databank said:

RODSERLING said:

I'm sorry but you're terribly wrong. At the time of the PR deluxe release, the original version (vinyl + CD) already sold 41.000 copies (including at the time 28.000 on vinyl !). So your vague figure of "120.000 after two months" take this into account.

.

CATALOG ALBUMS WEEK 25

Rank - Estimated 2017 Sales - TITLE - Artist ( Estimated Total Sales )
48 - 41,000* - PURPLE RAIN - Prince & the Revolution ( 3,610,000 )
.

Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:41 pm ALBUM SALES WEEK 31

Rank - Estimated 2017 Sales - TITLE - Artist ( Estimated Total Sales )
49 - 120,000 - PURPLE RAIN - Prince & the Revolution ( 3,689,000 )

.

2017 Year End Album Sales Chart USA

64. 171,000 - PURPLE RAIN - Prince & the Revolution ( 3,740,000 ).

[Edited 6/9/18 2:39am]

I didn't know that.

On the other hand it could be argued that with the peak of sales PR knew after Prince passed, to be added to those 15 or 20M folks who had purchased it between 1984 and 2016, sales had to suffer: it's not every casual Prince listener who was gonna buy it again just for obscure outtakes, b-sides and edits. Obviously, 41,000 copies of a 1984 album in the first semester of 2017 is an extraordinary amount. So I would say the timing was poor: WB just tried to resell a record that every new fan had just already purchased in the wake of P's death.

So in the end IDK what it says about potential sales of any other potential reissue, because it appears the sales of PR Deluxe suffered from the sales of PR between April 2016 and June 2017.

Now IDK, I ain't in the head of those WB execs and IDK what sort of sales figures they expect from a reissue. The Beatles is NOT a good comparison example. The Beatles, like MJ and maybe Elvis are in another category entirely.

Bad timing , for sure. It should have been released in 2014 for the 30th anniversary ; or the weeks following Prince's death. Ideally, they should have done a deal in 2004, it would have sold millions at the time.

.

I thought about PR already sold lots of amount in 2016, but the Sgt Peppers album had many reissues in the past, including the 2009 reissue. Since 2009, Sgt Peppers sold 2 millions while PR 1 million, so this argument can't work. By the way, it was the first reissue EVER of a Prince album, so it should have been a great event.

.

Purple RAin is in the same category of the Beatles in the US : PR and SGT PEPPERS sold at least 15 millions each, and surely PR is beating it..

feeluupp said:

Kares said:

.
The bottom line is: quality still sells. If a release is put together professionally, with amazing sound, tons of extra material and gorgeous packaging, like the Sgt Pepper's box set was, it will sell well even at 5x the price of PR Deluxe.
.
If something is thrown together using material sourced from cassette tapes, in a cheap digipak with a poor quality booklet, it will be a flop – and indeed, PR Deluxe was a flop. No surprises there.
.
So in case a 1999 Deluxe or a Parade Deluxe would be put together professionally and with such care as the Sgt Pepper's box set was, it could actually sell a lot better than that disgraceful PR Deluxe.
.

... Remember how we had the photographer who did the booklet for PR DELUXE post here before it's release hyping the packet up, yet there was only one new photo we have never seen... I thought they could've done much better with PR DELUXE being that is his biggest selling album... But I'm just really wondering who has the last say and chosing these releases because surely it is not the fans.

.
Absolutely, they could've and should've done much better. PR Deluxe is just a very poor job: bad sound quality, poor packaging and poor marketing. But of course there are explanations for all this. The bad remastering of the album itself was Prince's fault. Sourcing the outtakes from cassette copies was the result of the legal limbo around the estate, Warners simply didn't have access to the vault tapes at that point so they've resorted to using whatever demo cassettes they had in their drawers. The poor packaging and marketing were probably results of Warner knowing that this will be a sub par release so they didn't want to invest more in it, which is sort of understandable.
.
I simply wouldn't have released PR Deluxe until I had access to the masters and could've done an amazing job at it, the kind of real high quality, full-blown box set that project would've deserved. I would've just released a live set with 3-4 FULL shows of the Piano & Microphone tour, including a full length BluRay video of his last concert.
.

feeluupp said:

databank said:

Mmmh... Maybe I'm confusing you with someone else, I'm sorry. I thought I remembered we had huge fights back when Prince was alive because of those weekly "Prince is over and done thread", and that you had allied yourself with that other dude who hates me to flame me. Apologies if it wasn't you, I sometimes confuse orgers.

