Rome is mentioned in at least three of Prince's songs (Revelation, Chelsea Rodgers and Dreamin' About U). As part of my studies, I was looking at a photo of the Urbs Roma coins (Constantinian Commemorative Issue) and the lyrics contained in Dreamin' About U immediately sprung to mind: in the fourth verse, Prince compares two sides of his personnality to the mythological twins Romulus & Remus. Also, see how the U on the coin is shaped like a moon crescent and a star, and these two symbols were often used by Prince... I just thought that was rather interesting. Do you think Roman or ancient history/mythology may have had a strong influence on Prince's work? Did anyone notice any other lyrics connecting to this theme?

http://www.coinsofplanete...y-of-rome/


When my sane twin reigns
Claiming your aim is 2 maim my subconscious into being with U
I dream about U
Betting on the notion that if my lustier twin prevails
Like the ruins of Rome, I'll lie helpless at your feet
Yeah, when I'm alone
I dream about U, I dream about U

Prince - Dreamin' About U

[Edited 10/16/17 3:09am]

Stretching a bit, but certainly an interesting thread nonetheless.

.

I think the Romulus Remus lyric is purely about being twins (Gemini) and nothing more. The other songs you point out refer specifically to early/pre-Christianity or things going on in that time period in the Empire. So I think his interest, at least in the past 20 years say, was directly related to his interest in Christianity.

.

You could also add 'The Christ' maybe to that list, I think Prince's explanation for the lyric change specifically referenced the use of the staurous by the Romans.

NorthC said:

Purple and Gold were the colours of the Roman emperors.

Yes, it looks like the song Purple and Gold also contains a Roman analogy (i.e. comparing the Minneapolis games to the Roman/gladiators Games).

NouveauDance said:

Stretching a bit, but certainly an interesting thread nonetheless.

.

I think the Romulus Remus lyric is purely about being twins (Gemini) and nothing more. The other songs you point out refer specifically to early/pre-Christianity or things going on in that time period in the Empire. So I think his interest, at least in the past 20 years say, was directly related to his interest in Christianity.

.

You could also add 'The Christ' maybe to that list, I think Prince's explanation for the lyric change specifically referenced the use of the staurous by the Romans.

I agree that his interest in Rome and his religious interests are probably closely linked but I don't think it is that far fetched. As with a lot of Prince lyrics, I think the meaning of a song often goes a lot deeper than first appears.

See how many times the letter 'U' is repeated throughout the lyrics? Plus there is a direct reference to Rome itself and the city (whose other name is 'Urb Roma') is also represented as a moon shaped U on Roman coins... He also seems to refer to a part of himself being dead once his 'lustier' twin survives and reigns.

"[Rome] successively became the capital of the Roman Kingdom, the Roman Republic and the Roman Empire and is regarded as the birthplace of Western civilisation and by some as the first ever metropolis.[6] It was first called The Eternal City (Latin: Urbs Aeterna; Italian: La Città Eterna) by the Roman poet Tibullus in the 1st century BC, and the expression was also taken up by Ovid, Virgil, and Livy.[7][8] Rome is also called the "Caput Mundi" (Capital of the World)." (Wikipedia)

From a religious perspective, the World being sometimes a synonym for all things unholy perhaps the song is about temptation being the ruin of a man's soul... Or something along those lines.

[Edited 9/27/17 10:33am]

CherryMoon57 said:

See how many times the letter 'U' is repeated throughout the lyrics?

I mean it's called Dreamin' About U - it's going to be used a lot. Like I said... stretching. Why not include the song 'U' as well?

Just found another one:

Love Sign (1994)

[...]

In a chariot of red and gold
The cool, fuzzy voice said "Come save your soul"
Before the fear of rejection reared its head
He stood before the masses and calmly said

[...]

NouveauDance said:

CherryMoon57 said:

See how many times the letter 'U' is repeated throughout the lyrics?

I mean it's called Dreamin' About U - it's going to be used a lot. Like I said... stretching. Why not include the song 'U' as well?

Ok maybe the U thing is a little far fetched... but the Roman theme is definitely present.

CherryMoon57 said:

Just found another one:

Love Sign (1994)

[...]

In a chariot of red and gold
The cool, fuzzy voice said "Come save your soul"
Before the fear of rejection reared its head
He stood before the masses and calmly said

[...]

It mentions a chariot ... no mention of Rome.

