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Thread started 08/23/18 3:20pm

lonelyalien

Would you say Prince was a true original or a brilliant musical thief?

Obviously prince was a musical genius but would you consider him an original musically?

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Reply #1 posted 08/23/18 3:26pm

PeteSilas

lonelyalien said:

Obviously prince was a musical genius but would you consider him an original musically?

"good artists borrow great artists steal" he stole a lot and he also had a lot of originality too, especially in the 80's. He blending of so many different styles/imagery was unusual. Black gospel,country, arena rock, heavy metal, even the yodelling he would do would be practically unheard of for a black artist in his era, he pretty much did what he wanted, which any great artist should. Joni Mitchell called him a hybrid and saying he was more hybrid than original, that's got a lot of truth to it too. He was a hybrid of sly/elvis/james/jimi and many many others but he brought plenty to the table, whether it was "original" or not, he brought plenty.

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Reply #2 posted 08/23/18 3:27pm

luvsexy4all

original theif

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Reply #3 posted 08/23/18 4:10pm

RodeoSchro

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He was darn near the perfect musician, at least for me. Thief? Hardly.

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Reply #4 posted 08/23/18 4:51pm

TrivialPursuit

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RodeoSchro said:

He was darn near the perfect musician, at least for me. Thief? Hardly.


C'mon. He stole a lot, especially in his live shows. The arrangements, the "on the one!" type stuff - there are tons of examples. Everyone takes from someone. Let's not pretend he was an exception. It doesn't cheapen his work, but to pretend it doesn't exist would be a bigger indictment.

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Reply #5 posted 08/23/18 5:45pm

PeteSilas

he had great taste in what he stole

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Reply #6 posted 08/23/18 7:34pm

SquirrelMeat

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What's the difference between 'steal' and 'influenced by'?

It's no coincidence that most major artists are influenced by the music they grew up listening to.

The only orginal artist is the caveman/woman who found a beat and warbled to it. Everyone after that 'stole' or became 'influenced' by something.

.
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Reply #7 posted 08/23/18 7:45pm

rogifan

Good grief. If Prince ‘stole’ then there’s hardly any popular artists that didn’t. Being influenced by what came before or what’s currently around you isn’t stealing.
Paisley Park is in your heart
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Reply #8 posted 08/23/18 8:21pm

PeteSilas

rogifan said:

Good grief. If Prince ‘stole’ then there’s hardly any popular artists that didn’t. Being influenced by what came before or what’s currently around you isn’t stealing.

david bowie called prince a "great thief' in an old rs interview, then he admitted it was a case of "the pot calling the kettle black" and then said "oops".

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Reply #9 posted 08/23/18 8:24pm

skywalker

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Prince took everything that had come before him in popular music and did something different with it. He made it his own sound/style/look. Sure he's Jimi/James/Little Richard/Lennon/Sly, but he is singular.
-
Seriously though? You really think that Prince isn't an original? He's an innovator in music and regarded as such.
"New Power slide...."
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Reply #10 posted 08/23/18 8:26pm

skywalker

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TrivialPursuit said:



RodeoSchro said:


He was darn near the perfect musician, at least for me. Thief? Hardly.




C'mon. He stole a lot, especially in his live shows. The arrangements, the "on the one!" type stuff - there are tons of examples. Everyone takes from someone. Let's not pretend he was an exception. It doesn't cheapen his work, but to pretend it doesn't exist would be a bigger indictment.



Ha! This is like claiming that Star Wars "stole" from 2001 or Star Trek. Kinda, but not really...
"New Power slide...."
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Reply #11 posted 08/23/18 9:33pm

TrivialPursuit

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skywalker said:

TrivialPursuit said:


C'mon. He stole a lot, especially in his live shows. The arrangements, the "on the one!" type stuff - there are tons of examples. Everyone takes from someone. Let's not pretend he was an exception. It doesn't cheapen his work, but to pretend it doesn't exist would be a bigger indictment.

Ha! This is like claiming that Star Wars "stole" from 2001 or Star Trek. Kinda, but not really...


Granted, some things are more specific than others.

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Reply #12 posted 08/23/18 11:37pm

Vannormal

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Both.

For instance :

Most of his stage act was a total James Brown rip off; the dancing with the microphone, splits, etc..

Musically too much to mention, working your band on stage, having them dealing with choreography too... etc.

The live piano and act, the feminin approach, the hair, etc; Little richard.

The eclectic band assembles; Sly & The Family Stone (the name even ? Prince & The Revolution ?)

The guitar treatment; Jimmy Hendrix.

The different styles, looks, gender mix; David Bowie...

and on and on.

