IstenSzek said:

He actually didn't sing that many songs about drugs. There are references in Old Friends for Sale, Little Pill (which was written for a movie), All the Critics, Clouds and maybe a few more. But rock stars sing about drugs quite a bit more usually. I think Prince has got more songs about loneliness, race, and war.

Mintchip said:

We’ll obviously never know, and believe what we want. I think, given the facts of his death, and the nature of his life, the OP is asking fair questions, which will linger and multiply as time goes on. It was, for me, one of the tragedies of his death - that the myth of the hyper productive / how did he do it? / does he even sleep? sober-minded genius would be questioned. . Another fact: for someone stone cold sober, he sure sang about (not doing) drugs a lot. After sex, love, god, music, and dancing - probably about as much as he mentioned money. Pretty often, for something he never touched or needed. How often do you, who have never touched drugs, find yourself talking about doing it or not doing it? . The first time I ever suspected anything truly drug-related was when I heard the lyrics to “clouds”. The use of clouds as a means of getting high is just too insidery for me to call it a coincidence. I joked about how he’s able to stay awake for all those after shows.

I do think he worked harder than anyone I have ever heard of. He burned people out and I think he knew sometimes when folks were starting to get burned out but he couldn't stop himself from working that hard. Getting high or even avoiding his issues was rarely in the early days the reason for using..IMO. I don't think he liked the idea of drugs, was ashamed of him and didn't glamorize them or mystify them. I think he hated that he had to turn to them to keep going as a musician/rock star (whether the drugs were used as a bit of chemical courage, or to deal with pain issues, or to keep working or to combat anxiety or all of the above). But I hope the drugs don't define him in his entirety. I have been listening to and watcing his music/performances tonight (stuff in the 90's/2000's/2010's mostly) and the guy was still sharp on stage not just as a musician but as a band leader, rock star, and wit). So, I don't think he was high 24/7 or used to such an extent that he was loopy all the time (at least in his earlier days there were rare instances of loopy behavior.) . The drugs were a component of him, but not the entirety of him. I think his behavior that maybe even he didn't understand might have come from drug usage. I think maybe his paranoia might have increased when he was coming down from stuff. But a lot of his eccentricity was his own.

Mintchip said:

IstenSzek said:

what people seem to forget is that his band members were also awake for the rehearsal,
the soundcheck, the main show and the aftershow.

and they were mere mortals oh wait i guess they were all on drugs, too.

Again, everyone’s going to see what they want. I know you’re going for a sarcastic sidewinder there, but the point of the whole debate is that everyone actually was mortal, right? I mean, if that’s what you want me to argue, I think I win. The musicians were in the band for three or four years, then bounced. Often by him, often on their own, precisely because the environment was so demanding, mysterious, one of a kind, and impenetrable. They adapted to his schedule. Their presence doesn’t prove or disprove anything.

[Edited 7/27/18 21:53pm]

[Edited 7/27/18 21:58pm]

[Edited 7/27/18 22:01pm]

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

Mods happy for you to lock this up BUT i think its a very valid point to debate?

Thus far I think we can comfortably summise that P used drugs for pain relief for many years. The use of which grew & ended with its tragic & inevitable conclusion. I now wonder how much his commercial, artistic & creative decisons were driven / influenced by drugs in general & gave us a journey of frustration & pure joy in equal measure. Specifically I am thinking about:

the name change

bad commercial decsions on singles / lack of videos

treatment of staff inc engineers / band mates etc - who oft noted his huge mood swings

his intense ability to work lonnnng hours & expect the same from others...was his stamina driven by drugs?

Bat shit crazy / genius songs - Wedding Song surely was from a bad trip!

Endless projects started & stopped

etc

The thought of his creative genius being somehow influenced by drugs upsets me greatly...yes it helped the Beatles & I guess countless others BUT I dont want it to be OUR Prince.

All the points you are pointig out are highly subjective.

This post is really a result of zero facts and just guessing.

You only make assumptions.

