Okay the first and 2nd incarnation were basically need of a trim.

But the 94/95 lineup?
Alex says they didn't have distinct voices on their instruments.

Let us stop the tape. To say you can't tell when Sonny is playing or when Michael is jamming is ridiculous.

IMO all of Princes musicians in NPG were distinct voices.


Morris had the church/gospel sense on the organ
Sonny had that bass harmonic thing he did occasionally
Tommy had a distinct sound on the Wurlitzer by the number of pedals he used with it.
Michael had the thunderous drum sound and precision that you could not deny.
Prince was integral part as we all know.

Distinct doesnt mean you have to like the band,if you dont then cool. Distinct
means could you tell them apart from other musicians ?AND the answer is yes.


But when Prince scaled back his band and most of his set productions. That was a DISTINCT band.

I notice this giant Revolution pro stance...
and this anti NPG stance.

Another thing that made me laugh what Alex said about NPG he scolded the Symbol album but praised the "GOLD" song. WTF was he listening? He railed on the symbol album but praised "All that glitters is gold"

IT DONT MAKE SENSE



In Grover voice "Grover knows Alex HAHN make boo boo"

Just the usual "Wendy & Lisa were the brains behind the operation and the subsequent major hip-hop/R&B influence ruined Prince" brigade rhetoric.

Trickology said:

It's not the only one.

Essence said:

basically.

I don't think the author is contesting their talent, or musicianship - but their artistic input into Prince's music.

Prince is best when he surrounded by those who challenge him, musically and personally - and since disbanding the Revolution, he shed more and more layers of musicians and associates who challenged him in any way - artistically and personally.

Those new recruits to the camp were chosen not because they could challenge Prince, but because they could follow his lead.

VelvetSplash said:

...and what's so wrong with that, are you trying to say that Prince can't lead a band?

FirstAvenue said:

What I'm saying is that Michael B. and Sonny T are fantastic musicians - but they failed to ignite any form of creative development in Prince the way people like Wendy, Lisa, Eric, Dez, and Sheila E did.

A fantastic live band, but they didn't introduce Prince to new influences and challenge his creativity in the same the afore mentioned artists did - by which, I don't mean creating music that sounded like the music he made with them, I mean developing his sound, challenging what he created before, and moved it along another step into something new.

I think it is only since TRC that Prince has created something that couldn't be described to some extent as treading water since Sign O' The Times.

VelvetSplash said:

granted. But have u ever seen that NPG lineup live? In the studio they didnt' have a lot of pull, but live, they tore shit up.

They sure did!

I saw them live in '95 on the Gold tour, thought it was fantastic - cemented my opinion of them as being Prince's best live band -

But your original point, in the book, it was referring studio work and influence on Prince's sound, as opposed to touring.

VelvetSplash said:

I know.

VelvetSplash said:

Well Sonny was the guy who actually taught Prince his bass guitar (and some regular guitar) style to a great extent so that's a moot point. MIchael B very distinctive in his heavy drumming.

Also how do we know who influences what and when? We can't see the behind the scenes interaction/jam sessions, the NPG influenced his sound greatly simply by virtue of the differences in post-Revolution style. Whether you like the changes or not is a different story...

Essence said:

it's a simple matter of folks not being able to get out of the past, and appreciate the current work for what it is, which is good...

It's not about whether someone's in the past or not.

I do prefer the pre-89 music, that doesn't mean I don't like the post-89 output.

I find it difficult that anyone could justify the opinion that since '88 Prince has continued to grow as artist in terms of developing and experimenting.

He has put out some great stuff post '89 - But the progress from 1977-87 was absolutely amazing - Again I'm not saying I want him to *sound* like that now - but I feel it's a shame that someone who went through such a musical growth seems to have stalled, and almost regressed so many times after this period.

There are albums from 89-2000 that I find embarrassing, that an artist of Prince's talent, and previous growth, could make such backward music.

New Power Soul & Rave are cases in point.

There's lots of people here who love the 90s stuff more than the 80s stuff - that's fair enough, whatever you like, you like - I for one, don't wanna take that away from anyone - I'm just expressing my disappointment in Prince's musical progress since 1988.

Essence said:

I agree with you.I dont know why this guy didn't just write a book about Wendy & Lisa and be done with it.Oh yeah,maybe cuz it wouldnt sell...?

MrTation said:

---
Of course it would not sell. So he writes a book about Prince and goes on and on about how great Wendy and Lisa were. It is typical.

there's no denying the wonderful music with lisa & wendy was far more adventurous & memerable than anything from 1989 2 date.
they crafted great pop songs as oppossed 2 the last decades good funk/jazz jams.

The 94/95 NPG was his best "live" band, period! The best way to determine this is by aftershow performances of his various bands where they were really able to stretch. I have seen over 200 aftershows, Paisley gigs, and club shows from 1983 to 2000. All his bands were great, but the 94/95 lineup was just too tight. They had all been with him for five+ years and were completely locked musically.

The stuff they played at a few private Paisley parties (that were only attended by maybe 40-50 people), was unbelievable. No bootlegs exist of them unfortunately. But I remember wishing that Prince would do shows like this for MTV Unplugged,(which almost happened), as they were really raw and intense. And also remember thinking that this was the most perfect band I had ever heard.

Too bad there isn't more bootleg material available with this lineup. There is some awesome stuff that would make collectors cry if they heard it.

As far as contributing musically to his song writing compared to Wendy/Lisa, that is purely on Prince. During that time much of his songs were re-worked in the studio so much that the contributions of the band weren't as revealing as would have been. The rough cuts of the songs were much better than the polished released versions. The performance of "Dolphin" on David Letterman is a little closer to how all the songs from that period could of sounded on record. The possibilties were scary.