herb4 said:

I always thought "What's My Name" was insanely complex and layered. Would songwriters agree?

It's not complex.

It's over-produced.

It's basically a very simple song, based on one chord, splitt in two pieces.

Although :

the breaks are unique.

The slappin' bass is wild

the screaming is alone possible by Prince

the programming is sadly enough mixed way to the back

and that drumming is off the hook.

Not crazy about that song really, but sure hell it's impossible to make - let alone cover it.

Wally

&

Crystal Ball

Princes music wasnt really complex. He may have played around with complex arrangements and production but the writing itself was usually pretty simple.

While Prince was alive, I never learnt to play his stuff. I usually found that learning a favourite artists songs somehow demystified them. I spent my teens and early 20's learning every single Elton John song on piano and whenever I heard a new Elton album, I could predict where each song was heading before it got there.

After Prince died, I decided I'd learn how to play his released material. One thing that surprised me was how complex the chord progressions were on his first album. You could tell he was heavily influenced by the soul guys from that era who in themselves were influenced by the jazz guys before them. Lots of fun standard jazzy progressions with some unusual melodies over the top.

I think Prince realised (around Dirty Mind) that simple was better - although "Got a broken Heart again" has a beautiful progression and could easily fit on his debut album.

I dont think Princes 'genius' has anything to do with how complex or intricate his music is. To me, its how he managed to almost never repeat himself musically over 40 or so albums. Plus, by keeping the writing simple, he was able to use fill in the spaces and make the tune sound more complex than it really was.

Just my 2 pence...

yxl1

[Edited 3/1/18 5:20am]

luvsexy4all said:

power fantastic

This is a good one, and is the song I was going to post up.

I'm not a music theory composition expert at all but to my ears it sounds like the tempo(?) or beat(?) is a bit different from most Prince songs (meaning not your traditional 1,2,3,4 1,2,3,4).

And although it is similar in tone (and that might be why) I'm wondering if Somewhere Here On Earth is the same...?

eyewishuheaven said:

It never gets enough credit, but Scandalous is a monster, harmonically. Those chords are nuuutritious, and deeelicious!

I totally agree!

I think that most of the songs on Diamonds and Pearls are quite intricate and complex.

Thunder

Daddy Pop

Diamonds and Pearls

Strollin'

Willing and Able

Gett Off

Walk Don't Walk - the sound effects

Money Don't Matter 2 Night - simple production and instrumentation, but very complex lyrics

Insatiable

Live 4 Love

Some interesting replies, thanks.

I can't add my grain of salt because I don't not know music theory.

I think a lot of replies misunderstand the OP's question: just because a song sounds complex or intricate to non-musicians ears doesn't mean it really is. In any case, if you're gonna drop a title please explain yourself and do it from a technical perspective. I may be wrong but I don't think the OP wishes to know which songs are esthetically challenging, because any of us with a good knowledge of pop history can tell that.

I'm really interested in the topic so if the musicians and people fluent in music theory here want to elaborate on why certain compositions are challenging or complex, I'd really love to read more of that

Vannormal said:

herb4 said:

I always thought "What's My Name" was insanely complex and layered. Would songwriters agree?

It's not complex.

It's over-produced.

It's basically a very simple song, based on one chord, splitt in two pieces.

Although :

the breaks are unique.

The slappin' bass is wild

the screaming is alone possible by Prince

the programming is sadly enough mixed way to the back

and that drumming is off the hook.

Not crazy about that song really, but sure hell it's impossible to make - let alone cover it.

Interesting. Thanks for the response. It SOUNDS complex in the way that Judas Smile, Silicon or Dance On do but I'm not a musician so maybe it's the thick layers of sound that makes me think it is. I like that style when he does it - the mad scientist approach - where layers and layers of sound come together in a cohesive way somehow and the song peels like an onion for the ears.

Calhoun Square falls into this category for me as well. Joint to Joint. Love 2 the 9s. I never thought of them as "over produced" so much as Peter Gabriel or Zappa-esque in their execution. I honestly don't know what constitutes a "well written song" but the examples I'm citing certainly seem complex and intricate to my ears.

KeithyT said:

luvsexy4all said:

power fantastic

This is a good one, and is the song I was going to post up.

I'm not a music theory composition expert at all but to my ears it sounds like the tempo(?) or beat(?) is a bit different from most Prince songs (meaning not your traditional 1,2,3,4 1,2,3,4).

And although it is similar in tone (and that might be why) I'm wondering if Somewhere Here On Earth is the same...?

Beat's the correct term, or even more properly, time signature. Tempo is just how fast it goes (beats per minute).

