NouveauDance said:

Strive said:

This interview is a little sadder once you read Mayte's book and see that this is just a facade introduced by Larry Graham. He was the one pushing Prince to the idea that absolute faith would make things turn out alright and that unshakable faith in Christ would be rewarded. The last part of the interview kinda confirms that when he goes "I think, yes, I know I'm happy. I have all I need."

How do you know that it wasn't?

Genesia said:

Strive said:

This interview is a little sadder once you read Mayte's book and see that this is just a facade introduced by Larry Graham. He was the one pushing Prince to the idea that absolute faith would make things turn out alright and that unshakable faith in Christ would be rewarded. The last part of the interview kinda confirms that when he goes "I think, yes, I know I'm happy. I have all I need."

How do you know that it wasn't?

Mayte never being able to conceive, two failed marriages and dying alone in an elevator doesn't really seem like he was rewarded on this Earth for his faith. Let's hope he was rewarded in the next.

Strive said:

This interview is a little sadder once you read Mayte's book and see that this is just a facade introduced by Larry Graham. He was the one pushing Prince to the idea that absolute faith would make things turn out alright and that unshakable faith in Christ would be rewarded. The last part of the interview kinda confirms that when he goes "I think, yes, I know I'm happy. I have all I need."

I don't think that Larry Graham played a role in Prince's views expressed in this interview with Top of the Pops because the interview took place prior to meeting Larry Graham. In The Most Beautiful, Mayte wrote on p. 233 about the night when and Larry met, in the summer of 1997. She wrote that on the night when they met, had played a show at the Pyramid Arena in Memphis, TN. Per Prince Vault, Prince played the Pyramid Arena in Memphis on August 23, 1997: http://www.princevault.co...gust_1997.

.

Strive said:

Genesia said:

How do you know that it wasn't?

Mayte never being able to conceive, two failed marriages and dying alone in an elevator doesn't really seem like he was rewarded on this Earth for his faith. Let's hope he was rewarded in the next.

.

Mayte was able to conceive two times, the first being Amiir and the second being a miscarriage.

.......

I am a practicing Catholic, so I believe in God. That being said, God does not just give a person everything that he/she wants. God has given every person the gift of free will, including the free will to accept or reject God, and in the case of Christians, to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour.

.......

God blessed Prince with immense talent. Prince used that talent to become one of the greatest musicians to ever live. He used his talent to make a whole lot of money. He used his talent to gain millions of fans.

.

Prince created music containing sexual content that was contrary to his faith. He wrestled with the issues of balancing his faith and sex. After all, he wrote the songs "Temptation" and "Anna Stesia".

.

Prince had trust/attachement/abandonment issues stemming from childhood that, as far as I know, he never really addressed with counseling/therapy.

.

wrote in a letter to Mayte in 1994/1995, will never leave u" 16 times. (Source: The Most Beautiful, pp. 134-135)

.

Did ever seek out counseling in order to help he and Mayte deal with their grief from losing Amiir? Not to my knowledge. (Mayte could have pursued counseling, but was 16 years older than her and she was 22 when she gave birth to Amiir.)

.

Did ever undergo genetic testing like Mayte did following the miscarriage? (Source: The Most Beautiful, p. 237) Not to my knowledge.

.

wrote on a CD that he made for Mayte for their second anniversary, February 14th, 1998 (mislabelled as their first anniversary in her book) - "'Til no thing do us part...love U Mayte". (Source: The Most Beautiful, photographs)

.

He and Mayte could have adopted children, but they did not. She was interested in adopting, but he was not (Source: The Most Beautiful).

.

It was Prince's decision to slowly "move on" from Mayte after Amiir's death and the miscarriage.

is the one who requested the "annullment". The annullment was not a legal procedure or a religious procedure; it's probably a procedure that he contrived himself. After all, he was very creative.

.

was the one running around with Mani while still married to Mayte and also while studying to become a JW. (Source: The Most Beautiful)

.

He did not try to get back together with Mayte, even though she would have returned to him. She reached out to him, and he didn't return her communications. They saw each other in 2007 in Vegas when she came to one of his shows, and he didn't get try to get back with her then. (Source: The Most Beautiful)

.

Did he seek help for his dependence/abuse of/addiction to painkillers? No (or not until it was too late).

.

I love what Bodhitheblackdog wrote on The Most Beautiful: My Life with Prince Book Club: Part 2, 6:35pm of http://prince.org/msg/5/4...amp;pg=17, Reply #506 posted 04/10/17. The context is different (the discussion was about the end of his first marriage), but the principle still rings true:

"He was flawed, he did mess up and despite his control freak persona I'm sure his vulnerability, despair, and confusion blazed like a beacon for all to see. He carried within him the seeds of his own destruction...it's Greek tragedy, Chanhassen style."

