Lovejunky said:

RodeoSchro said:

I'm a geek when it comes to "Take Me With U" but if you'll indulge me...

* The chordal melody starts on the 2, not on the 1
* While Prince plays a D and then an E on "I don't care where we go" etc., the keyboard is playing a whole different chord progression
* That bridge! Dropping down to an Fmaj7? Whoo! And then 10 years later, adding a G/A chord for one measure? I orgasmed the first time I heard that!
* And the chords in the second part of the bridge. It's like the song goes from pop to jazz for 30 seconds
* It's got all this incredible music happening but underneath is a bass line playing straight 8th notes - but the note played for the verse is an A, not an F# (root chord of the verse)

Forgive my nerdiness!

You have a very sexy Brain Rodeoschro..

Thanks! But really, I'm just a "Take Me With U" nerd/honk. You ought to see how uncool I get when people say it's the same song as "RockNRollLoveAffair"!

ufoclub said:

Is there a easy link to a typical performance where he added the different cord live? The hook on Take Me With You (for me) is the drop down in the bass notes when they hit lyrics like “I don’t care if we spend the night in your mansion”. I do wish the female vocal was better, it sounds just the slightest bit off key to me.

I like that Apples is a bit off key.

Its one of the things that makes the song unique.

I'd say some of Prince's most complex stuff is his sparsest. Only a really top-notch musician (composer or performer) can sustain silence. And I mean top notch of the top notch. It's not easy to make something like Cloreen Baconskin or Housequake work because there's not a lot going on. But what's going on is placed just right, so that it does. It really is all about the space between the notes, so that the notes have even more impact.

That said, Crystal Ball stands out for how he put together sounds in a way nobody else would. And Kamasutra has some moments like that, too.

I'd also agree with a lot of what others have said about the densely-layered stuff. Making layers work in an interesting way that doesn't sound cluttered isn't easy. And I'd say that's one thing that makes some of Prince's work so durable - you can come back to it again and again, and you always hear something new.

It never gets enough credit, but Scandalous is a monster, harmonically. Those chords are nuuutritious, and deeelicious!

power fantastic

Wolfie87 said:

RodeoSchro said:

Take Me With U" in there, for three reasons: (1) the opening in F and moving to F# minor is insane; (2) the bridge is completely insane; and (3) Prince changed one chord in the bridge ten years after he recorded it, which is off-the-charts insane. Not to mention that Prince took more time recording and mixing this song than any song he'd ever written (up to that point)

"

And still it's considered universally as the weakest song by far on Purple Rain. Go figure.

not by me! and being the weakest track on an album filled with impossibly great songs is not a terribly distinction anyway.

i love tmwu. it's pure sunshine, summer captured in a song. i even love apollonia's vocal - it's amateurish, i suppose, but in a way that gives the song a bit of diy new-wave energy.

i know nothing about music or time signatures, so i'll defer to the educated ones on that topic. i just think it's up there among prince's perfect pop moments.

I just heard a version of "Take Me With U" that is brand-new to me! Questlove played it at his Super Bowl Party set. It's a jazzy version, not pop at all. Lots and lots of phaser in the mix. And Apples's vocals (or maybe Jill's, hard to say) are really in the forefront on her verse. I'm trying to find out if that was an early version of the song, or a re-mix. I only got to hear about a minute of it. "Just take me with you, with you, with you, with you." It is COMPLETELY different than what I've ever heard.

On another note - literally - have you ever realized how often Prince used stops in his rock songs? A "stop" is just that - the instruments stop but the vocals don't.

I'm arranging a jam session for some buddies and we're going to play LOTS of Prince rock and roll. I was surprised at how many songs have stops, usually when say the name of the song. Examples:

"Take Me With U" (live version)
"Guitar"
"Screwdriver"
"I Like It There"
"RockNRollLoveAffair"
"Let's Go Crazy"

There are probably a lot more that I haven't thought about. But of all the song-writing techniques, this seems to be the one Prince used the most; at least, that I can think of.

If/when I hear more about that "Take Me With U" version, I'll post it here. It was mind-blowing (mainly because it was unknown to me, not that I like it better than the released versions).

LOVE reading these posts about his musical craftmanship ... MORE!

partyup77 said:

LOVE reading these posts about his musical craftmanship ... MORE!

Then you will LOVE Duane Tudahl's book about the Purple Rain years! Have you read it yet? It's incredible!

One thing from the book that really surprised me was that (at least back then), Prince would write the music first, and then the lyrics. Most of the time, a song would pop into his head. He'd come up with the melody, instruments, solos, etc. all in his mind. Then he would put what he'd heard in his mind onto tape. Sometimes he'd record the whole song; sometimes it would be demos on guitar or keyboard. But he'd have the music done, one way or another.

