POOK said:

databank said:

Just imagine if it was to happen: the estate release each ande every album in multitrack.

JUST IMAGINE IF PRINCE RELEASE SEVEN DISC SET OF SAMPLE TRACK WOULD BE A LOT LIKE THAT

It might be partly my fault that it was pulled! I posted about it on the NPGMC boards that if it comes with an unlimited use license then anyone could just copy it and sell it for a dollar

what a disaster this thread turned into....

OnlyNDaUsa said:

POOK said:

databank said: JUST IMAGINE IF PRINCE RELEASE SEVEN DISC SET OF SAMPLE TRACK WOULD BE A LOT LIKE THAT

It might be partly my fault that it was pulled! I posted about it on the NPGMC boards that if it comes with an unlimited use license then anyone could just copy it and sell it for a dollar

Morris Hayes said in a recent interview that he talked Prince into not doing it, telling him not only WB would give him legal shit and that, more importantly, he would devaluate his catalogue and the originality of his sound. I don't think Morris meant he was soleley responsible for the project being pulled but he definitely had a hand in it.

mediumdry said:

databank said:

I think this idea is a monstruosity because what you describe when you say "remove this element you don't like"and "add this if you want it here"is no less than the destruction of arts and artists altogether. Arts is not something where you get to pick and choose and remove Tony M. Arts is the vision of artists and is to be taken as such, as a whole, and if one doesn't like amy given work of art they can just go fuck themselves, period,

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I guess this is where we differ in opinion. Art is a cultural thing. And culture changes. And it is shared. Nothing is in a vacuum. As much as I disliked hiphop originally (I'd hear a great song on the radio, but it turned out to be a short loop with some silly rapper talking silly shit instead) I have to admit its cultural significance and it has produced some cool (to me) music. Art changes all the time because the environment changes. The Black Album in 1987 would have been amazing, but when it was eventually released it simply didn't have the same impact anymore. The music hadn't changed, but the story and environment around it (so the ears of the listener) had. So the whole had changed. Wether you wanted it or not. The idea that the vision of an artist is all there is to Art is silly, to me. They play a part, just like culture and the person consuming the Art. There are no wrong answers, necesarily.

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There have been a few artists (Ben Folds and I believe Nine Inch Nails, probably more) have already released some of their music as stems. It's a valid way to release music and very much in the realm of forward thinking artists. (think Prince around Dirty Mind) Do you remember those samples albums, where artists put parts of their music in small pieces so people could construct whatever they wanted from it (for instance, George Clinton's Sample Some Of Disc, Sample Some Of DAT series) Prince wanted to release some too, he had an entire sample series ready to go... (sure, that was to make more money more than art, probably)

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I don't think a multitrack release is going to happen though, because between WB and the estate, I don't think they do things because of Art. They are in the business and money part of the equation. (which is a valid and necessary part of the art business, artists have to get paid too)

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Just to take this a step further, Prince is dead. This means that no incentive in the world is going to make him produce new music. So copyright (an incentive for the artist) should be revoked and all of Prince's work should be public domain. As fans, we have collectively sponsored/paid for all the music to be created... so it should be released to us. All of it, as fast as possible.

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I know it's never going to happen because too much money is involved, but in a utopia, it should happen. Art and business have conflicting interests and business has won in most parts of life, unfortunately.

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As to your vision of a pure artistic vision and having Prince tracks only "as he intended".. I think that's an inpossibility. Just look at Nothing Compares as it was released recently. Was that as he intended? May be.. at first, for a split second. Then it was intended in the mix that ended up on The Family album. Then it was as it ended up on the hits..

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Artistic choices will have to be made from here on out. Not just in the mix, but also in the mastering. It can have a profound influence. Just listen to the change...ring even. If something like that can change the music so dramatically already, releasing the multi-track is not that huge a leap from there. It's an option. I think that you are right and it won't happen. In my mind, not to protect Prince's Art, but to protect his business.

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And it's fine. I don't have any legal rights to his music, but I can give my opinion.

You're making some valid point. I'd argue that a samples disc is something else that all multitracks from all songs. There is still a selection by the artist as to which elements are to be isolated and "sold out".

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As for public domain after death why not, after all, it would work for the released material. But then what becomes of the multitracks and, more importantly, the unreleased material? Clearly, it can't be that the vault is open to anyone to just go and steal what they want and destroy the tapes even if they feel so inclined. So what do we do? Someone has to curate the material untill everything is out. A governmental institution? You'd have a lot of people screaming "communism" if you do that.