Naw deff wasn't me... Just go through my posts on search... I don't get involved with those type of threads. I do remember there was always someone argueing with ROD whenever ROD would post the sales figures of an upcoming Prince album and say it would be a flop everytime a new release would come...

It wasn't ROD either I'm pretty sure, at least we didn't get into regular fights I'm pretty sure of that. Sorry again. The culprit must be gone (most of those anti-Prince trolls nearly disappeared since he passed).

Another Orger said it earlier and I agree this is a boring release - forget this "I am happy for anything" response. Prince is a genius and I am sure this will be beautifully executed but at the end of the day it is a piano and microphone recording. The Estate has access to some of the most important and exciting music of the 20th Century and it is understandable that some would feel after 2 years this release is "underwhelming". Don't you wanna hear perfect studio versions of Prince's "G Spot", "Heaven" and "Baby You're A Trip"?

[Edited 6/9/18 3:15am]

udo said:

RODSERLING said:

So the perspectives of a lesser known album are so weak that's it's becoming ridiculous.

.

So the Estate is a lot less valuable than what everybopdy thinks.

Because what margin is there on tehse rissues?

What margin is there on 'new' old material?

Count with 250K albums (single disc) per release and do the math.

What is the actual value?

A quick calculation comes down at ~15 million fiat dollars when they get 1 dollar per disc and do 20 reissue albums and some vault stuff each selling 250K copies.

You can double the money when they get 2 dollars and so on.

.

Better sell them tapes to them b00tleggars in one lump sum and be done with it because at this rate the heirs will never be 'rich'.

.

Or did I make the wrong assumptions?

Please explain.

Hey, I'm the first to think they sould have released reissue of all his albums. PRdeluxe was fine for me, I always wanted that from every WB Prince albums. But they should have done this a long time ago.

.

Moreover, they spent 3 years making the PR deluxe since its original announcement. You can't release 20 reissue albums of this type (3 CD +dvd + booklet) in a short amount of time. Not with the state of Prince sales. Not with incompetents like that.

.

Piano and Microphone is a better bet. Only 1 track to remasterise, already existing, and completely unreleased. Moreover as I explained, the album is very short, and so more streaming-able than a 80 minutes reedition of 1999 deluxe. Streaming = sales = charts rankings = the shit now.

Sydney said:

Another Orger said it earlier and I agree this is a boring release - forget this "I am happy for anything" response. Prince is a genius and I am sure this will be beautifully executed but at the end of the day it is a piano and microphone recording. The Estate has access to some of the most important and exciting music of the 20th Century and it is understandable that some would feel after 2 years this release is "underwhelming". Don't you wanna hear perfect studio versions of Prince's "G Spot", "Heaven" and "Baby You're A Trip"?

[Edited 6/9/18 3:15am]

Not necessarily any more than a perfect sounding version of Intimate Moments. I think the only way they could really blow my mind at this point would be with a well compiled complete album of entirely unheard studio tracks. IDK, I have so much Prince music already that I don't really care anymore what they do as long as they don't mutilate the material they release by tinkering it.

.

Now that's just me, any release whatsoever will make people more or less happy. The only way to please everyone would be an online store with an album's worth of material added every month. Up until they do that the fact that so little has to be chosen from so much will inevitably make any choice they make frustrating to half the fans out here.

feeluupp said:

RODSERLING said:

1st week sales in the US of the vinyl, cassette, CD and deluxe version was 48.000...The only deluxe numbers are only between 33 and 37.000 copies.Truth hurts.

