Neversin said:

TrevorAyer said:

How did tidal get lossless versions of albums previously only in mp3 if not from prince?

When "The Chocolate Invasion", "The Slaughterhouse" and "Xpectation" were posted (back when Prince was still alive) I did a comparison of the Tidal streams with the promo/testpressing CDr's...
I can't remember which albums (either "The Chocolate Invasion" or "The Slaughterhouse") were lossless, but I figured they came from the 7 disc promo/testpressing set... But they didn't... The timings were off for straight rips so my guess is that Prince provided these albums for streaming on Tidal from a different source than said CDr's...

Neversin.

[Edited 11/12/17 8:11am]

wait, what? so promo/testpressing copies were made of that 7 disc boxset and they
are 'out there?' or at least in so far as someone noted down the exact timings? this
is the first i've heard about that. that would be interesting to know more about. not
who where or what, i don't care, that's people privacy. it would just be cool if we'd
eventually be able to see photos and such of the testset.

IstenSzek said:

Neversin said:

When "The Chocolate Invasion", "The Slaughterhouse" and "Xpectation" were posted (back when Prince was still alive) I did a comparison of the Tidal streams with the promo/testpressing CDr's...
I can't remember which albums (either "The Chocolate Invasion" or "The Slaughterhouse") were lossless, but I figured they came from the 7 disc promo/testpressing set... But they didn't... The timings were off for straight rips so my guess is that Prince provided these albums for streaming on Tidal from a different source than said CDr's...

Neversin.

[Edited 11/12/17 8:11am]

wait, what? so promo/testpressing copies were made of that 7 disc boxset and they
are 'out there?' or at least in so far as someone noted down the exact timings? this
is the first i've heard about that. that would be interesting to know more about. not
who where or what, i don't care, that's people privacy. it would just be cool if we'd
eventually be able to see photos and such of the testset.

No it's not true.

The only unofficial promos out there of THE CHOCOLATE INVASION, THE SLAUGHTERHOUSE & XPECTATION are from a company called SILVERLINE RECORDS and they come in digipack and are sold on eBAY... Those are not official at all.

It has already been confirmed that no testpressing promos were ever officially made.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Militant said:

The burden of proof is on TIDAL, not Comerica.

Boxill never had any kind of deal with Prince and they aren't claiming to. TIDAL are claiming they have rights to shit that they don't have.
Comerica's response.....obviously..... is.... "Prove it". TIDAL have yet to prove anything, which is why this is going to court in the first place.

Not true.

The burden of proof is on Comerica in the Federal case because they are the Plaintiff's and initiated the lawsuit. This means in trial they present their case first.

We do know there was an initial contract and Artist Equity Term Agreement between P and Tidal but it was not for Ps entire catalogue.

If Tidal filed a Counterclaim against the Estate then they have the burden to prove what relief

they are requesting in their Counterclaim.

But the initial burden of proof is on the Estate (Comerica) to prove there was no contract for the terms Tidal is demanding they have.

First let me admit I don’t know this works with regards to sending Tidal files. Do you hire someone to fly a flash drive to someone at Tidal, or simply email the files? And regardless of how the files got from P to Tidal, once Tidal uploaded them on their system there would be a time/date stamp. Computer forensics people look for that all the time…..

.

Now my question...

….

If Tidal can prove they received all the files prior to P’s death, would that be evidence of intent? Why send files to a company like Tidal if you don’t want them streamed or sold?

.

~~DD55

IstenSzek said:

Neversin said:

When "The Chocolate Invasion", "The Slaughterhouse" and "Xpectation" were posted (back when Prince was still alive) I did a comparison of the Tidal streams with the promo/testpressing CDr's...
I can't remember which albums (either "The Chocolate Invasion" or "The Slaughterhouse") were lossless, but I figured they came from the 7 disc promo/testpressing set... But they didn't... The timings were off for straight rips so my guess is that Prince provided these albums for streaming on Tidal from a different source than said CDr's...

Neversin.

[Edited 11/12/17 8:11am]

wait, what? so promo/testpressing copies were made of that 7 disc boxset and they
are 'out there?' or at least in so far as someone noted down the exact timings? this
is the first i've heard about that. that would be interesting to know more about. not
who where or what, i don't care, that's people privacy. it would just be cool if we'd
eventually be able to see photos and such of the testset.

I'd like to know more as well. Particularly, which version of Chocolate Invasion was planned for the 7-disc set.

feeluupp said:

IstenSzek said:

wait, what? so promo/testpressing copies were made of that 7 disc boxset and they
are 'out there?' or at least in so far as someone noted down the exact timings? this
is the first i've heard about that. that would be interesting to know more about. not
who where or what, i don't care, that's people privacy. it would just be cool if we'd
eventually be able to see photos and such of the testset.

