Both "Purple Rain" and The "Gold Experience" feel the same.

For Example:

"Endorphinmachine" - "Lets Go Crazy"

"The Most Beautiful Girl In The World." - "The Beautiful Ones."

"Billy Jack Bitch." - "Darling Nikki."

"Eye Hate U" - "I Would Die 4 U."

"Gold." - "Purple Rain."

LaurenceNoonan said:

Both "Purple Rain" and The "Gold Experience" feel the same.

For Example:

"Endorphinmachine" - "Lets Go Crazy"

"The Most Beautiful Girl In The World." - "The Beautiful Ones."

"Billy Jack Bitch." - "Darling Nikki."

"Eye Hate U" - "I Would Die 4 U."

"Gold." - "Purple Rain."

Ha !

you might have found a secret formula

Nonsense.

Uhm, he did apparently try to bring back some of the "semi-live" vibe from Purple Rain for the Gold Experience , and "Gold" was probably supposed to be the new epic track he'd replace "Purple Rain" with when he was still determined to focus on the new music live. That's where it treally ends though - I fail to see too many similarities between the tracks on those two records.

I guess "I Hate U" could be said to have a similar structure to "The Beautiful Ones", now that I think about it. I wouldn't compare "The Beautiful Ones" to TMBGITW myself, in any case.

ATWIAD is the album he seems to have "modeled" after Purple Rain. ATWIAD is like a psychedelic version of the more commercial sounding predecessor.

novabrkr said:

Uhm, he did apparently try to bring back some of the "semi-live" vibe from Purple Rain for the Gold Experience , and "Gold" was probably supposed to be the new epic track he'd replace "Purple Rain" with when he was still determined to focus on the new music live. That's where it treally ends though - I fail to see too many similarities between the tracks on those two records.

I guess "I Hate U" could be said to have a similar structure to "The Beautiful Ones", now that I think about it. I wouldn't compare "The Beautiful Ones" to TMBGITW myself, in any case.

ATWIAD is the album he seems to have "modeled" after Purple Rain. ATWIAD is like a psychedelic version of the more commercial sounding predecessor.

Good point.

Tamborine and Temptation pushed it back towards the B-Side ethic he felt he was ready to put on albums.
"God" vocal, it takes balls to put that out at this moment in his career.
He never forgot about his fans, and at his apogee knew how to be a public figure,
and where he could still express what music lovers, himself included, really cared about.

The B-Sides were for many of us, the backdoor to Wonderland.
The side you're not supposed to care about (90% of the time an instrumental, or another song from the same album).

Temptation: tempo changes, radicality, preserving the "All The Critics Love U" underground spirit.

No pop artist went back so quickly to the drawing board and the mirror, after having experienced such a success.
No pop artist decided to go back to his hometown and pour money into it, except maybe for Elvis.
And now we know he even was fed up with the whole PR concept way before the tour ended.

But no wonder, with the first tapes of Clare Fischer's orchestra for The Family project,
Prince starts to have visions of Christopher Tracy Against The Corporate World,
fiends that wants to steal his muse away from him.
Mary Sharon is a metaphor. Shall Prince keep on living like a pimp for a wrecka company until he's past?
Or shall he swear allegiance to his muse, and fuck them dollars?
"For a 100 millions, I'd really consider it." (Christopher Tracy Prince, 1991)

I find this fascinating.

Like "4 The Tears In Your Eyes",
who was born like a legendary miraculous child, on the road,
amidst workers stale soda and cheese sandwich leftovers.

No, TGE and PR are very different beasts.
You could say both their tracklists have the classic rhythm of a blockbuster album,
but it's an industry well known trick. Albums are usually sequenced with peaks and valleys,
which is not necessarily a trick, but just for the musicality of an hour of listening.

By the third song, a pause is usually welcomed by the listener.
You'll see many pop albums slowing the pace with the 3rd song.
"Thriller" uses this process on both sides of the album.


Eye Hate U / I Would Die 4 U?
Naaah.

Love.Hate relationship on one side, Jesus on the other.
Jesus has probably better things to do than couple catfights.

[Edited 11/24/17 8:16am]

I remember the hype surrounding "TGE" by the critics; "This is his best album since 'Purple Rain"...."Never since 'Purple Rain has he been so diverse"...."The songs are so reminiscent of 'Purple Rain"........Whatever...I say tomato, you say tomahto.

