- How hard is it these days to throw together a CD set? (people make these, except the pressing of course, in their bedrooms)

- Why fix the release to a calendar?

- Why not tell the same 90's meme 'we do not want to over saturate the market' again? (when releasing a single disc one could follow up with a new release quicker than after the 10-disc set that was mentioned)

- This means the announcement is stupid and does not add nothinh new and does not show any signs of profit maximization for the estate in our liftimes (yes them discs will be expen$ive but that is not what I mean)

databank said:

leadline said:

I would take what she claims with a grain of salt......she is not playing with a full deck, and was even likely complicit in Prince's murder, which has been my gut feeling from the get go.

Prince wasn't murdered. Please keep idiotic conspiracy theories confined to the idiotic conspiracy theories threads on this board, and possibly even better to the idiotic conspiracy theories boards outside of the Org.

And please do not throw accusations at people like that. Tyka would actually be legally entitled to sue you for defamation for saying that, and I would if I was her. Just sayin'

.

Nothing personal against you, I just don't like people throwing accusations without proof in general. Maybe you will understand the harm you're doing when someone goes online, calls you by your real, legal name and claims you've murdered or raped someone when, in fact, you haven't.

And I also despise (and fear) conspiracy theories and the harm they're doing to our society, when claims become proof of guilt, beliefs become science and opinions become facts.

.

So please, just don't. Thank you.

.

Peace.

Thank you!!!!

Announced today: Metallica's …And Justice For All box set: 11 CDs • four DVDs • six vinyl records • 120-page hardcover book

.

The limited and numbered box set of the band’s fourth studio album includes the audio remastered and on double vinyl LP and CD with a further ten CDs of audio, including two discs of ‘Riffs, Jams and Demos’, a CD of Rough Mixes and six discs of live material, largely all unreleased. Amongst all this are B-sides and radio edits from the era.

.

In terms of vinyl, as well as the 2LP album remaster, the box includes Live Seattle ’89 as a triple LP (newly mixed by Greg Fidelman) and a vinyl picture disc of the third single, ‘One’.

.

On top of this, you get four DVDs featuring live performance, ‘raw’ live footage, archive camcorder material and more.

.

BartVanHemelen said:

TrevorAyer said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Announced today: Metallica's …And Justice For All box set: 11 CDs • four DVDs • six vinyl records • 120-page hardcover book

.

.

Eye wonder if the remaster will have any bass ...

.

https://www.rollingstone....ss-715079/

BartVanHemelen said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Announced today: Metallica's …And Justice For All box set: 11 CDs • four DVDs • six vinyl records • 120-page hardcover book

.

The limited and numbered box set of the band’s fourth studio album includes the audio remastered and on double vinyl LP and CD with a further ten CDs of audio, including two discs of ‘Riffs, Jams and Demos’, a CD of Rough Mixes and six discs of live material, largely all unreleased. Amongst all this are B-sides and radio edits from the era.

.

In terms of vinyl, as well as the 2LP album remaster, the box includes Live Seattle ’89 as a triple LP (newly mixed by Greg Fidelman) and a vinyl picture disc of the third single, ‘One’.

.

On top of this, you get four DVDs featuring live performance, ‘raw’ live footage, archive camcorder material and more.

.

I get so mad when I see other artists and bands having these incredible,multi-disc sets I just don't understand why it's so hard to put together something like this for Prince,smh

Oh look, an eight-disc CD box set of R.E.M.'s performances for BBC radio: https://www.spin.com/2018...udio-list/ .

.

Wouldn't it be nice if we got a box set of all of Prince's TV and radio performances (audio and video)? It's not like he did that many. Still, it would probably be a nightmare to sort all the rights...

so her plan is to let the fans that existed while he walked the earth go a lifetime without hearing the work that is so highly sought after to them?

muchtoofast said:

She and that family give me such anxiety.

Well boo hoo, isn't that just too bad? She's lost a brother. Nobody is worried about yours or anybody elses 'anxiety.'

rdhull said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Still, it would probably be a nightmare to sort all the rights...

.

That would mean going over all them CONtracts and such.

Will probably never happen.

Great, can't wait to be in my 80's getting Prince music that i've never heard before I will be dead long before that age.

