Yeah but Velvet Kitty Cat is even worse than Purple And Gold. It really is that shit.

I've finally seen the Facebook post that's the source of the "WBR will do a Piano + Microphone concert recording release": https://www.facebook.com/...1462400828 .

.

Uhm... Seriously? That's the "evidence"?

Strive said:

The estate should limit how much they listen to the fanbase solely because we don't have the full picture.

.

The general public does not hear hits from Prince anymore so he will fade from public memory.

What remians (for a bit longer) are the fans.

udo said:

Strive said:

udo said:

.

The general public does not hear hits from Prince anymore so he will fade from public memory.

What remians (for a bit longer) are the fans.

Honestly, this is such a shortsighted and sad belief. His fanbase has been expanding since his death,

.

How would that work?

No more touring. Just archives to lean on.

No promotion, still the slow on-per-year-ish release pace, unkept promises, unclear communication (if at all).

I see no reason for your growth but that does not mean it is not true if it in fact is true.

BartVanHemelen said:

love2thenines2003 said:

udo said:

Strive said:

udo said: Honestly, this is such a shortsighted and sad belief. His fanbase has been expanding since his death,

.

How would that work?

No more touring. Just archives to lean on.

No promotion, still the slow on-per-year-ish release pace, unkept promises, unclear communication (if at all).

I see no reason for your growth but that does not mean it is not true if it in fact is true.

Record sales exploded after his death. Numerous large scale tributes. Prince related groups back on the road. Being covered by other artists and featured on that music competition.

Licensing his music out to TV and movies is going to be the biggest weapon the Estate has in the future. There's no Prince standing in the way to block a filmmaker from using one of his older songs like he did with The Most Beautiful Girl In The World and Kevin Smith. The more places his music pops up, the more the public will take notice. He'll become intertwined with pop culture.

The estate is still fighting with each other in court and we're already getting 2 posthumous albums from 2 different Prince eras by the end of 2019 with things like First Ave 83 being shopped around. That's about as good as you can expect, even if they were operating at 100%, since they aren't going to flood the market with material. Dagger Records, which was operated by Experience Hendrix and had the sole mission of releasing offical bootlegs, only released 1 new title a year.

April 2016, Prince passes. June 2017, Purple Rain Deluxe. September 2018, [untitled WB album]. 2019, [untitlted Tidal album]. That's pretty solid.

Hopefully things can ramp up and expand once all the legal issues are settled. The post Warner albums need to be brought back into print ASAP. And the market should be able to support 1 new album, 1 live album and 1 "Deluxe" edition a year, eventually. Although the definition of Deluxe album probably needs to change. They can't keep including From The Vault discs if they're going to continue doing "new" albums.

I couldn't care for any Piano + Microphone concert, I want Studio Material!! New old songs!!!

I'm down for any new release.

Militant said:

AhPook said:

And just because something has been heavily leaked shouldn't mean the law-abiding public wont ever get the chance to hear it.

That's not the point I was making.

Consider this : Would fans have been more excited about "Prince 4Ever" if the unreleased song on it, was a completely unheard 1983 song, as opposed to "Moonbeam Levels"?

The answer is yes. And the mood/hype of the fanbase around a release feeds into the wider public.

For most of the public, "Moonbeam Levels" was a completely unheard song. Complaining that you already have something on a bootleg is like complaining that the car you stole only has a quarter tank of gas.

AhPook said:

Militant said:

That's not the point I was making.

Consider this : Would fans have been more excited about "Prince 4Ever" if the unreleased song on it, was a completely unheard 1983 song, as opposed to "Moonbeam Levels"?

The answer is yes. And the mood/hype of the fanbase around a release feeds into the wider public.

For most of the public, "Moonbeam Levels" was a completely unheard song. Complaining that you already have something on a bootleg is like complaining that the car you stole only has a quarter tank of gas.

And you're still missing the point.

The public anticipation for a release comes from the fanbase. If the hardcore fanbase is enthusiastic about a release, the enthusiasm spreads to everyone else. That is how it works. I cannot tell you how many people got in touch with me about 4Ever and Purple Rain Deluxe. Or how many people clicked over here to see what people were saying about the releases.

And the response, from this fanbase, was middling, because it is a song that everyone has had for years. Whether you agree with that reaction or not is besides the point - that is simply the fact of what happened.

The only way around this would have been to spend money on marketing the song as a single, to get radio play, maybe make a video for it as they have done for NC2U. They didn't do that, so it is what it is.

have the estate
GIVE ALL the fans and orgers T-SHIRTS with CD/DVD rlease pics...what betta way to promote?

