CherryMoon57 said:

What's poisonous about that?

A belief in a God that created the whole (infinite) universe in all its marvellous scientific complexities is far more flexible than one that doesn't even allow that possibility.

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This remark makes you a non-christian, a heathen, according to the bible. Especially the old testament. (And Jesus does not want to change one tittel or iota of that vengeful, backward and outdated book.

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And a god that created the while infinite universe is a mental exercise that does not give any extra clarity, but it does add a whole host of new questions. Regardless, the idea of a Prime Mover (as you mentioned here) is incompatible with the major religions and is considered blasphemy by them. The believe in an interventionist god, which goes against all observed phenomena, as well as logic.

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The poisonous part is that the three main western religions (but not limited to those) all demand punishment of non-believers and people freeing themselves of faith. Bush senior even mentioned, while he was president of the US that he did not believe that atheists should be regarded as citizens. Dogma and the letter of the religious books goes against the separation of church and state. Religionistas take an illogical hypothesis and then demand that others conform to their faith and think it normal. That is poisonous.

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Not all in life is about physical evidences, otherwise why would you trust sitting on a chair since you don't always have a guarantee that the chair was built safely enough to support you. Our lives are based on blind faith in everything that surrounds us without us even realising. What makes a material world more reliable to you than a spiritual one?

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I have nothing against spirituality and believe in love. That doesn't change that it helps to look at life logically. Sitting down on chairs is eminently logical, based on the experience of not falling to the floor beforehand. If I sit down on a study enough looking chair and fall down, then I'll watch the candid camera footage later.

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It is quite a leap to go from the fact that we have assumptions (both conscious and subconscious) about the world around us and incomplete and inaccurate sensory input to being certain that the unknown is a certain thng that feels a certain way.

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I am fine with not knowing certain things. I am ok with saying I don't know. I don't have to fill in the blanks with some deity. It would only detract from the sense of wonder about all that is around me. Religion makes people spiritually poorer.

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As for your other comment, the Bible never claimed to give all the answers about the mystery of God, rather, it emphasizes that mankind will never comprehend God fully as our minds are too small to take in the infinite world and most of us think too much 'inside the box' to open up to a power of this magnitude (read the Book of Job up until the end if you don't believe me).

This God I am talking about is real and has nothing to do with superstition, trust me.

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Hah... the logic is as follows: Everything is explained, because god. But god is inexplainable. It is too much for you to comprehend. Don't even try.

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All religion is superstition. No god is real. They are man-made constructs. Free your mind and accept uncertainty and doubt. There is so much wonderous stuff to discover.

mediumdry said:

CherryMoon57 said:

What's poisonous about that?

A belief in a God that created the whole (infinite) universe in all its marvellous scientific complexities is far more flexible than one that doesn't even allow that possibility.

.

This remark makes you a non-christian, a heathen, according to the bible. Especially the old testament. (And Jesus does not want to change one tittel or iota of that vengeful, backward and outdated book.

.

And a god that created the while infinite universe is a mental exercise that does not give any extra clarity, but it does add a whole host of new questions. Regardless, the idea of a Prime Mover (as you mentioned here) is incompatible with the major religions and is considered blasphemy by them. The believe in an interventionist god, which goes against all observed phenomena, as well as logic.

.

The poisonous part is that the three main western religions (but not limited to those) all demand punishment of non-believers and people freeing themselves of faith. Bush senior even mentioned, while he was president of the US that he did not believe that atheists should be regarded as citizens. Dogma and the letter of the religious books goes against the separation of church and state. Religionistas take an illogical hypothesis and then demand that others conform to their faith and think it normal. That is poisonous.

.

.

I have nothing against spirituality and believe in love. That doesn't change that it helps to look at life logically. Sitting down on chairs is eminently logical, based on the experience of not falling to the floor beforehand. If I sit down on a study enough looking chair and fall down, then I'll watch the candid camera footage later.

.

It is quite a leap to go from the fact that we have assumptions (both conscious and subconscious) about the world around us and incomplete and inaccurate sensory input to being certain that the unknown is a certain thng that feels a certain way.

.

I am fine with not knowing certain things. I am ok with saying I don't know. I don't have to fill in the blanks with some deity. It would only detract from the sense of wonder about all that is around me. Religion makes people spiritually poorer.

.

As for your other comment, the Bible never claimed to give all the answers about the mystery of God, rather, it emphasizes that mankind will never comprehend God fully as our minds are too small to take in the infinite world and most of us think too much 'inside the box' to open up to a power of this magnitude (read the Book of Job up until the end if you don't believe me).

This God I am talking about is real and has nothing to do with superstition, trust me.

.

Hah... the logic is as follows: Everything is explained, because god. But god is inexplainable. It is too much for you to comprehend. Don't even try.

.

All religion is superstition. No god is real. They are man-made constructs. Free your mind and accept uncertainty and doubt. There is so much wonderous stuff to discover.

Some contradictions and rigidity in your thinking here. How can you so confidently state that 'No god is real' then invite another to accept uncertainty and doubt?

Therefore I kind of agree with the last part (in purple), in that it is equally necessary to open one's mind/heart/soul in order to discover the wondrous spiritual stuff. As for my own mind, do not worry, it is very open and never ceases to learn from God whilst maintaining a deep interest in the study of his creation by the means of science.

I do think science and spirituality can be combined for through all that exists can we see a proof of God's creative power and that doesn't necessarily make one a non-christian.

Of course it all depends on whether you understand how, despite its astonishing advances, science still remains subject to human limitations (and errors), and therefore accept that it will never provide all the answers either.

CherryMoon57, I think, apart from wether or not there is a god as defined by human religions, we are in violent agreement.

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Apologies for derailing this thread.

mediumdry said:

CherryMoon57, I think, apart from wether or not there is a god as defined by human religions, we are in violent agreement.

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Apologies for derailing this thread.

Yes, that's quite possible lol

HE'S HANGIN' WITH ELVIS IN MIAMI

coldcoffeeandcocacola said:

HE'S HANGIN' WITH ELVIS IN MIAMI

Or in Hawaii...

Prince is in Heaven

SanDiegoFunkDaddy said: