JorisE73 said:

databank said:

Oh, and how could I possibly forget:

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Don't u encourage them to butcher Prince's work!

I'm upset enough as it is with the fanmade OD/RG on PR Deluxe and the NC2U fanmade edit they've released

I suspected the NC2U release to be a current 'remixed' version with Prince's vocals replacing St. Paul's, but are you confirming here that's true?
I heard from "Scary Face Guy" on a.mp. way back when (I guess you know who I mean) here that the only full (known then at least) 'Prince' version doens't have Susannah (not sure) and Paul's backing vocals and now with this new released version I think then they added those or replaced Paul's vocals with Prince's to 'complete' it. If that is the case than we are fucked regarding non tampered with music from the vault becuase to me that means they are full willing to add raps by some current artist or make one of those horrible duets just to make money.

No I don't know anything about that and I've asked around but no one I know who may know knows (funny sentence isn't it? ).

Some people tell me they think it's from a cassette but they're not sure, and as for Scary Face Guy I was actually planning to ask him in MP what he thought.

All I know is that the mix on this version is waaaaay different from the mix of the same version with Paul on vocals, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

What I was talking about specifically is the radio edit on the 7'' (unavailable digitally AFAIK), which is highly unlikely to be genuine. I have no proof, for all I know it's from 1984, but it's quite unlikely. Same with OD/RG, we have no absolute proof but everything we know suggests it's a posthumous mash-up.

Again, if WB and the Estate came clear with details about the process of selecting, restoring and producing those recordings... I hope they will choose to do that in the future.

[Edited 5/9/18 2:11am]

databank said:

JorisE73 said:

I suspected the NC2U release to be a current 'remixed' version with Prince's vocals replacing St. Paul's, but are you confirming here that's true?
I heard from "Scary Face Guy" on a.mp. way back when (I guess you know who I mean) here that the only full (known then at least) 'Prince' version doens't have Susannah (not sure) and Paul's backing vocals and now with this new released version I think then they added those or replaced Paul's vocals with Prince's to 'complete' it. If that is the case than we are fucked regarding non tampered with music from the vault becuase to me that means they are full willing to add raps by some current artist or make one of those horrible duets just to make money.

No I don't know anything about that and I've asked around but no one I know who may know knows (funny sentence isn't it? ).

Some people tell me they think it's from a cassette but they're not sure, and as for Scary Face Guy I was actually planning to ask him in MP what he thought.

All I know is that the mix on this version is waaaaay different from the mix of the same version with Paul on vocals, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

What I was talking about specifically is the radio edit on the 7'' (unavailable digitally AFAIK), which is highly unlikely to be genuine. I have no proof, for all I know it's from 1984, but it's quite unlikely. Same with OD/RG, we have no absolute proof but everything we know suggests it's a posthumous mash-up.

Again, if WB and the Estate came clear with details about the process of selecting, restoring and producing those recordings... I hope they will choose to do that in the future.

[Edited 5/9/18 2:11am]

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I'm one of those who say the recent release of NC2U is indeed sourced from an old cassette (Compact Cassette, that is, not DAT) copy and not from the original masters.
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I know the Estate claimed (well, at least the curator of the Vault suggested in an interview) that it was remixed from the original multitrack, I don't believe that's the case. The poor sound quality just tells me it's from a cassette – just as Moonbeam Levels was, just as the Purple Rain Deluxe outtakes were.

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In my humble opinion we haven't heard a single note of any posthumous material coming directly from Paisley Park yet, regardless of what they say. I'm sorry, but I trust my ears more than that...

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I believe the very first true Vault release will be what's coming this fall.

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[Edited 5/9/18 2:29am]

Wouldn't the original multitrack have Paul's and Prince's vocal sessions, all of the latter backing vocals by Paul and Susannah, and the Clare Fischer orchestration (to whom I don't believe he submitted any of 'The Family' tracks before they had already been vocally re-recorded)?

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It seems to me they went with an almost 'everything-but-the-kitchen-sink' approach, and left it in all of the instrumentation-- including tracks we've not previously heard from the original 1984 session--some of the original backing vocals, some of the backing vocals from 'The Family' version, and used the original lead vocal take, and let it run a little longer without the edits.

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It's kind of a 'chimera' of a mix, but it is well done.

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[Edited 5/9/18 3:47am]

imprimis said:

Wouldn't the original multitrack have Paul's and Prince's vocal sessions, all of the latter backing vocals by Paul and Susannah, and the Clare Fischer orchestration (to whom I don't believe he submitted any of 'The Family' tracks before they had already been vocally re-recorded)?

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It seems to me they went with an almost 'everything-but-the-kitchen-sink' approach, and left it in all of the instrumentation-- including tracks we've not previously heard from the original 1984 session--some of the original backing vocals, some of the backing vocals from 'The Family' version, and used the original lead vocal take, and let it run a little longer without the edits.

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It's kind of a 'chimera' of a mix, but it is well done.

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[Edited 5/9/18 3:47am]

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Maybe P did tape over his own lead vocals when recording Paul's as the old rumours claimed? If that is the case, it is possible that a cassette copy of Prince's original rough mix survived and that's what they've now mixed with additional tracks from the original multitrack. I'm not sure, but at least parts of the current release is sourced from cassette.
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Kares said:

imprimis said:

Wouldn't the original multitrack have Paul's and Prince's vocal sessions, all of the latter backing vocals by Paul and Susannah, and the Clare Fischer orchestration (to whom I don't believe he submitted any of 'The Family' tracks before they had already been vocally re-recorded)?

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It seems to me they went with an almost 'everything-but-the-kitchen-sink' approach, and left it in all of the instrumentation-- including tracks we've not previously heard from the original 1984 session--some of the original backing vocals, some of the backing vocals from 'The Family' version, and used the original lead vocal take, and let it run a little longer without the edits.

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It's kind of a 'chimera' of a mix, but it is well done.

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[Edited 5/9/18 3:47am]

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Maybe P did tape over his own lead vocals when recording Paul's as the old rumours claimed? If that is the case, it is possible that a cassette copy of Prince's original rough mix survived and that's what they've now mixed with additional tracks from the original multitrack. I'm not sure, but at least parts of the current release is sourced from cassette.
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I had not heard specifically that NC2U had the original lead vocal recorded over on the m/t, which seems to be something likelier to happen with 'scratch' vocal guides for other (particularly female) artists. He went to a full effort here.

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We also don't affirmatively know that this song was intended specifically to be recorded by 'The Family' or another post-Time group, from its inception (if that is relevant to weighing the odds here).

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I'm more inclined to believe he retained just about everything, but some things may be lost or damaged due to mismanagement and poor maintenance.

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The same principles apply, (unlikely) but this could also be something 'they' cooked up back in the early 1990's for The Hits/B-Sides or a promo release before going with the Rosie/P 1992 live performance.

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[Edited 5/9/18 4:17am]

imprimis said:

Kares said:

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Maybe P did tape over his own lead vocals when recording Paul's as the old rumours claimed? If that is the case, it is possible that a cassette copy of Prince's original rough mix survived and that's what they've now mixed with additional tracks from the original multitrack. I'm not sure, but at least parts of the current release is sourced from cassette.
.

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I had not heard specifically that NC2U had the original lead vocal recorded over on the m/t, which seems to be something likelier to happen with 'scratch' vocal guides for other (particularly female) artists. He went to a full effort here.

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We also don't affirmatively know that this song was intended specifically to be recorded by 'The Family' or another post-Time group, from its inception (if that is relevant to weighing the odds here).

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I'm more inclined to believe he retained just about everything, but some things may be lost or damaged due to mismanagement and poor maintenance.

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The same principles apply, (unlikely) but this could also be something 'they' cooked up back in the early 1990's for The Hits/B-Sides or a promo release before going with the Rosie/P 1992 live performance.

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[Edited 5/9/18 4:17am]

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It's clearly not just a guide vocal, that's true, but Prince was known to erase stuff occasionally so I can't rule that out.
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If it is sourced in substantial part from a decaying cassette, that would almost necessitate having to pad and embellish its weaknesses with the better-surviving material from the master, given that this is the most commercially successful song identified with him but made famous by another artist. It's also high melodrama on the Sinead version, so how could they think it proper not to use all of the extra tricks to achieve the same on this version.

