Hey Duane I thought of another one!

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I remember we once talked about it many years ago, but I'm still wondering how autonomous The Time, Vanity 6, Sheila, The Family and Madhouse were when it comes to live performances. I recently listened to the Family rehearsal for the first time (yeah, I know, why only now? ) and apparently Prince can be heard giving the band instructions. I've also read other reports that after rehearsing with the Revolution he would attend the Time, V6 and Sheila's rehearsals and give advice and/or instructions. I would assume he was also pretty involved with Madhouse's live performances.

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You once told me that those performances could be considered autonomous in the sense that the bands were pretty much left alone to perform the songs any way they wanted, but all of the above gives me the impression that Prince was definitely the musical director for those projects (at least The Time, V6, Madhouse and The Family's only gig: it's possible Sheila got more freedom as she was more of an artist in her own right as opposed to a Prince employee). So I wondered if further research changed your perspective on this, or if you still consider that those live gigs were autonomous. As you can guess, the heart of the matter is connected to my discography website, in the sense that I keep wondering whether those live performances (including TV appearances) should be considered as part of Prince's canon, which would make sense if he was responsible for most of the arrangements and making the calls on how the songs were to be played, or if they can be considered sufficiently autonomous to be considered "covers", like for example post 1995 Morris Day & The Time, who performed Prince compositions but without any Prince involvement.

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Thanks for sharing your perspective

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[Edited 11/23/17 22:28pm]

rwielink said:

Hi everyone. I am looking forward to answering questions, but it would be best to wait until some of you have read the book so I can answer questions about it and hear your thoughts. The first wave of arrivals from the publisher have started delivering today (YES!) and hopefully Amazon will be delivering the physical book very quickly as well. The ebooks have been delivered, and I'm looking forward to everyone getting their orders filled and getting to talk to you about it.

Thank you for the questions. Some of them are going to be fun to answer and thank you again for your interest in this book and the potential book series!

Duane

2045RadicalMattZ said:

rwielink said:

Hello Duane,

every time, for the past 30+ years, whenever I hear the song Sex Shooter, it makes me wonder if this was originally meant as a song from a man's perspective. You know, shooting the love, kiss my gun, and even the lyrics sound like "come on play with my erection".

So since you are the number one 83/84 expert and this song is from almost exactly the middle of this period: my question is: is there a Prince version out there? Or was that ever the plan?

Thnx.

Interesting. Makes sense. the one thing i didn't like about the PR film was the wack off jizz guitar on the audience. I thought it was tasteless and crude...AND out of place in a situational drama....why would THE KID have a whack off guitar set up slightly offstage at the club? Was it part of the club's "audience jizz nights"?

I find it so funny. It's like the music is too good, he just has to come.
It's a very last short glimpse at the bare honesty of Dirty Mind and its underground formative years.
He also knows this is ReaganLand. He's obviously going for shock.

If he insisted more on it, I would agree.
But it's really just a few seconds in the movie,
it's preceded by an unequivocable mischievous funny grin,
and it comes at the end (orgasm!). What an hilarious way to close a show.

OK, maybe it's too much of "When Man Is Happy, Man Comes",
but it's a funny way to sexualize the male figure,
especially in 1984, and bring it back to its... errr... rightful position.

[Edited 11/27/17 15:56pm]

SchlomoThaHomo said:

Morris Hayes mentioned in a recent interview that Prince pulled him aside to play 5 unreleased tracks from the Purple Rain era, and that they were better than than what was on Purple Rain. Were you able to find any information on what those tracks might be?

Awesome question Schlomo! I'm intrigued as to what these songs are. I mean, shit! I like all of the tracks on Purple Rain. Heaven, 7 out of the 9 tracks are top tier shit, lyrically and musically! There are 5 songs BETTER THAN THOSE?!

I'd love to hear them!!!

bonatoc said:

Let's leave it with "affection" please.
And girls can shoot too, you know.

[Edited 11/22/17 17:49pm]

is that Vanity on the left and Appolonia on the right?

rwielink said:

bonatoc said:

Let's leave it with "affection" please.
And girls can shoot too, you know.

[Edited 11/22/17 17:49pm]

is that Vanity on the left and Appolonia on the right?

