This does pertain to Prince, even though I am going to talk briefly about someone else. Michelle Pfieffer. So please don't move me to another spot. I am trying to draw comparisons here.

ANyhow, this is what Pfeiffer said recently about herself. (Pfeiffer, as you might know, is immensely talented, beautiful, and introverted and it turns out (according to her own assessment) a control freak. Read the quote and if you want you can discuss whether it could equally apply to Prince himself and if he had done some of the stuff she did, he would have been a happier, healthier man.

She said after going to therapy, she learned something about herself.. her words..

"I was kind of surprised to learn how controlling I am. I never thought of myself in that way. I think the root of the control issues is usually fear, because you want to know what's going to be happening at any given moment. So learning to accept and get comfortable with the unknown. I've gotten much better at that," Pfeiffer said, citing her kids as a major source of her progress. "I think children teach you that, too. Because you just can't control them — the more you try, the more you make matters worse. Having children has changed me more than anything."

Well, perhaps. I have never read about him ever going to any kind of "Therapy" though. Unless you want to discount the lyrics in "Let's go Crazy" were he mentions "Dr. Everything B Alright."

Kind of disses the practice of having your mind looked into on that one! Maybe it would have done him some good, but it doesn't sound to me like he was a fan of it. Never was allowed the blessing of raising children either..................

I don't think Prince had issues with himself being controlling, I think he rather enjoyed it.

I am sure at times he loved it. Don't get me wrong. WHo doesn't like things their way? But I can't help but think at times that he was a bit too obsessed with controlling every personal scenario there was. I don't think he 'worried' about being too controlling because men are not really supposed to feel that way according to societal standards (women are more pressured into thinking its wrong for themselves to be controlling), but he exhausted himself trying to control everything so I am not sure it was really good for him. Paranoia is usually the product of the fear of things slipping out of one's hands.

PennyPurple said:

I don't think Prince had issues with himself being controlling, I think he rather enjoyed it.

[Edited 7/24/18 21:00pm]

Seahorsie said:

Well, perhaps. I have never read about him ever going to any kind of "Therapy" though. Unless you want to discount the lyrics in "Let's go Crazy" were he mentions "Dr. Everything B Alright."

Kind of disses the practice of having your mind looked into on that one! Maybe it would have done him some good, but it doesn't sound to me like he was a fan of it. Never was allowed the blessing of raising children either..................

Psycho-analysis is referred to in "Face Down" (lyrics and video).
I'm pretty sure he went under one.
At these stardom levels, you have to
if you want to keep yourself grounded.

PennyPurple said:

I don't think Prince had issues with himself being controlling, I think he rather enjoyed it.

A sociopath he was not.

Michelle Pfeiffer is an Enneagram type 6 - one of the 3 "Head" types. Their driving force is Fear. Everything they do is fear-based. They are the people that will check 10 times if they turned the oven off, they constantly worry about things that could go wrong, they are insecure, they need rules to police life (most police people are indeed also Sixes). Contraphobic Sixes will rebel and attack those rules - the other side of fear.

This stems from a childhood where they didn't feel was security. As adults they will try to control the circumstances in order to "create" security and find relief.



Prince is an Enneagram type 4 - which is one of the 3 "Heart" types, also called "Image" types. Their driving force is Shame. They were the children who were not mirrored, not wanted, not seen, not loved for what they are but what they represent or accomplish. The parents were not present, and these kids never learned to trust. They have a hard time truly relating to others, they find it hard to make friends and people seem to feel and signal them that they are not like them and don't belong.

They experience themselves as "lacking", as "false", as "being without identity" and this is what they get reflected back from others. They cover up for their lifelong feeling of shame by creating one or many images. In their youth they experiment with this, putting on images like costumes, trying to find the most convincing one. The one that feels like "home". The older they grow and the more they feel people believe and support that image, the more they believe that "This is me", "This is my identity".

They are able to self-reflect and they have deep feelings, however, their shame does not allow them to shake that house of cards. They will try to control themselves and to control how others perceive them.

So, his "control freak" comes from a whole different motivation than Pfeiffer's.

Enneagrams are baloney pseudoscience, New Age bollocks.

