mediumdry said:

CherryMoon57 said:

You're forgetting that these are metaphoric lines, not a factual documentary.

.

While that is true, it insinuates that not sending people to the moon could have an impact on the sisters live. To the point that she would not have had to kill her baby (it was suggested this was alluding to an abortion, but abortions are never killing babies, anyone saying that has an agenda), which is simply nonsense.

.

By the way, I don't know many people that would kill their child... if you cannot feed it, give it up for adoption or find some other way. If you get found out, there is a hefty penalty for murder...

I think Prince's point about killing the baby - whether that was his view about abortion, or he was refering to the "sister" actually killing the baby out of desperation due to poverty - the message was that the money that had been spent by the Government on the space shuttle program, which had just ended in disaster the year prior, could have been used to support financial aid for those families in need.

TheKid94 said:

I agree, any live rendition of '87 is the shit. I love the guitar solo that bleeds into the lead line 👌👌👌 [Edited 6/1/18 4:25am]

Just watched his performance on the '87 MTV Music Awards. He did SOTT and Play In The Sunshine. Definitely my favorite live version of SOTT. I read that Cat said that was her favorite as well.

violetcrush said:

mediumdry said:

.

While that is true, it insinuates that not sending people to the moon could have an impact on the sisters live. To the point that she would not have had to kill her baby (it was suggested this was alluding to an abortion, but abortions are never killing babies, anyone saying that has an agenda), which is simply nonsense.

.

By the way, I don't know many people that would kill their child... if you cannot feed it, give it up for adoption or find some other way. If you get found out, there is a hefty penalty for murder...

I think Prince's point about killing the baby - whether that was his view about abortion, or he was refering to the "sister" actually killing the baby out of desperation due to poverty - the message was that the money that had been spent by the Government on the space shuttle program, which had just ended in disaster the year prior, could have been used to support financial aid for those families in need.

YES THAT

violetcrush said:

I think Prince's point about killing the baby - whether that was his view about abortion, or he was refering to the "sister" actually killing the baby out of desperation due to poverty - the message was that the money that had been spent by the Government on the space shuttle program, which had just ended in disaster the year prior, could have been used to support financial aid for those families in need.

.

Like I said, there isn't much that's similar between how a rocket operates and how an airplane does (although the space shuttle did have some airplane techniques for the return trip, but not propulsion)

I understand that Prince might have written with that disaster in mind, as it happened less than half a year before he recorded the song. That doesn't change the fact that he says that somehow the disaster of one thing should influence usage of another unrelated thing. It's silly.

.

The spending on the space program would not have done much to support families in need. For that, you'd want to take from the big pile and make cuts on the military. It might also stop the US from making the rest of the world a worse place to live in. (but please clean up behind yourselves)

PeteSilas said:

my stepdad is a perfect example of how thoughts can be addictive, he never had a problem with any substance but he was obsessive (like me) and would just go on and on and on about things. I'm the same way, if thougts are a drug, i'm hooked and most of the time, the obsessions are things that don't make my life better, just make me more bitter and angry.

.

I don't understand any of what you're saying. I never keep flogging a dead horse.

mediumdry said:

violetcrush said:

I think Prince's point about killing the baby - whether that was his view about abortion, or he was refering to the "sister" actually killing the baby out of desperation due to poverty - the message was that the money that had been spent by the Government on the space shuttle program, which had just ended in disaster the year prior, could have been used to support financial aid for those families in need.

.

Like I said, there isn't much that's similar between how a rocket operates and how an airplane does (although the space shuttle did have some airplane techniques for the return trip, but not propulsion)

I understand that Prince might have written with that disaster in mind, as it happened less than half a year before he recorded the song. That doesn't change the fact that he says that somehow the disaster of one thing should influence usage of another unrelated thing. It's silly.

.

The spending on the space program would not have done much to support families in need. For that, you'd want to take from the big pile and make cuts on the military. It might also stop the US from making the rest of the world a worse place to live in. (but please clean up behind yourselves)

Are you kidding.....???

The space programme has cost TRILLIONs

Compared to that Military spending is boobskas !

and WHAT has the Space Programme

Done for this planet

???

In REAL TERMS ?

what ??

[Edited 6/7/18 1:11am]

[Edited 6/7/18 1:15am]

Lovejunky said:

mediumdry said:

.

