I wish I could find the link but Prince did the entire Musicology tour with AEG without a contract since he refused to sign one. They would have been out millions if he decided not to honor it.

You're underestimating how much shit Prince was able to get away with since he was Prince.

edit: Found it.

http://www.billboard.com/articles/business/7356901/prince-super-bowl-halftime-musicology-tour-guru-john-meglen-interview

[Edited 11/19/17 18:28pm]

Strive said:

laurarichardson said:

Strive said:

I wish I could find the link but Prince did the entire Musicology tour with AEG without a contract since he refused to sign one. They would have been out millions if he decided not to honor it.

You're underestimating how much shit Prince was able to get away with since he was Prince.

edit: Found it.

http://www.billboard.com/articles/business/7356901/prince-super-bowl-halftime-musicology-tour-guru-john-meglen-interview

[Edited 11/19/17 18:28pm]

—This is true but I am not so sure he would get equity without a contract? I also have my doubts that the parent company which is not a US company would go along.

My theory was he signed an equity deal with the idea of letting them stream the Warner albums and expanded the deal verbally after that.

It's just speculation but it makes the most sense. Prince was alive when the deal expanded into new music/the Purple Pick Of The Week and I'm pretty sure he was alive when they started putting up the NPG records. Yet the estate is claiming that they have no rights to the NPG records and there was only a small window of exclusivity with the HITNRUN albums. They aren't trying to make the claim that everything regarding Tidal is false.

If Tidal had the paperwork and went through all the proper channels, it'd be an open and shut case. Instead Prince's sudden death left them with their dicks in their hands. I let my feelings about Jay-Z and Tidal be known so, in my mind, everything from them knowingly overstepping the written deal with the idea they could legalize it later by just buying the rights... to them actually forging documents to try to make the verbal agreement into a paper one that could hold up in court (or at least give them enough time and leverage to force the estate into a deal that would wash away all their past transgressions) is possible.

[Edited 11/20/17 14:35pm]

Strive said:

prince is in heaven laughing at all the commotion over him

Strive said:

I wish I could find the link but Prince did the entire Musicology tour with AEG without a contract since he refused to sign one. They would have been out millions if he decided not to honor it.

You're underestimating how much shit Prince was able to get away with since he was Prince.

edit: Found it.

When we worked with him, there was no manager, no lawyer, no agent, no business manager. It was just him and the two of us. And when we started this [Musicology] thing, Paul and I had a sit-down with [billionaire AEG owner] Phil [Anschutz] one day, we had to tell Phil that Prince won't sign anything, there's no contract. And Phil asks, "if he doesn't show up, how much are we going to be out?" And I think we would probably have been out $2-3 million in production expenses, a couple million in advertising, so if he doesn't show up we're going to lose $5 million. So Phil looks at us and asks, "do you think he's going to do it?" And Paul and I said, "yeah, we think he really wants to do this." And that tour was flawless. We produced and promoted it, there were no other people involved in that tour. We hired everybody.

We booked 21 nights in London, that was before anybody else had done a residency in an arena. Strangely enough, Phil [Anschutz] allowed us to do this with no written contract. Eighty-eight shows on Musicology, then six months of the 3121 Club in Vegas, the Super Bowl Halftime show, 21 nights at the O2 in London, then he played here at Coachella, all with no contract.

http://www.billboard.com/articles/business/7356901/prince-super-bowl-halftime-musicology-tour-guru-john-meglen-interview

[Edited 11/19/17 18:28pm]

Strive, these quotes plays into the Prince myth and I’m willing to bet P himself allowed this myth to be perpetuated. However, in reality I can’t imagine Prince entering into any agreement without complete documentation giving him total control of his likeness and sound, including allowing for legal recourse if that ‘agreement’ was not honored. These quotes make nice stories but there is a lot of wiggle room in a newspaper quote/story. Maybe our legal experts can comment and give their opinion. Just my opinion. Peace ~~DD55

DD55 said:

Strive said:

I wish I could find the link but Prince did the entire Musicology tour with AEG without a contract since he refused to sign one. They would have been out millions if he decided not to honor it.