And THEN he would write the lyrics to the song.

I'm no songwriter. Maybe that's the way most songwriters do it? I don't know. I just know that on the few songs that I've tried to write, I generally knew what I wanted to write about before I came up with any music.

Prince's mind was surely on a level that mine cannot comprehend.

RodeoSchro said:

partyup77 said:

LOVE reading these posts about his musical craftmanship ... MORE!

Then you will LOVE Duane Tudahl's book about the Purple Rain years! Have you read it yet? It's incredible!

One thing from the book that really surprised me was that (at least back then), Prince would write the music first, and then the lyrics. Most of the time, a song would pop into his head. He'd come up with the melody, instruments, solos, etc. all in his mind. Then he would put what he'd heard in his mind onto tape. Sometimes he'd record the whole song; sometimes it would be demos on guitar or keyboard. But he'd have the music done, one way or another.

And THEN he would write the lyrics to the song.

I'm no songwriter. Maybe that's the way most songwriters do it? I don't know. I just know that on the few songs that I've tried to write, I generally knew what I wanted to write about before I came up with any music.

Prince's mind was surely on a level that mine cannot comprehend.

only guy I can remember who shared his method was John Fogerty.. who apparently has this brown little notebook he carries with himself (now this may be a true story or his own myth making). But he first finds inspiration with a title.. then thinks... HEY that'd make a great song! and then writes the music then the words.

I think he did a segment on Conan about a couple of years ago (which means it was probably something like 7 years ago... cause my reference point excludes the 3 years in a funk after family loss). maybe 8.

complicated Prince music...

paraded said:

RodeoSchro said:

partyup77 said:

LOVE reading these posts about his musical craftmanship ... MORE!

Then you will LOVE Duane Tudahl's book about the Purple Rain years! Have you read it yet? It's incredible!

One thing from the book that really surprised me was that (at least back then), Prince would write the music first, and then the lyrics. Most of the time, a song would pop into his head. He'd come up with the melody, instruments, solos, etc. all in his mind. Then he would put what he'd heard in his mind onto tape. Sometimes he'd record the whole song; sometimes it would be demos on guitar or keyboard. But he'd have the music done, one way or another.

And THEN he would write the lyrics to the song.

I'm no songwriter. Maybe that's the way most songwriters do it? I don't know. I just know that on the few songs that I've tried to write, I generally knew what I wanted to write about before I came up with any music.

Prince's mind was surely on a level that mine cannot comprehend.

Fascinating! I have the book on my Amazon shopping list but have not yet made the purchase - this is a nice nudge!!

RodeoSchro said:

partyup77 said:

LOVE reading these posts about his musical craftmanship ... MORE!

Then you will LOVE Duane Tudahl's book about the Purple Rain years! Have you read it yet? It's incredible!

One thing from the book that really surprised me was that (at least back then), Prince would write the music first, and then the lyrics. Most of the time, a song would pop into his head. He'd come up with the melody, instruments, solos, etc. all in his mind. Then he would put what he'd heard in his mind onto tape. Sometimes he'd record the whole song; sometimes it would be demos on guitar or keyboard. But he'd have the music done, one way or another.

And THEN he would write the lyrics to the song.

I'm no songwriter. Maybe that's the way most songwriters do it? I don't know. I just know that on the few songs that I've tried to write, I generally knew what I wanted to write about before I came up with any music.

Prince's mind was surely on a level that mine cannot comprehend.

Interesting. To me the words and music come together in my head, mostly when i'm walking outside, so i carry the recorder at all times. If i dont take it from the first take, than it's lost - i don't have that good memory to remember a full new song of 5 minutes for the first time and only then to repiclate it all. It comes to me completely, bridge and solo's and all. Those words are afterwards most often changed, at very least improved on.

Adonis and Bathsheba! Very intricate interplay between the music and lyrics and feels original.

Pink Cashmere also notable and beautiful!

Christopher Tracy's Parade is also interesting and varied musically.

[Edited 2/9/18 14:19pm]

RodeoSchro said:

Computer Blue, Crystal Ball, 17 Days, Tambourine, TRC,

Joy In Repetition

I'd like to bump this thread in the name of "Joint 2 Joint"!

It's seems to be four different scenes (back to that in a sec...).

At the opening of 'Emancipation' the "door" opens, then it "slams shut" after the title track.

When "Joint 2 Joint" starts, it sounds like a "secret door" opens and we get Prince back to business.

Genius business.