No it's not true.

The only unofficial promos out there of THE CHOCOLATE INVASION, THE SLAUGHTERHOUSE & XPECTATION are from a company called SILVERLINE RECORDS and they come in digipack and are sold on eBAY... Those are not official at all.

It has already been confirmed that no testpressing promos were ever officially made.

knowing Neversin, i don't think these are what he's talking about at all.
he doesn't say much but when he does say something it's worth having
a listen, that's all i know. so i'd like to know more about what he said.

IstenSzek said:

feeluupp said:

No it's not true.

The only unofficial promos out there of THE CHOCOLATE INVASION, THE SLAUGHTERHOUSE & XPECTATION are from a company called SILVERLINE RECORDS and they come in digipack and are sold on eBAY... Those are not official at all.

It has already been confirmed that no testpressing promos were ever officially made.

knowing Neversin, i don't think these are what he's talking about at all.
he doesn't say much but when he does say something it's worth having
a listen, that's all i know. so i'd like to know more about what he said.

Romeoblu said:

They obviously had some sought of agreement.

.

Seriously? "Sought" instead of "sort"? Seriously?

laurarichardson said:

It is probably B.and it is possible that it was scheduled that music went up on Prince’s Birthday.

.

Prince was a JW, and didn't celebrate his birthday. If you're making shit up, don't be so obvious.

.

Vanity Sixx

.

Seriously?

Militant said:

http://www.startribune.co...456728283/

Yeah.... I called this months ago, and got attacked by a small minority of people who, as per usual, had no idea what they were talking about.

Fraud on the part of TIDAL. As expected.

Hang on a minute...

Prince didn't like 'signed' contracts and he made this very clear in interviews.

If this is concerning streaming of unauthorised music post-21st April, 2016, fair enough, but as far as I know, Prince himself promoted Tidal's use and stream of his music on repeated occasions, which - even though he may have not signed a contract - clearly indicated that there must have been some form of mutual agreement in place.

He might just have never gotten a chance to dealing with the finalities, especially since he passed.

[Edited 11/13/17 3:13am]

CherryMoon57 said:

Militant said:

http://www.startribune.co...456728283/

Yeah.... I called this months ago, and got attacked by a small minority of people who, as per usual, had no idea what they were talking about.

Fraud on the part of TIDAL. As expected.

Hang on a minute...

Prince didn't like 'signed' contracts and he made this very clear in interviews.

If this is concerning streaming of unauthorised music post-21st April, 2016, fair enough, but as far as I know, Prince himself promoted Tidal's use and stream of his music on repeated occasions, which - even though he may have not signed a contract - clearly indicated that there must have been some form of mutual agreement in place.

He might just have never gotten a chance to dealing with the finalities, especially since he passed.

[Edited 11/13/17 3:13am]

The only problem once again is that at first the allegation was that no contract exsisted at all and now the allegation is that their is a contract that has been doctored. What will the allegation be next week?

Stop assuming that this deal did not have a contract and remember Tidal is a subsidary of a larger company and it is hightly unlikely that this whole deal was done without any contract simply due to vulnerablity that Tidal would have to being accused of copyright infringement.

Also once again someone explain that if massive copyright infringement is taking place how come Comerica has not gone to court to get an injunction to remove the WB material at least until the case goes to court.

Can someone explain that one?

[Edited 11/13/17 5:01am]

DD55 said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Not true.

The burden of proof is on Comerica in the Federal case because they are the Plaintiff's and initiated the lawsuit. This means in trial they present their case first.

We do know there was an initial contract and Artist Equity Term Agreement between P and Tidal but it was not for Ps entire catalogue.

If Tidal filed a Counterclaim against the Estate then they have the burden to prove what relief

they are requesting in their Counterclaim.

But the initial burden of proof is on the Estate (Comerica) to prove there was no contract for the terms Tidal is demanding they have.

First let me admit I don’t know this works with regards to sending Tidal files. Do you hire someone to fly a flash drive to someone at Tidal, or simply email the files? And regardless of how the files got from P to Tidal, once Tidal uploaded them on their system there would be a time/date stamp. Computer forensics people look for that all the time…..

.

Now my question...

….

If Tidal can prove they received all the files prior to P’s death, would that be evidence of intent? Why send files to a company like Tidal if you don’t want them streamed or sold?

.

~~DD55

Yes, if Tidal can prove they received those files directly from Prince prior to his death with some prearranged time table it would prove intent. Also along with any money they paid Prince. Why would he have sent files if they were never to be put on the platform. I do not care what anyone on this board thinks. I simply think Comerica does not like some aspect of the deal with Tidal and wants to get out of it. I do not think Tidal has exclusivity and I think that is the only thing that Comerica is correct about.

It is probably B.and it is possible that it was scheduled that music went up on Prince’s Birthday.