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It's unlikely that the Estate would intentionally release something that would expose 'vulnerabilities' of the material, the sources, or P himself, without balancing that against a clear financial objective (i.e., it was convenient and no other readily available options). I say that because some are complaining that it has been tampered with (which is a noble, but unrealistic position).

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This one is, after all, apparently being used to promote the September outtakes collection.

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If the above is true or partially true, it's still a far more credible effort than the OD/RHG cut-and-splice hackery.

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The task of releasing into the wild a proper demo of this song, without the anachronistic modifications, is better left to the traders.

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[Edited 5/9/18 4:58am]

I don't believe we want them to go to 'Bad 25'-lengths, as with, for example, 'Don't Be Messin' Around', where they went overboard and stripped the song down to its most basic elements (making it seem all demoy and intimate), passing it off as 'authentic', to counterbalance all of the (not unfounded) accusations about adulterating and faking the material on the earlier posthumous 'Michael' (2009) album.

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[Edited 5/9/18 5:17am]

imprimis said:

I don't believe we want them to go to 'Bad 25'-lengths, as with, for example, 'Don't Be Messin' Around', where they went overboard and stripped the song down to its most basic elements (making it seem all demoy and intimate), passing it off as 'authentic', to counterbalance all of the accusations about adulterating and faking the material on the earlier posthumous 'Michael' (2009) album.

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[Edited 5/9/18 5:16am]

They did that with "The Dance Electric" tho. I read it came from the original master tape but where were the additional vocals, guitar, percussion fills and the reverb that Susan Rogrs said they put on many tracks after being done (I Would Die 4 U 12 inch for example). It seems they stripped that song to become a Prince solo track.

JorisE73 said:

imprimis said:

I don't believe we want them to go to 'Bad 25'-lengths, as with, for example, 'Don't Be Messin' Around', where they went overboard and stripped the song down to its most basic elements (making it seem all demoy and intimate), passing it off as 'authentic', to counterbalance all of the accusations about adulterating and faking the material on the earlier posthumous 'Michael' (2009) album.

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[Edited 5/9/18 5:16am]

They did that with "The Dance Electric" tho. I read it came from the original master tape but where were the additional vocals, guitar, percussion fills and the reverb that Susan Rogrs said they put on many tracks after being done (I Would Die 4 U 12 inch for example). It seems they stripped that song to become a Prince solo track.

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That's true, although it's more of an alternate take drawing from the same initial tracking materials. That particular instance may have more to do with laziness in rushing PR Deluxe out the door and resorting to using WB Archive materials, and/or what were perceived to be needless legal/financial complications with A.C..

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imprimis said:

JorisE73 said:

They did that with "The Dance Electric" tho. I read it came from the original master tape but where were the additional vocals, guitar, percussion fills and the reverb that Susan Rogrs said they put on many tracks after being done (I Would Die 4 U 12 inch for example). It seems they stripped that song to become a Prince solo track.

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That's true, although it's more of an alternate take drawing from the same initial tracking materials. That particular instance may have more to do with laziness in rushing PR Deluxe out the door and resorting to using WB Archive materials, and/or what were perceived to be needless legal/financial complications with A.C..

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I think it was simply a cassette copy of an early, rough mix, and not of the finished master.
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Kares said:

imprimis said:

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That's true, although it's more of an alternate take drawing from the same initial tracking materials. That particular instance may have more to do with laziness in rushing PR Deluxe out the door and resorting to using WB Archive materials, and/or what were perceived to be needless legal/financial complications with A.C..

.

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I think it was simply a cassette copy of an early, rough mix, and not of the finished master.
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Yes. And that cassette was probably sourced from an associate or WB's Arts & Repertoire, at the same time avoiding any tie-ups or unnecessary expense in getting this delayed 'remastered' album out of the gate.

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[Edited 5/9/18 5:31am]

imprimis said:

JorisE73 said:

They did that with "The Dance Electric" tho. I read it came from the original master tape but where were the additional vocals, guitar, percussion fills and the reverb that Susan Rogrs said they put on many tracks after being done (I Would Die 4 U 12 inch for example). It seems they stripped that song to become a Prince solo track.

.

That's true, although it's more of an alternate take drawing from the same initial tracking materials. That particular instance may have more to do with laziness in rushing PR Deluxe out the door and resorting to using WB Archive materials, and/or what were perceived to be needless legal/financial complications with A.C..