Although slight, there are definately four parts of the song, but in the fourth part, he somehow brings the first three parts altogether.

Does anyone else hear that?

The only thing constant is the BPM.

Silly lyrics aside, the arrangement goes all over the place and makes me smile everytime i hear it!

Truly "sick"

Prost!

Joy in Repetition, Dorothy Parker, 17 Days

JohnCragg said:

RodeoSchro said:

I'm a geek when it comes to "Take Me With U" but if you'll indulge me...

* The chordal melody starts on the 2, not on the 1
* While Prince plays a D and then an E on "I don't care where we go" etc., the keyboard is playing a whole different chord progression
* That bridge! Dropping down to an Fmaj7? Whoo! And then 10 years later, adding a G/A chord for one measure? I orgasmed the first time I heard that!
* And the chords in the second part of the bridge. It's like the song goes from pop to jazz for 30 seconds
* It's got all this incredible music happening but underneath is a bass line playing straight 8th notes - but the note played for the verse is an A, not an F# (root chord of the verse)

Forgive my nerdiness!

I’m sorry RodeoSchro, but I think you’re over the top in your assessment of ‘Take Me With U’. It’s essentially a simple song with some slightly quirky but nothing to get quite THAT excited about chords here and there. I can play it too on guitar, it’s a lot of fun

lol, you're so right. And truthfully speaking it's the weakest track on the album if I had to choose myself. IMO 2 reasons P kept it - 1) because he saw the dailys for the film he clearly saw that it fit the motorcycle scene to a T, and 2) he realized that it would be a good sing along/call and response song for live shows. So, this sorta condemns the song to functionality. I mean the tune didn't even feature on the first two configurations of the album and it was recorded before the March configuration. And remember, because TMWU Computer Blue and Let's Go Crazy had to be shortened. And it was recorded before When Doves Cry yet was added only after that fact.

CatB said:

Joy in Repetition, Dorothy Parker, 17 Days

that part where he includes Joni,s Help me, then the Phone ring "bring" and then the way his voice swoops and soars..

I was playing this in my car yesterday trying to sing along to it..

really difficult.

Kiss, rhytmically.

It's a dance song you can't dance too. Try it.

-

Alphabet St. It's a song without a lyrical chorus, except for that multi layered beatle-esque cool "Yeah Yeah Yeah" on repeat and never boring.

-

Batdance. So damn out of place rhytmically as well as the melody, and not to forget the complex bizarre structure. The sung word "Batdance", which doesn't seem to go anywhere melodically, but works amazingly well here. and that strange hunting sloppy synth loop, straight drumloop with gun shot... and slapping disturbed fluffy base line ! SO good.

-

Tambourine. Few melody basically.. but still catchy as hell, and too short to dance too, but never boring on repeat.

His vocals here are of an unearthy arrangement: "Trolley carrs.....(speed car sounds)"

"...not allowed to scream" and he does scream !

And how the word Tambourine replaces as well some pussy as his own dick !

Go figure.

-

Darling Nikki. Melodically and rhytmically you can't help but feel as in a castle, voyeurish and guilty + some off the hook über-cool guitar embellishments and tight mideaval drums. Unbelievable catchy weird song !

-

Irresistable Bitch. Sparce, funky, danceable, perfect multi layered rappin', with an original simple sound build up by Prince's original style of sticky drumming. A keen build up suspence untill a wonderful 'song' climax with structure. Try to make that yourself...

-

I Wanna B Your Lover. Wonderful imaginative simple catchy synth line that never gets bored. And the way his lines are sung over this heavenly very simple melody. The cool breaks. The repeat in the chorus of all that, and still feeling new melodically wise, although it's the same.

-

Sign O The Times. Everything super original - like never heard before, still ! Period. Less is so funcking more it hurts trying to understand its simplicity.

-

Play In The Sunshine. Zappa-esque great accoustic guitar driven fun, and again fun fun fun. This can only make you feel good, although it's a very complex song sounding bloody simple, with sooooo many party people playing...

-

Housequake. Never. Ever. Heard. Something. Like. This. that synth hook... silly but greatest lyrics. As if the lyrics are being used as instruments to arrange the song...

-

Ballad Of Dorothy Parker. A story in funk. Jazz in sound. Sexy in vocals. Respect for women while singing about sex and lust. Complex drum programming. Wonderfull short history lesson in music.

As if you see her, and know her. Theatre funk !

-

A.U.T.O.Matic. has the same unearthy new wave-ish warm beauty as All The Critics Love U In NY, and Lady Cab Driver. Simple. Sparse. Hunting. Stories. Lust. Rape. Love. Chill. Cool. Smart. Pumping.