Mintchip said:

Maybe in his late years Prince was a functioning drug addict but what he was taking was not necessarily going to make him act irrationally or off the cuff. AOA for me was his best album in years, and he continued to mentor great young artists so generously. Prince's music was superb till the end and he seemed to be a very relaxed human being at 57. It's the just the tragegy of taking drugs and in his case he just took a too strong amount without knowing. I think that Prince so was so massive and experienced at his age he didnt really make mistakes any more with his business.

Mintchip said:

We’ll obviously never know, and believe what we want. I think, given the facts of his death, and the nature of his life, the OP is asking fair questions, which will linger and multiply as time goes on. It was, for me, one of the tragedies of his death - that the myth of the hyper productive / how did he do it? / does he even sleep? sober-minded genius would be questioned. . Another fact: for someone stone cold sober, he sure sang about (not doing) drugs a lot. After sex, love, god, music, and dancing - probably about as much as he mentioned money. Pretty often, for something he never touched or needed. How often do you, who have never touched drugs, find yourself talking about doing it or not doing it? . The first time I ever suspected anything truly drug-related was when I heard the lyrics to “clouds”. The use of clouds as a means of getting high is just too insidery for me to call it a coincidence. I joked about how he’s able to stay awake for all those after shows.

People read, study and write books upon books about serial killers and criminals of the worst kind. That doesn't mean they're interested in actually becoming one or even dabbling in those activities.

OperatingThetan said:

None. You're referring to the artistic temperament.

Co-sign

Mintchip said:

IstenSzek said:

what people seem to forget is that his band members were also awake for the rehearsal,
the soundcheck, the main show and the aftershow.

and they were mere mortals oh wait i guess they were all on drugs, too.

Again, everyone’s going to see what they want. I know you’re going for a sarcastic sidewinder there, but the point of the whole debate is that everyone actually was mortal, right? I mean, if that’s what you want me to argue, I think I win. The musicians were in the band for three or four years, then bounced. Often by him, often on their own, precisely because the environment was so demanding, mysterious, one of a kind, and impenetrable. They adapted to his schedule. Their presence doesn’t prove or disprove anything.

Agree. One thing we do know is that, for the vast majority of people, such sleep conditions are bad for the health of the brain, and for health in general. Not a glamorous or smart situation with regard to sleep. The opposite.

IstenSzek said:

Mintchip said:

We’ll obviously never know, and believe what we want. I think, given the facts of his death, and the nature of his life, the OP is asking fair questions, which will linger and multiply as time goes on. It was, for me, one of the tragedies of his death - that the myth of the hyper productive / how did he do it? / does he even sleep? sober-minded genius would be questioned. . Another fact: for someone stone cold sober, he sure sang about (not doing) drugs a lot. After sex, love, god, music, and dancing - probably about as much as he mentioned money. Pretty often, for something he never touched or needed. How often do you, who have never touched drugs, find yourself talking about doing it or not doing it? . The first time I ever suspected anything truly drug-related was when I heard the lyrics to “clouds”. The use of clouds as a means of getting high is just too insidery for me to call it a coincidence. I joked about how he’s able to stay awake for all those after shows.

what people seem to forget is that his band members were also awake for the rehearsal,
the soundcheck, the main show and the aftershow.

and they were mere mortals oh wait i guess they were all on drugs, too.

why are you contributing to this thread if you disagree with the subject matter & the poster? seriously dude..go away.

nextedition said:

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

Mods happy for you to lock this up BUT i think its a very valid point to debate?

Thus far I think we can comfortably summise that P used drugs for pain relief for many years. The use of which grew & ended with its tragic & inevitable conclusion. I now wonder how much his commercial, artistic & creative decisons were driven / influenced by drugs in general & gave us a journey of frustration & pure joy in equal measure. Specifically I am thinking about:

the name change

bad commercial decsions on singles / lack of videos

treatment of staff inc engineers / band mates etc - who oft noted his huge mood swings

his intense ability to work lonnnng hours & expect the same from others...was his stamina driven by drugs?

Bat shit crazy / genius songs - Wedding Song surely was from a bad trip!

Endless projects started & stopped

etc

The thought of his creative genius being somehow influenced by drugs upsets me greatly...yes it helped the Beatles & I guess countless others BUT I dont want it to be OUR Prince.

