djThunderfunk said:

databank said:

No, no no, let's be specific here, because I see there's a lot of confusion around those matters.

They don't know anything except people.

It's not like they're sitting on a huge collection of uncirculating tapes and carefully curate it by choosing what to release when.

They grab anything they can from any "elite" trader who is willing to sell or give them tapes, then they release it.

But in order to make more expensive sets, they add to it anything that's recently been leaked for free online, as well as old outtakes they got from existing bootlegs and even, when Prince was alive, some official releases or streams.

Now certain people say those things wouldn't get out if they weren't paying traders to get the tapes, and therefore it's good that they do it. In a way that's true, certain things wouldn't have been leaked for free and only made it to us because Eye Records paid for it. So of course that is cool for us, and in a way I'm as grateful as anyone for this.

But that also involves a lot of dirty business and makes a lot of people upset, believe me.

And there are other bootleg "labels" or people who leak things for free, and I think it's fair enough to support those more than a label that does it for money, given that what the sell isn't theirs to sell in the first place.

What Eye Records does is to take advantage of a certain fringe of old fans who are too old to have taken the step towards digital music and who will pay anything to get a proper physical CD, even if it's unofficial and if half of it is full of crap they already had on older bootlegs. They only exist because so many Prince fans are over 50.

Now except for some traders who get pissed, they don't hurt no one by doing that, and that's why I don't want them sued for millions any more than you do. But let's not make them look like dignified curators of Prince music or heroes of the fandom like some would like to. They're basically carpet sellers, and what they do they do it only for the $$$.

So well said!

STILL - there would not have been any leaks if it were not for EYE. Just sayin'.

sulls said:

djThunderfunk said:

So well said!

Correction: STILL - there would not have been that many leaks if it were not for EYE. Just sayin'.

I acknowledged that myself.

Such a shame, who buys Prince bootlegs? Hardcore fans. Who would buy released copies of all these bootlegs? Hardcore fans. Getting rid of bootlegs has no effect on the bottom line for the estate. So I never understood this being an issue. Prince bootlegs are nice little gifts to the hardcore fans who have supported him his entire career. Prince stuff on youtube however is great exposure for the casual fan, and can only increase money coming into the estate with the added exposure to all things Prince.

Now Prince fans profiting off of Prince music, that is another story, there are some out there simply selling access to digital Prince music that they have, or, making physical duplicates of boots, and selling those. These people should be ashamed of themselves......you know who you are. These people bother much more than the main boot companies.


Anyway, I guess the writing was on the wall, and these hammers will keep dropping for decades to come.

peace

[Edited 9/6/18 1:43am]

I am not suprised, making money off of someone else's music is obviously a no-no.

I have always made it a point to download all music from bootleg labels for free, I never pay for unnoficial releases

leadline said:

Such a shame, who buys Prince bootlegs? Hardcore fans. Who would buy released copies of all these bootlegs? Hardcore fans. Getting rid of bootlegs has no effect on the bottom line for the estate. So I never understood this being an issue. Prince bootlegs are nice little gifts to the hardcore fans who have supported him his entire career. Prince stuff on youtube however is great exposure for the casual fan, and can only increase money coming into the estate with the added exposure to all things Prince.

Anyway, I guess the writing was on the wall, and these hammers will keep dropping for decades to come.

peace

[Edited 9/6/18 0:58am]

Are you sure about that? There were a lot of people saying that they wouldn't be buying P&M because they have had Intimate Moments for years. I believe that there would be a lor more excitement for this release if we hadn't had it years ago. I'll be buying it because it has better sound quality, at least, if Mary Don't You Weep is representative, and because I want to support official releases.

Don't get me wrong though, I think this is a poor thing to release and it would hardly set the world on fire if we hadn't already had it, it is very niche. But I do believe that it will sell less copies than it would had it not already been bootlegged.

TheEnglishGent said:

leadline said:

Such a shame, who buys Prince bootlegs? Hardcore fans. Who would buy released copies of all these bootlegs? Hardcore fans. Getting rid of bootlegs has no effect on the bottom line for the estate. So I never understood this being an issue. Prince bootlegs are nice little gifts to the hardcore fans who have supported him his entire career. Prince stuff on youtube however is great exposure for the casual fan, and can only increase money coming into the estate with the added exposure to all things Prince.

Anyway, I guess the writing was on the wall, and these hammers will keep dropping for decades to come.

peace

[Edited 9/6/18 0:58am]

Are you sure about that? There were a lot of people saying that they wouldn't be buying P&M because they have had Intimate Moments for years. I believe that there would be a lor more excitement for this release if we hadn't had it years ago. I'll be buying it because it has better sound quality, at least, if Mary Don't You Weep is representative, and because I want to support official releases.