.

The end of his life was a Greek tragedy, Chanhassen style because he was an adult, and it was within his control to deal with his trust/abandonment/attachment issues. He was an adult and it was within his control to deal with his pain, physical and emotional.

.

Sometimes, life throws things at a person that overwhelms his or her coping skills. In these situations, often times the only thing that a person can do is to (a) admit that he or she can't handle the issues and (b) seek help/support for dealing with the issues.

.

I love the man dearly, flaws and all. He was a special musician and a special human being. (Notice that of all the women with whom he associated, NOT ONE OF THEM has accused him of sexual harrassment). However, he had demons (especially, trust/abandomnment/attachment issues that he did not address) which played a role in his marriages failing. He was a control-freak in many ways. He did not exhaust all avenues in order to have children. He did not exhaust all avenues in order to address his dependence/abuse of/addiction to painkillers. I love the man dearly, but he made a lot of decisions that led to the events of 04/21/2016.

DonRants said:

A lot of Prince fans like to blame Larry Graham for Prince's conversion to Jehovah's Witness. Nothing is further from the truth. Prince was raised 7th day Adventist and his mom had made the conversion years earlier and wished the same for him. Larry was only able to "convert" Prince because he had already been searching.

I don't blame anyone else for anything. Prince was an adult, he made his choices. I am not gonna blame others just because people don't like the choices he made.

Strive said:

This interview is a little sadder once you read Mayte's book and see that this is just a facade introduced by Larry Graham. He was the one pushing Prince to the idea that absolute faith would make things turn out alright and that unshakable faith in Christ would be rewarded. The last part of the interview kinda confirms that when he goes "I think, yes, I know I'm happy. I have all I need."

[Edited 3/20/18 0:22am]

Strive said:

Genesia said:

How do you know that it wasn't?

Mayte never being able to conceive, two failed marriages and dying alone in an elevator doesn't really seem like he was rewarded on this Earth for his faith. Let's hope he was rewarded in the next.

DonRants said:

A lot of Prince fans like to blame Larry Graham for Prince's conversion to Jehovah's Witness. Nothing is further from the truth. Prince was raised 7th day Adventist and his mom had made the conversion years earlier and wished the same for him. Larry was only able to "convert" Prince because he had already been searching.

His mom was Baptist.

206Michelle said:

His mom was Baptist.

[Edited 3/20/18 0:19am]

Jeez, I didn't mean to start a firestorm in here.

Let me try to better explain myself. In Mayte's book, she stated that after the loss of their first child, when the doctor wanted to run tests with the next pregnancy - Prince refused. With the reason being that it was in God's hands. As if running a test was doubting God and opening yourself up to his wrath.

Prince was born with an amazing gift but he also worked his ass off nearly nonstop to reach the heights he did and make it look effortless. And even though that work gave him fame & untold wealth, it also left his personal life hollow. The idea that Prince felt he had to become the personification of music after other doors were closed to him is tragic. The way his story ended is tragic.

My post wasn't meant to put down Christianity or mock Prince's faith. I was being sincere when I said that I hoped he was rewarded in the next life for what he believed.

And if Larry Graham wasn't the source of that idea, he fanned the flames until it became an inferno. That doesn't mean I hate Larry Graham or put sole responsibility on him. The fact Prince was still referencing The Matrix in 2014 points to him gravitating to things that confirmed whatever was floating around his brain. George Clinton, Graham, The Matrix, whatever source, probably just brought the thoughts into focus.

DonRants said:

Thank you for sharing! That part he started explaining how his songs are about sex yes but not about promiscious sex though, haha....as usual, made me cringe a bit. Not one of his most level-headed interviews....

Either I have gotten the timeline wrong or I'm misreading the interview, but I thought that Prince asking the interviewer to show him her pubic hair was during the Dirty Mind era and not the Lovesexy era?

206Michelle said:

Her own obituary states that her funeral took place at a Baptist church. Prince’s mom passes away at 68: http://prince.org/msg/5001/9182

You do not have to be a member of a church to have your funeral or obituary there. The following article states clearly that his parents were 7thDay adventist, a point I have seen repeated many times. But wheter they were or not is not the point, the main point is Prince was super-religious before Larry and was searching for something. He would not have been open to Larry Graham if he wasn't. Prince always was his own man. But fans, act as if Larry brainwashed him....there is enough evidence to suggest otherwise.

https://www.billboard.com...tness-life

benni said:

"People hear the sex in my songs much more than I ever write it"

.