BlueShakooo said:

The bootleggers are our only hope now!

.

Sad but so true.

And I love Prince, but does she think that anyone is going to care in 20 years or 50 years or 100 years?

Yes some people will care, but about as many who care about Duke Ellington right now.

BlueShakooo said:

The bootleggers are our only hope now!

.

Some of them are prosecuted in some way: http://www.startribune.co...492422931/

So perhaps they will be less active.

That leaves some other outlets available.

But they might need materials to put out.

Thizz said:

NorthC said:

Thizz said:

so her plan is to let the fans that existed while he walked the earth go a lifetime without hearing the work that is so highly sought after to them?

She talked about putting music out for hundreds or thousands of years, so she obviously expects Prince to go down into history like Mozart or Beethoven... Wake up, Tyka!

she probably cant do much....or she would to make more money

NorthC said:

Thizz said:

so her plan is to let the fans that existed while he walked the earth go a lifetime without hearing the work that is so highly sought after to them?

She talked about putting music out for hundreds or thousands of years, so she obviously expects Prince to go down into history like Mozart or Beethoven... Wake up, Tyka!

Mozart or Beethoven (and similar composers) went down in history not only because of their talent and importance in the history of Western music, but also because their legacy was carefully curated by Western upper classes, as knowing and listening to their work was/is a social sign of sophistication, in times when there was a clear and strong hierarchy between "classical" culture and "popular" culture. It's difficult to predict how modern composers will be remembered, because the above may not apply to them in a similar manner.

databank said:

NorthC said:

Thizz said: She talked about putting music out for hundreds or thousands of years, so she obviously expects Prince to go down into history like Mozart or Beethoven... Wake up, Tyka!

Mozart or Beethoven (and similar composers) went down in history not only because of their talent and importance in the history of Western music, but also because their legacy was carefully curated by Western upper classes, as knowing and listening to their work was/is a social sign of sophistication, in times when there was a clear and strong hierarchy between "classical" culture and "popular" culture. It's difficult to predict how modern composers will be remembered, because the above may not apply to them in a similar manner.

Irrelevant of how or why an artist gets remembered, the fact is that as each generation comes along, the disconnect between artist and their art becomes wider. The majority of people in the western world have heard of Mozart. But the majority of that majority wouldn't have a clue what symphonies he wrote. Similarly, the majority of that majority can hear a Beethoven symphony and recognise it as something they have heard before, but would never be able to put Beethoven's name to it (except in a lucky-guess kind of way due to the fact that Beethoven is one of the few names they know).

The same thing happens in pop culture. The artists that rose to the top and sustained a certain level of greatness have their names remembered down the generations. Similarly, their popular songs get recognised by the great unwashed. But because these artists are one, maybe two generations removed (as opposed to many as is the case with the classical composers), the disconnect between artist and their art is currently not so gaping. But as each generation comes along, that disconnect will grow.

The Beatles, Elvis, Duke Ellington, Hendrix, Queen, Miles Davis etc etc... These people will be remembered going forward. When kids learn musical instruments growing up they will learn peices that these people composed in the past. The disconnect between these artists and the songs they wrote will grow and over time they will be just a name, whilst their art will be just a song. Time hasn't faded these artists enough yet so a lot of folk can still put song to artist and artist to song. But that will fade over time, just as it has with the classic composers. But their names will not die, and neither will their music. It will just become less and less mainstream and more scholarly as time goes on.

The big question is whether Prince falls into that category. Did Prince do enough to allow his genius to be consumed by the masses during his lifetime? Or did his business decisions and ideology about protecting his art prevent his name entering the zeitgeist? As fans we can't help but look through purple tinted sunglasses and it is very easy for us to assume that the great unwashed know of Prince's genius, if not much of the songs he wrote. But, jornalists and his peers aside, did he really do enough to be remembered and, at a later point, studied in a classroom by generations far into the future? I hope so. But at the same time I can't help thinking he deliberately kept himself underground for too long making him almost appear as an 80's wonder kid that, like so many, fell off the radar.

Will he be remembered like MJ will be remembered, or will he be remembered like Frank Zappa? (no disrespect to Zappa and his fans - he was another prolific genius of our time).