.

Prince was a JW, and didn't celebrate his birthday. If you're making shit up, don't be so obvious.

.-----

Sorry Bart but the people who had the conference on Prince in England said that they interviewed Bria Valente and she said the reason she broke up with Prince was because he did not that the JW beliefs seriously and she did. I would suspect that celebrating his birthday might have been one of those things he did not take seriously.

Also he had put out music on his birthday many times in the past. Also putting out music on Tidal on his birthday is not exactly like having a birthday party.

Can you ever bring anything of substance to a coversation?

BartVanHemelen said:

laurarichardson said:

Vanity Sixx

.

Seriously?

laurarichardson said:

CherryMoon57 said:

Hang on a minute...

Prince didn't like 'signed' contracts and he made this very clear in interviews.

If this is concerning streaming of unauthorised music post-21st April, 2016, fair enough, but as far as I know, Prince himself promoted Tidal's use and stream of his music on repeated occasions, which - even though he may have not signed a contract - clearly indicated that there must have been some form of mutual agreement in place.

He might just have never gotten a chance to dealing with the finalities, especially since he passed.

[Edited 11/13/17 3:13am]

The only problem once again is that at first the allegation was that no contract exsisted at all and now the allegation is that their is a contract that has been doctored. What will the allegation be next week?

Stop assuming that this deal did not have a contract and remember Tidal is a subsidary of a larger company and it is hightly unlikely that this whole deal was done without any contract simply due to vulnerablity that Tidal would have to being accused of copyright infringement.

Also once again someone explain that if massive copyright infringement is taking place how come Comerica has not gone to court to get an injunction to remove the WB material at least until the case goes to court.

Can someone explain that one?

[Edited 11/13/17 5:01am]

I think you misunderstood me. I didn't insinuate there weren't any, just that Prince wasn't originally keen on contracts. But like I said, even so, there are currently more public evidences pointing towards a highly likely partnering between Prince and Tidal than say with YouTube or any other streaming websites. Yet as you said no one has raised an eyebrow after some decisions were taken before receiving any formal stamp of approval.

CherryMoon57 said:

OperatingThetan said:

CherryMoon57 said:

I think you misunderstood me. I didn't insinuate there weren't any, just that Prince wasn't originally keen on contracts. But like I said, even so, there are currently more public evidences pointing towards a highly likely partnering between Prince and Tidal than say with YouTube or any other streaming websites. Yet as you said no one has raised an eyebrow after some decisions were taken before receiving any formal stamp of approval.

Exactly. Prince openly criticised Spotify and Youtube, yet those are the venues his estate chose to make his music available to. As I wrote earlier, that might not be legally fraudulent, but it arguably is ethically and morally so. Whether Prince would have remained with Tidal for many years to come had he lived or whether he would've moved on after the deal expired is conjecture. What is categorically not conjecture nor in any doubt is that Prince chose to work exclusively with Tidal and was clearly happy with the terms and payment right up until his passing. [Edited 11/13/17 9:10am]

Co-sign I feel that it was extremely unethical to move his music to Sportify when it was known that he did not like the financial arrangements and had already set up a deal with Tidal.

I cannot understand the attacks on Tidal iniatlly by LM and the mainstream media when so much documentatio is avalible to the public that tell you exactly what Prince wanted. He did not have a will but he had contracts and the real question is why are the being breached to the point of causing lawsuits.

Militant said:

FlyOnTheWall said:

Has it ever been determined how TIDAL gained access to Prince's digital catalogue in the first place? It had to be granted by Prince, no? And, I'm not saying that the Estate is wrong. I'm just asking for clarity, as that, it seems to me, is a missing piece of this story.

[Edited 11/10/17 19:08pm]

No, of course not.

Anyone with a copy of any audio can upload it to TIDAL or any other digital platform. All you need to do is sign up with a free account on any distributor such as DistroKid or TuneCore, upload the audio and art, tick a box that says "I own the rights to this" and boom - it'll be on there.

Recently, bootlegs of Madhouse 24 were up on TIDAL and other streaming platforms. Cuz someone uploaded them and figured they'd rake in the profits and see if anyone bothered to come after them. Madhouse 24 was never even officially released!

Seems pretty damn obvious that TIDAL, in the wake of Prince's death, thought "oh yeah, let's upload a bunch of material to capitalize on this", found their copies of Chocolate Invasion, Goldnigga or whatever else they uploaded after P's death and stuck em up there.

The only way they could have gotten away with this is

A) They have a contract with Prince that says "You can have the streaming rights to literally everything I've ever released" - which they would have provided by now, if they had it.

or

B) They have a contract that specifies every single album they were authorised to upload and it includes all the ones that didn't appear on TIDAL until after P died, which was some months after the original batch upload, which begs the question - why didn't they upload them at the same time as everything else?