There's some nominal similarities, I guess, but nothing to indicate a conscious recreation; I guess there is an argument that The Gold Experience is kind of meant to be the sort of statement for 'The Artist' as Purple Rain was for 'Prince,' if that makes any sense.

"Gold" is also most likely meant to mirror "Purple Rain," since Prince's concerts would've otherwise lacked the climactic feel that "PR" brought.

I actually think Love Symbol is closer to Purple Rain than The Gold Experience is, at least in some ways.

I thought this at the time, but more as case of following a commercial structure.

Without doubt I always thought Gold was a 90s Purple Rain - same sort of musical structure.

LaurenceNoonan said:

Both "Purple Rain" and The "Gold Experience" feel the same.

For Example:

"Endorphinmachine" - "Lets Go Crazy"

"The Most Beautiful Girl In The World." - "The Beautiful Ones."

"Billy Jack Bitch." - "Darling Nikki."

"Eye Hate U" - "I Would Die 4 U."

"Gold." - "Purple Rain."

I've repeatedly made these comparisons. I've often stated, and stand by it, that The Gold Experience is the 90's version of Purple Rain. All the elements are there.

I'd disagree with "Eye Hate U" and "I Would Die 4 U". Besides the "U", they're nothing alike.

As much as Prince didn't want to relive Purple Rain on record, he sure to fuck made it with TGE, which I consider his best 90s album under any name.

Endorphinmachine - Let's Go Crazy

We March - Take Me With U (the upbeat duet)

Shhh - The Beautiful Ones (the ballad)

Dolphin or Billy Jack Bitch - Computer Blue (the conflict)

319 - Darling Nikki (the sex song) (or I Hate U - the "WTF is wrong w/ you?" song)

Shy - When Doves Cry (the mid-tempo story song)

TMBGITW - I Would Die 4 U (the mid-tempo love ode)

Now - Baby I'm A Star (the braggadocious banger)

Gold - Purple Rain (the power ballad/anthem)

A few variants but in general, it's all there, sometimes twice over.

^ Nonsense. You're projecting or, in other words, you first draw a conclusion then look for elements of proof that, of course, you find. Any such totally vague, extremely approximative and debatable, comparisons could pretty much be made between either album and any other Prince album.

databank said:

^ Nonsense. You're projecting or, in other words, you first draw a conclusion then look for elements of proof that, of course, you find. Any such totally vague, extremely approximative and debatable, comparisons could pretty much be made between either album and any other Prince album.

It's nonsense to you. To others, it makes sense.

So there's that.

batman album was more structured like PR

novabrkr said:

ATWIAD is the album he seems to have "modeled" after Purple Rain. ATWIAD is like a psychedelic version of the more commercial sounding predecessor.

Totally agree with this as well. Someone pointed it out in the last couple of years and it really is a mirror of its predecessor. It seems obvious knowing he wrote so much of that during the PR time anyway, whether on tour, during the filming of the movie, or whatever.

Let's not pretend that Prince was 100% anti-doing-PR-again-or-was-tired-of-PR by the time ATWIAD came out. Somewhere in his noggin', that blueprint was there. He used it often.

Don't take this seriously...

TrivialPursuit said:

databank said:

^ Nonsense. You're projecting or, in other words, you first draw a conclusion then look for elements of proof that, of course, you find. Any such totally vague, extremely approximative and debatable, comparisons could pretty much be made between either album and any other Prince album.

It's nonsense to you. To others, it makes sense.

So there's that.

Yes, only the mere fact that something makes sense to some people (or even many people) isn't sufficient at all to make it a valid theory. A lot of nonsense makes sense to a lot of people.

.

As I said, the song by song comparison you and Laurence make could pretty much be made between virtually any Prince album and PR or TGE. Hell, you could even make such comparison between those albums and many albums by other artists, and claim those records were those artists' answer to PR or TGE.

.

If you want to make a point, you have to make it acceptable with solid arguments or elements of proof. So far you haven't. It doesn't mean you can't, but then we're still waiting

LaurenceNoonan said:

Don't take this seriously...

Hey! You started it!

SoulAlive said:

at the very least,I think Prince intended for the song “Gold” to become the “Purple Rain” of the 90s....a big,powerful rock anthem that could become a new encore classic during his shows.I certainly remember the song being heavily hyped throughout 1994.

I believe I remember it all started with a review, in some music magazine, in which the writer made that claim that Gold was the PR of the 90s. Soon enough, every parrot in the music press was repeating it. I don't believe Prince ever made any such statement (but I could have missed it, of course). However, I'll admit the parallel between both songs, with the notion that Gold would be to the sort of anthem PR had been to Prince, was a tempting parallel to make (even if thematically, both songs have pretty different messages).