Don't get me wrong though, I think this is a poor thing to release and it would hardly set the world on fire if we hadn't already had it, it is very niche. But I do believe that it will sell less copies than it would had it not already been bootlegged.

Hey there TheEnglishGent

I am pretty sure about this. A lot of people say that but when the time comes, they want an original, better quality version. A lot of folks even say that becuase they disagree vehemently with this being released. I have had intimate moments since the 90's, and as much as I think its ridiculous that this is the first release from the estate, I am buying 2 retail copies of the deluxe version. CD & Vinyl, one to play with, one to keep sealed, maybe pass on to someone in the future.

We will see right? Ultimately it would be hard to audit, but the fact that it is a niche market for this release, it seems hopes for sales trumps desire for profits in this case, which really is odd and I cannot fathom the thought process behind it. If I were in charge I would be releasing material that caters to the widest audience, and as fast as I could, because the interest will wane down as the years go on.

Peace

Now with eye label out of the way are we going to be seing those free releases of unreleased material by the inner circle. They seemed to say if it wasn't for eye making a profit which offended them they would put more stuff out .It would have the special bonus of annoying the estate who have let us fans down with shocking releases so far .

[Edited 9/6/18 5:28am]

master said:

Now with eye label out of the way are we going to be seing those free releases of unreleased material by the inner circle. They seemed to say if it wasn't for eye making a profit which offended them they would put more stuff out .It would have the special bonus of annoying the estate who have let us fans down with shocking releases so far .

[Edited 9/6/18 5:28am]

Ah ah Ah ...in the best way....very short snippets or Full song in mono & bad mixdown versions .....just to let us know ...they are the Kings of the game & us the suckers !!

[Edited 9/6/18 6:22am]

feeluupp said:

leadline said:

We will see right? Ultimately it would be hard to audit, but the fact that it is a niche market for this release, it seems hopes for sales trumps desire for profits in this case, which really is odd and I cannot fathom the thought process behind it. If I were in charge I would be releasing material that caters to the widest audience, and as fast as I could, because the interest will wane down as the years go on.

Peace

Really not sure about that. Critics are slowly but steadily realizing they missed a good decade of creativity in the nineties, and Prince is one of the very few acts of the eighties that you can still listen to without cringing. Whatever the sound, the songs structures, the interpretations are just too good, Prince is already set in stone, and that means he's going to be passed on to the next generation as someone of strong cultural relevance (a kick-ass musician and performer).

He's going to stand the test of time. The only thing is, we are not in the same situation as with Elvis Presley or Bob Marley: it's not going to translate in millions of sales.

The interest of the masses matters little, they're not the main target here. "Real music lovers" is a niche, but it's a solid one. Pity recorded music is nowadays considered as something cheap. The only solution for the industry to milk their back catalogs would be a globally closed and monitored internet, where no illegal copy would go unnoticed, but hopefully we'll never get there.

I think Prince is the poster child for the long tail, and one of the rare cases where it actually works: once you're hooked, you have a whole world to discover ("and to buy", shouted an Estate rep from the back of the room). But this world is made of unreleased works, that's the maverick/underground nature of Prince, it's his DNA. Now if the people in charge are too slow to act, they can't blame newcomers for sailing torrents like pirates.

I always come back to Dylan's Bootleg Series as the example to follow. But it's called "The Work" (or "iVault", or "Homemade Deluxe"), and we got it years ago. But let's not mix ourselves up with the young, fresh ears that just await to be stunned by Prince's undisputable creativity. The sad state of pop might just be an advantage here.

[Edited 9/6/18 11:55am]

andrewm7 said:

feeluupp said:

The digipack of the Silverline records boots of The Chocolate Invasion & The Slaughterhouse were going for over $200 on eBAY after his death.. Currently they are selling for over $80 each.

who else would love to see the + xpectation and c-note get a CD release from the Estate, I know I would

YES! YES!

sulls said:

andrewm7 said:

feeluupp said: who else would love to see the + xpectation and c-note get a CD release from the Estate, I know I would

YES! YES!

CD versions (vinyl too!) for the digital only NPGMC albums is a no-brainer. They need to get on that.

bonatoc said:

nelcp777 said:

So does the estate know the owners of eye records? I am interested in seeing how this plays out.

yes

Transformed1 said:

So, just playing devil's advocate here...

Eye records sells music that they did not write, perform, or record. They make money off of music that they did not create.

The Estate sells music that they did not write, perform, or record. they make money off of music that they did not create.