JonnyBoyRebel said:

databank said:

Mozart or Beethoven (and similar composers) went down in history not only because of their talent and importance in the history of Western music, but also because their legacy was carefully curated by Western upper classes, as knowing and listening to their work was/is a social sign of sophistication, in times when there was a clear and strong hierarchy between "classical" culture and "popular" culture. It's difficult to predict how modern composers will be remembered, because the above may not apply to them in a similar manner.

Irrelevant of how or why an artist gets remembered, the fact is that as each generation comes along, the disconnect between artist and their art becomes wider. The majority of people in the western world have heard of Mozart. But the majority of that majority wouldn't have a clue what symphonies he wrote. Similarly, the majority of that majority can hear a Beethoven symphony and recognise it as something they have heard before, but would never be able to put Beethoven's name to it (except in a lucky-guess kind of way due to the fact that Beethoven is one of the few names they know).

The same thing happens in pop culture. The artists that rose to the top and sustained a certain level of greatness have their names remembered down the generations. Similarly, their popular songs get recognised by the great unwashed. But because these artists are one, maybe two generations removed (as opposed to many as is the case with the classical composers), the disconnect between artist and their art is currently not so gaping. But as each generation comes along, that disconnect will grow.

The Beatles, Elvis, Duke Ellington, Hendrix, Queen, Miles Davis etc etc... These people will be remembered going forward. When kids learn musical instruments growing up they will learn peices that these people composed in the past. The disconnect between these artists and the songs they wrote will grow and over time they will be just a name, whilst their art will be just a song. Time hasn't faded these artists enough yet so a lot of folk can still put song to artist and artist to song. But that will fade over time, just as it has with the classic composers. But their names will not die, and neither will their music. It will just become less and less mainstream and more scholarly as time goes on.

The big question is whether Prince falls into that category. Did Prince do enough to allow his genius to be consumed by the masses during his lifetime? Or did his business decisions and ideology about protecting his art prevent his name entering the zeitgeist? As fans we can't help but look through purple tinted sunglasses and it is very easy for us to assume that the great unwashed know of Prince's genius, if not much of the songs he wrote. But, jornalists and his peers aside, did he really do enough to be remembered and, at a later point, studied in a classroom by generations far into the future? I hope so. But at the same time I can't help thinking he deliberately kept himself underground for too long making him almost appear as an 80's wonder kid that, like so many, fell off the radar.

Will he be remembered like MJ will be remembered, or will he be remembered like Frank Zappa? (no disrespect to Zappa and his fans - he was another prolific genius of our time).

You're making some good points and I agree with most of what you say.

.

However I think that gatekeepers and tastemakers have a coinsiderable impact on which cultural products are remembered, by whom and how. We now know, for example, that the way History is taught in schools in each country is extremely partial and often the result of a political agenda: how we remember the past is how we choose to remember (and transmit) it, not necessarily how it truly was. Classical music fulfilled a specific role in Western societies that cannot be applied to popular music for many a reason.

.

The average European or American, a century ago, had never heard of Mozart or Beethoven and he hadn't ever heard a single note of their music either. That same average person, 2 centuries ago, was illiterate. Today's average citizen has probably heard the names of Mozart and Beethoven, and he probably knows some of their music though, as you say, he probably doesn't know that they're theirs, but that same person, on the other hand, is very much aware of the most famous stars of his era, be it The Beatles, Elvis, Michael Jackson or Lady Gaga to name a few. Yesterday's musical giants were a matter for the urban elites, and today's musical giants can also be (ask in the street who has heard of John Cage or Steve Reich), but many, those making popular music, are known by all.

.

Then there is the matter of recordings, which didn't exist until a little more than century ago. You will never hear nothing but renditions of pre-20th century composers, and those renditions are countless, but we have the definitive recordings made by later composers in their lifetime. There are and will be many covers but it nevertheless changes the way we relate to those works and the people who made them. As for folkloric works, many weren't even put to paper and have been lost.

.

And there is the matter of quantity: classical composers, people making music in general, were a tiny fraction of the number of people making (and recording!) music today. Mozart's competition was ridiculous by comparison to Prince's. And recordings keep piling up, every year.

.