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If the complete track was released as opposed to the stripped down version what would the legal complications be with A.C.? He only redid Prince's vocals and that's it so wouldn't there be legal complications anyhow with the PR Deluxe release?

[Edited 5/9/18 5:32am]

JorisE73 said:

imprimis said:

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That's true, although it's more of an alternate take drawing from the same initial tracking materials. That particular instance may have more to do with laziness in rushing PR Deluxe out the door and resorting to using WB Archive materials, and/or what were perceived to be needless legal/financial complications with A.C..

.

If the complete track was released as opposed to the stripped down version what would the legal complications be with A.C.? He only redid Prince's vocals and that's it so wouldn't there be legal complications anyhow with the PR Deluxe release?

[Edited 5/9/18 5:32am]

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Even just hunting down, requesting, and cleaning up the master, which is possibly in his or his label's immediate possession, may have been viewed as cost-prohibitive under time constraints, versus the alternative.

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[Edited 5/9/18 5:38am]

Kares said:

imprimis said:

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That's true, although it's more of an alternate take drawing from the same initial tracking materials. That particular instance may have more to do with laziness in rushing PR Deluxe out the door and resorting to using WB Archive materials, and/or what were perceived to be needless legal/financial complications with A.C..

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I think it was simply a cassette copy of an early, rough mix, and not of the finished master.
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Oh ok, maybe I remember it wrong but I remember the guy who worked on the PR Deluxe who posted on that topic here said it came straight from the mater tape.

JorisE73 said:

Kares said:

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I think it was simply a cassette copy of an early, rough mix, and not of the finished master.
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Oh ok, maybe I remember it wrong but I remember the guy who worked on the PR Deluxe who posted on that topic here said it came straight from the mater tape.

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Yes, that's the official story. The finished product, however, doesn't sound like it's true. It sounds like it was sourced from a cassette.
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imprimis said:

JorisE73 said:

If the complete track was released as opposed to the stripped down version what would the legal complications be with A.C.? He only redid Prince's vocals and that's it so wouldn't there be legal complications anyhow with the PR Deluxe release?

[Edited 5/9/18 5:32am]

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Even just hunting down, requesting, and cleaning up the master, which is possibly in his or his label's immediate possession, may have been viewed as cost-prohibitive under time constraints.

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Ah right. I figured Prince would have the master tape but obviously he probably doesn't.
I do remember when that A.C. Deluxe edition came out with the (almost) complete unreleased version with AC's vocals on it they said the complete Prince verison was lost or misplaced or else they would have put that also on the release also.

JorisE73 said:

imprimis said:

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Even just hunting down, requesting, and cleaning up the master, which is possibly in his or his label's immediate possession, may have been viewed as cost-prohibitive under time constraints.

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Ah right. I figured Prince would have the master tape but obviously he probably doesn't.
I do remember when that A.C. Deluxe edition came out with the (almost) complete unreleased version with AC's vocals on it they said the complete Prince verison was lost or misplaced or else they would have put that also on the release also.

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I believe they were teasing that they had what was, at that point, the closest one could reasonably get to a clean copy of the original. The extended-length instrumental mix, which I believe was newly created for that release (contrary to the advertising and liner notes), appears to be most of P's version without the vocal in place. And it has minor instrumental elements meant to supplement P's vocal that don't work with and are not in Andre's version. I think he likely had the master, or a copy thereof.

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[Edited 5/9/18 5:44am]

JorisE73 said:

imprimis said:

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Even just hunting down, requesting, and cleaning up the master, which is possibly in his or his label's immediate possession, may have been viewed as cost-prohibitive under time constraints.

.

Ah right. I figured Prince would have the master tape but obviously he probably doesn't.
I do remember when that A.C. Deluxe edition came out with the (almost) complete unreleased version with AC's vocals on it they said the complete Prince verison was lost or misplaced or else they would have put that also on the release also.

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There are several different types of "master" tapes. Prince surely has the original multitrack (2" analog) tape, as that's the original recording.
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A stereo mixdown tape is often called "master tape", and probably that's something Sony would have these days for the AC album. But there can be other master tapes as well, such as production masters that require different EQ-ing for different formats.
.