What get's me, Mil, is how they were able to get such high quality copies of NPGMC releases, etc. I'm sure CD rips could have been used for the other stuff, but the stuff that was originally released in highly compressed audio were suddenly available in near-lossless quality.

Perhaps P gave Tidal that access and was planning on releasing all the previous music on there eventually, but then he passed?

[Edited 11/13/17 9:54am]

OperatingThetan said:

CherryMoon57 said:

I think you misunderstood me. I didn't insinuate there weren't any, just that Prince wasn't originally keen on contracts. But like I said, even so, there are currently more public evidences pointing towards a highly likely partnering between Prince and Tidal than say with YouTube or any other streaming websites. Yet as you said no one has raised an eyebrow after some decisions were taken before receiving any formal stamp of approval.

Exactly. Prince openly criticised Spotify and Youtube, yet those are the venues his estate chose to make his music available to. As I wrote earlier, that might not be legally fraudulent, but it arguably is ethically and morally so. Whether Prince would have remained with Tidal for many years to come had he lived or whether he would've moved on after the deal expired is conjecture. What is categorically not conjecture nor in any doubt is that Prince chose to work exclusively with Tidal and was clearly happy with the terms and payment right up until his passing. [Edited 11/13/17 9:10am]

Yep

TrcikyChristopher said:

OperatingThetan said:

The estate's story according to recent news items is that Tidal had Prince's permission to stream one album only - HITnRUN Phase One. This is blatantly false and can be disproved by Prince's twitter and instagram accounts (see some of the tweets I posted above) and interviews given during the time period.

Ridculous, I guess Prince did not notice the NPG material on the site and I guess his double sent the "Purple Pick" and "Always" playlist. Wait he did not even realize that he sent the songs from the Atlanta show. He forgot he sent out tweets and did interviews.

People need to look past this and see the extreme unethical behavior. Does anyone think that Prince promoted Tidal for the sole purpose of streaming one album that did not come along until almost a year after the deal was agreed to.

what they had BEFORE his death is what they should be allowed to use NOW only.

luvsexy4all said:

what they had BEFORE his death is what they should be allowed to use NOW only.

But what is being alleged is that only Hit and Run should be on the site.

laurarichardson said:

luvsexy4all said:

what they had BEFORE his death is what they should be allowed to use NOW only.

But what is being alleged is that only Hit and Run should be on the site.

they are obviously insane prince provided them with songs from the piano & microphone
shows up to the week before he died. why are these people being so difficult?

laurarichardson said:

luvsexy4all said:

what they had BEFORE his death is what they should be allowed to use NOW only.

But what is being alleged is that only Hit and Run should be on the site.

the estate should use madhouse 24 as a prescedent

luvsexy4all said:

laurarichardson said:

But what is being alleged is that only Hit and Run should be on the site.

the estate should use madhouse 24 as a prescedent

Why? This has been uploaded illegally by a third party to all streaming services (not just Tidal) and has no relation to this article or case.

luvsexy4all said:

laurarichardson said:

But what is being alleged is that only Hit and Run should be on the site.

the estate should use madhouse 24 as a prescedent

Madhouse 24, 16, 8, the Family Vanity 6 are all on Itunes, Spotify and Tidal not by the estates or Tidal's doing.

Tidal recently however deleted that 24 bootleg.

If anybody would like further information regarding Londell's 'business practices' they should read this from page 26 onwards:

http://www.mncourts.gov/m...-10-17.pdf

IstenSzek said:

laurarichardson said:

But what is being alleged is that only Hit and Run should be on the site.

they are obviously insane prince provided them with songs from the piano & microphone
shows up to the week before he died. why are these people being so difficult?

It's clearly insane and can be disproved by a brief read of Prince's twitter account and even the most cursory glance at the material Prince provided to Tidal during his lifetime and the exclusive nature of much of it, righ up until the week of his passing. STILL, there are people here who should know better questioning Prince's intent regardless, probably more due to their own prejudices and preconceptions than anything else.

paisleypark4 said:

luvsexy4all said:

the estate should use madhouse 24 as a prescedent

Madhouse 24, 16, 8, the Family Vanity 6 are all on Itunes, Spotify and Tidal not by the estates or Tidal's doing.

Tidal recently however deleted that 24 bootleg.

I contacted the estate about these titles so I am pretty sure they all will going soon.

OperatingThetan said:

If anybody would like further information regarding Londell's 'business practices' they should read this from page 26 onwards:

http://www.mncourts.gov/m...-10-17.pdf

This asshole is trying to get his daughters music on Sportify by directly contacting Troy. WTF. I wonder if he is building SNJ for this time as estate business.

He is out trying to negotiate deals with his company which are competing with estate deals.

It is naked greed.