.

7/15 Billboard 200:

http://www.billboard.com/...bums-chart

DJ Khaled's 'Grateful' Debuts at No. 1 on Billboard 200 Albums Chart
7/2/2017 by Keith Caulfield

Prince and the Revolution’s Purple Rain soundtrack, first released in 1984, re-enters the list straight in at No. 4, following its deluxe remastered reissue on June 23. The album — combining all versions of Purple Rain, past and present — earned 52,000 units in the tracking frame (of which 48,000 were in traditional album sales). The set collected a 3,633 percent gain in units for the week, and a 4,767 percent leap in album sales.

.

http://hitsdailydouble.co...;id=307208

Tuesday, June 27, 2017

TOP 20: DEAD HEAT

In one of the tightest races we’ve seen, DJ Khaled and Imagine Dragons are in a dead heat for #1 on Friday’s SPS chart. Stay tuned for updates on this battle. The Expanded Edition of Prince’s Purple Rain is poised for a Top 5 debut.

5. *Prince (Warner Bros.) 33-37k

What were the sale figures for PRINCE4EVER?

In U.K. it went GOLD indicating over 100,000 copies, but what were the rest of the sales, would be interesting to know...

2017 Year End Album Sales Chart US (pure sales)

145. 103,000 - 4EVER - Prince ( 170,000 )

.

With streaming :

ALBUM RAW SPS WEEK 52

Rank - Estimated EAS - TITLE - Artist
176- 249,000 - 4EVER - Prince

.

Never charted in any charts in 2018, it sold 3000 by mid february, so about 500 copies/ week. .So in pure sales 180.000 copies in the US. With streaming...more than 300.000.

.

It's a strenght seller in the Uk since its gold certification in may 2017, so I would say like in the US about 180.000 copies (sales + streaming)

[Edited 6/9/18 3:31am]

RODSERLING said:

SoulAlive said:

RODSERLING said: Bull! More people would definitely be more interested in a 1999 Deluxe Edition than a 1983 rehearsal tape of Prince on piano.You are also wrong when you say that the PR Deluxe was a flop.It actually sold very well. ... [Edited 6/8/18 16:50pm]

That's not true.

.

Let's do some maths : in 2016 in the USA PR sold 497.000, while 1999 sold 165.000, exactly 3 times less.

In the rest of the world, PR sold 200.000 while 1999 50.000. 4 times less.

.

In 2017 PR sold 171.000 copies, including 58.000 of the vinyl version, 30.000 of the regular CD, 2000 of the audio cassette (!) and only 81.000 of the deluxe version.

.

Worldwide the PR reissue was a flop, not selling even 10.000 copies in France. I wouldsay globally in 2017 the reissue sold maybe 130.000 copies.

So, no need to be a mathematics genius to do the maths : with luck, 1999 could reach 3 times less globally than PR deluxe, that is to say about 45.000 worldwide.

.

The SGT PEPPERS reissue, released a few weeks before PR reissue, sold 275.000 in the US alone and was a major seller globally, reaching top 5 in 18 countries, despite being priced more than the PR Deluxe.

PR deluxe was top 10 in only 4 countries...And Purple Rain is supposed to be a huge trademark, unlike 1999 that sold in anglo-saxon countries.

.

Piano and A microphone has chances to sell more than 45.000 the year of release, while costing less in term of production for WB.

.

If you still don't believe these numbers and their consequences : let's consider this : if from their point of view PR deluxe sold well, do you really believe they wouldn' t have released 1999 deluxe ? Why wouldn't they want to make money ? It's because even PR deluxe was a flop, and many orgers here didn't even buy it. So the perspectives of a lesser known album are so weak that's it's becoming ridiculous.

