Princ3fan046 said:

Mounting lawsuits will only piss off the bootleggers

and they will go harder underground to places the estate can't reach.

They need to be worried about keeping Paisley Park open.

Pissed off consumers don't buy things from the company they are upset with.

If people were really upset with bootleggers there would be no market for bootlegs.

**mic drop**

SuperFurryAnimal said:

go after people from personal experience they are kind of clueless.

I want this t-shirt.

GeurtWalraven said:

Honestly,

bootleggers are the ONLY source that provide us with unreleased music.

-

Do we like to have and hear it ?

Yes. (we're all weak and insatiable).

Do we like bootleggers ?

Mostly 'no' : they are way to expensive for something that officialy doesn't belong to them.

So they are cash grabbers.

-

What to do about it?

Copy their illegal releases as much as possible, share copies for free with everyone.

Let them feel that they can not grab (too much) cash.

And be honest, cause somehow we want/need them.

Alow them to 'have' something, but not too much.

-

Then again, know that all things illegal got 'leaked' by someone inside the Park.

Wether it was Prince, or employees.

These situations are known and will always be like this, nothing ever will change.

I even expect cleaned up and mixed versions of unreleased stuff to be leaked

from The Estate. mind my words.

As long as you have people involved and not enough paid for instance,

you will always have this hapening.

-

So don't make the 'inbetween money grabbers' like bootleggers take too much profit from it.

Just alow them to have a fair piece of the illegal cake.

Or...

Don't buy boots, and don't even listen to them online, ànd be super honest - if you realy can do this.

Only then you are alowed to bully and bitch on everyone as much as you like about this isue.

...only when you are a true purple-saint.

-

I'm weak.

-

Azifwekare319 said:

It looks like the Estate knows exactly who's behind Eye and where they are: http://www.startribune.co...492422931/

It looks like the Estate's lawyers are a bunch of amateurs.

.

Intrigued, if only because one of the offenders comes from my home city, something I wasn't aware of before, I've checked Google maps for this guy's address (admitting it's his address, there may be several people named like him in this particular city), and I wanted to see how you could possibly see the word "bootlegger" on the door on a Google Map pic, like was it written that big or what?

.

And, yeah, quite ironically there is a CLUB next to that particular address that's called "Le Bootlegger". You know, a night club. A quick reseach leads you to articles about the club and you learn that its owners are well known bars and clubs owners in the city, that the name and club's concept are related to the old American prohibition of alcohol, and that it has nothing to do with music bootlegs or this Eye Records dude who just happens, if that's him indeed, to live next door.

.

So much for the guy being a "brazen bootlegger"

.

And so much for the Star Tribune doing fact checking, which incidentally happens to be their job as journalists

.

Anyway, once again, I hope this is only a warning and that those guys will eventually be left alone (which, apparently, is what's going to happen according to the article). Worst case, I believe justice should be proportionate to the offence. I have no idea how much money those guys made off Eye Records, it might be a lot but I can't imagine it to be anywhere near the 2 million dollars per bootleg amount asked by the Estate.

databank said:

So, with EYE effectively sidelined, will the keepers open their hard drive vaults and share with the purple faithful from their bounty of goodies? Most likely - no. The 'fuck EYE' talk is all bullshit. EYE is a necessary evil in that they're the only way many of us get to hear anything, held back for the sake of keeping profiteers from making money off of Prince's property.

Azifwekare319 said:

databank said:

Anyway, once again, I hope this is only a warning and that those guys will eventually be left alone (which, apparently, is what's going to happen according to the article). Worst case, I believe justice should be proportionate to the offence. I have no idea how much money those guys made off Eye Records, it might be a lot but I can't imagine it to be anywhere near the 2 million dollars per bootleg amount asked by the Estate.

These sets can range from €40-80 (and in some special cases beyond), with anywhere between 400-1000 copies made per release. The Estate mentions that there have been 18 releases since Prince's death, but the catalog numbers listed on Discogs indicate a few more than that. Assuming the releases sell out, which according to Eye and also the resale value they do, that would mean since Prince's death alone they could have made anywhere from as little as €288,000 to as much as €1.6 million. That's not even considering the hundreds of Eye releases from before then (plus the bootlegs from various other labels and assorted home made burn-offs sold through that Lovesigne site). Probably pocket money to the Estate, but nothing to sniff at for random people who simply download, press and sell leaked material. [Edited 9/5/18 7:45am]

Hell! With figures like I should have manufactured bootlegs instead of wasting my life I can't then imagine how much the Sabotage people made with their 100+ releases

Regardless, even at 1.6 millions we're far from 2x18=36 millions.