Like I said, there isn't much that's similar between how a rocket operates and how an airplane does (although the space shuttle did have some airplane techniques for the return trip, but not propulsion)

I understand that Prince might have written with that disaster in mind, as it happened less than half a year before he recorded the song. That doesn't change the fact that he says that somehow the disaster of one thing should influence usage of another unrelated thing. It's silly.

.

The spending on the space program would not have done much to support families in need. For that, you'd want to take from the big pile and make cuts on the military. It might also stop the US from making the rest of the world a worse place to live in. (but please clean up behind yourselves)

Are you kidding.....???

The space programme has cost TRILLIONs

Compared to that Military spending is boobskas !

and WHAT has the Space Programme

Done for this planet

???

In REAL TERMS ?

what ??

[Edited 6/7/18 1:11am]

[Edited 6/7/18 1:15am]

NASA Budget

US Military Budget

Military spending is roughly 30+ times that for the space program. The space program has brought a number of advances, with velcro not being the least of which. (simply because I like it) But also lots of other tech advances. If you really want to know look it up, it's not hard to find.

On top of that, it gives us a chance to escape this rock and get resources from outside our own planet. And it gives us more knowledge of the planet we live on and what else is out there in the universe.

Compare that to the US military, which has basically developed weapons for mass destruction, now with drone technology to bomb misidentified weddings and the military might has led the US to wage any number of illegal actions (the US is answerable to the UN). At the very least, Bush and Obama should be tried for war crimes, along with a number of high ranking US military personnel. The damage that the US military has done in the US and the world at large is almost immesurably large. Trillions just starts it. And it only brings fear, hate and despair. Unlike the space program, which inspires and lets us dream of what could be.

But all that is immaterial to you, I suppose.

mediumdry said:

CherryMoon57 said:

What's your point?

.

that Prince seemed to try sounding woke and ended up sounding dumb.

You're entitled to your opinion, but since I am to, let me tell you what I think sounds dumb:

It is people like you who, despite finding Prince's lyrics dumb, still take time and effort to come on a forum dedicated to the man, and criticise him in a thread commemorating his lyrics.

That's what I think is really dumb (and sad).

CherryMoon57 said:

mediumdry said:

.

that Prince seemed to try sounding woke and ended up sounding dumb.

You're entitled to your opinion, but since I am to, let me tell you what I think sounds dumb:

It is people like you who, despite finding Prince's lyrics dumb, still take time and effort to come on a forum dedicated to the man, and criticise him in a thread commemorating his lyrics.

That's what I think is really dumb (and sad).

.

I've admired most of the music the man has made for roughly 35 years. I am in awe of his work ethic and ability to keep challenging himself. At the same time, I can think for myself and will not just slavishly applaud anything that anyone does. There have been times I have been wrong. There have been times I did and said dumb things. If you haven't, then I guess you never just went out and risked things, tried things.

.

Now that Prince died, we get to see his human side more and more, instead of the mythological star that he played his entire adult life. To me, it makes him more amazing.

.

I do not understand why you would encourage people with opinions to leave the org. A place full of sycophants would be the worsed legacy for Prince to have. If you don't want to be challenged on your ideas, don't go to Internet fora.

mediumdry said:

CherryMoon57 said:

You're entitled to your opinion, but since I am to, let me tell you what I think sounds dumb:

It is people like you who, despite finding Prince's lyrics dumb, still take time and effort to come on a forum dedicated to the man, and criticise him in a thread commemorating his lyrics.

That's what I think is really dumb (and sad).

.

I've admired most of the music the man has made for roughly 35 years. I am in awe of his work ethic and ability to keep challenging himself. At the same time, I can think for myself and will not just slavishly applaud anything that anyone does. There have been times I have been wrong. There have been times I did and said dumb things. If you haven't, then I guess you never just went out and risked things, tried things.

.

Now that Prince died, we get to see his human side more and more, instead of the mythological star that he played his entire adult life. To me, it makes him more amazing.

.

I do not understand why you would encourage people with opinions to leave the org. A place full of sycophants would be the worsed legacy for Prince to have. If you don't want to be challenged on your ideas, don't go to Internet fora.

There are ways of giving your opinion without disrespecting others.

mediumdry said:

violetcrush said:

I think Prince's point about killing the baby - whether that was his view about abortion, or he was refering to the "sister" actually killing the baby out of desperation due to poverty - the message was that the money that had been spent by the Government on the space shuttle program, which had just ended in disaster the year prior, could have been used to support financial aid for those families in need.