Eh, it isn't like uncirculating songs are immune from getting a middling response here. How many gems popped out from the elite vs Eye Records fight and how many of them recieved a big response once the initial excitement of 'new leaks' died down? Not many.

Moonbeam Levels had clips of it played on TV around the time of release. Wally may have been a more exciting choice for the hardcore fanbase but the casual/potential fan would've been ???

Wally's genius but you need to know the story behind it and live with the song a bit to truly appreciate it.

Militant said:

And the response, from this fanbase, was middling, because it is a song that everyone has had for years. Whether you agree with that reaction or not is besides the point - that is simply the fact of what happened.

The only way around this would have been to spend money on marketing the song as a single, to get radio play, maybe make a video for it as they have done for NC2U. They didn't do that, so it is what it is.

.

It would also have helped if the sound quality had been amazing. And that it wasn't a blatant effort at getting fans to buy a disappointing collection.

Strive said:

Eh, it isn't like uncirculating songs are immune from getting a middling response here. How many gems popped out from the elite vs Eye Records fight and how many of them recieved a big response once the initial excitement of 'new leaks' died down? Not many.

.

That's because those are often unstructured leaks, and the initial reaction is "where can I find this". Plus there's also the "leakers vs bootleggers" story that gets mixed in there.

Strive said:

Hopefully things can ramp up and expand once all the legal issues are settled. The post Warner albums need to be brought back into print ASAP. And the market should be able to support 1 new album, 1 live album and 1 "Deluxe" edition a year, eventually. Although the definition of Deluxe album probably needs to change. They can't keep including From The Vault discs if they're going to continue doing "new" albums.

Yeah right. Dream on.

This will never happen imho.

-

Prince's fanbase is over 40/50 years old, and no, it isn't growing.

It might be that there's some more interests just up until now, but years go by fast, and Prince finally will be forgotten by most.

I'm affraid that we are the walking wallets for the estate and WB, if they dicide to release something from the eighties or his much beloved vault.

-

I considder it a wise (music industry) decision from a money-making-machine's point of view, to release the live music of the Piano & Microphone tour. It's much more obvious, and albeit a good decision.

-

An expanded '1999' album release would not make it I'm afraid, although it's that what I want.

Vannormal said:

Strive said:

Hopefully things can ramp up and expand once all the legal issues are settled. The post Warner albums need to be brought back into print ASAP. And the market should be able to support 1 new album, 1 live album and 1 "Deluxe" edition a year, eventually. Although the definition of Deluxe album probably needs to change. They can't keep including From The Vault discs if they're going to continue doing "new" albums.

Yeah right. Dream on.

This will never happen imho.

-

Prince's fanbase is over 40/50 years old, and no, it isn't growing.

It might be that there's some more interests just up until now, but years go by fast, and Prince finally will be forgotten by most.

I'm affraid that we are the walking wallets for the estate and WB, if they dicide to release something from the eighties or his much beloved vault.

-

I considder it a wise (music industry) decision from a money-making-machine's point of view, to release the live music of the Piano & Microphone tour. It's much more obvious, and albeit a good decision.

-

An expanded '1999' album release would not make it I'm afraid, although it's that what I want.

You're wrong. There are youngsters out there (myself included) who came to Prince after his death.

FullLipsDotNose said:

Vannormal said:

Yeah right. Dream on.

This will never happen imho.

-

Prince's fanbase is over 40/50 years old, and no, it isn't growing.

It might be that there's some more interests just up until now, but years go by fast, and Prince finally will be forgotten by most.

I'm affraid that we are the walking wallets for the estate and WB, if they dicide to release something from the eighties or his much beloved vault.

-

I considder it a wise (music industry) decision from a money-making-machine's point of view, to release the live music of the Piano & Microphone tour. It's much more obvious, and albeit a good decision.

-

An expanded '1999' album release would not make it I'm afraid, although it's that what I want.

You're wrong. There are youngsters out there (myself included) who came to Prince after his death.

Right on.

Van, how do you explain then 3 million and half views for NC2U? We're not that many hardcore fans.

How do you explain Bob Marley, The Beatles, Nirvana all made the Billboard albums last year?
Elvis? Still sells. Led Zep? Still sells. Fleetwood Mac? Abba?