The digipack of the Silverline records boots of The Chocolate Invasion & The Slaughterhouse were going for over $200 on eBAY after his death.. Currently they are selling for over $80 each.

Regardless, the Estate has made fools of themselves with this "bootlegger sign on the brazen bootlegger's front door" story. I mean seriously? Top dollar Hollywood lawyers? Gross.

databank said:

Regardless, the Estate has made fools of themselves with this "bootlegger sign on the brazen bootlegger's front door" story. I mean seriously? Top dollar Hollywood lawyers? Gross.

It seems that the money the Estate will spend on the top brass lawyers to pursue this law suit is just a waste.

The copyright laws were invented to prevent people from selling their own copies of official products. Think Xeroxed album covers and blank tapes or CDs.

Eye Records had original art and Prince vocal reference tracks that fDeluxe studied for their debut, The Family. That is very unique to the market. The audio was also good enough to go on 4Ever.

I would say "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" ie. hire them to curate future official releases.

leggers need to realize not to be so brazen

Cinny said:

The copyright laws were invented to prevent people from selling their own copies of official products. Think Xeroxed album covers and blank tapes or CDs.

Eye Records had original art and Prince vocal reference tracks that fDeluxe studied for their debut, The Family. That is very unique to the market. The audio was also good enough to go on 4Ever.

I would say "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" ie. hire them to curate future official releases.

Now don't push it

.

Those Eye Records compilations are the exact example of what not to do: loudness wars in the mastering; rehashing by rereleasing things that have already been released or leaked without improvement on sound quality; fakes and fanmade mixes shamelessely thrown in the mix; totally random compilations of tracks that have nothing to do together on a single set and that aren't even organized in a proper way; greedy politics placing maximum profits over respect for the artist, the material and the audience; not to mention all the behind the scenes dirty politics, lies, broken promises and betrayals that allowed Eye to obtain those tapes from elite traders.

.

You mad about what Sony did to the MJ legacy? Just imagine the reaction if WB began to release sets similar to those BFTP sets? Hell, look at the shit Prince had to deal with when he released Crystal Ball! But miraculously bootleggers can release any sort of shitty compilation and get praise for it? What sense does it make?

.

There certainly are people in this community who could provide good advice, from a fan's perpective, to the Estate, but those Eye Records folks certainly haven't demonstrated any professional qualities in that regard

luvsexy4all said:

leggers need to realize not to be so brazen

Cinny said:

databank said:

goldtele said:

GeurtWalraven said:

In the 90's-00's there was a truckload of Elvis Presley bootlegs featuring soundboards, outtakes, you name it. His record company started a ''collectors label'' in 1999. One of the reasons was to stop the releases of bootlegs. And it worked. Every now and then still Elvis bootlegs are coming out. Mostly with audience recorded concerts or re-releases from old bootlegs. The label is now going 19 years and still going strong. By now 173 titles has been released featuring books, concerts and outtakes. With so many material of Prince in the vaults, its a great opportunity to do the same.

Ive been saying the same thing. I am an avid Elvis & Prince collector and I think what RCA/BMG did with the FTD label was a perfect option for the fans. It didnt slow down any of the official releases at all either which I think is what the Prince estate might be worried about. I own almost every FTD release as well as most of what RCA has put out the past 20 years. Prince fans would totally support this concept and I think it would be a win / win for everyone... I wonder if the Graceland execs have discussed this option with the family...

Yeap, Im a Prince and Elvis collector as well. The FTD label has been a Godsend for collectors and has almost stopped the bootleg market of Elvis. I have every FTD release...The reason the label is so good is the man behind the label - Ernst Jorgensen.

After seeing the sales of bootlegs, Ernst Jorgensen convinced BMG (the owner at the time before Sony came into it) to let him start a collector's label, this was in 1999. And they named it Follow That Dream.

FTD (Follow That Dream), Sony Music's Official Elvis Presley Collectors label was established in 1999 to serve the dedicated Elvis collector and to complement the commercial and artistic level of RCA's retail release schedule by issuing repertoire that is considered of interest to serious Elvis fans and collectors, material that is generally not part of mainstream RCA label releases to the public at large.

THIS IS EXACTLY what needs to happen with Prince's vault. However, so far, the releases that have been done is for the general masses and not the serious Prince collector.. Even those releases that have came since Prince's passing have been put together without anyone that really KNOWS Prince's Entire Catalog.