Kares said:

JorisE73 said:

Ah right. I figured Prince would have the master tape but obviously he probably doesn't.
I do remember when that A.C. Deluxe edition came out with the (almost) complete unreleased version with AC's vocals on it they said the complete Prince verison was lost or misplaced or else they would have put that also on the release also.

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There are several different types of "master" tapes. Prince surely has the original multitrack (2" analog) tape, as that's the original recording.
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A stereo mixdown tape is often called "master tape", and probably that's something Sony would have these days for the AC album. But there can be other master tapes as well, such as production masters that require different EQ-ing for different formats.
.

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That's true, and it is still compatible with your theory about associate or in-house cassette sourced material. I don't believe the Estate people had done much of anything, cataloguing the Vault or other storage facilities, let alone copying and working with the 2" analog tapes, when PR Deluxe was being rushed out after several years of ambivalence and near-cancellation.

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[Edited 5/9/18 5:51am]

imprimis said:

Kares said:

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There are several different types of "master" tapes. Prince surely has the original multitrack (2" analog) tape, as that's the original recording.
.
A stereo mixdown tape is often called "master tape", and probably that's something Sony would have these days for the AC album. But there can be other master tapes as well, such as production masters that require different EQ-ing for different formats.
.

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That's true, and it is still compatible with your theory about associate or in-house cassette sourced material. I don't believe the Estate people had done much of anything, cataloguing the Vault or other storage facilities, let alone copying and working with the 2" analog tapes, when PR Deluxe was being rushed out after several years of ambivalence and near-cancellation.

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[Edited 5/9/18 5:51am]

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Yep – that's why I'm saying that the very first true Vault release is yet to come.
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imprimis said:

Kares said:

.
There are several different types of "master" tapes. Prince surely has the original multitrack (2" analog) tape, as that's the original recording.
.
A stereo mixdown tape is often called "master tape", and probably that's something Sony would have these days for the AC album. But there can be other master tapes as well, such as production masters that require different EQ-ing for different formats.
.

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That's true, and it is still compatible with your theory about associate or in-house cassette sourced material. I don't believe the Estate people had done much of anything, cataloguing the Vault or other storage facilities, let alone copying and working with the 2" analog tapes, when PR Deluxe was being rushed out.

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[Edited 5/9/18 5:48am]

You're all starting to make me doubt too
And on another topic there is an interview with that french guy who had input in PR Deluxe and said WB delibiratly left of a major portion of unreleased tracks and teh 1983 First Avenue show. So that means WB then have much more 1983/1984 material to release in the future from there own tapes?! Or did the estate work with that release?

JorisE73 said:

imprimis said:

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That's true, and it is still compatible with your theory about associate or in-house cassette sourced material. I don't believe the Estate people had done much of anything, cataloguing the Vault or other storage facilities, let alone copying and working with the 2" analog tapes, when PR Deluxe was being rushed out.

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[Edited 5/9/18 5:48am]

You're all starting to make me doubt too
And on another topic there is an interview with that french guy who had input in PR Deluxe and said WB delibiratly left of a major portion of unreleased tracks and teh 1983 First Avenue show. So that means WB then have much more 1983/1984 material to release in the future from there own tapes?! Or did the estate work with that release?

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I believe WB has a cleaned up pro-shot video, and a 'stereo' sound feed coming into that from the mixing panel, that was considered as a DVD supplement to PR Deluxe, that will eventually see release. It is exactly the bootlegged tape we already have, just several generations higher, with the improved audio element (which is the same source as on the bootleg video). It isn't a soundboard in the sense of a mixdown from the 24-channel m/t in the mobile recording studio RV, despite claims to the contrary, the original to which was probably disassembled and chopped up in the making of the album.

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I wouldn't be surprised to see excerpts from it on the official YouTube at some point. A few samples were already briefly displayed on Twitter and Instagram as 'something special' by insiders immediately prior to PR Deluxe, before being removed.

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[Edited 5/9/18 6:14am]

imprimis said:

JorisE73 said:

You're all starting to make me doubt too
And on another topic there is an interview with that french guy who had input in PR Deluxe and said WB delibiratly left of a major portion of unreleased tracks and teh 1983 First Avenue show. So that means WB then have much more 1983/1984 material to release in the future from there own tapes?! Or did the estate work with that release?

.

I believe WB has a cleaned up pro-shot video, and a 'stereo' sound feed coming into that from the mixing panel, that was considered as a DVD supplement to PR Deluxe, that will eventually see release. It is exactly the bootlegged tape we already have, just several generations higher, with the improved audio element (which is the same source as on the bootleg video). It isn't a soundboard in the sense of a mixdown from the 24-channel m/t in the mobile recording studio RV, despite claims to the contrary, the original to which was probably disassembled and chopped up in the making of the album.

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I wouldn't be surprised to see excerpts from it on the official YouTube at some point.

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[Edited 5/9/18 6:08am]

The bootleg video is pretty hideous audio wise and I know there is a copy from the mobile truck floating among some deep collectors.
The version of 1983 First Avneue version of "Purple Rain" that was broadcast on that radio special 2 years ago that was provided by a First Avenue employee (? not sure) was of unheard amazing quality and he had the entire show.

JorisE73 said:

imprimis said:

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I believe WB has a cleaned up pro-shot video, and a 'stereo' sound feed coming into that from the mixing panel, that was considered as a DVD supplement to PR Deluxe, that will eventually see release. It is exactly the bootlegged tape we already have, just several generations higher, with the improved audio element (which is the same source as on the bootleg video). It isn't a soundboard in the sense of a mixdown from the 24-channel m/t in the mobile recording studio RV, despite claims to the contrary, the original to which was probably disassembled and chopped up in the making of the album.

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I wouldn't be surprised to see excerpts from it on the official YouTube at some point.

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[Edited 5/9/18 6:08am]

The bootleg video is pretty hideous audio wise and I know there is a copy from the mobile truck floating among some deep collectors.
The version of 1983 First Avneue version of "Purple Rain" that was broadcast on that radio special 2 years ago that was provided by a First Avenue employee (? not sure) was of unheard amazing quality and he had the entire show.

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What you are describing as the improved audio among deep collectors is the original audio source for the pro-shot video, which is in a muddy stereo but an appreciable upgrade over what we currently have (it still leaves much to be desired, however). People have been heralding this as being in excellent quality, which it isn't, and wasn't even when it was hot-off-the-presses in 1983.

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The bootleg video, naturally, uses this exact audio source, but it was copied across many generations on 1980s-era consumer-grade monophonic VHS devices. The original combined tape was probably on Betamax, with the audio dubbed in, and copied to VHS for P and mgm't to watch at their pleasure.

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A true copy of mobile truck recording from the m/t's would be beyond the Holy Grail, and most likely no longer properly exists (as a consequence of reworking, overdubbing, and sequencing the album tracks). Although certainly high-quality copies thereof may exist, they are likely far outside the reach of even the most well-connected collector, and I doubt the Estate would even know where to look or how to piece it back together at this stage.

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The pro-shot video feed is either from the First Avenue mixing panel, or some type of 'dry mixdown' from the truck, but the clarity and quality differences from the tapes on the truck are, needless to say, immense.

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[Edited 5/9/18 6:36am]

imprimis said:

JorisE73 said:

The bootleg video is pretty hideous audio wise and I know there is a copy from the mobile truck floating among some deep collectors.
The version of 1983 First Avneue version of "Purple Rain" that was broadcast on that radio special 2 years ago that was provided by a First Avenue employee (? not sure) was of unheard amazing quality and he had the entire show.

.

What you are describing as the improved audio among deep collectors is the original audio source for the pro-shot video, which is in a muddy stereo but an appreciable upgrade over what we currently have (it still leaves much to be desired, however).

.

The bootleg video, naturally, uses this exact audio source, but it was copied across several generations on 1980s-era consumer-grade monophonic VHS devices.

.

A true copy of mobile truck recording from the m/t's would be beyond the Holy Grail, and most likely no longer properly exists (as a consequence of reworking, overdubbing, and sequencing the album tracks). Although certainly high-quality copies thereof may exist, they are likely far outside the reach of even the most well-connected collector, and I doubt the Estate would even know where to look or how to piece it back together.

.

The pro-shot video feed is either from the First Avenue mixing panel, or some type of 'dry mixdown' from the truck, but the clarity and quality differences from the tapes on the truck are, needless to say, immense.