"Quick, Vanity! Attack this storm of bland FM muzak stations! I'll handle Hollywood! Full thrusters!"

madhouseman said:

purplemist7777 said:

madhouseman said:

Hi everyone. I am looking forward to answering questions, but it would be best to wait until some of you have read the book so I can answer questions about it and hear your thoughts. The first wave of arrivals from the publisher have started delivering today (YES!) and hopefully Amazon will be delivering the physical book very quickly as well. The ebooks have been delivered, and I'm looking forward to everyone getting their orders filled and getting to talk to you about it.

Thank you for the questions. Some of them are going to be fun to answer and thank you again for your interest in this book and the potential book series!

Duane

Hi any update from Amazon on US deliveries? I ordered mine on 11/17/17 and Amazon is still showing “we’ll email you when we have a delivery date.” Thx

I wish I knew more about this. I keep getting told it is in the next day or two, but that has been going on for over two weeks so I am obviously not happy with how Amazon has been doing with this. They've had the books supposedly for a week and a half but I've been told that because of the holiday rush (Black Friday, etc.) smaller orders have gotten pushed aside, which is really unfortunate.

I hope they go out soon. The people who've gotten theirs seem very happy with them and I'm looking forward to answering these questions. Thanks!

For those that missed it Peach And Black Podcast had a long chat with Duane about his book - listen here - http://peachandblack.podb...interview/

madhouseman said:

Two questions:

What is you favorite Prince memory?

Back in the days when Prince did a very atheletic show, dancing and jumping off of things, what type of warm up did or exerise routine did he do?

Duane --

1. Have you parsed through Purple Rain Deluxe? I love disc 2 especially, but I know it's by no means a definitive take on the music that resulted from the period. For instance, a few of the tracks come from something closer to the Around the World in a Day sessions. And obviously there's some good stuff missing, and all the side-project material, for the most part.

2. What are some of the glaring omissions from Purple Rain Deluxe, in your opinion?

3.. If WB or someone else were to attempt a reasonably-curated Purple Rain Deluxe Complete, including studio work, demos, interesting rehearsals, side-project work, notable live stuff, and miscellanea, how many hours of music do you estimate could potentially be included? A fear of mine is that there is just TOO MUCH music for anything resembling "the complete Prince recordings" to ever even be attempted by an archival enterprise.

And a related question:

4. A lot of legacy artists have dedicated archival teams. For instance, Bob Dylan and Miles Davis have teams that are still going through things, but basically everything in the archives is catalogued well, and in most cases already mixed and mastered, waiting for the right opportunity for commercial release. How close is the Prince catalog from the 1980s to being properly catalogued and/or backed-up? I've heard that things are still in disarray, but I've also heard that things are well-catalogued and backed-up. I'd hate for any music to get lost! What exposure do you have to this situation currently?

Thanks for your time and research!

IRockThere4IAm said:

How often did any of these tracks start as simple organic riffs or melodies? Like on an acoustic guitar or piano or something without any layers of technology such as synths and linn drums. Were any of them born from a sort of "campfire" style or was everything built with the overdubs he liked?

Where did he tend to start? With the beat, the melody, the riff, the lyrics or did it vary from song to song?

love2thenines2003 said:

I heard from a close source that tapes and archives have begun to be catalogued and preserved in 1987 with the beginning of Paisley Park as official place for Prince's Studio....before this date a lot of masters and 1St generation tapes pre 1987 have been lost...erased or destroyed....a part of these archives are copies and mix down in WB's Vault! Maybe Duane will be able to confirm unfortunately what I heard? [Edited 12/15/17 14:35pm]

Did Prince always (or usually) leave Sunset Sound with the master tape under his arms?
Or were they temporarily stocked there?

Susan Rogers told that when she started the Vault, she spent a great deal of time calling studios to get back the masters and/or the multi-track tapes back to PP.

It's to me the most obvious origin for leaks and subsequential bootlegs. An assistant comes across stuff when cataloguing, et voilà, a K7 copy is discreetly made...

How did Prince develope his amazing work habits?

Did Prince really need an Engineer?

Why the %$# did he spend so much time ob BABY, I'M A STAR??

During the time Purple Rain was being made, Michael Jackson and Thriller was the biggest pop culture phenomena on the planet. In light of this, what influence did Thriller and Michael Jackson have on Purple Rain and Prince.