Prince wrote, performed, and recorded this music. He is not around to sell it or make money off of it. And he didn't leave a will to tell everyone what HE wanted done.

.
Don't be ridiculous. The estate holds the rights to the recordings, while bootleggers don't.

nelcp777 said:

NorthC said:

nelcp777 said:

So does the estate know the owners of eye records? I am interested in seeing how this plays out.

Their names are in the article on page 1. Some of them sound familiar to me, so I could even say that I know them (not personally.) But Europeans facing a lawsuit in America... That could be tricky..

The names are in which article? The TMZ linked in the OP? Or another?

NorthC said:

nelcp777 said:

So does the estate know the owners of eye records? I am interested in seeing how this plays out.

Their names are in the article on page 1. Some of them sound familiar to me, so I could even say that I know them (not personally.) But Europeans facing a lawsuit in America... That could be tricky..

Thanks for the information. Your point of the 2 countries is a good one. Even if the lawsuit is won by the Estate, having the country enforcing to pay is another hurdle.

when the estate doesnt get anywhere legally...will this open the floodgates ???????

Silvertongue7 said:

One of the guys behind Eye Records has posted today a free download of 17 Days (the Piano and a voice version that became available yesterday), which I find... interesting, I guess

So theyre doing the same shit then. Releasing already released material lol.

Kares said:

Transformed1 said:

So, just playing devil's advocate here...

Eye records sells music that they did not write, perform, or record. They make money off of music that they did not create.

The Estate sells music that they did not write, perform, or record. they make money off of music that they did not create.

Prince wrote, performed, and recorded this music. He is not around to sell it or make money off of it. And he didn't leave a will to tell everyone what HE wanted done.

.
Don't be ridiculous. The estate holds the rights to the recordings, while bootleggers don't.

Exactly. This should be the beginning and the end of the discussion.

I'm ok with the estate putting their foot down of course. As for Eye Records...I am a fan of what they have put out as well. I like what they produce. I see many sides to this...it's hard to root for the bootleg proprietors but they are filling the demand of those of us who desire them. If there was no demand there would be no need for these releases. Instead we pick a side and wag our fingers at whomever we feel are in the wrong.

These things sort themselves out.

djThunderfunk said:

NorthC said:

djThunderfunk said:

The names are in which article? The TMZ linked in the OP? Or another?

My mistake. Replay 89 on page 3 of this thread.

So the lawsuit sounds like a major uphill battle. Can the Estate hold associated artists responsible and sue them if Eye Records got tracks from them?

In the end, Eye records has to prove that they legitimately got the tracks and had rights to sell/release them, which they did not, hence bootlegs. Maybe the estate is looking for the leaks and trying to scare other bootleggers?

NorthC said:

djThunderfunk said:

The names are in which article? The TMZ linked in the OP? Or another?

My mistake. Replay 89 on page 3 of this thread.

Ahh, thank you!

Transformed1 said:

So, just playing devil's advocate here...

Eye records sells music that they did not write, perform, or record. They make money off of music that they did not create.

The Estate sells music that they did not write, perform, or record. they make money off of music that they did not create.

Prince wrote, performed, and recorded this music. He is not around to sell it or make money off of it. And he didn't leave a will to tell everyone what HE wanted done.

Exactly. However, the legal default now goes to the Estate as the "seller" of his music.

*

Prince was a smart guy. No doubt he knew EXACTLY how things would go down upon his death. When I watch that interview he did on The View in 2012 - when he was asked what was going to happen with all of his unreleased music and will he release it - his response was, "well, somebody will release it...I don't know that I'll get to release it..."

*

I just find it very hard to believe that he unintentionally left this world without a Will, and/or any legal directive for his Vault.

Kares said:

Transformed1 said:

So, just playing devil's advocate here...

Eye records sells music that they did not write, perform, or record. They make money off of music that they did not create.

The Estate sells music that they did not write, perform, or record. they make money off of music that they did not create.

Prince wrote, performed, and recorded this music. He is not around to sell it or make money off of it. And he didn't leave a will to tell everyone what HE wanted done.

.
Don't be ridiculous. The estate holds the rights to the recordings, while bootleggers don't.

I didn't make a claim towards any side. I understand the legal position. All I'm pointing out is that some people could look at it from the perspective that no one involved really created nor "deserves" to profit from his music since they did not contribute. Some might say that the bootleggers are no different than the estate, just oportunists.

The reality is more complex than that, and I haven't spent money on bootlegs since 1995. I just want to hear the music before I die of old age, and whoever is putting it out there... great. I would prefer it be "official" and gladly spend money on it.

I acknowledge the estates has a legal right to protect their assets.