On the other hand, I fail to see how and why the parallel could be extended to the whole TGE album being an answer to the whole PR album. Thematically, both records are extremely different.

He stopped playing Purple Rain for a while and closed the sets with Gold, so there's that (yeah, I know he didn't always close the shows with Purple Rain).

databank said:

It was clear from the first listen 20+ yrs ago that the song "Gold" was "Purple Rain" reimagined. That's fine. At the time TGE was the most important record of his career since he wanted to prove a point to WB. It makes sense Prince would try to recreate elements of Purple Rain, his most sucessful album.

TrivialPursuit said:

novabrkr said:

ATWIAD is the album he seems to have "modeled" after Purple Rain. ATWIAD is like a psychedelic version of the more commercial sounding predecessor.

Totally agree with this as well. Someone pointed it out in the last couple of years and it really is a mirror of its predecessor. It seems obvious knowing he wrote so much of that during the PR time anyway, whether on tour, during the filming of the movie, or whatever.

Let's not pretend that Prince was 100% anti-doing-PR-again-or-was-tired-of-PR by the time ATWIAD came out. Somewhere in his noggin', that blueprint was there. He used it often.

jimmy jam said that too, i never really noticed it until i read that but the ladder was purple rain the others are a little harder to trace i think.

PeteSilas said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Totally agree with this as well. Someone pointed it out in the last couple of years and it really is a mirror of its predecessor. It seems obvious knowing he wrote so much of that during the PR time anyway, whether on tour, during the filming of the movie, or whatever.

Let's not pretend that Prince was 100% anti-doing-PR-again-or-was-tired-of-PR by the time ATWIAD came out. Somewhere in his noggin', that blueprint was there. He used it often.

jimmy jam said that too, i never really noticed it until i read that but the ladder was purple rain the others are a little harder to trace i think.

Someone laid it out on here, but if I recall...

LGC - ATWIAD both started with a one-note type intro and slowly came into the song, ending with everyone singing together.

TBO - COTH both 3rd song ballads.

BIAS - America used the same drum pattern (both one-take by the band, more or less)

Purple Rain - the Ladder (anthemic, gospel, both live cuts, of sorts)

Darling Nikki - Temptation

Take Me With U - Raspberry Beret (both simple pop songs, both have strings, and both reference storylines with Apollonia - RB being the parts of PR that didn't make it into the movie but were in the trailer)

Tamborine - When Doves Cry - percussion based songs

5 songs on side 1, 4 songs on side 2. If you search, the layout is on the Org, even in the last year or so I believe.

i guess so but it runs contrary to what he was trying to do (and did) which was to alienate all the new pop fans.

TrivialPursuit said:

PeteSilas said:

jimmy jam said that too, i never really noticed it until i read that but the ladder was purple rain the others are a little harder to trace i think.

Someone laid it out on here, but if I recall...

LGC - ATWIAD both started with a one-note type intro and slowly came into the song, ending with everyone singing together.

TBO - COTH both 3rd song ballads.

BIAS - America used the same drum pattern (both one-take by the band, more or less)

Purple Rain - the Ladder (anthemic, gospel, both live cuts, of sorts)

Darling Nikki - Temptation

Take Me With U - Raspberry Beret (both simple pop songs, both have strings, and both reference storylines with Apollonia - RB being the parts of PR that didn't make it into the movie but were in the trailer)

Tamborine - When Doves Cry - percussion based songs

5 songs on side 1, 4 songs on side 2. If you search, the layout is on the Org, even in the last year or so I believe.

PeteSilas said:

i guess so but it runs contrary to what he was trying to do (and did) which was to alienate all the new pop fans.

I'm not sure it's neither fair nor accurate to say Prince was purposely trying to alienate his newer fanbase.

TrivialPursuit said:

PeteSilas said:

i guess so but it runs contrary to what he was trying to do (and did) which was to alienate all the new pop fans.

I'm not sure it's neither fair nor accurate to say Prince was purposely trying to alienate his newer fanbase.

that's the general consensus, that he was trying to challenge/alienate the pop fans. his subsequent and previous actions point to a guy who didn't much like that kind of stardom. His ending the purple rain tour when there was still a lot of money to be made in europe as well as the further artistic meanderings away from the pop audience. some people were frustrated by it but it's what prince wanted. He did an awful lot of sabotaging his projects, his reasons weren't always clear. One thing i do wonder was at what point did he begin to miss the power that the purple rain era gave him and did he regret not milking it more at the time.