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[Edited 5/9/18 6:25am]

The version from the radio broadcast was an entirely different mix, much more dynamic, clean, and less in your face so to say and less audience (comparable with the June 7th 1984 soundboard).
The Eye Records version that they butchered and brickwalled instead of cleaned up came from a tape used on the video bootleg and sounds different to what that First Avenue guy has.

I really hope they didn't cut up the original mobile truck tapes but the estate was already in contact with the guy who provided the tape for the radio special because he was well known to Prince and his associates. So they have at least his tape they could clean up and release.

JorisE73 said:

imprimis said:

.

What you are describing as the improved audio among deep collectors is the original audio source for the pro-shot video, which is in a muddy stereo but an appreciable upgrade over what we currently have (it still leaves much to be desired, however).

.

The bootleg video, naturally, uses this exact audio source, but it was copied across several generations on 1980s-era consumer-grade monophonic VHS devices.

.

A true copy of mobile truck recording from the m/t's would be beyond the Holy Grail, and most likely no longer properly exists (as a consequence of reworking, overdubbing, and sequencing the album tracks). Although certainly high-quality copies thereof may exist, they are likely far outside the reach of even the most well-connected collector, and I doubt the Estate would even know where to look or how to piece it back together.

.

The pro-shot video feed is either from the First Avenue mixing panel, or some type of 'dry mixdown' from the truck, but the clarity and quality differences from the tapes on the truck are, needless to say, immense.

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[Edited 5/9/18 6:25am]

The version from the radio broadcast was an entirely different mix, much more dynamic, clean, and less in your face so to say and less audience (comparable with the June 7th 1984 soundboard).
The Eye Records version that they butchered and brickwalled instead of cleaned up came from a tape used on the video bootleg and sounds different to what that First Avenue guy has.

I really hope they didn't cut up the original mobile truck tapes but the estate was already in contact with the guy who provided the tape for the radio special because he was well known to Prince and his associates. So they have at least his tape they could clean up and release.

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There is also circulating a true mix-down from the mobile truck, but it, again, is average quality, although impressive from a bootlegging perspective. It is a less-degraded version of the same tape the rehearsals (which appear on the 'Live at First Avenue '83', 'Purple Beginnings', 'Purple Rush', among others) are sourced from, but this time, 'they' let us hear a portion of the actual show.

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[Edited 5/9/18 6:43am]

imprimis said:

JorisE73 said:

The version from the radio broadcast was an entirely different mix, much more dynamic, clean, and less in your face so to say and less audience (comparable with the June 7th 1984 soundboard).
The Eye Records version that they butchered and brickwalled instead of cleaned up came from a tape used on the video bootleg and sounds different to what that First Avenue guy has.

I really hope they didn't cut up the original mobile truck tapes but the estate was already in contact with the guy who provided the tape for the radio special because he was well known to Prince and his associates. So they have at least his tape they could clean up and release.

.

There is also circulating a true mix-down from the mobile truck, but it, again, is average quality, although impressive from a bootlegging perspective. It is a less-degraded version of the same tape the rehearsals (which appear on the 'Live at First Avenue '83', 'Purple Beginnings', 'Purple Rush', among others) are sourced from, but this time, 'they' let us hear a portion of the actual show.

.

[Edited 5/9/18 6:43am]

Did you hear Purple Rain from the radio special?

JorisE73 said:

imprimis said:

.

There is also circulating a true mix-down from the mobile truck, but it, again, is average quality, although impressive from a bootlegging perspective. It is a less-degraded version of the same tape the rehearsals (which appear on the 'Live at First Avenue '83', 'Purple Beginnings', 'Purple Rush', among others) are sourced from, but this time, 'they' let us hear a portion of the actual show.

.

[Edited 5/9/18 6:43am]

Did you hear Purple Rain from the radio special?

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I believe it is from that same tape (that the long-circulating rehearsals come from). Perhaps I am underestimating the quality of the original source.

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imprimis said:

JorisE73 said:

Did you hear Purple Rain from the radio special?

.

I believe it is from that same tape (that the long-circulating rehearsals come from). Perhaps I am underestimating the quality of the original source.

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The quality of those rehearsals is far removed from the quality of the broadcast.
But if the source is the same than those rehearsals hopefully come out in that kind of quality. The quality of those rehearsals on the bootlegs isn't too bad but nowhere near the quality of that radio special.