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It's easy to see that the divisions are rather arbitrary, with a large dash of vagueness and overlap between the categories. Like any personality test, the more vague it is, the more susceptible to the Forer effect it is. The enneagram is not generally considered to be of any value by mainstream psychologists.

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https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Enneagram

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I really don't get why the Org allows this nonsense (as well as astrology and card reading and people who think they've received messages from Prince after his death etc.).

To me, there is an overlap between shame and fear. Shame is almost a form of embarassment crossed with guilt. Embarassmant is a form of fear (especially when you are proactively trying to avoid embarassment from happening.)

CatB said:

Michelle Pfeiffer is an Enneagram type 6 - one of the 3 "Head" types. Their driving force is Fear. Everything they do is fear-based. They are the people that will check 10 times if they turned the oven off, they constantly worry about things that could go wrong, they are insecure, they need rules to police life (most police people are indeed also Sixes). Contraphobic Sixes will rebel and attack those rules - the other side of fear.

This stems from a childhood where they didn't feel was security. As adults they will try to control the circumstances in order to "create" security and find relief.



Prince is an Enneagram type 4 - which is one of the 3 "Heart" types, also called "Image" types. Their driving force is Shame. They were the children who were not mirrored, not wanted, not seen, not loved for what they are but what they represent or accomplish. The parents were not present, and these kids never learned to trust. They have a hard time truly relating to others, they find it hard to make friends and people seem to feel and signal them that they are not like them and don't belong.

They experience themselves as "lacking", as "false", as "being without identity" and this is what they get reflected back from others. They cover up for their lifelong feeling of shame by creating one or many images. In their youth they experiment with this, putting on images like costumes, trying to find the most convincing one. The one that feels like "home". The older they grow and the more they feel people believe and support that image, the more they believe that "This is me", "This is my identity".

They are able to self-reflect and they have deep feelings, however, their shame does not allow them to shake that house of cards. They will try to control themselves and to control how others perceive them.

So, his "control freak" comes from a whole different motivation than Pfeiffer's.

Well, not in the enneagram. And also outside any system Prince's personality and actions were never based in fear.

SkipperLove said:

To me, there is an overlap between shame and fear. Shame is almost a form of embarassment crossed with guilt. Embarassmant is a form of fear (especially when you are proactively trying to avoid embarassment from happening.)

CatB said:

Michelle Pfeiffer is an Enneagram type 6 - one of the 3 "Head" types. Their driving force is Fear. Everything they do is fear-based. They are the people that will check 10 times if they turned the oven off, they constantly worry about things that could go wrong, they are insecure, they need rules to police life (most police people are indeed also Sixes). Contraphobic Sixes will rebel and attack those rules - the other side of fear.

This stems from a childhood where they didn't feel was security. As adults they will try to control the circumstances in order to "create" security and find relief.



Prince is an Enneagram type 4 - which is one of the 3 "Heart" types, also called "Image" types. Their driving force is Shame. They were the children who were not mirrored, not wanted, not seen, not loved for what they are but what they represent or accomplish. The parents were not present, and these kids never learned to trust. They have a hard time truly relating to others, they find it hard to make friends and people seem to feel and signal them that they are not like them and don't belong.

They experience themselves as "lacking", as "false", as "being without identity" and this is what they get reflected back from others. They cover up for their lifelong feeling of shame by creating one or many images. In their youth they experiment with this, putting on images like costumes, trying to find the most convincing one. The one that feels like "home". The older they grow and the more they feel people believe and support that image, the more they believe that "This is me", "This is my identity".

They are able to self-reflect and they have deep feelings, however, their shame does not allow them to shake that house of cards. They will try to control themselves and to control how others perceive them.

So, his "control freak" comes from a whole different motivation than Pfeiffer's.

Everybody has fear. Prince may not have feared for his musical prowess, sexual attractiveness, etc. But your definition of shame still feels like fear of being exposed as less, fear of oneself in one's native state, fear of the fakeness of others, fear of being duped or mislead, fear of being abandoned.. Fear is general. Shame is specific. But I see a ton of overlap.

CatB said:

Well, not in the enneagram. And also outside any system Prince's personality and actions were never based in fear.

SkipperLove said:

To me, there is an overlap between shame and fear. Shame is almost a form of embarassment crossed with guilt. Embarassmant is a form of fear (especially when you are proactively trying to avoid embarassment from happening.)