Certainly seems that PR sales weren't mindblowing. And, from that, it would seem fair for a label to settle on a strategy of targeting the core fanbase for future releases. That seems plausible. But I don't see that it follows from that that tarting up an obscure old bootleg unintended for release is the most lucrative way to tap that market. That seems like playing to the niche of the niche. A well-curated set of first-generation copies of previously bootlegged 'fan favourites, or a 1999 remaster with a second disc, or some pro-shot live shows, etc etc, may well all be niche products in the big wide marketplace, but they'd still surely garner more excitement - and reliable sales - even amongst the limited target audience.

Any difference in 'production costs' must be pretty small beer. Hell, production costs are minimal for reissues in general - hence the reason labels love them. There's no rock star advance to front up, nor an aeon of expensive studio time to buy. And, if the set is to be aimed squarely at a coterie of fans,there's no huge marketing spend. They could even set it at a higher price point, in anticipation of lower overall sales, as we'd all still lap it up.

There's an effort to make this some kind of canny move, when I guess I'm still inclined to see it as a 'best-we-can-do-for-now' job, or an effort to compete with Tidal, using the resources they control - the result of some set of contingencies, rather than part of a grand plan. I take the point that fans should probably lower their expectations, but I suspect there's still money to be made from the rest of the Vault's contents yet.

SquirrelMeat said:

There is probably a simple logic to this choice of release. Purple Rain Deluxe didn't set the world on fire, so, instead of releasing 1999 deluxe, WB are exploring how to exploit maximum sales from a limited hardcore base. This is a test to gauge the fan levels and their limits.

They have picked something obscure, given away as little music as possible, created an expensive bundle without additional music and arranged a very long 'pre-order' period.

Classic marketing to gauge the size of the market and how far they can push it.

Genius maketing. Always annouce around birthday for free marketing. They gave an whole track with forever. 1 extra cd of new music with pr deluxe and now 35 mins of a piano rehersal.

i think it is absolute genius how they have stretched so little so far . Long may it continue. i can seen there being over 1 million new albums in the vault at this rate.

RODSERLING said:

udo said:

Or did I make the wrong assumptions?

Please explain.

Moreover, they spent 3 years making the PR deluxe since its original announcement. You can't release 20 reissue albums of this type (3 CD +dvd + booklet) in a short amount of time. Not with the state of Prince sales. Not with incompetents like that.

.

Yes you can!

If one lowers the price (the 1983 P&M is expen$ive) the release will sell.

Thus counting with a one dollar margin for the Estate looks reasonable. (probbaly the 1983 P&M margin is higher)

Piano and Microphone is a better bet. Only 1 track to remasterise, already existing, and completely unreleased.

.

Completely dpeends on who you ask.

.

Completely unreleased by them becuase the release little at a slow pace for a non-cheap price, usually.

But most of that stuff on 1983 P&M was released years ago.

Check them b00tleggars.

.

Moreover as I explained, the album is very short, and so more streaming-able than a 80 minutes reedition of 1999 deluxe. Streaming = sales = charts rankings = the shit now.

.

Streaming is for millennials.

A stream is not even a download.

So the buyer actually receives nothing that remains.

.

If the Estate (who?) chose this 1983 P&M thing, would they release (some of) the 2016 P&M as a follow up?

Wouldn't that be boring for the general public?

As they will not release the full `tour` (22 shows), can we find as a fact that 'others' already released more than they will ever do?

As the market cannot bear the releases is nosense.

Why do a CD with 35 minutes of audio and a vinyl record with the same music, plus a booklet have to cost more than 40 Euros?

Actual prodution cost of this release is below 10 euros.

So where does the rest go?

For €20 they could have given us a 2CD box with 45+ minutes per disc.

.

So they are the cause of the market being unable to bear these releases.

This means that they do not even understand their own actions related to their understanding of the market.

This means that they are unfit to do that work.