All the points you are pointig out are highly subjective.

This post is really a result of zero facts and just guessing.

You only make assumptions.

you make a very fair point...but will emphasise again that it's all about reevaluation of a relationship...no different to any other person who has expereinced a loss be it through death, seperation etc.

SkipperLove said:

I do think he worked harder than anyone I have ever heard of. He burned people out and I think he knew sometimes when folks were starting to get burned out but he couldn't stop himself from working that hard. Getting high or even avoiding his issues was rarely in the early days the reason for using..IMO. I don't think he liked the idea of drugs, was ashamed of him and didn't glamorize them or mystify them. I think he hated that he had to turn to them to keep going as a musician/rock star (whether the drugs were used as a bit of chemical courage, or to deal with pain issues, or to keep working or to combat anxiety or all of the above). But I hope the drugs don't define him in his entirety. I have been listening to and watcing his music/performances tonight (stuff in the 90's/2000's/2010's mostly) and the guy was still sharp on stage not just as a musician but as a band leader, rock star, and wit). So, I don't think he was high 24/7 or used to such an extent that he was loopy all the time (at least in his earlier days there were rare instances of loopy behavior.) . The drugs were a component of him, but not the entirety of him. I think his behavior that maybe even he didn't understand might have come from drug usage. I think maybe his paranoia might have increased when he was coming down from stuff. But a lot of his eccentricity was his own.

Mintchip said:

IstenSzek said: Again, everyone’s going to see what they want. I know you’re going for a sarcastic sidewinder there, but the point of the whole debate is that everyone actually was mortal, right? I mean, if that’s what you want me to argue, I think I win. The musicians were in the band for three or four years, then bounced. Often by him, often on their own, precisely because the environment was so demanding, mysterious, one of a kind, and impenetrable. They adapted to his schedule. Their presence doesn’t prove or disprove anything.

[Edited 7/27/18 21:53pm]

[Edited 7/27/18 21:58pm]

[Edited 7/27/18 22:01pm]

The drugs were a component of him, but not the entirety of him. I think his behavior that maybe even he didn't understand might have come from drug usage. I think maybe his paranoia might have increased when he was coming down from stuff. But a lot of his eccentricity was his own.

Skipper basically summing up the whole thread & point. Thank you.

thedance said:

So just to be clear, anything Prince ever did that we don't like, every questionable decision he ever made, we're just going to chalk up to "drugs" now?

GTFOOHWTBSYFRC!!

littlemissG said:

thedance said:

Oh what a sad thread..

ps to me being in pain and taking medicin to find peace,

that's not drug addiction (imho)

P wasn't a drug addict, shame shame shame on those who think so

Addiction is not a moral failing. It serves no one not to call it what it was- An Addiction. Part of the problem is the perception that if it’s prescription it’s ok.

Exactly. The idea that addiction, in and of itself, is a moral failing is dangerous. Sometimes deadly.

djThunderfunk said:

So just to be clear, anything Prince ever did that we don't like, every questionable decision he ever made, we're just going to chalk up to "drugs" now?

GTFOOHWTBSYFRC!!

nope...bad/bat shit crazy decisions influenced by addiction. Perfectly valid question...instead of attacking use some logic, sit back , reflect & think.

littlemissG said:

thedance said:

Oh what a sad thread..

ps to me being in pain and taking medicin to find peace,

that's not drug addiction (imho)

P wasn't a drug addict, shame shame shame on those who think so

Addiction is not a moral failing. It serves no one not to call it what it was- An Addiction. Part of the problem is the perception that if it’s prescription it’s ok.

whether Class A or prescription my thoughts are the same...ie huge empathy for him for suffereing & not willing to seek help....truly sad that his state of mind/pride/arrogance would allow himself to suffer so much.

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

IstenSzek said:

what people seem to forget is that his band members were also awake for the rehearsal,
the soundcheck, the main show and the aftershow.

and they were mere mortals oh wait i guess they were all on drugs, too.

why are you contributing to this thread if you disagree with the subject matter & the poster? seriously dude..go away.

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

djThunderfunk said:

don't know what's worse, the thread itself or the people actually responding to this thread