[Edited 7/25/18 4:14am]

[Edited 7/25/18 4:16am]

To agree to disagree. In psychology fear is a whole different motivation and driving factor than shame.

Yes, everyone's afraid of things. But that it not the same as fear. A fear-based character is a whole different matter.

Prince was not a fear-based character at all.

SkipperLove said:

Everybody has fear. Prince may not have feared for his musical prowess, sexual attractiveness, etc. But your definition of shame still feels like fear of being exposed as less, fear of oneself in one's native state, fear of the fakeness of others, fear of being duped or mislead, fear of being abandoned.. Fear is general. Shame is specific. But I see a ton of overlap.

CatB said:

Well, not in the enneagram. And also outside any system Prince's personality and actions were never based in fear.

[Edited 7/25/18 4:14am]

[Edited 7/25/18 4:16am]

If you are talking about unreasonable, crippling fear of things going wrong, then he probably wasn't that at all--especially not when you knew him. Although there is evidence of paranoia in Prince's past, that paranoia is rooted in some reality. But then again, some of his paranoia seemed pretty over the top. So, maybe he had a little bit of both.

I still think fear (or being "afraid" for a lack of a better word) is associated with shame, even if shame is ultimately what drives the fear. I'll shut up now. Thanks for the discussion.

CatB said:

To agree to disagree. In psychology fear is a whole different motivation and driving factor than shame.

Yes, everyone's afraid of things. But that it not the same as fear. A fear-based character is a whole different matter.

Prince was not a fear-based character at all.

SkipperLove said:

Everybody has fear. Prince may not have feared for his musical prowess, sexual attractiveness, etc. But your definition of shame still feels like fear of being exposed as less, fear of oneself in one's native state, fear of the fakeness of others, fear of being duped or mislead, fear of being abandoned.. Fear is general. Shame is specific. But I see a ton of overlap.

[Edited 7/25/18 4:14am]

[Edited 7/25/18 4:16am]

[Edited 7/25/18 4:52am]

[Edited 7/25/18 4:59am]

CatB said:

CatB said:

margi said:

CatB said:

Michelle Pfeiffer is an Enneagram type 6 - one of the 3 "Head" types. Their driving force is Fear. Everything they do is fear-based. They are the people that will check 10 times if they turned the oven off, they constantly worry about things that could go wrong, they are insecure, they need rules to police life (most police people are indeed also Sixes). Contraphobic Sixes will rebel and attack those rules - the other side of fear.

This stems from a childhood where they didn't feel was security. As adults they will try to control the circumstances in order to "create" security and find relief.



Prince is an Enneagram type 4 - which is one of the 3 "Heart" types, also called "Image" types. Their driving force is Shame. They were the children who were not mirrored, not wanted, not seen, not loved for what they are but what they represent or accomplish. The parents were not present, and these kids never learned to trust. They have a hard time truly relating to others, they find it hard to make friends and people seem to feel and signal them that they are not like them and don't belong.

They experience themselves as "lacking", as "false", as "being without identity" and this is what they get reflected back from others. They cover up for their lifelong feeling of shame by creating one or many images. In their youth they experiment with this, putting on images like costumes, trying to find the most convincing one. The one that feels like "home". The older they grow and the more they feel people believe and support that image, the more they believe that "This is me", "This is my identity".

They are able to self-reflect and they have deep feelings, however, their shame does not allow them to shake that house of cards. They will try to control themselves and to control how others perceive them.

So, his "control freak" comes from a whole different motivation than Pfeiffer's.

What a load of bullocks. Where did you get your degree? Prince was a genius......look that up and see how well he fits that scenario. What does Pfeiffer have to do with a musical genius? Ofcourse he controlled his career as does any other successful person.Obviously you have never strived to succeed in anything you do or you wouldn't comment such rubbish.

Um, what?

I suggest you take a and read again. Instead of overreacting and making an idiot of yourself you might see that it wasn't me who brought up Michelle Pfeiffer and the comparison to Prince. You will find that what I wrote is to say that his control freak did not come from the same motivation as Pfeiffer's,


And who or what are you to be able to say what I have or haven't done? Really, some people.

Seahorsie said:

Seahorsie said:

Interesting...this is your second control thread in as many weeks. What exactly is the draw? You're not new either, fresh start?