Chariots were used in China, Egypt, and across many parts of Europe, including by the Romans.

Other lyrical references to 'Rome' have no obvious connection to the Roman Empire ('Cool' and 'Interesting').

dodger said:

He played at a Roman Abramovich party

And then there is also this, not Roman per se but still connected as part of ancient mediterranean mythology and also linked to Virgil's epic poem, The Aeneid (about The founders of Rome) as both inspired from Homer's The Iliad and The Odyssey. Perhaps I should re-title the thread to include both Roman and Greek influences on Prince's work, as these histories are closely intertwined.

Glam Slam Ulysses

"Glam Slam Ulysses was a 1993 musical production by Prince, loosely based on Homer's Odyssey, featuring a combination of live performances and video, with thirteen previously unreleased songs.[1]

Each song represented an element from Homer's Odyssey (Ulysses is the Latin name for the protagonist, Odysseus). The musical received a limited performance at Prince's Glam Slam nightclub, with a few shows being performed in late August to early September 1993.[2] Carmen Electra, who was relatively unknown at the time, was a featured dancer in the performance, as was Frank Williams. Jamie King provided the choreography.

When Prince first announced to change his name to an unpronounceable symbol on June 7, 1993, he also stated that he would no longer be releasing new albums; instead he was to focus on alternative performances, films, etc., while his record company, Warner Bros. Records, would be able to release albums from Prince's vault of unreleased material to fulfill his contract. The first of these alternative performances would be Glam Slam Ulysses.

Songs[edit]

As listed on a flier for the production, the story elements were represented by the following songs:

Legacy[edit]

Most of the songs would eventually be released in some form over time. "Pope" was released as part of 1993's The Hits/The B-Sides compilation. The bulk of the remaining material would be considered for the Come album, albeit not all of the planned songs made the final release. Come would end up including the following tracks: "Pheromone", "Dark", "Loose", "Space", "Race" and "Come", though "Dark", "Loose", and "Race" were heavily remixed and "Come" was re-recorded as an entirely new number. Although not listed on the Glam Slam Ulysses track listing, "Orgasm", originally part of "What's My Name" was also included on Come.

"Dolphin" and "Endorphinmachine" would end up being released on The Gold Experience in 1995 — both songs would be slightly remixed. "Interactive" was considered at one point, but did not make the final release.

"Interactive", "What's My Name" and "Strays of the World" would eventually be released on Prince's Crystal Ball in 1998, with little changes to the original versions. Also on Crystal Ball were remixes of "Dark" and "Loose" (called "So Dark" and "Get Loose"), as well as a track called "18 & Over", which is essentially a remix of the album version of "Come", but with new lyrics."




(WIKIPEDIA)

[Edited 9/27/17 15:46pm]

Pegasus (Ancient Greek: Πήγασος, Pḗgasos; Latin: Pegasus, Pegasos) is one of the best known creatures in Greek mythology. He is a winged divine stallion usually depicted as pure white in color. He was sired by Poseidon, in his role as horse-god, and foaled by the Gorgon Medusa.^[1] He was the brother of Chrysaor, born at a single birthing when his mother was decapitated by Perseus. Greco-Roman poets write about his ascent to heaven after his birth and his obeisance to Zeus, king of the gods, who instructed him to bring lightning and thunder from Olympus. Friend of the Muses, Pegasus is the creator of Hippocrene, the fountain on Mt. Helicon. He was captured by the Greek hero Bellerophon near the fountain Peirene with the help of Athena and Poseidon. Pegasus allows the hero to ride him to defeat a monster, the Chimera, before realizing many other exploits. His rider, however, falls off his back trying to reach Mount Olympus. Zeus transformed him into the constellation Pegasus and placed him up in the sky.

Hypotheses have been proposed regarding its relationship with the Muses, the gods Athena, Poseidon, Zeus, Apollo, and the hero Perseus.

The symbolism of Pegasus varies with time. Symbol of wisdom and especially of fame from the Middle Ages until the Renaissance, he became one symbol of the poetry and the creator of sources in which the poets come to draw inspiration, particularly in the 19th century. Pegasus is the subject of a very rich iconography, especially through the ancient Greek pottery and paintings and sculptures of the Renaissance.

Read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus





Back of the 'Prince' album:

The Ladder

[...]

Now this king he had a subject named Electra
Who loved him with a passion, uncontested
4 him each day she had a smile
But it didn't matter
The king was looking 4 the ladder

[...]