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I also have reservations about those post-mortem mixes. As I said in another thread it's unclear to me whether after having a quick mix done for a track and having it put to cassette, as Prince usually did after completing a track, indications were written down by engineers about such mix. I can't imagine the mix would have to be redone from scratch if Prince would want to release the track at a later date, so some indication would have to have been left. But yes, when I compare the NC2U mix to the same version with Paul's vocals as streamed by Paul in 2002, I can't help but noticing many differences in the mix, and wondering whether this was a work in progress mix or if the estate had someone fuck it up entirely. Worst case, whenever available, those cassettes should be usued as an indication of how the song was intened to be mixed, and engineers should try and reproduce it as much as possible.

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In any case it's difficult. We almost get back to the ethical matter of should Max Brod have released Kafka's works against Kafka's wishes that it should all be burnt to ashes. Obviously the loss would have been too big for us toi wish he'd respected the author's wishes. All I'm saying is whatever Prince left, released or unreleased, we should make sure it remains as untempered with as possible in the future. Admitedly I am a purist, maybe because I am a creative person myself and I do not consider arts an "ordinary" activity nor artists "ordinary" people. There is a sacred dimension to it in my eyes

luvsexy4all said:

what a disaster this thread turned into....

Sorry

databank said:

luvsexy4all said:

what a disaster this thread turned into....

Sorry

this one is my fault... I thought I was in the topic about what do you want more...

OnlyNDaUsa said:

databank said:

Sorry

this one is my fault... I thought I was in the topic about what do you want more...

You seem eager to take the blame for everything today

I can't wait for you to confess 9/11 and WWII were your fault, too

databank said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

this one is my fault... I thought I was in the topic about what do you want more...

You seem eager to take the blame for everything today

I can't wait for you to confess 9/11 and WWII were your fault, too

I do not have an Alibi for WW II.

But what else did I take the blame for? (oh yeah I forgot... I doubt they paid that any attention I think they deleted it but I doubt that had anything to do with it)

[Edited 5/6/18 13:24pm]

OnlyNDaUsa said:

this is what I want!

Prince the Multi-Track master collection:

It would need a computer but it would come with a digital mixing board and files of each track so you could mix your own versions. (maybe somewhat simplified)


Also a Guitar Hero game! I have not played that is years but if they put out a Prince one... i would buy it and if need be the console to play it.

The only thing is, mixing is a lot more than simply just panning instruments to the left or right and changing the volume, you have to have a deep understanding on frequencies and how to EQ instruments properly so that no instrument's frequencies interfere with another, using things such as compression and time based effects, etc. I would rather just leave it to the professionals

databank said:

Admitedly I am a purist, maybe because I am a creative person myself and I do not consider arts an "ordinary" activity nor artists "ordinary" people. There is a sacred dimension to it in my eyes

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I understand that, as I creative person myself, I feel that art is of the people. I've created many things and enjoy them being open source, creative commons or just gifts.

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I understand the conflict. I also sometimes feel upset if my ideas are completely re-appropriated. And I want to hear Prince's music as he intended. But then... I don't play music loud, generally. Prince played his music loud and mixed for it. I love bass, but the mid lows in his music are not pronounced enough to be heard well when played softly. So often have I wished "if only..". Many people think Bart is only negative, for instance, but to me it is clear he clearly loves Prince to the point of him being a part of his life, he couldn't stop loving him if he wanted. Which makes all the boneheaded decisions all the more painful. For me, having the multitracks would enable me to take away some of the pain I've felt listening to his music all these years (well, since 1988). So often it is almost there, but not quite... it's like a sneeze that never quite comes. I desperately want to scratch that itch.

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At the same time I understand the argument that you want to be able to distinguish what was Prince and what wasn't. Prince himself has blurred this already considerably, with reworking songs years after first inception.

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Seems I can't stop myself. I wanted to apologize for derailing this thread (and many other crimes, don't hog the responsibility OnlyNDaUSA and databank), but ended up going on and on

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So.. Five Women... The differences between released and unreleased aren't enough for me to go for the poorer sounding unreleased version. That said, I also wouldn't be able to tell you which release has the best sound for the unreleased version, I tend to rip, rename with recording date (if known) and remove the worse sounding versions. I don't know what it came from originally...