When an artist produces quality, it lasts. Pop music ain't gonna morph into serial dodecaphonic music any day soon.
And the current state of pop is bound to die, you can't repeat yourself for more than thirty decades.
The pattern will still be intro-verse-chorus-verse-bridge-solo-chorus ad lib.
Or a combination of the above. But the fundamentals are there.

Trust us, the young generation knows better.
While autotune may still seduce nine-year-olds,
by thirteen you discover stuff. And since the eighties revival seems to last forever,
since vinyl is back for good, there's no reason to think the champion of them all
is not going to appeal to veryone.

It's not one Prince you have to sell to the public.
It's many, and we're pretty sharp. Prince could have done Purple Rain ad æternam and amass a fortune, bigger than Abba's and Queen combined. He just remembered he's from Uptown.

Fuck NYC, fuck LA, fuck their coke and poses,
I'm staying at home. Sure, it's a huge bet to build a state-of-the-art recording and rehearsing complex,
but hey, it's my money.

The problem with Prince's work, it's that it's just so fucking vast, not only in terms of quantity, but also spread. There a re very few genres he didn't get his hands own and did something interesting, if not mind-boggling.

So how do you get a newbie to grasp how much Prince has been able to bring to the genre? It's no wonder they try to use Purple Rain as the entrance, and rightfully so. By now we're all accustomed to Purple Rain, but this album changed my life forever, and a lot of other lives, as far as I am on the Org.

I don't expect everybody to react as strongly, but you can't ignore it. It's too bold a musical statement, it rips apart your will, it's a fusion of so many genres, and yet it's almost like there's no influence at all, Prince steals everything pop has digested so far and shows it still can be exciting, wild, sexual, romantic, bluesy, spiritual, crazay and longing.

Prince is over-the-chart Pure Grain Vodka.
The public is used to Bud Light®.
Therein lies the problem.

[Edited 5/17/18 18:40pm]

bonatoc said:

FullLipsDotNose said:

You're wrong. There are youngsters out there (myself included) who came to Prince after his death.

Right on.

Van, how do you explain then 3 million and half views for NC2U?

.

Since when is watching a FREE video the same as BUYING an album?

.

How do you explain Bob Marley, The Beatles, Nirvana all made the Billboard albums last year?
Elvis? Still sells. Led Zep? Still sells. Fleetwood Mac? Abba?

.

You're naming artists who've always sold well. Often far more than Prince when he was alive. Marley's greatest hits is usually the best selling reggae album each year, often by a wide margin. Also note that there is plenty of effort going into archival releases for these artists. For Nirvana they even remixed an album because the well of unreleased music has long dried up.

.

Several of those are also artists who help sell magazines. Mojo has at least one Beatles / Zep / etc. cover per year because those are instant sellers. But when mags put Prince on their cover? A big fat nope. (And please, no BS about the "well what about all the mags after his death BS. Completely different circumstances.)

FullLipsDotNose said:

You're wrong. There are youngsters out there (myself included) who came to Prince after his death.

.

Anecdotes aren't data.

BartVanHemelen said:

FullLipsDotNose said:

You're wrong. There are youngsters out there (myself included) who came to Prince after his death.

.

Anecdotes aren't data.

I never understood how U was EVER a fan of Prince.

ChocolateBox3121 said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Anecdotes aren't data.

I never understood how U was EVER a fan of Prince.

.

So you are reflecting about the shape of things but not about the contents.

Why did you deviate? You cannot admit truth?

Wax Poetics won't agree with you...

BartVanHemelen said:

bonatoc said:

.

Since when is watching a FREE video the same as BUYING an album?

.

How do you explain Bob Marley, The Beatles, Nirvana all made the Billboard albums last year?
Elvis? Still sells. Led Zep? Still sells. Fleetwood Mac? Abba?

.

You're naming artists who've always sold well. Often far more than Prince when he was alive. Marley's greatest hits is usually the best selling reggae album each year, often by a wide margin. Also note that there is plenty of effort going into archival releases for these artists. For Nirvana they even remixed an album because the well of unreleased music has long dried up.

.

Several of those are also artists who help sell magazines. Mojo has at least one Beatles / Zep / etc. cover per year because those are instant sellers. But when mags put Prince on their cover? A big fat nope. (And please, no BS about the "well what about all the mags after his death BS. Completely different circumstances.)

BartVanHemelen said:

FullLipsDotNose said:

You're wrong. There are youngsters out there (myself included) who came to Prince after his death.

.

Anecdotes aren't data.