I could do it as bad as they do for half their price.

deebee said:

another reason why the PR deluxe didn't sell as well as it could have is that it was hardly
promoted by warners.

yes, there were 'singles' on spotify. but beyond the press picking up on those and putting
a few articles up, there was nothing coming from warners irrc.

but the main thing is that this was the single 80s prince album that was not in dire need
of a remaster. it sounds just fine the way it was.

to top that off, the remaster was done by an unknown from the prince camp and it does
not sound that good. i still listen to my old purple rain, i have no time for that remaster.

iirc there weren't too many articles or reviews about what a revelation it was to now have
this album and listen to it in all it's remastered glory. because it wasn't that good.

the bonus tracks are great. like them or not, that's just a level of personal taste, but it's
an entire disc full of unknown material (to casual fans at least, and with a few real good
surprises even for us hardcore fans/collectors).

they just promised TWO discs and that was a let down.

so the bit of hyping they did, they over promised and then under delivered.

also there were a few glaring rush job mistakes, like the drop out in Erotic City. that was
just sloppy work.

it goes on and on. there were too many things wrong with it. and yet, despite all that, it's
still a great reissue to own, at least for me. i enjoy the heck out of that bonus disc and i'm
continually listening to it.

i'm sure that goes for a lot of fans, even if it sold 'only' 250,000.

coupled with all the other info we have written by people above, it's safe to assume that
if done correctly and with enough bonus material, all his other albums will sell just as
many units, if not more.

i refuse to believe, for now, that they are NOT putting together those remasters and going
through all the vault material, compiling bonus discs etc etc, right now at this minute.

warners had limited time to publish this stuff, right? there is a contract that is ticking down
to an end date. so they get 1 more shot at doing this right and milk it for all that it's worth.

and that is just from the money perspective. there must also be people involved behind the
scenes who want to provide the best possible documents on prince's recording output that
they can. we're talking about extremely important musical/cultural history here. there must
be those who want to do right by the music and the man.

it would all be so much better to understand it WB would talk a bit about their plans, what
the schedule for future releases might look like, what they are willing to work on, who they
are bringing in etc etc. not hyping up something, just stating facts. that way releases like
this rehearsal might make more sense.

RODSERLING said:

deebee said:

Certainly seems that PR sales weren't mindblowing. And, from that, it would seem fair for a label to settle on a strategy of targeting the core fanbase for future releases. That seems plausible. But I don't see that it follows from that that tarting up an obscure old bootleg unintended for release is the most lucrative way to tap that market. That seems like playing to the niche of the niche. A well-curated set of first-generation copies of previously bootlegged 'fan favourites, or a 1999 remaster with a second disc, or some pro-shot live shows, etc etc, may well all be niche products in the big wide marketplace, but they'd still surely garner more excitement - and reliable sales - even amongst the limited target audience.

Any difference in 'production costs' must be pretty small beer. Hell, production costs are minimal for reissues in general - hence the reason labels love them. There's no rock star advance to front up, nor an aeon of expensive studio time to buy. And, if the set is to be aimed squarely at a coterie of fans,there's no huge marketing spend. They could even set it at a higher price point, in anticipation of lower overall sales, as we'd all still lap it up.

There's an effort to make this some kind of canny move, when I guess I'm still inclined to see it as a 'best-we-can-do-for-now' job, or an effort to compete with Tidal, using the resources they control - the result of some set of contingencies, rather than part of a grand plan. I take the point that fans should probably lower their expectations, but I suspect there's still money to be made from the rest of the Vault's contents yet.

While I m sure the 1999 deluxe would have gone unnoticed, the Piano...1983 Will get, I m sure, rave reviews in spécialised press. I Can see music reviewers in non spécialised press giving great reviews for this intemporal release. Whereas to many, 1999 sounds outdated, and wasted by Prince vocal gimmicks. . I know for sure than in France, it would sold better than the PR deluxe. Look at the Elvis Christmas orchestra release one or two years ago, or the many mtv unplugged that sometimes sell better than studio album.