.

Like I said, there isn't much that's similar between how a rocket operates and how an airplane does (although the space shuttle did have some airplane techniques for the return trip, but not propulsion)

I understand that Prince might have written with that disaster in mind, as it happened less than half a year before he recorded the song. That doesn't change the fact that he says that somehow the disaster of one thing should influence usage of another unrelated thing. It's silly.

.

The spending on the space program would not have done much to support families in need. For that, you'd want to take from the big pile and make cuts on the military. It might also stop the US from making the rest of the world a worse place to live in. (but please clean up behind yourselves)

I disagree. The US Government began putting millions/trillions into the NASA program in the1950's. It took huge amounts of money and manpower to further the basic technology that we had at that time. It was a huge iniative for Kennedy. We were competing against Russia to be the first on the Moon. I agree with your points above regarding the positive results of the NASA program, and the increased knowledge we have of "life" outside of our Planet. I just don't think Prince saw those advantages as more important than the issues here. I also agree with your points on our military spending - as I think Prince did as well. He always sang against the Gov't investing in war related expenses.

*

I think many here are over-analyzing the details with regard to Prince's song. My guess is, at the time he wrote it, he was thinking, "wow all of that money spent to get another Shuttle into Space, and it blows up on take off and kills everyone, including a civilian Teacher. It was a huge disaster/tragedy. I was watching the 24/7 news coverage the day that it happened while I was packing up to go back to college. It was a terrible blow for the country. That, plus The AIDS epidemic growing huge - I also remember articles and talk shows constantly on this topic, and drug addiction was in the forefront - the "Just Say No" campaign was all over the place.

*

Susannah Melvoin tells the story of this song. She was with Prince when he wrote and recorded the song. An EQ hit CA when they were staying there, and then he saw the AIDS headline on the front page of their paper. She said they flew back to MN that day, and he wrote and recorded the song as soon as they got back to the studio.

[Edited 6/7/18 6:33am]

poppys said:

Stimpy said:

Weed cewrtainly is a gateway drug. Gateway to happiness.

Thanks for the pure D trolling. I already stated upthread I have nothing against weed. Now Get Off my back.

Poppys - I think you are correct in your thinking here. I was in College during this time, and I disticntly remember the term "gateway drug" being thrown around when articles and news stories were done on Weed. It was thought that smoking Weed could potentially increase the chances of trying or wanting a stronger or different type of "high". I think now we know that is rarely the case, as there are many pot smokers who never have the desire to move on to cocaine or heroine - although I'm sure there are many who have done that. Also, 40 yrs ago Marijuana was looked at much differently than it is today. Now, it's often used for medicinal purposes and is legal in several places.

*

I think Prince's lyric "September my Cousin tried Reefer for the very first time, now he's doing Horse...it's June" speaks to that mentality, which is that a more harmless drug can lead to an addiction to a stronger one.

CherryMoon57 said:

There are ways of giving your opinion without disrespecting others.

.

No disrespect meant. I guess we have other standards of what is offensive. I thought this was a discussion.

mediumdry said:

CherryMoon57 said:

There are ways of giving your opinion without disrespecting others.

.

No disrespect meant. I guess we have other standards of what is offensive. I thought this was a discussion.

You arrived in this thread like a bull in a china shop and started trampling on people's posts with your pompous negative comments, even stating as a fact that Prince's lyrics were 'dumb'. Our standards clearly differ in terms of what constitutes a discussion.

[Edited 6/7/18 9:58am]

mattj said:

Lovejunky said:

Love the crunchy opening and the clever Lyrics...

Nina Simone covered SOTT,

but no body do it like Prince can...

Simple Minds did a great cover

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nE0tdzPY0w

Nice!

So did Chaka Khan... But Prince's is still by far the best imo.

mediumdry said:

CherryMoon57 said:

You're entitled to your opinion, but since I am to, let me tell you what I think sounds dumb:

It is people like you who, despite finding Prince's lyrics dumb, still take time and effort to come on a forum dedicated to the man, and criticise him in a thread commemorating his lyrics.

That's what I think is really dumb (and sad).

.