He's able to take you on a ride, and you believe everything. And it's incredible how he did all this alone. Un-be-lie-va-ble, even after 36 years !

-

The first three songs of Parade ! Need to say more ? Recorded and build up in one take. First song, too weird to believe it's 'played' or 'written' by someone. Second track; you hit the steel drums twice the same sound, fill a whole song with it, underline it with a singing base. And no one can ever invent the word 'Hon-naaaay' the way Prince sings it.

I wonder U. Eerie, sound and atmosphere changing but fitting super well. the pace is warm, the message is of another planet. Wonderfully sung by Lisa and Wendy i believe, and carressed by the best strings ever (by Clare Fisher) ! Let alone the creative melody of Under The Cherry moon to go on... a walse so innovative... the melody line, never ends, and is so playful... oh god.

-

and so on.....

I'll add Dear Michaelangelo (Romance 1600)

Vannormal said:

Kiss, rhytmically.

It's a dance song you can't dance too. Try it.

-

Alphabet St. It's a song without a lyrical chorus, except for that multi layered beatle-esque cool "Yeah Yeah Yeah" on repeat and never boring.

-

Batdance. So damn out of place rhytmically as well as the melody, and not to forget the complex bizarre structure. The sung word "Batdance", which doesn't seem to go anywhere melodically, but works amazingly well here. and that strange hunting sloppy synth loop, straight drumloop with gun shot... and slapping disturbed fluffy base line ! SO good.

-

Tambourine. Few melody basically.. but still catchy as hell, and too short to dance too, but never boring on repeat.

His vocals here are of an unearthy arrangement: "Trolley carrs.....(speed car sounds)"

"...not allowed to scream" and he does scream !

And how the word Tambourine replaces as well some pussy as his own dick !

Go figure.

-

Darling Nikki. Melodically and rhytmically you can't help but feel as in a castle, voyeurish and guilty + some off the hook über-cool guitar embellishments and tight mideaval drums. Unbelievable catchy weird song !

-

Irresistable Bitch. Sparce, funky, danceable, perfect multi layered rappin', with an original simple sound build up by Prince's original style of sticky drumming. A keen build up suspence untill a wonderful 'song' climax with structure. Try to make that yourself...

-

I Wanna B Your Lover. Wonderful imaginative simple catchy synth line that never gets bored. And the way his lines are sung over this heavenly very simple melody. The cool breaks. The repeat in the chorus of all that, and still feeling new melodically wise, although it's the same.

-

Sign O The Times. Everything super original - like never heard before, still ! Period. Less is so funcking more it hurts trying to understand its simplicity.

-

Play In The Sunshine. Zappa-esque great accoustic guitar driven fun, and again fun fun fun. This can only make you feel good, although it's a very complex song sounding bloody simple, with sooooo many party people playing...

-

Housequake. Never. Ever. Heard. Something. Like. This. that synth hook... silly but greatest lyrics. As if the lyrics are being used as instruments to arrange the song...

-

Ballad Of Dorothy Parker. A story in funk. Jazz in sound. Sexy in vocals. Respect for women while singing about sex and lust. Complex drum programming. Wonderfull short history lesson in music.

As if you see her, and know her. Theatre funk !

-

A.U.T.O.Matic. has the same unearthy new wave-ish warm beauty as All The Critics Love U In NY, and Lady Cab Driver. Simple. Sparse. Hunting. Stories. Lust. Rape. Love. Chill. Cool. Smart. Pumping.

He's able to take you on a ride, and you believe everything. And it's incredible how he did all this alone. Un-be-lie-va-ble, even after 36 years !

-

The first three songs of Parade ! Need to say more ? Recorded and build up in one take. First song, too weird to believe it's 'played' or 'written' by someone. Second track; you hit the steel drums twice the same sound, fill a whole song with it, underline it with a singing base. And no one can ever invent the word 'Hon-naaaay' the way Prince sings it.

I wonder U. Eerie, sound and atmosphere changing but fitting super well. the pace is warm, the message is of another planet. Wonderfully sung by Lisa and Wendy i believe, and carressed by the best strings ever (by Clare Fisher) ! Let alone the creative melody of Under The Cherry moon to go on... a walse so innovative... the melody line, never ends, and is so playful... oh god.

-

and so on.....

Kee on going, I love your descriptions. Agree on many of them, especially about Darling Nikki sounding like a castle.

I always thought "What's My Name" was insanely complex and layered. Would songwriters agree?

Erotic City, Irresistible Bitch, Crystal Ball, Ballad of Dorothy, etc.