This ain't the Elvis Christmas orchestra album, though. That one was the sort of thing you could pick up in the supermarket's Seasonal aisle for £10 and give to your dad with a bottle of aftershave. You'd expect the sales to be high; they just have to get it into Joe Public's line of sight at the right moment. This isn't even Prince Unplugged. It's an old cassette copy of Prince amusing himself tickling the ivories. I can imagine decent music writers appreciating its charm and enjoying seeing another side of him, but I can also see it getting reviews along the lines of "an intriguing curio for completists, but inessential for most listeners." (Not that I'm overly concerned what reviewers say, either way.)

Nice to have, nonetheless. I just suspect a more contingent reason why it's first out of the Vault.

[Edited 6/9/18 5:49am]

TrevorAyer said:

this p+m is to deter from the tidal p+m ... typical

.

This 1983 P&M and some 2016 P&M might come out?

udo said:

This 1983 P&M and some 2016 P&M might come out?

.

No.

2016 P&M is on Tidal.

Under what deal is this happening?

udo said:

deebee said:

IstenSzek said:

RODSERLING said:

udo said:

.

Streaming is for millennials.

A stream is not even a download.

So the buyer actually receives nothing that remains.

.

If the Estate (who?) chose this 1983 P&M thing, would they release (some of) the 2016 P&M as a follow up?

Wouldn't that be boring for the general public?

As they will not release the full `tour` (22 shows), can we find as a fact that 'others' already released more than they will ever do?

As the market cannot bear the releases is nosense.

Why do a CD with 35 minutes of audio and a vinyl record with the same music, plus a booklet have to cost more than 40 Euros?

Actual prodution cost of this release is below 10 euros.

So where does the rest go?

For €20 they could have given us a 2CD box with 45+ minutes per disc.

.

So they are the cause of the market being unable to bear these releases.

This means that they do not even understand their own actions related to their understanding of the market.

This means that they are unfit to do that work.

I could do it as bad as they do for half their price.

It s Funny, because I was criticised when I complained about the lenght of the last Prince albums being too short, and now this is all about " only 35 minutes". Shit. How visionnary I was. . This is an utterly new release, juste like PR deluxe. This is not WB fault if you all illegally listened to bootleggs. I have great news for you : you won t fond anything new that what was on the bootleggs anyway. Even if it were 1999 deluxe, you already have this on bootleggs. . Personnally I never listened to bootleggs, it sounds like crap.

35 is short, especially by today's standard, But "For You" and "Dirty Mind" were shorter.

databank said:

I am told that the first gen cassette that was found in the vault is unfortunately the only existing source for this recording. They looked for a multitrack and didn't find one. Regardless, it's much better than the X gen tapes that were used for the bootlegs. And at least this one time they're being honest about their source.

RODSERLING said:

Fortunately, I don't belong to the sad listeners bootleg community, so this would be all new for me.

WTF is the "sad listeners bootleg community"? Bootleg collector's are no more on the same page regarding this release as any other fans. Our opinions vary greatly, it's nonsense to to put us all in one "sad" box.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

RODSERLING said:

Personnally I never listened to bootleggs, it sounds like crap.

Some sound like crap. Some sound WORSE than crap.... and some sound FANTASTIC.

And everything in between.

djThunderfunk said:

NorthC said:

Not only that, you must have listened to them before you can say anything about the sound!

but the released song has hiss throughout... still a nice piece but not earth-shattering or mind-blowing.

I will buy it... I just fear it will not sell well and that will impact future releases.

udo said:

udo said:

This 1983 P&M and some 2016 P&M might come out?

.

No.

2016 P&M is on Tidal.

Are you talking to yourself?

In any case, that link is definitely not 2016 P&M -- it's a link to a playlist of the studio recordings that were on the set list.

Nah...seriously how can we be happy with a such crappy release....WBR & The Estate are jokers & surely are laughing as much they can because they know that we are fools & buy this unnecessary recording...soon they will release Prince in the toilets making Music !

Damned double times !!

PS> Since few years HENDRIX family made better better choices for the unreleased material they choose to release

[Edited 6/9/18 9:07am]