If you say that Prince's fans are over 40 and there are none coming and someone younger than 40 or a new fan comes to you, they don't need statistics - they are a sufficient contradiction to your statements.

udo said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

I never understood how U was EVER a fan of Prince.

.

So you are reflecting about the shape of things but not about the contents.

Why did you deviate? You cannot admit truth?

BartVanHemelen said:

Militant said:

And the response, from this fanbase, was middling, because it is a song that everyone has had for years. Whether you agree with that reaction or not is besides the point - that is simply the fact of what happened.

The only way around this would have been to spend money on marketing the song as a single, to get radio play, maybe make a video for it as they have done for NC2U. They didn't do that, so it is what it is.

.

It would also have helped if the sound quality had been amazing. And that it wasn't a blatant effort at getting fans to buy a disappointing collection.

Agreed. Unfortunately the collection was both too early and too late. Too early because they rushed it out without the care to do an amazing job. Too late cuz the public already streamed everything they wanted to in the months leading up to it.


Ah well. I still bought it, and tried to be optimistic at the time. But more effort should have been put in.

bonatoc said:

FullLipsDotNose said:

You're wrong. There are youngsters out there (myself included) who came to Prince after his death.

Right on.

Van, how do you explain then 3 million and half views for NC2U? We're not that many hardcore fans.

How do you explain Bob Marley, The Beatles, Nirvana all made the Billboard albums last year?
Elvis? Still sells. Led Zep? Still sells. Fleetwood Mac? Abba?

When an artist produces quality, it lasts. Pop music ain't gonna morph into serial dodecaphonic music any day soon.
And the current state of pop is bound to die, you can't repeat yourself for more than thirty decades.
The pattern will still be intro-verse-chorus-verse-bridge-solo-chorus ad lib.
Or a combination of the above. But the fundamentals are there.

Trust us, the young generation knows better.
While autotune may still seduce nine-year-olds,
by thirteen you discover stuff. And since the eighties revival seems to last forever,
since vinyl is back for good, there's no reason to think the champion of them all
is not going to appeal to veryone.

It's not one Prince you have to sell to the public.
It's many, and we're pretty sharp. Prince could have done Purple Rain ad æternam and amass a fortune, bigger than Abba's and Queen combined. He just remembered he's from Uptown.

Fuck NYC, fuck LA, fuck their coke and poses,
I'm staying at home. Sure, it's a huge bet to build a state-of-the-art recording and rehearsing complex,
but hey, it's my money.

The problem with Prince's work, it's that it's just so fucking vast, not only in terms of quantity, but also spread. There a re very few genres he didn't get his hands own and did something interesting, if not mind-boggling.

So how do you get a newbie to grasp how much Prince has been able to bring to the genre? It's no wonder they try to use Purple Rain as the entrance, and rightfully so. By now we're all accustomed to Purple Rain, but this album changed my life forever, and a lot of other lives, as far as I am on the Org.

I don't expect everybody to react as strongly, but you can't ignore it. It's too bold a musical statement, it rips apart your will, it's a fusion of so many genres, and yet it's almost like there's no influence at all, Prince steals everything pop has digested so far and shows it still can be exciting, wild, sexual, romantic, bluesy, spiritual, crazay and longing.

Prince is over-the-chart Pure Grain Vodka.
The public is used to Bud Light®.
Therein lies the problem.

[Edited 5/17/18 18:40pm]

but..those artists mentioned who STILL sell...thats ESTABLISHED music..not unreleased stuff no one trusts YET to be up to par

FullLipsDotNose said:

Vannormal said:

Yeah right. Dream on.

This will never happen imho.

-

Prince's fanbase is over 40/50 years old, and no, it isn't growing.

It might be that there's some more interests just up until now, but years go by fast, and Prince finally will be forgotten by most.

I'm affraid that we are the walking wallets for the estate and WB, if they dicide to release something from the eighties or his much beloved vault.

-

I considder it a wise (music industry) decision from a money-making-machine's point of view, to release the live music of the Piano & Microphone tour. It's much more obvious, and albeit a good decision.

-

An expanded '1999' album release would not make it I'm afraid, although it's that what I want.

You're wrong. There are youngsters out there (myself included) who came to Prince after his death.

There wil always be youngsters like yourself who will discover Prince (after his death). I fully agree.

But that doesn't indicates that his fanbase will grow. Let's see if I'm wrong in two years from now ?

And I have no problem with admitting that I should or could be wrong. (I absolutely don't)

-

By the way, WELCOME to the most incredible Purple Musical labirynth and one of the hardest working performers, ever ! Enjoy it.