I've admired most of the music the man has made for roughly 35 years. I am in awe of his work ethic and ability to keep challenging himself. At the same time, I can think for myself and will not just slavishly applaud anything that anyone does. There have been times I have been wrong. There have been times I did and said dumb things. If you haven't, then I guess you never just went out and risked things, tried things.

.

Now that Prince died, we get to see his human side more and more, instead of the mythological star that he played his entire adult life. To me, it makes him more amazing.

.

I do not understand why you would encourage people with opinions to leave the org. A place full of sycophants would be the worsed legacy for Prince to have. If you don't want to be challenged on your ideas, don't go to Internet fora.

he's said, done and written dumb things, like any of us has, but sign o the times isn't one of those that comes to my mind when i think of "all the stupid shit that Prince did" he did a lot more stupid/embarrassing/fan cringing shit.

Lovejunky said:

violetcrush said:

I think Prince's point about killing the baby - whether that was his view about abortion, or he was refering to the "sister" actually killing the baby out of desperation due to poverty - the message was that the money that had been spent by the Government on the space shuttle program, which had just ended in disaster the year prior, could have been used to support financial aid for those families in need.

YES THAT

I hear crazy stories all the time about babies being left in dumpsters, bathrooms etc.., that would be the sort of thing i'd thing of with that line. Maybe he meant abortion, maybe he didn't i don't know.

PeteSilas said:

Lovejunky said:

YES THAT

I hear crazy stories all the time about babies being left in dumpsters, bathrooms etc.., that would be the sort of thing i'd thing of with that line. Maybe he meant abortion, maybe he didn't i don't know.

I was just going to post the same thought. Sadly and tragically, many babies have been killed by one or both parents throughout the years for various reasons, including not having the means to support the child. The worst I remember hearing was a woman - who I believe was mentally ill - who put her newborn baby in the Microwave. It makes me almost vomit just thinking about it now.

[Edited 6/7/18 13:25pm]

PeteSilas said:

mediumdry said:

.

I've admired most of the music the man has made for roughly 35 years. I am in awe of his work ethic and ability to keep challenging himself. At the same time, I can think for myself and will not just slavishly applaud anything that anyone does. There have been times I have been wrong. There have been times I did and said dumb things. If you haven't, then I guess you never just went out and risked things, tried things.

.

Now that Prince died, we get to see his human side more and more, instead of the mythological star that he played his entire adult life. To me, it makes him more amazing.

.

I do not understand why you would encourage people with opinions to leave the org. A place full of sycophants would be the worsed legacy for Prince to have. If you don't want to be challenged on your ideas, don't go to Internet fora.

he's said, done and written dumb things, like any of us has, but sign o the times isn't one of those that comes to my mind when i think of "all the stupid shit that Prince did" he did a lot more stupid/embarrassing/fan cringing shit.

Regarding the song SOTT, I think this thread has proven that the song and lyrics - even 30+ years later - invoke thoughts, opinions, and conversation about the meaning and the message he was trying to convey, and also discussion on the musical arrangement. I'd say that's pretty impressive, and most likely was his only expectation when he recorded the song.

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

he's said, done and written dumb things, like any of us has, but sign o the times isn't one of those that comes to my mind when i think of "all the stupid shit that Prince did" he did a lot more stupid/embarrassing/fan cringing shit.

Regarding the song SOTT, I think this thread has proven that the song and lyrics - even 30+ years later - invoke thoughts, opinions, and conversation about the meaning and the message he was trying to convey, and also discussion on the musical arrangement. I'd say that's pretty impressive, and most likely was his only expectation when he recorded the song.

Another thought on Prince putting out a "dumb or stupid" song.....even the songs that many or most would consider "not good" are better than other musicians, and always better than any non-professional musician could produce.

violetcrush said:

violetcrush said:

Regarding the song SOTT, I think this thread has proven that the song and lyrics - even 30+ years later - invoke thoughts, opinions, and conversation about the meaning and the message he was trying to convey, and also discussion on the musical arrangement. I'd say that's pretty impressive, and most likely was his only expectation when he recorded the song.

Another thought on Prince putting out a "dumb or stupid" song.....even the songs that many or most would consider "not good" are better than other musicians, and always better than any non-professional musician could produce.

.

Quite so. It's nice that threads like these make me re-evaluate tracks like this one again, they've been so much part of my life that they are kind of interwoven with myself.