I really cannot or don't want to draw any conclusion from any of this. I have no idea what's gonna happen, how 20th century composers will be remembered and by whom. There is going to be a selection process. There will, as you point out, will be tunes everyone knows but no one knows who wrote them. But how this is going to happen and who will get to write history remains a mystery.

.

As for what you say about whether Prince will be remembered as MJ or as Zappa, it's an interesting question. I for one think maybe it would be better if he was remembered like Zappa. Zappa was never really popular or famous, even in his lifetime, but he is now regarded as one of the most important, creative, groundbreaking and influential composer of his generation. MJ, on the other hand, will be remembered as an extremely important and influential entertainer. The songs will last much longer, but MJ wasn't such an important artist in terms of the work he left behind him. Don't get me wrong, I love MJ's works, I have all his records, but his impact was more an impact of how we define stardom and how artists market themselves than of a great artistic importance (though Dangerous was a remarkably groundbreaking and influential record, but somehow I have the impression it's not something that people realized, and it's only one record anyway). I'd rather Prince be remembered as an important composer than as an important entertainer.

I cringe when trying to listen to Mary Don't U Weep...


Damn I can't sit through the track, embarrassing.


Am I the only one disliking this.. the recording should never been released, just awful.

thedance said:

I cringe when trying to listen to Mary Don't U Weep...


Damn I can't sit through the track, embarrassing.


Am I the only one disliking this.. the recording should never been released, just awful.

Why should anyone cringe because of a song? I cringe when I see a video of brutality towards animals, mass shooting, rape, starving children in a poor country... A song? No. I can accept that it's natural for works of art to provoke strong reactions, positive or negative, and maybe even desirable. After all where would be the value of arts if it couldn't make people happy or upset. But honestly I think many people are overreacting. I once read a comment on a YT music video saying "Fuck you! I was in the garden and I had to get back inside to skip that shit! Fuck you!". Like, couldn't the guy cope with a song he disliked for three minutes and remain in his garden? I've seen people at their friends' houses jumping off their seat everytime a song they disliked was played and crying "C'mon dude what's this shit, why are you listening to shit like that, c'mon, change the music man change the music!". How rude and immature can this be, to be at people's house and react in such a manner? It's all emotional problems more than appreciation for music if you ask me.

.

Besides, I notice a strong tendency among fans to like any bootleg, and back in the days pay great amounts of money for them, but to start blaming Prince (or in that case the Estate) for ripping them off and releasing shit the minute a new Prince record comes out. I'm not sure which it is but I fear there probably is some cognitive bias behind that. Maybe something in the line that bootlegs are rare and precious, therefore good, while releases are common and ordinary, therefore must be masterpieces to deserve our attention. Or maybe something in the line that Prince couldn't be blamed for something one dislikes he recorded but didn't release (therefore it's not crap), but if he releases it then he's to blame (and then it's crap). Just see the amount of praise Eye Records get despite releasing substandard compilations with dubious sound quality, half of which are made of things we already had, vs. the hostility Prince and the Estate will get for professional products (even if, in that particular case, of course, it's from a tape so it can't sound as good as ONA). Speaking of ONA, remember when it was released and for years everyone here was like "Prince should have released the awesome Intimate Moments bootleg instead of that shit", and now that the Estate is finally releasing Intimate Moments those same people are like "How dare they release that Intimate Moment shit?". Damn, guys, if I was working at WB and I'd been reading the Org back when ONA was released, I'd have thought Intimate Moments was one of the things the fans want the most in the world, you know? And now y'all making a fuss? You guys have to pull yourselves together.

.

And to answer your question:

No. I don't cringe when I listen to Mary Don't You Weep. And yes. I can sit through it. I think this recording is a beautiful one. Maybe not what I would have picked for a first (second with the PR Deluxe bonus CD) posthumous release, but on the other hand if anything makes sense to show the world a fragile, intimate and passionate side of Prince and make him look like a respectable musician as opposed to an ordinary Top 40 entertainer, that's the one recording the Estate needs. Beyond that, I paid good money to have this recording on a bootleg, with a much poorer sound quality, and enjoyed it a lot back in the days, so why in the world should I cringe now that it's gonna be part of the canon and in much better sound quality?