Also , Journey has claimed, since Prince's passing, that "Purple Rain" was influenced by "Faithfully," yet Alan Leeds seems to suggest that it was influenced by Pete Seger. Who is right..are they both right or neither?

Thanks for taking questions from us!

.

> Have any of the people you approached for the book declined to contribute?

> How long do you think a next volume would roughly take? You mentioned this was 20+ years in the making but the real work started more recently, of course.

> Is there any period you'd be most interested in yourself (maybe except 83/84)?

Any insight on how he deccided so early in his career to do a WHOLE MOVIE!! To basically write the story, star in it, do all the music...wow! Did he ever tell anyone about that, or is it a secret, like the process worked when he wrote lyrics and put them to music? Maybe he watched the Beatles movie, "Help" one night and thought- "Hey, I could do better than that!"

?????

DonRants said:

During the time Purple Rain was being made, Michael Jackson and Thriller was the biggest pop culture phenomena on the planet. In light of this, what influence did Thriller and Michael Jackson have on Purple Rain and Prince.

Also , Journey has claimed, since Prince's passing, that "Purple Rain" was influenced by "Faithfully," yet Alan Leeds seems to suggest that it was influenced by Pete Seger. Who is right..are they both right or neither?

From what we know of it, it was either Big Chick or Matt Fink that suggested him he should write an arena rock anthem in the same vein. But maybe this is answered in Duane's book?

I've finally read the book, well, devoured it would be more accurate. There's so much data to absorb that I'm sure I may have questions later when I reread it at some point, but a question that came to mind is this:

.

Many early or final mixes of songs were put to regular cassettes for Prince to review at home or in his car, or for WB or associates to hear (and those cassettes are where all the bootlegs come from), and the song would be reworked until deemed completed.

.

if I understood the process correcly, those early mixes/edits that were put to tape were not necessarily saved when the multitrack would be reworked on the next day or at a later date. If this is so, that means that the only existing copies of those early mixes/edits are those cassettes. Some may have ended in the vault if Prince didn't lose them, but it seems that while many have been stolen or given away and ended-up being bootlegged or shared among elite traders, some may even have been lost.

.

In any case, that would mean that even if/when the estate decides to release most of what's in the vault and/or the WB archives, they may have to rely on bootlegs for certain versions of tracks and, in the case of those cassettes lost or in the hands of traders or associates who won't leak them, there is a strong possibility that some mixes have been lost forever?

.

That also may mean that, in the case certain multitracks/masters have deteriorated beyond the point of repair, those cassettes are all that's left of certain songs, and that if the cassettes are lost or not leaked, whole songs that we've never heard may be lost forever?

.

I was quite surprised to realize that save maybe one or 2, we have heard all the known songs recorded in 83-84 in some form or another! But it's not true for every era.

.

I'd love to know what you think about this, Duane.

.

Thanks

bonatoc said:

DonRants said:

During the time Purple Rain was being made, Michael Jackson and Thriller was the biggest pop culture phenomena on the planet. In light of this, what influence did Thriller and Michael Jackson have on Purple Rain and Prince.

Also , Journey has claimed, since Prince's passing, that "Purple Rain" was influenced by "Faithfully," yet Alan Leeds seems to suggest that it was influenced by Pete Seger. Who is right..are they both right or neither?

From what we know of it, it was either Big Chick or Matt Fink that suggested him he should write an arena rock anthem in the same vein. But maybe this is answered in Duane's book?

Dr Fink

On a sidenote, in the book you mention an unreleased edit of the extended cut of Sex Shooter being made on September 28, about a month after the single was released on August 31, and you seem puzzled about why this edit was made since the single was out.

.

While doing my research for my Discography site, I came to realize that the Sex Shooter music video features a 4:38 edit of the extended version. In lack of any contradictory information, I assume a music video to have been released at the same time as the single, but it was in fact not unusual that music videos were released several weeks after the single they were related to.

.

I've also found out that the Mexican "Siempre El Domingo" TV program (specific date unknown to me, but according to OldFriends4Sale here on the org, it was broadcast at some point in September 84) features the band lip-synching a 5:53 edit of it (there were later lip-synched TV appearances in Europe that I have to add if they feature yet different edits).

.

It could be that the edit you mention was made for either of those, assuming of course the dates add-up. If only we could be sure about when the music video was made/released and when the Mexican TV show was shot/broadcast, that could solve it.