.

As to what Prince would think of this discussion.. if he gave it any time at all, he'd probably chuckle and roll his eyes.

violetcrush said:

violetcrush said:

Regarding the song SOTT, I think this thread has proven that the song and lyrics - even 30+ years later - invoke thoughts, opinions, and conversation about the meaning and the message he was trying to convey, and also discussion on the musical arrangement. I'd say that's pretty impressive, and most likely was his only expectation when he recorded the song.

Another thought on Prince putting out a "dumb or stupid" song.....even the songs that many or most would consider "not good" are better than other musicians, and always better than any non-professional musician could produce.

as human beings we are all probably wrong a helluva lot more than we are right. Thomas Sowell has said someting wise about that when he pointed out how genius' have "reams and reams" of things they were wrong about. I think of it like hitting a baseball, you're doing good if you're right a third of the time.

mediumdry said:

violetcrush said:

Another thought on Prince putting out a "dumb or stupid" song.....even the songs that many or most would consider "not good" are better than other musicians, and always better than any non-professional musician could produce.

.

Quite so. It's nice that threads like these make me re-evaluate tracks like this one again, they've been so much part of my life that they are kind of interwoven with myself.

.

As to what Prince would think of this discussion.. if he gave it any time at all, he'd probably chuckle and roll his eyes.

He probably would do an eye roll....along with a thumbs up to those who got the message he intended, and a smile that the song triggered a pretty lengthy discussion

One of the greatest social commentary songs of all time, from, bare minimum, one of the greatest album of the 1980's.

audience1 said:

One of the greatest social commentary songs of all time, from, bare minimum, one of the greatest album of the 1980's.

couple other things about SOTT, it was after Purple Rain and 3 or 4 excellent albums, most pop artists of his stature are losing steam way before that many great albums and this one might have been his best. Another thing is, thematically, he was still going with biblical/apocalyptic themes to his albums. so, his sound and image was ever changing but the central themes seemed to stay the same.

PeteSilas said:

as human beings we are all probably wrong a helluva lot more than we are right. Thomas Sowell has said someting wise about that when he pointed out how genius' have "reams and reams" of things they were wrong about. I think of it like hitting a baseball, you're doing good if you're right a third of the time.

PeteSilas said:

couple other things about SOTT, it was after Purple Rain and 3 or 4 excellent albums, most pop artists of his stature are losing steam way before that many great albums and this one might have been his best. Another thing is, thematically, he was still going with biblical/apocalyptic themes to his albums. so, his sound and image was ever changing but the central themes seemed to stay the same.

You're right... As with statistics, it's not the ups and downs that matter in life, it's the overall trend. As long as we're heading in the right direction, we're doing good!

TrivialPursuit said:

Vannormal said:

TrivialPursuit said:

You'd think by now you'd realize just how worthless you are, Bert. But apparently not just yet, eh?

It’s not Bert, but Bart. - But hey, I learned something about the use of “it’s” and “its”. Thanks both. - By the way, was watching the Montreux 2013 (2nd) show on that famous video channel, and he played the song SOTT over a sampler with live instrumental additions. At some point an NPG horn-sax player (don’t know his name) added a funky sax-solo. Now thát was great ! - SOTT would be great (imho) with a sax solo. Now, someone here fix that, and mix it ! [Edited 6/8/18 3:21am]

I have to disagree with you on the sax for SOTT. It was never written to be a smooth, up-tempo "jazzy" tune. I think the original instrumental setup was for affect, and to emphasize the lyric.

*

I would guess that the sax solo was added for the Montreux show in order to align with the genre of the show. After all, it has always been a "jazz" oriented show.

PeteSilas said:

couple other things about SOTT, it was after Purple Rain and 3 or 4 excellent albums, most pop artists of his stature are losing steam way before that many great albums and this one might have been his best. Another thing is, thematically, he was still going with biblical/apocalyptic themes to his albums. so, his sound and image was ever changing but the central themes seemed to stay the same.

Don't forget though - most of the songs were carried over from the time period during or right after Purple Rain. He had recorded some of the "Dream Factory" songs before the PR tour had started, and many more during the ATWIAD/Parade period. Amazing to think how things might have gone if he had kept the Revolution for one more year, and been able to release the 3 disc Crystal Ball as originally planned. But yes, he never stopped including the biblical themes.