[Edited 9/5/18 12:35pm]

they dont want people spending ALL our money on just ONE artist

the estate, the Prince reklatives are greedy.. what else are the motives:

the estate = our enemies, we the hardcore fans, who just wanna enjoy the music.

I say "f*ck off"! A**h*les.

No room for the estate, in my little world.



the estate still haven't proved they are capable to handle the vault full of music...

Pretty scary imho......

In a good (Princefan)world we need to have download links, lots and lots of music.

Product, do we need that? .........sure, dvd's - cd's - Lp vinyls.

Bring it on, I wanna spend some money, to own the music legally..

But... damn, that upcoming release is just a terrible bad recording.


The estate they seems clueless to what we need??

Really depressing, that we have to wait til 2019 for something interesting..

Boxsets with remasters, just HOW difficult can that be,


Will Sony re-release "35 albums", like we were told?


Fine bring it ON,

But to sue fans, that will just bring much anger from the community......

databank said:

Cinny said:

The copyright laws were invented to prevent people from selling their own copies of official products. Think Xeroxed album covers and blank tapes or CDs.

Eye Records had original art and Prince vocal reference tracks that fDeluxe studied for their debut, The Family. That is very unique to the market. The audio was also good enough to go on 4Ever.

I would say "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" ie. hire them to curate future official releases.

Now don't push it

.

Those Eye Records compilations are the exact example of what not to do: loudness wars in the mastering; rehashing by rereleasing things that have already been released or leaked without improvement on sound quality; fakes and fanmade mixes shamelessely thrown in the mix; totally random compilations of tracks that have nothing to do together on a single set and that aren't even organized in a proper way; greedy politics placing maximum profits over respect for the artist, the material and the audience; not to mention all the behind the scenes dirty politics, lies, broken promises and betrayals that allowed Eye to obtain those tapes from elite traders.

.

You mad about what Sony did to the MJ legacy? Just imagine the reaction if WB began to release sets similar to those BFTP sets? Hell, look at the shit Prince had to deal with when he released Crystal Ball! But miraculously bootleggers can release any sort of shitty compilation and get praise for it? What sense does it make?

.

There certainly are people in this community who could provide good advice, from a fan's perpective, to the Estate, but those Eye Records folks certainly haven't demonstrated any professional qualities in that regard

Welp, they seem to know what diehards want (and when they want it).

chelray1 said:

goldtele said:

GeurtWalraven said: Ive been saying the same thing. I am an avid Elvis & Prince collector and I think what RCA/BMG did with the FTD label was a perfect option for the fans. It didnt slow down any of the official releases at all either which I think is what the Prince estate might be worried about. I own almost every FTD release as well as most of what RCA has put out the past 20 years. Prince fans would totally support this concept and I think it would be a win / win for everyone... I wonder if the Graceland execs have discussed this option with the family...

Yeap, Im a Prince and Elvis collector as well. The FTD label has been a Godsend for collectors and has almost stopped the bootleg market of Elvis. I have every FTD release...The reason the label is so good is the man behind the label - Ernst Jorgensen.

After seeing the sales of bootlegs, Ernst Jorgensen convinced BMG (the owner at the time before Sony came into it) to let him start a collector's label, this was in 1999. And they named it Follow That Dream.

FTD (Follow That Dream), Sony Music's Official Elvis Presley Collectors label was established in 1999 to serve the dedicated Elvis collector and to complement the commercial and artistic level of RCA's retail release schedule by issuing repertoire that is considered of interest to serious Elvis fans and collectors, material that is generally not part of mainstream RCA label releases to the public at large.

THIS IS EXACTLY what needs to happen with Prince's vault. However, so far, the releases that have been done is for the general masses and not the serious Prince collector.. Even those releases that have came since Prince's passing have been put together without anyone that really KNOWS Prince's Entire Catalog.

[Edited 9/5/18 12:35pm]

This seems very logical and smart to me - a "collectors" label and "retail" label working together on releases, with the key component being to appoint the right person(s) to run the "collectors" side of things.

feeluupp said:

The digipack of the Silverline records boots of The Chocolate Invasion & The Slaughterhouse were going for over $200 on eBAY after his death.. Currently they are selling for over $80 each.

.

To be precise, such releases are not bootlegs, they are pirate releases and it's an important distinction.

thedance said:

the estate, the Prince reklatives are greedy.. what else are the motives:

People need to realize that for the moment, Prince's family has no say on the Estate's actions.

Cinny said:

databank said:

Now don't push it

.