So it is all our fault?

Strive said:

Genesia said:

How do you know that it wasn't?

Mayte never being able to conceive, two failed marriages and dying alone in an elevator doesn't really seem like he was rewarded on this Earth for his faith. Let's hope he was rewarded in the next.

Everyone goes through trials and troubles in their lives. Those who have faith believe it is that that helps them survive the bad times. Prince's faith brought him a kind of peace he might not have been able to achieve without it.

We all die. And when we do - even if we are surrounded by loved ones - it is a solitary activity.

Maybe he was just afraid of the test results and jinxing the second pregnancy, Also, he was not full=fledged JW yet so maybe his spiritual beliefs were a hybrid at the time. Mayte hopefully did what was best for her because it was her body carrying that baby. Eventually it sounds like she did. Not saying the father does not have a voice but a bad pregnancy affects the woman's health obviously--not the man's.

i also would not go so far as to call his personal life hollow but it was limited, stunted and wrapped around his work and a degree of delusion and his imagination. its like his life consisted of a series of bonding moments with his lovers, mentorees, pen pals (Tamron, Neal) and employees that at times were loving and friendly (even momentarily open) but never materialized into longterm relationships. Probably the reason why different associates define friendship differently where Prince was concerned. A degree of affection and even momentary mutual understanding but not enough true sympatico understanding, unconditional loyality or longterm intimacy to be defined as traditional friendship. Hollow-no, a bit stunted--yes. The man spread himself way too thin and compartmentalized his personal life to protect himself from perceived possible harms and support his musical obsessions. I used to be cynical about the need for psychaitry for people who werent seriously mentally ill (schizophrenics etc) but Prince has convinced me otherwise. Therapy might have helped him.

DonRants said:

Thanks for clarifying Strive. I understand what you were suggesting, I still disagree with how you see things...but I understand your point of view. For instance, I think it is great that Prince found his purpose in life early and pursued it without distraction. And I don't know if that resulted in him having a "hollow" personal life. But I see what you were saying about the Mayte's medical test situation. That was definitely strange...but again Prince's faiths don't believe in a wrathful god. Jehovah's Witnesses don't even believe in hell. So Prince's motivation may be his own fears and not what we think they are.

[Edited 3/22/18 9:51am]

[Edited 3/22/18 9:54am]

"So what did make him so unhappy? His body suddenly stiffens. “That’s not important now,” he snaps, retreating on his confession. Then, just as quickly his voice softens. “What does matter is that I am happy now.”

I wonder what it was that made him unhappy to the point that he doesn't want to answer this question

purplerabbithole said:

Maybe he was just afraid of the test results and jinxing the second pregnancy, Also, he was not full=fledged JW yet so maybe his spiritual beliefs were a hybrid at the time. Mayte hopefully did what was best for her because it was her body carrying that baby. Eventually it sounds like she did. Not saying the father does not have a voice but a bad pregnancy affects the woman's health obviously--not the man's.

i also would not go so far as to call his personal life hollow but it was limited, stunted and wrapped around his work and a degree of delusion and his imagination. its like his life consisted of a series of bonding moments with his lovers, mentorees, pen pals (Tamron, Neal) and employees that at times were loving and friendly (even momentarily open) but never materialized into longterm relationships. Probably the reason why different associates define friendship differently where Prince was concerned. A degree of affection and even momentary mutual understanding but not enough true sympatico understanding, unconditional loyality or longterm intimacy to be defined as traditional friendship. Hollow-no, a bit stunted--yes. The man spread himself way too thin and compartmentalized his personal life to protect himself from perceived possible harms and support his musical obsessions. I used to be cynical about the need for psychaitry for people who werent seriously mentally ill (schizophrenics etc) but Prince has convinced me otherwise. Therapy might have helped him.

DonRants said:

Thanks for clarifying Strive. I understand what you were suggesting, I still disagree with how you see things...but I understand your point of view. For instance, I think it is great that Prince found his purpose in life early and pursued it without distraction. And I don't know if that resulted in him having a "hollow" personal life. But I see what you were saying about the Mayte's medical test situation. That was definitely strange...but again Prince's faiths don't believe in a wrathful god. Jehovah's Witnesses don't even believe in hell. So Prince's motivation may be his own fears and not what we think they are.