I'm a Prince fan. I like Prince's music. Some more than other, but I like the fundamental principles of Prince's music. Prince's music doesn't make me cringe. I want to hear it all. I want it all released. And while I may disagree with the Estate's priorities or the way they handle certain aspects of their releases (such as tinkering with the original tapes as they've already done on 2 occasions), I'm not gonna complain about them... releasing Prince music. I want them to release Prince music. More. As much as possible. That's why I created this thread in the first place!

Prince fans complaining about Prince music being released, whether he's alive or dead, is something I'm sick of reading on this board. You know what? I think it might even make me cringe

^ databank, ok.. the Mary Don't U Weep-song:


I can't listen to the whole song, because I can't feel it, maybe the word "cringe" is not right (after all I am danish, not native english),

I just wanted to use a strong word, but maybe "I am embarrassed", is more suitable better than "cringe".


I really don't like this recording, it wasn't meant to be released (it is a rehearsal something like that, not a finished song at all)...

I like the funky side of Prince, the psycadelic side, the pop side of his music. Of course the soul and RnB as well..

But Mary Don't U Weep? Tell me what is so great about it.

To me it sounds unfinished, to me it's just bad. In my opinion..

This, it does not sound like the Lovesexy / SOTT / Purple Rain Prince, right?

The Mary song is so niche, I don't think its aimed at the mainstream, and the hardcores do they like this, I believe some does, after reading some responses, I admit some finds it great.

Personally I find it rather awful. I just can't listen to the whole thing..

[Edited 9/10/18 12:07pm]

BartVanHemelen said:

Announced today: Metallica's …And Justice For All box set: 11 CDs • four DVDs • six vinyl records • 120-page hardcover book

.

The limited and numbered box set of the band’s fourth studio album includes the audio remastered and on double vinyl LP and CD with a further ten CDs of audio, including two discs of ‘Riffs, Jams and Demos’, a CD of Rough Mixes and six discs of live material, largely all unreleased. Amongst all this are B-sides and radio edits from the era.

.

In terms of vinyl, as well as the 2LP album remaster, the box includes Live Seattle ’89 as a triple LP (newly mixed by Greg Fidelman) and a vinyl picture disc of the third single, ‘One’.

.

On top of this, you get four DVDs featuring live performance, ‘raw’ live footage, archive camcorder material and more.

.

Metallica.. releasing a 11 cd set?


Now the Prince-estate, bring it on, the vault contains the real "central erotic Prince" (something like that)


I believe Prince told Kurt Loder this in the '90's on MTV?


And, of course there will be great releases to HOPE for will be released - lots and lots of amazing Prince-stuff to hope for, - and soon pretty please..


I will cross my fingers, maybe in 2019...

BartVanHemelen said:

TheEnglishGent said:

Shit news. Doesn’t make sense. The money is here now, in our pockets. The money won’t be there in ten or twenty years.

.

I've been saying that for twenty years. Prince failing to open his archives and curate his back catalog was always a massive error, especially when the music industry was collapsing. It's not like his fans were saving their money for the "inevitable" release of those vault contents.

.

Quite frankly most of the contents of those vaults should have been released over the years, and his estate should simply be maintaining that catalog and perhaps configure new box sets with material that would be of interets mostly to hardcore fans.

Although I agree with you (as most often) it was much easier forgiving Prince those bad choices than it is nog with the estate. Prince often showed very bad business sence, but he was an artist brilliant enough to make up for it. The estate's main purpose is making money, and they're not doing it very well.

thedance said:

^ databank, ok.. the Mary Don't U Weep-song:


I can't listen to the whole song, because I can't feel it, maybe the word "cringe" is not right (after all I am danish, not native english),

I just wanted to use a strong word, but maybe "I am embarrassed", is more suitable better than "cringe".


I really don't like this recording, it wasn't meant to be released (it is a rehearsal something like that, not a finished song at all)...

I like the funky side of Prince, the psycadelic side, the pop side of his music. Of course the soul and RnB as well..

But Mary Don't U Weep? Tell me what is so great about it.

To me it sounds unfinished, to me it's just bad. In my opinion..

This, it does not sound like the Lovesexy / SOTT / Purple Rain Prince, right?

The Mary song is so niche, I don't think its aimed at the mainstream, and the hardcores do they like this, I believe some does, after reading some responses, I admit some finds it great.