-

But everyone looks at everyone, artists are basically not/never pure in originality.

All of them have eyes and ears, and compare themselves to get to a point to achieve some different form, some other form of trying to be original.

-

What makes them special is the way they handle all this information and turn it into something (much more) personal and attractive to others. Trying to be something, looking for some kind of recognition.

-

imho of course

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
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Reply #13 posted 08/24/18 12:05am

PeteSilas

I do think it's clear that his biggest contributions were making the best use of the technology of his time, the drum machines and the keyboards, everyone was using them but many of them looked to him for clues on how to make the best use of them. After that? a good song is a good song to me and he made plenty throughout his career. Everyone steals, James Brown took a ton from little richard, jackie wilson probably even guys like cab calloway and louis jordan too. Early rock was actually mostly boogie woogie, blues,r and b, country, it was fresh enough to coin a new term but it wasn't really original either. take the old, switch it all up and make it new, same with rap.

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Reply #14 posted 08/24/18 2:42am

robertgeorge

Prince was a musical alchemist, a sound sorcerer who could turn what was recycled, seen a passe and tired and make it new by putting his own stamp on it.

When he made obvious references in particular onstage it was like he was that same kid from Minneapolis living his dreams onstage. His James Brown references, harken back to that concert his dad took him to (with the finest girls' he'd ever seen in his life - by the way has anybody verified or fact checked this story? He mentions it on the MTV 1986 interview)

At times he was James Brown (band leading) Miles Davis (bad ass cool), Little Richard (libertine outrageousness) Jerry Lee Lewis (tearing up all 88 keys) he almost always had an imprint of Sly in him (I think he channeled Slys hip outsider cool that grasped the popular imagination vibe) he was Mick Jagger but a better dancer, and with more of a sneer. Jimi on the guitar and the facial expressions when he felt the music

I think Prince was an original, who used his influences in the same way as Hendrix used blues and R and B to make songs that didn't fit that description like The Wind Cried Mary or Machine Gun or Castles made of Sand etc.


In terms of originality and appeal I love Prince's attitude to take on any genre and find a foothold, this was epitomised in his mastership of many musical instruments as much as styles. Prince was a musical plethora, a pocket myriad, who was legion in his styles (despite having familiar themes he had spectacular tangents) He said it best when taking about U2 who had won (sign o the times' grammy) the grammy for Joshua Tree when he said "I can play their music, but can they play housequake" And yes Prince you certainly could.

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Reply #15 posted 08/24/18 3:37am

fen

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skywalker said:

TrivialPursuit said:


C'mon. He stole a lot, especially in his live shows. The arrangements, the "on the one!" type stuff - there are tons of examples. Everyone takes from someone. Let's not pretend he was an exception. It doesn't cheapen his work, but to pretend it doesn't exist would be a bigger indictment.

Ha! This is like claiming that Star Wars "stole" from 2001 or Star Trek. Kinda, but not really...

Comparing it to how Star Wars stole form Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress" might be a better analogy. smile

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Reply #16 posted 08/24/18 3:40am

TheFman

Would you say Prince was a true original or a brilliant musical thief?

Both.
He stole a lot, it went often much further than 'being insprired'. We all heard the sources, sometimes those were blatant rip-offs.


But, he used that to make it his own. Plus his undenyable geniality created a real original and often copied sound. There was no-one like him and there wont ever be someone like him.

I was yesterday listening the whole day to the newer (old) outtakes that surfaced, and that confirmed once again his legacy, master of the melody, great student of the hamony, teacher of the rythem, magician of bridges, and great sourcerer of sounds.

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Reply #17 posted 08/24/18 6:42am

RodeoSchro

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TrivialPursuit said:

RodeoSchro said:

He was darn near the perfect musician, at least for me. Thief? Hardly.


C'mon. He stole a lot, especially in his live shows. The arrangements, the "on the one!" type stuff - there are tons of examples. Everyone takes from someone. Let's not pretend he was an exception. It doesn't cheapen his work, but to pretend it doesn't exist would be a bigger indictment.



What the heck are you supposed to say when you wish for your musicians to cease playing on the first beat of the upcoming measure?

Are you say that whomever first instructed his/her musicians to terminate their performance upon the inception of the next forthcoming measure is the only person allowed to use that device?

OK, that's all the big words I know. smile

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Reply #18 posted 08/24/18 7:06am

littlemissG

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Influenced by and similar to many.
You know he admired Grand Central Staion. Sly and the Family Stone, blues and folk artist, but made it his own and ignored genres.
All greats stand on the shoulders of those who came before.
No More Haters on the Internet.
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Reply #19 posted 08/24/18 7:12am

rdhull

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"Like Jimi and Sly, Prince is an original; but apart from that, he’s like no one else."-Loder

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
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Reply #20 posted 08/24/18 7:44am

skywalker

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fen said:

skywalker said:

TrivialPursuit said: Ha! This is like claiming that Star Wars "stole" from 2001 or Star Trek. Kinda, but not really...