Those Eye Records compilations are the exact example of what not to do: loudness wars in the mastering; rehashing by rereleasing things that have already been released or leaked without improvement on sound quality; fakes and fanmade mixes shamelessely thrown in the mix; totally random compilations of tracks that have nothing to do together on a single set and that aren't even organized in a proper way; greedy politics placing maximum profits over respect for the artist, the material and the audience; not to mention all the behind the scenes dirty politics, lies, broken promises and betrayals that allowed Eye to obtain those tapes from elite traders.

.

You mad about what Sony did to the MJ legacy? Just imagine the reaction if WB began to release sets similar to those BFTP sets? Hell, look at the shit Prince had to deal with when he released Crystal Ball! But miraculously bootleggers can release any sort of shitty compilation and get praise for it? What sense does it make?

.

There certainly are people in this community who could provide good advice, from a fan's perpective, to the Estate, but those Eye Records folks certainly haven't demonstrated any professional qualities in that regard

Welp, they seem to know what diehards want (and when they want it).

No, no no, let's be specific here, because I see there's a lot of confusion around those matters.

They don't know anything except people.

It's not like they're sitting on a huge collection of uncirculating tapes and carefully curate it by choosing what to release when.

They grab anything they can from any "elite" trader who is willing to sell or give them tapes, then they release it.

But in order to make more expensive sets, they add to it anything that's recently been leaked for free online, as well as old outtakes they got from existing bootlegs and even, when Prince was alive, some official releases or streams.

Now certain people say those things wouldn't get out if they weren't paying traders to get the tapes, and therefore it's good that they do it. In a way that's true, certain things wouldn't have been leaked for free and only made it to us because Eye Records paid for it. So of course that is cool for us, and in a way I'm as grateful as anyone for this.

But that also involves a lot of dirty business and makes a lot of people upset, believe me.

And there are other bootleg "labels" or people who leak things for free, and I think it's fair enough to support those more than a label that does it for money, given that what the sell isn't theirs to sell in the first place.

What Eye Records does is to take advantage of a certain fringe of old fans who are too old to have taken the step towards digital music and who will pay anything to get a proper physical CD, even if it's unofficial and if half of it is full of crap they already had on older bootlegs. They only exist because so many Prince fans are over 50.

Now except for some traders who get pissed, they don't hurt no one by doing that, and that's why I don't want them sued for millions any more than you do. But let's not make them look like dignified curators of Prince music or heroes of the fandom like some would like to. They're basically carpet sellers, and what they do they do it only for the $$$.

Kares said:

feeluupp said:

The digipack of the Silverline records boots of The Chocolate Invasion & The Slaughterhouse were going for over $200 on eBAY after his death.. Currently they are selling for over $80 each.

.

To be precise, such releases are not bootlegs, they are pirate releases and it's an important distinction.

thedance said:

So, just playing devil's advocate here...

Eye records sells music that they did not write, perform, or record. They make money off of music that they did not create.

The Estate sells music that they did not write, perform, or record. they make money off of music that they did not create.

Prince wrote, performed, and recorded this music. He is not around to sell it or make money off of it. And he didn't leave a will to tell everyone what HE wanted done.

databank said:

Cinny said:

Welp, they seem to know what diehards want (and when they want it).

No, no no, let's be specific here, because I see there's a lot of confusion around those matters.

They don't know anything except people.

It's not like they're sitting on a huge collection of uncirculating tapes and carefully curate it by choosing what to release when.

They grab anything they can from any "elite" trader who is willing to sell or give them tapes, then they release it.

But in order to make more expensive sets, they add to it anything that's recently been leaked for free online, as well as old outtakes they got from existing bootlegs and even, when Prince was alive, some official releases or streams.

Now certain people say those things wouldn't get out if they weren't paying traders to get the tapes, and therefore it's good that they do it. In a way that's true, certain things wouldn't have been leaked for free and only made it to us because Eye Records paid for it. So of course that is cool for us, and in a way I'm as grateful as anyone for this.

But that also involves a lot of dirty business and makes a lot of people upset, believe me.

And there are other bootleg "labels" or people who leak things for free, and I think it's fair enough to support those more than a label that does it for money, given that what the sell isn't theirs to sell in the first place.

What Eye Records does is to take advantage of a certain fringe of old fans who are too old to have taken the step towards digital music and who will pay anything to get a proper physical CD, even if it's unofficial and if half of it is full of crap they already had on older bootlegs. They only exist because so many Prince fans are over 50.

Now except for some traders who get pissed, they don't hurt no one by doing that, and that's why I don't want them sued for millions any more than you do. But let's not make them look like dignified curators of Prince music or heroes of the fandom like some would like to. They're basically carpet sellers, and what they do they do it only for the $$$.

So well said!