You're underestimating how much shit Prince was able to get away with since he was Prince.

edit: Found it.

http://www.billboard.com/articles/business/7356901/prince-super-bowl-halftime-musicology-tour-guru-john-meglen-interview

[Edited 11/19/17 18:28pm]

Strive, these quotes plays into the Prince myth and I’m willing to bet P himself allowed this myth to be perpetuated. However, in reality I can’t imagine Prince entering into any agreement without complete documentation giving him total control of his likeness and sound, including allowing for legal recourse if that ‘agreement’ was not honored. These quotes make nice stories but there is a lot of wiggle room in a newspaper quote/story. Maybe our legal experts can comment and give their opinion. Just my opinion. Peace ~~DD55

The agreement would not make Tidal in control of his likeness as Prince did advertising for last shows and he was using his likenes. If anything the agreement would not have allowed Prince to promote another streaming service which would make sense. Remember he had "Hit and Run" on I-Tunes but we did not see any advertisement for it or Prince so much as sending out a press release.

With AGE live if he decided not to show up for the shows he was not going to get paid and he had no rep for not showing up for concerts.

Prince had more to lose then AGE. I still cannot see Tidal giving away 3 million without some agreement. I also have yet to see anyone answer my question.

If Tidal did not have a signed contract to stream those songs how come Comerica has not been able to get an injunction to get the songs off of the platform?

Do you realize as of last week Comerica's lawsuit was filled a year ago?

laurarichardson said:

The agreement would not make Tidal in control of his likeness as Prince did advertising for last shows and he was using his likenes. If anything the agreement would not have allowed Prince to promote another streaming service which would make sense. Remember he had "Hit and Run" on I-Tunes but we did not see any advertisement for it or Prince so much as sending out a press release.

With AGE live if he decided not to show up for the shows he was not going to get paid and he had no rep for not showing up for concerts.

Prince had more to lose then AGE. I still cannot see Tidal giving away 3 million without some agreement. I also have yet to see anyone answer my question.

If Tidal did not have a signed contract to stream those songs how come Comerica has not been able to get an injunction to get the songs off of the platform?

Do you realize as of last week Comerica's lawsuit was filled a year ago?

Why don't you just ask Comerica your question. You are in contact with them, turning everyone over for copyrights and such.

PennyPurple said:

laurarichardson said:

The agreement would not make Tidal in control of his likeness as Prince did advertising for last shows and he was using his likenes. If anything the agreement would not have allowed Prince to promote another streaming service which would make sense. Remember he had "Hit and Run" on I-Tunes but we did not see any advertisement for it or Prince so much as sending out a press release.

With AGE live if he decided not to show up for the shows he was not going to get paid and he had no rep for not showing up for concerts.

Prince had more to lose then AGE. I still cannot see Tidal giving away 3 million without some agreement. I also have yet to see anyone answer my question.

If Tidal did not have a signed contract to stream those songs how come Comerica has not been able to get an injunction to get the songs off of the platform?

Do you realize as of last week Comerica's lawsuit was filled a year ago?

Why don't you just ask Comerica your question. You are in contact with them, turning everyone over for copyrights and such.

No one involved in a legal case is going to give information out to the public. The case has not even made it to court yet. You and LM need to talk. Also I would love to know why you think it is a good idea for some bootlegger to collect money for music they do not own or had nothing to do with creating?

Are you getting a piece of the action because this sure is bothering you.

laurarichardson said:

PennyPurple said:

Why don't you just ask Comerica your question. You are in contact with them, turning everyone over for copyrights and such.

No one involved in a legal case is going to give information out to the public. The case has not even made it to court yet. You and LM need to talk. Also I would love to know why you think it is a good idea for some bootlegger to collect money for music they do not own or had nothing to do with creating?

Are you getting a piece of the action because this sure is bothering you.

I'm not sure how Tidal got all of Prince's albums and songs streaming in such quality (many of which were never available) in HIFI and artwork in such detail without Prince having given Tidal something to go off on.

Albums like Chocolate Invasion, Exodus and Slaughterhouse were never on any music streaming media format other than the NPGMC, and is under legal credit to NPG Records on Tidal. I really think Prince was okay with this, and was pretty clear this is what he wanted and where he wanted his music to come from.

The other hand is...is the Estate making any profit off from the streams and such? That's what i want to know. If so then I don't see whats wrong with it.

paisleypark4 said:

laurarichardson said:

No one involved in a legal case is going to give information out to the public. The case has not even made it to court yet. You and LM need to talk. Also I would love to know why you think it is a good idea for some bootlegger to collect money for music they do not own or had nothing to do with creating?

Are you getting a piece of the action because this sure is bothering you.

I'm not sure how Tidal got all of Prince's albums and songs streaming in such quality (many of which were never available) in HIFI and artwork in such detail without Prince having given Tidal something to go off on.

Albums like Chocolate Invasion, Exodus and Slaughterhouse were never on any music streaming media format other than the NPGMC, and is under legal credit to NPG Records on Tidal. I really think Prince was okay with this, and was pretty clear this is what he wanted and where he wanted his music to come from.