Comparing it to how Star Wars stole form Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress" might be a better analogy. smile

Touche.

[Edited 8/24/18 7:45am]

"New Power slide...."
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Reply #21 posted 08/24/18 7:47am

skywalker

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Prince is generally credited as being one of the most creative and originals ever...despite his obvious love for his influences.

-

Let me ask this: Are there any true originals? Meaning artist is influenced by someone/something.

[Edited 8/24/18 7:47am]

"New Power slide...."
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Reply #22 posted 08/24/18 7:47am

SoftSkarlettLo
visa

Not a musical thief - he was experimental. He often paid homage to the artists that influenced him and even performed with some of them (e.g. George Clinton). He never made it a secret he was influenced by certain artists.

Artists are influenced by other artists all the time. Even the most brilliant music minds need a source to get inspiration and start somewhere in the first place.

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Reply #23 posted 08/24/18 11:43am

1725topp

skywalker said:

Prince took everything that had come before him in popular music and did something different with it. He made it his own sound/style/look. Sure he's Jimi/James/Little Richard/Lennon/Sly, but he is singular. - Seriously though? You really think that Prince isn't an original? He's an innovator in music and regarded as such.

*

While I agree with this, I'm only responding becasue I'm just always happy to see Skywalker!

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Reply #24 posted 08/24/18 5:46pm

Lovejunky

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lonelyalien said:

Obviously prince was a musical genius but would you consider him an original musically?

Prince is probably the most impressive single person !

..hes incredibly inventive, yet hes using a lot of old ...

hes coming from all sorts of areas from the past and hes really ..

hes pushing them all through a blender

so they come out

oozing

and

tripping

with honey and sex..

That LoveSexy..WOW

Like WHaaa..

....I dont know whether Id like to work with him..

coz hes so Powerful

Hed probably intimidate me a bit.."

~Robert Plant~

“LOVE IS THE MASTERPLAN”
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Reply #25 posted 08/24/18 6:49pm

purplethunder3
121

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Related image

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato
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Reply #26 posted 08/24/18 8:04pm

violetcrush

Just listened to Jesse Johnson's interview with Questlove, which was great. Jesse tells of the first time he met and spoke to Prince after watching one of his shows. Jesse met Morris first, and Morris brought him to the show. Jesse said to Prince after the show, "wow that was great. I see you like Jimi Hendrix too". Prince replied, "oh no, I've never listened to him play". Jesse, not knowing Prince's personality yet at all, said, "oh, you gotta be f***cking kidding me man! That is some bullshit man!".....or something to that effect. Jesse said Morris was trying to motion to him to stop talking about it. He said Prince fell on the ground laughing hysterically. Then they became good friends.

*

Prince "borrowed" from many of the greats who came before him, but he blended, mixed, and morphed those things into his own unique style and sound. He really did create that certain sound in the 80's. That was his time, and his growth in that decade was amazing.

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Reply #27 posted 08/24/18 8:21pm

purplethunder3
121

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"What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun."-- Ecclesiastes 1:9

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato
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Reply #28 posted 08/24/18 9:21pm

PeteSilas

violetcrush said:

Just listened to Jesse Johnson's interview with Questlove, which was great. Jesse tells of the first time he met and spoke to Prince after watching one of his shows. Jesse met Morris first, and Morris brought him to the show. Jesse said to Prince after the show, "wow that was great. I see you like Jimi Hendrix too". Prince replied, "oh no, I've never listened to him play". Jesse, not knowing Prince's personality yet at all, said, "oh, you gotta be f***cking kidding me man! That is some bullshit man!".....or something to that effect. Jesse said Morris was trying to motion to him to stop talking about it. He said Prince fell on the ground laughing hysterically. Then they became good friends.

*

Prince "borrowed" from many of the greats who came before him, but he blended, mixed, and morphed those things into his own unique style and sound. He really did create that certain sound in the 80's. That was his time, and his growth in that decade was amazing.

i hope they load that up on something other than pandora so i can hear it, i heard michael deans review of it, pretty interesting. also, he recounts that prince told jesse that he was too good to work with d'angelo, which sounds kinda wierd, maybe like he was trying to fuck with Jesse's head a little bit or maybe he really thought that.

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Reply #29 posted 08/24/18 10:18pm

robertgeorge

I heard Jamie Starr was a thief!

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