So, what is the fruit of your searches?
Are Apples and Oranges finally equal?

Ow, Pete, honestly: "milking it"? Prince?
That's the thing that unnerves, he knew to cash in when required (TMBGITW),
while going underground. And got in return one of the, if not the strongest hardcore fanbase of them all.
No other artist has maniacs up to his neck (in terms of hard work) and more. Per Nilsen, Uptown, and countless others, orgers included.
The guy's life is some kinda Bible. Princevault only is an awfully big Wiki.

An artist sabotaging himself.... Prince? Really?
That's your projection. I'm more for "integrity".
I have Davis, Clapton, Clinton and d'Arby to back me up.
Even Randy Newman and Little Richard.
Oh, and incidentally almost all the world's musicians.

We know by now that projects came to him in quarters and by the time
reality was following (6 or 9 months later), he probably considered the sektch good enough,
or he had to say what he had to say when he felt like it. It was time to move on, "here's a better idea".

With this ballesy, surely unfair for those involved, stubborn way of working, anyone would have lead PP to very fast bankruptcy.
I mean the guy is over-producing sketches, finishes paintings, sleeps five hours before doing it all over again. Eats an olive.

Through all these years, to remain artistically generous, while earning somehow enough dineros to buy Paisley Park back entirely,
is beyond my comprehension. SKipper is a figure on so many levels. He was not in front of their eyes anymore but its back catalogue sure was selling.
Towards the end giving concerts for a mil and then give back half to good deeds.

A starry night, I'm a millionaire...



"MILKING!" Shhh...

[Edited 11/27/17 12:14pm]

No doubt he did things to either challenge or alienate his fans, especially the black fans, releasing If I Was Your Girlfriend off of SOTT to black stations in 87 was insane if he wanted rotation. I think he did it on purpose. I wouldn't say he should or shouldn't have done things but he did a lot of things that hurt his projects, SOTT tour in Europe but not in the us, putting out new albums when there was still life left in old ones. Like any major star, mj, elvis, or springsteen, they tend to live in a bubble and live in a perpetual state of their own highest triumph, being oblivious to the grassroots and to how well they are doing in the present. Prince was living off the steam from purple rain for a long time, he did a lot of things off the clout it gave him that did not pay off, by the time warners realized that they'd indulged and created a monster who would bleed them dry it was too late to get him under wraps without a huge blowup. it happened, Prince made a fool of himself for a few years, he also learned alot, seemed to become more obsessed with money and success than he had been earlier and he made out fine. It was his career in the end, he did what he wanted. It's like saying Ali should have not done this or that but he did what he wanted and he never complained about the consequences but for people outside of the situation, we think it could have went a little better.

bonatoc said:

So, what is the fruit of your searches?
Are Apples and Oranges finally equal?

Ow, Pete, honestly: "milking it"? Prince?
That's the thing that unnerves, he knew to cash in when required (TMBGITW),
while going underground. And got in return one of the, if not the strongest hardcore fanbase of them all.
No other artist has maniacs up to his neck (in terms of hard work) and more. Per Nilsen, Uptown, and countless others, orgers included.
The guy's life is some kinda Bible. Princevault only is an awfully big Wiki.

An artist sabotaging himself.... Prince? Really?
That's your projection. I'm more for "integrity".
I have Davis, Clapton, Clinton and d'Arby to back me up.
Even Randy Newman and Little Richard.
Oh, and incidentally almost all the world's musicians.

We know by now that projects came to him in quarters and by the time
reality was following (6 or 9 months later), he probably considered the sektch good enough,
or he had to say what he had to say when he felt like it. It was time to move on, "here's a better idea".

With this ballesy, surely unfair for those involved, stubborn way of working, anyone would have lead PP to very fast bankruptcy.
I mean the guy is over-producing sketches, finishes paintings, sleeps five hours before doing it all over again. Eats an olive.

Through all these years, to remain artistically generous, while earning somehow enough dineros to buy Paisley Park back entirely,
is beyond my comprehension. SKipper is a figure on so many levels. He was not in front of their eyes anymore but its back catalogue sure was selling.
Towards the end giving concerts for a mil and then give back half to good deeds.

A starry night, I'm a millionaire...



"MILKING!" Shhh...

[Edited 11/27/17 12:14pm]