And you're quite right: Power Fantastic has a time signature of 3/4, or 'waltz time', a rarity for Prince. Somewhere Here On Earth is in the same neighbourhood (6/8 time), but not technically waltz time.

Computer Blue (Hallway Speech version)- So many layers to this song and musical ranges and styles. Somehow it all comes together is a friggin awesome masterpiece.

yxl1 said:

Princes music wasnt really complex. He may have played around with complex arrangements and production but the writing itself was usually pretty simple.

While Prince was alive, I never learnt to play his stuff. I usually found that learning a favourite artists songs somehow demystified them. I spent my teens and early 20's learning every single Elton John song on piano and whenever I heard a new Elton album, I could predict where each song was heading before it got there.

After Prince died, I decided I'd learn how to play his released material. One thing that surprised me was how complex the chord progressions were on his first album. You could tell he was heavily influenced by the soul guys from that era who in themselves were influenced by the jazz guys before them. Lots of fun standard jazzy progressions with some unusual melodies over the top.

I think Prince realised (around Dirty Mind) that simple was better - although "Got a broken Heart again" has a beautiful progression and could easily fit on his debut album.

I dont think Princes 'genius' has anything to do with how complex or intricate his music is. To me, its how he managed to almost never repeat himself musically over 40 or so albums. Plus, by keeping the writing simple, he was able to use fill in the spaces and make the tune sound more complex than it really was.

Just my 2 pence...

yxl1

[Edited 3/1/18 5:20am]

Absolutely agree.

Couldn't possibly put it any better.

thanks !

Wally obviously.

Musician9 said:

JohnCragg said:

RodeoSchro said: I’m sorry RodeoSchro, but I think you’re over the top in your assessment of ‘Take Me With U’. It’s essentially a simple song with some slightly quirky but nothing to get quite THAT excited about chords here and there. I can play it too on guitar, it’s a lot of fun

lol, you're so right. And truthfully speaking it's the weakest track on the album if I had to choose myself. IMO 2 reasons P kept it - 1) because he saw the dailys for the film he clearly saw that it fit the motorcycle scene to a T, and 2) he realized that it would be a good sing along/call and response song for live shows. So, this sorta condemns the song to functionality. I mean the tune didn't even feature on the first two configurations of the album and it was recorded before the March configuration. And remember, because TMWU Computer Blue and Let's Go Crazy had to be shortened. And it was recorded before When Doves Cry yet was added only after that fact.

It wasn't on the first two configurations because it was slated for the Appolonia 6 album. Prince worked more on "Take Me With U" than he had on any other song in his career (to that point). A lot of the work was with Appolonia's singing, but much work was done and re-done on the music.

The end result was a song that Prince felt was so strong that he took it from Appolonia 6 and put it on his own career-defining album. All of this is documented in Duane Tudahl's book.

You and I might differ on the song but it's beyond argument that Prince thought it was one of his best. That's why he took it from Appolonia; that's why he fiddled with the bridge years after it was written; and that's why he continued to use it as a concert staple to the very end of his life even though it was the weakest-selling single off "Purple Rain".

2freaky4church1 said:

Wally obviously.

Wally is great.

RodeoSchro said:

Musician9 said:

lol, you're so right. And truthfully speaking it's the weakest track on the album if I had to choose myself. IMO 2 reasons P kept it - 1) because he saw the dailys for the film he clearly saw that it fit the motorcycle scene to a T, and 2) he realized that it would be a good sing along/call and response song for live shows. So, this sorta condemns the song to functionality. I mean the tune didn't even feature on the first two configurations of the album and it was recorded before the March configuration. And remember, because TMWU Computer Blue and Let's Go Crazy had to be shortened. And it was recorded before When Doves Cry yet was added only after that fact.

It wasn't on the first two configurations because it was slated for the Appolonia 6 album. Prince worked more on "Take Me With U" than he had on any other song in his career (to that point). A lot of the work was with Appolonia's singing, but much work was done and re-done on the music.

The end result was a song that Prince felt was so strong that he took it from Appolonia 6 and put it on his own career-defining album. All of this is documented in Duane Tudahl's book.

You and I might differ on the song but it's beyond argument that Prince thought it was one of his best. That's why he took it from Appolonia; that's why he fiddled with the bridge years after it was written; and that's why he continued to use it as a concert staple to the very end of his life even though it was the weakest-selling single off "Purple Rain".

What I love about TMWU is that there's absolutely no hint of anything like it in his entire back catalogue up to that point. I only came aboard with Purple Rain (I was 13 in '84), and I'm so envious of people who'd been into Prince since '78 hearing TMWU for the first time; whether they liked it or not is irrelevant... just the splash of hearing a song that was utterly unlike anything he'd ever done.