghem did a 4 page article when P died. Worked with per nilsen, went to 79 live shows 10 in Paisley Park. Gave prince parties, he even spoke with Prince once.

These EYE guys are hardcore fans

.

Just 79?

Well at least we're being specific here. Maybe James can also tell us about Piet Van Ryckeghem's blood type, his social security number and, most importantly, the names of the last 10 women he slept with?

databank said:

udo said:

.

Just 79?

Well at least we're being specific here. Maybe James can also tell us about Piet Van Ryckeghem's blood type, his social security number and, most importantly, the names of the last 10 women he slept with?

.

Well, these people now got a signal.

They can choose:

Make a quick buck before things grow more `complex`.

Or erase/hide/etc any tracks as far as possible and lay low.

udo said:

JamesDeslan said:

Piet Van Ryckeghem did a 4 page article when P died. Worked with per nilsen, went to 79 live shows 10 in Paisley Park. Gave prince parties, he even spoke with Prince once.

These EYE guys are hardcore fans

.

Just 79?

That was my first thought. Amateur!

why does this always happen when theres new releases? bootlegs r around when Prince /the estate DOESNT release anything

luvsexy4all said:

why does this always happen when theres new releases? bootlegs r around when Prince /the estate DOESNT release anything

.

I guess the record companies complained about competition.

SquirrelMeat said:

andrewm7 said:

SquirrelMeat said:

That was my first thought. Amateur!

you guys in Europe and America were heaps lucky with opportunities, I really wish I could have seen him play like that

It's not all about location. Unless somebody lived near MPLS and saw him there many times, the only way to see him 79 times was to spend tons of $ on travel. It wasn't about location but finances. No?

djThunderfunk said:

andrewm7 said:

SquirrelMeat said: you guys in Europe and America were heaps lucky with opportunities, I really wish I could have seen him play like that

It's not all about location. Unless somebody lived near MPLS and saw him there many times, the only way to see him 79 times was to spend tons of $ on travel. It wasn't about location but finances. No?

Well, geography does help, but money rules. I think I passed 79 by the end of the Diamonds & Pearls tour.

djThunderfunk said:

andrewm7 said:

SquirrelMeat said: you guys in Europe and America were heaps lucky with opportunities, I really wish I could have seen him play like that

It's not all about location. Unless somebody lived near MPLS and saw him there many times, the only way to see him 79 times was to spend tons of $ on travel. It wasn't about location but finances. No?

Ok if you read the post it says he saw him at PP 10 times. Not 79. The 79 would be all shows he saw. Sheeesh that's not a lot. I saw him perform 83 times and I still feel like a newbie compared to some of my Prince fan friend

Well because of finances and location, I saw him 9 times between becoming a fan in 82 and his passing. I didn't say "ONLY" 9 times because for most people, even most fans, 9 times is a lot. And I had to travel for 8 of those, he only played in the town I lived in ONCE, ever.

79 times, 83 times... these are numbers that those that live in the MPLS area and those that have lots and lots of money could hit. Most of us don't live near Minnie and aren't rich. Just sayin'...

He never played in my town.

I travelled across Europe to see shows.

And I only started acting like that after the 3rd quarter of 1988.