In Greek mythology, Elektra (/ɪˈlɛktrə/; Greek: Ἠλέκτρα, Ēlektra "amber") was the daughter of King Agamemnon and Queen Clytemnestra, and thus princess of Argos.^[1] She and her brother Orestes plotted revenge against their mother Clytemnestra and stepfather Aegisthus for the murder of their father. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electra

lust said:

Apollonia

*reads*

Fascinating thread. I am also a student of Ancient History. I believe P was as well. I also noticed the many allusions to Ancient Rome and its mythology in P's songs. The eeriest part of P's connection to Ancient Rome is that he died on the same day Rome was founded on April 21, 753 B.C. April 21 is a very significant date in history. For this reason, I do not believe his death on that day was a coincidence.

http://www.onthisday.com/...s/april/21

BeyondthePurpleZone said:

Fascinating thread. I am also a student of Ancient History. I believe P was as well. I also noticed the many allusions to Ancient Rome and its mythology in P's songs. The eeriest part of P's connection to Ancient Rome is that he died on the same day Rome was founded on April 21, 753 B.C. April 21 is a very significant date in history. For this reason, I do not believe his death on that day was a coincidence.

http://www.onthisday.com/...s/april/21

Oh wow, I hadn't even realised that... Yes, this is rather eerie isn't it.

BeyondthePurpleZone said:

lust said:

BeyondthePurpleZone said:

Fascinating thread. I am also a student of Ancient History. I believe P was as well. I also noticed the many allusions to Ancient Rome and its mythology in P's songs. The eeriest part of P's connection to Ancient Rome is that he died on the same day Rome was founded on April 21, 753 B.C. April 21 is a very significant date in history. For this reason, I do not believe his death on that day was a coincidence.

http://www.onthisday.com/...s/april/21

Pick any date. Look at what happened in history on that date. Find a very tenuous link to something prince sang or said and boom. Your evolved human trait of pattern recognition is short circuiting I'm afraid.

Oh, put the skeptic gun away for a minute. Go over to AA&P and ask Cat a question. At least, this isn't rehashing the exact same stuff for the 20th time.

morningsong said:

lust said:

morningsong said:

Oh, put the skeptic gun away for a minute. Go over to AA&P and ask Cat a question. At least, this isn't rehashing the exact same stuff for the 20th time.

My apologies. I didn't mean to ruin the fantasies with rational thinking! Must remember to adjust for the audience. That whole Roman date thing and how it correlates to Prince's death is totes spooky. And he must have already set it up back when he wrote Sometimes in April. Has to have done.

Aw save it for P&R.

morningsong said:

CherryMoon57 said:

Just found another one:

Love Sign (1994)

[...]

In a chariot of red and gold
The cool, fuzzy voice said "Come save your soul"
Before the fear of rejection reared its head
He stood before the masses and calmly said

[...]

For me this chariot reference feels more like an allusion to Ezekiel's vision. I don't guess I really have a definite reason for that, but while Prince's certainly capable of referencing classical mythology, it seems like there needs to be a compelling reason to see a classical meaning if a biblical one also presents itself. Still, I haven't thought much about this, so thanks for bringing it up--I'll be thinking about it.

lust said:

morningsong said:

lust said:

morningsong said:

Oh, put the skeptic gun away for a minute. Go over to AA&P and ask Cat a question. At least, this isn't rehashing the exact same stuff for the 20th time.

My apologies. I didn't mean to ruin the fantasies with rational thinking! Must remember to adjust for the audience. That whole Roman date thing and how it correlates to Prince's death is totes spooky. And he must have already set it up back when he wrote Sometimes in April. Has to have done.

Aw save it for P&R.

Not sure how this relates to either politics or religion but no, until such a time as the moderators see fit to make a rule making this a "safe space" for supernatural ideas and conspiracy theories where dissenting opinions are banned, I'll be sure to feel entitled to express my views.

I suggest that if you hold views that you don't feel comfortable having challenged then perhaps the issue is those views.

Good day to you!

morningsong said:

lust said:

Not sure how this relates to either politics or religion but no, until such a time as the moderators see fit to make a rule making this a "safe space" for supernatural ideas and conspiracy theories where dissenting opinions are banned, I'll be sure to feel entitled to express my views.

I suggest that if you hold views that you don't feel comfortable having challenged then perhaps the issue is those views.

Good day to you!

Too serious.