[Edited 3/22/18 9:51am]

[Edited 3/22/18 9:54am]

i will say this and i'll admit it maybe totally unfair. but i think he lived in a soap opera world. the drama, the love, the outcomes. i really think he was making a lot of music, living a fantasy and watching more tv than we think or he admitted too. the stunted description you describes makes

me really think this. i think it was an ultimate escape, tv and movies for him.

Speculating here.......It was not hollow. It was messy and probably messier than it needed to be. Real life mixed in with delusion, art, imagination, some paranoia. I don't think he liked drama. I think he didn't know how to deal with the confusing aspects of life (and most particularly his life) without throwing himself into his imagination and compartmentalizing himself. Weirdly he created more drama (mostly as a habit) in an attempt to avoid facing harder and more painful truths. I don't think he lacked feeling or sensitivity. He lacked the ability to deal with the myriad of thoughts and conflicted feelings in his head. Also, I think he was raised (culturally and in other ways) to not admit his vulnerabilty...this made it hard to fix what was hurting. Music was both his expression of himself and his escape. Yes, he watched lots of tv. I like that Lala stated that PRince used to cry in movies. I do that all the time. I dont know about you but I am the type of person who feels like she connects with the cashier she has a five minute conversation with. I like people, I am forgiving, I love my family but I suck at keeping in touch with friends from my past and taking friendly interaction into full-fledged friendships. I can be talkative and comfortable in controlled settings (I am a teacher) but I am deep down rather shy. I am literally nervous about calling my cousin (whom I never had a bad interaction with but whom I havent talked to in ten years) even though she told me on facebook to give her a call. Maybe I am seeing that in him.

purplefam99 said:

purplerabbithole said:

Maybe he was just afraid of the test results and jinxing the second pregnancy, Also, he was not full=fledged JW yet so maybe his spiritual beliefs were a hybrid at the time. Mayte hopefully did what was best for her because it was her body carrying that baby. Eventually it sounds like she did. Not saying the father does not have a voice but a bad pregnancy affects the woman's health obviously--not the man's.

i also would not go so far as to call his personal life hollow but it was limited, stunted and wrapped around his work and a degree of delusion and his imagination. its like his life consisted of a series of bonding moments with his lovers, mentorees, pen pals (Tamron, Neal) and employees that at times were loving and friendly (even momentarily open) but never materialized into longterm relationships. Probably the reason why different associates define friendship differently where Prince was concerned. A degree of affection and even momentary mutual understanding but not enough true sympatico understanding, unconditional loyality or longterm intimacy to be defined as traditional friendship. Hollow-no, a bit stunted--yes. The man spread himself way too thin and compartmentalized his personal life to protect himself from perceived possible harms and support his musical obsessions. I used to be cynical about the need for psychaitry for people who werent seriously mentally ill (schizophrenics etc) but Prince has convinced me otherwise. Therapy might have helped him.

[Edited 3/22/18 9:51am]

[Edited 3/22/18 9:54am]

i will say this and i'll admit it maybe totally unfair. but i think he lived in a soap opera world. the drama, the love, the outcomes. i really think he was making a lot of music, living a fantasy and watching more tv than we think or he admitted too. the stunted description you describes makes

me really think this. i think it was an ultimate escape, tv and movies for him.

[Edited 3/22/18 18:35pm]

I wonder which part was too candid. I don't feel I learned anymore than I've already knew, honestly. He must of liked this reporter and felt more flirty.

DonRants said:

DonRants said:

purplefam99 said:

When he gets a friend whom he can share it with all of a sudden it’s the friends Fault.

.

It is.

Because we know Prince's relgigious materials from e.g. Lovesexy.

We know his ways of saying, doing, etc.

And then comes this other person which changes all of that into more extreme, restrictive religious outings.

It did not change for the better after the otehr person became involved.

So it is their fault.

And yes, it did show another Prince weakness.

Strive said:

Genesia said:

How do you know that it wasn't?

Mayte never being able to conceive, two failed marriages and dying alone in an elevator doesn't really seem like he was rewarded on this Earth for his faith. Let's hope he was rewarded in the next.

Not to offend but I think Prince was rewarded on earth. He is still being discussed and revered as a great man, a genius, and for his beauty. Prince was so much more than a lover or casanova . He was able to help so many people and understood his celebrity and money allowed him the opportunity to help others in ways some others could not .

.

Never met him but from reading of him after his death and listening to his music and reading his lyrics he was a deeply spiritual man so his reward on earth goes way deeper than the avg person. I think he got what it really means to be rewarded and he had that and will have that til the end of time. His legend is growing. His music will be what is important and how he changed pop culture and how he truly helped others at least I am hoping that will be the focus.