The other hand is...is the Estate making any profit off from the streams and such? That's what i want to know. If so then I don't see whats wrong with it.

I believe the estate is getting royaties maybe not as much as they would like but if no money was coming in they would have got an injuction to get the music off of Tidal. If they are getting money and the deal ends in a few years what is the big deal.

Not to mention that these accusations of fraud could led to Tidal to file a suit against the estate.

laurarichardson said:

PennyPurple said:

Why don't you just ask Comerica your question. You are in contact with them, turning everyone over for copyrights and such.

No one involved in a legal case is going to give information out to the public. The case has not even made it to court yet. You and LM need to talk. Also I would love to know why you think it is a good idea for some bootlegger to collect money for music they do not own or had nothing to do with creating?

Are you getting a piece of the action because this sure is bothering you.

Yeah, I'm getting a piece of the action....WTF?

How much are they paying you to report everything? But yet you sure like the bootleg of Mayte's book.

PennyPurple said:

laurarichardson said:

No one involved in a legal case is going to give information out to the public. The case has not even made it to court yet. You and LM need to talk. Also I would love to know why you think it is a good idea for some bootlegger to collect money for music they do not own or had nothing to do with creating?

Are you getting a piece of the action because this sure is bothering you.

Yeah, I'm getting a piece of the action....WTF?

How much are they paying you to report everything? But yet you sure like the bootleg of Mayte's book.

What a shame you do not understand sarcasm. You are bugged that some butt face cannot steal from the estate. Are you working for SNJ and LM? Oh and me and about 1000 got that pdf for free and I am sure none of us were going to purchase it in the first place.

laurarichardson said:

PennyPurple said:

Yeah, I'm getting a piece of the action....WTF?

How much are they paying you to report everything? But yet you sure like the bootleg of Mayte's book.

What a shame you do not understand sarcasm. You are bugged that some butt face cannot steal from the estate. Are you working for SNJ and LM? Oh and me and about 1000 got that pdf for free and I am sure none of us were going to purchase it in the first place.

Where do you come up with this stuff? LMAO.

BTW....you made sure you read it.

PennyPurple said:

laurarichardson said:

What a shame you do not understand sarcasm. You are bugged that some butt face cannot steal from the estate. Are you working for SNJ and LM? Oh and me and about 1000 got that pdf for free and I am sure none of us were going to purchase it in the first place.

Where do you come up with this stuff? LMAO.

BTW....you made sure you read it.

Please find the parts for your head. You are the one worrying about me contacting the estate concerning copyright infringment thus it appears you are okay with stealing. These are your comments.

laurarichardson said:

206Michelle said:

laurarichardson said:

The agreement would not make Tidal in control of his likeness as Prince did advertising for last shows and he was using his likenes. If anything the agreement would not have allowed Prince to promote another streaming service which would make sense. Remember he had "Hit and Run" on I-Tunes but we did not see any advertisement for it or Prince so much as sending out a press release.

With AGE live if he decided not to show up for the shows he was not going to get paid and he had no rep for not showing up for concerts.

Prince had more to lose then AGE. I still cannot see Tidal giving away 3 million without some agreement. I also have yet to see anyone answer my question.

If Tidal did not have a signed contract to stream those songs how come Comerica has not been able to get an injunction to get the songs off of the platform?

Do you realize as of last week Comerica's lawsuit was filled a year ago?

Comerica could not have filed the lawsuit a year ago because Comerica has only been the Special Administrator since February.

It was Bremer who was representing the estate at the time. It was Nov 16 2016 per the court doc. Comercica continued on with the suit when they took over. Your point is what? Breamer or Comerica has not been able to get these songs off of Tidal and now they are working on a settlement.

Tidal are going to LOSE this case big time. There's no 'spirit of agreement' dynamic to be discussed here. Jay-Z/tidal either provide the written valid contract, or they're out on their ass. So many LR-wasted posts! So sad.

OperatingThetan said:

I'd like to know how those alleging wrongdoing on Tidal's part prior to Prince's passing on April 21, 2016, explain these tweets from Prince, of which just a few of those relevant are posted

https://mobile.twitter.com/prince/status/722176051367976960

WOW

GOod work

was that the last one..April 18 2016 ?

fortuneandserendipity said:

laurarichardson said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

Tidal are going to LOSE this case big time. There's no 'spirit of agreement' dynamic to be discussed here. Jay-Z/tidal either provide the written valid contract, or they're out on their ass. So many LR-wasted posts! So sad.