Personally I find it rather awful. I just can't listen to the whole thing..

[Edited 9/10/18 12:07pm]

Many native speakers use "cringe" so it's not just you. I realize that they often mean it as an expression more than a factual thing, but nevertheless I find it excessive.

.

Yes this practice session (that's what it was) isn't "finished" or intended to ever be finished, nor was it meant to be heard. So were many bootlegs (outtakes, early versions of songs, early configurations of albums, rehearsals, soundchecks and even most live shows that were made to be experienced by the audience but not sent to posterity as a record or video album), and yet we do buy/download those bootlegs, don't we? I'm OK with such a release since we are told what we are sold, the PR didn't claim it was something Prince meant for us to hear. IDK, I just like to hear Prince's creative process in progress, I find it interesting. That's why I love rehearsals and soundchecks so much, jam sessions with his bands that no one were ever meant to hear, where Prince was trying ideas and just having fun playing music without caring whether people would like it or not. I want as much of that as we can get. I'm past needing"finished" stuff, I'm way deeper than that into Prince (and music in general): I like to hear the behind the scenes stuff as well, see how the music grew.

.

This specific recording (Mary as well as the rest), I find it nice. It's kind of an early version of ONA after all, and ONA is a record I love. Just a piano and a voice and some soft jammin'. It's sweet, a nice lounge record to play late at night with incence and candles and a beautiful girlfriend (sorry for the cliché but there's some beauty to this cliché IMHO). IDK who it's aimed for and I don't care. Prince fans seem to like all sorts of different things and mainstream audiences usually like what they're being told to like by the media. Not my problem. I know I like it. I know my GF who's a casual Prince enthusiast will like it. I know I can play it to people and they'll be like "wow I never knew Prince had that side to him", same way they do when I play them ONA, The War or NEWS. I guess the target audience isn't mainstream in the sense that mainstream never cared for piano and voice jazzy records no matter whether it's "finished" or not. It's probably mostly aimed at a more sophisticated audience, older people, critics, whomever digs that kind of stuff, most likely the Estate decided to aim at critical acclaim more than sheer commercial success, which is maybe a smart move to establish Prince as a "serious" artist, then later on they can try for something more for the hardcore fans or something more mainstream if they can find anything (obviously they won't find a Top 20 rap or breakbeat single in the vault). But as I said not my problem, I like it alright. Of course it's not Lovesexy or SOTT or PR, it's not meant to and hell am I glad there are so many sides to P's music and that not everything he did sounds like his old, classic albums! But it sure does sound as the same Prince to me. The whole vibe is him. It's that side of him I loved three decades ago with HCUDCMA or COTH.

.

IDK, I'd rather they'd found another piano rehearsal we'd never heard before, or anything we'd never heard before: this is what I'm the most interested in at this point, the things we ain't heard before. But I'm cool with it. Now if you don't like it it's OK, and I agree it definitely isn't the most fascinating record ever released by Prince, but it's not bad. Turn on the radio or MTV, then you'll hear what bad is: lazy, soulless and prefabricated corporate music made by hacks for money. This is a glimpse into a real, fascinating artist's creative process.

NorthC said:

That's right, data, following that creative process is fascinating and it helps you to understand Prince's (or another artist's) work. And that's exactly why the Estate should do better than this! Instead of PR Deluxe and the piano thing more than a year later, we should have a Purple Rain Sessions box set which could include this piano thing. Or imagine a compilation of all the 1993-95 sessions plus a few live shows...

Agreed...

While many people find this piano & a microphone release "nice" or whatever... It shouldn't be released as the first planned posthumous release from the estate... It is not a good choice at all. You can see there was no real regard or planning with what to release, just two execs that found a cassette tape lying around and decided that will be the one to release... Not a smart decision for the commercial appeal or to the hardcore fans.

What really worries me is, if they treat his most successful, most iconic, most appealing and most commercial album the way they treated PR DELUXE, with the sound issues, flimsy packaging, supbar liner notes and pics... What will they do to the more obscure albums to the mass public like Lovesexy, Parade, etc... Will we even get deluxe editions for any more albums, or will they just continue to randomly choose non equivicating releases such as the piano and a microphone release.