—If you took the time to read the most recent court docs. You will see that Comerica is requesting more time while they are in settlement talks with Tidal. The estate filed the suit the burden to prove the allegations but now we see after a year the estate is trying to settle. If the estate had a slam dunk case they would not be discussing a settlement.

It is a slam dunk case, because one party is right- Comerica, and Tidal are wrong. There is no written contract or paperwork legitimizing Tidal to upload all of P's albums. If there were, Tidal would have provided it. The reason it appears complicated, judicially speaking, is because Tidal did have a verifiable contract, guaranteeing rights over some P albums.

Furthermore, you do realise a settlement would mean Tidal having to take down the albums they illegitimately uploaded? In effect losing them the case, regardless of money exchange.

Someone said earlier that the burden of proof lies with Comerica as they are the plaintiff in the case. Well not really. The burden of proof lies with Tidal, they're the ones putting up new P music posthumously without the legal paperwork to back it up.

They have to proove they have the right claim. So where is that evidence? Like the missing revelations over P's terminal illness, you are going to be waiting an entire lifetime for such details to emerge. See you in the afterlife then.

Lovejunky said:

OperatingThetan said:

Lovejunky said:

WOW

GOod work

was that the last one..April 18 2016 ?

Yes. The last one is a link to 'Black Sweat' live in Atlanta and was one of Prince's final tweets.

YES FOR THOSE RECEIPTS!

fortuneandserendipity said:

laurarichardson said:

fortuneandserendipity said: —If you took the time to read the most recent court docs. You will see that Comerica is requesting more time while they are in settlement talks with Tidal. The estate filed the suit the burden to prove the allegations but now we see after a year the estate is trying to settle. If the estate had a slam dunk case they would not be discussing a settlement.

It is a slam dunk case, because one party is right- Comerica, and Tidal are wrong. There is no written contract or paperwork legitimizing Tidal to upload all of P's albums. If there were, Tidal would have provided it. The reason it appears complicated, judicially speaking, is because Tidal did have a verifiable contract, guaranteeing rights over some P albums.

Furthermore, you do realise a settlement would mean Tidal having to take down the albums they illegitimately uploaded? In effect losing them the case, regardless of money exchange.

Someone said earlier that the burden of proof lies with Comerica as they are the plaintiff in the case. Well not really. The burden of proof lies with Tidal, they're the ones putting up new P music posthumously without the legal paperwork to back it up.

They have to proove they have the right claim. So where is that evidence? Like the missing revelations over P's terminal illness, you are going to be waiting an entire lifetime for such details to emerge. See you in the afterlife then.

1) If this were a slam dunk case the estate would have been able to get an injunction to take the material off of Tidal at least until the case gets to court. After a year that material is still up on Tidal.

2) Originally when LM was in charge the claim was that an agreement did not exist. Tidal provided an agreement and then the terms were disputed. Then Comerica disputed the agreement in of itself as doctored. Now according to the most recent documents Comerica is requesting more time to work on a settlement. Comerica is requesting this time not Tidal.

3) A settlement does not automatically mean the material would have to come down it will depend on the terms of the settlement which you or I will never be privy to.

4) The burden of proof lies with Comerica they are the plaintiff. Comerica has made allegations and they need to present their case to the court.

5) Tidal need only defend their position in court with whatever evidence they may have.

6) Not sure what your point is about terminal illness. We will never know unless someone spills the beans or we get to see his health records. We will know the results of this court case.

Replica said:

Prince hated contracts, and probably just had a verbal agreement. Prince was known for getting what he wanted, just because he was Prince. And a prince can get whatever he wants. This is a problem when he's not here to tell us what the agreement was/is. In my opinion, Jay Z has to accept that this agreement is worthless now, and let this be a lesson for future agreements. An agreement has to be in black and white... and SIGNED.

eventually they WONT be able to use his music...

This does not surprise me at all. I knew JayZ/Tidal was shady from the get-go.

cloveringold85 said:

This does not surprise me at all. I knew JayZ/Tidal was shady from the get-go.

What does not surprise you allegations by the estate that change on a monthly basis. Allegations have to be proven and it is Comerica that is asking for more time to work on a settlement.

laurarichardson said:

cloveringold85 said:

This does not surprise me at all. I knew JayZ/Tidal was shady from the get-go.

What does not surprise you allegations by the estate that change on a monthly basis. Allegations have to be proven and it is Comerica that is asking for more time to work on a settlement.

I dunno, you tell me? Backdating documents? Does that sound legit to you? Prince's estate obviously feels the suspicious contract needs investigation. I can't blame them.

http://uproxx.com/realtal...l-lawsuit/