Easy there, Susu. lol . But you are 100% correct. It's self-explanatory. More specifcally, when you understand why the term is even used to determine cause of death. It is a no brainer. | |
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Menes said:
Easy there, Susu. lol . But you are 100% correct. It's self-explanatory. More specifcally, when you understand why the term is even used to determine cause of death. It is a no brainer. LOL, yeah I know. It's my day off so I actually have time to hang out here but being in direct contact with people who are either going through withdrawal, went through it, relapsed, had patients who have died from addiction I take the topic very seriously and when someone is clearly very ignorant, I have a very low tolerance for that. It's a field unknown to many and I understand that but to make ignorant comments and throw absurd conclusions makes my blood boil and I tend to let it be known....maybe a little too harshly. It's just very frustrating. | |
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Relax. Seriously. Too much self-importance is not good for the soul. Suicide is premediated murder. Therefore, a person would have to knowingly take a pill containing a lethal dose of something. The search warrants don't say if any of the other pills tested contained leghal doses, or even if the additional pills were, in fact, tested at all.
God is my Sugar Daddy. | |
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Thanks and respect for the work you do...hang in there...we got ya! | |
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Misslink88 said:
Relax. Seriously. Too much self-importance is not good for the soul. Suicide is premediated murder. Therefore, a person would have to knowingly take a pill containing a lethal dose of something. The search warrants don't say if any of the other pills tested contained leghal doses, or even if the additional pills were, in fact, tested at all.
You make me sick. Your holier than thou attitude is disgusting.This is my last response to you and I will never dignify your ignorance with further response. I hope you will see the light some day. | |
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I understand. It is evident that you are quite knowledgeable about this. Expect to get challenged , expect to get responses and questions that will not rise to your level of expertise. Par for the course round these parts. | |
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Menes said:
I understand. It is evident that you are quite knowledgeable about this. Expect to get challenged , expect to get responses and questions that will not rise to your level of expertise. Par for the course round these parts. Thanks! I read the search warrants way back but I don't remember off the top of my head now all of what was there. The only thing I remember is that he had ondansentron, benzos and counterfeit and legit oxycodone. I need to go back and look at the warrants again. It was suggested earlier that Suboxone was there prior to A Kornfeld going there. I don't believe it for a second. Ondansentron suggests P was suffering from withdrawal as nausea and vomiting are common symptoms. Whether the benzos were to alleviate the withdrawal symptoms or if he was using them for awhile also, who knows but they are used for withdrawal symptoms as withdrawal causes anxiety, agitation, nervousness, etc. I just don't remember if there was a prescription for them and for whom. For some reason I keep thinking he had Xanax (alprazolam) and that is NOT used for withdrawal symptoms so he used that for other things. Anyway, I need to check the warrants as I haven't checked them since they were published. I only looked at the one today of what was in A Kornfeld's bag as someone asked what the labels and the numbers meant. Those drugs were all to manage withdrawal symptoms. | |
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**Note the media got the Watson 385 stamp wrong. The Warrants say Watson 853.**
One pill with the "Watson 385" stamp that was analyzed by the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension tested positive for fentanyl, lidocaine and another drug. Officials found nearly two dozen pills similar to the one that was tested, the official said. Another aspirin bottle had 64 counterfeit tablets in it. Some pills that were analyzed contained fentanyl, lidocaine and U-4770 -- a synthetic drug that is eight times more powerful than morphine. Authorities also found a prescription bottle in someone else's name that contained 10 oxycodone pills, the official said, without revealing who was listed on the prescription. The official said Prince had many of these pills with him on April 15 when the airplane he was on made an emergency stop in Moline, Illinois, after he fell ill from a suspected drug overdose as he was heading home from a performance in Atlanta. Prince was given two doses of Narcan, an antidote used to reverse suspected opioid overdoses, the official said.
Authorities have analyzed over 40 different items so far, including roughly 20 different bottles or pill containers, the official said. U-4770 can be tested for in toxicology screens, but is not done routinely because it is a relatively new chemical. Presence of the drug was not tested in Prince's case, but the levels of fentanyl in his system were more than enough to be toxic, the official said. Tests on Prince prior to his death did not show fentanyl in his system, which means he wasn't a long-time abuser of that drug, but likely took the fatal dose sometime in the 24 hours before he died, the official said.
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Susu1976 said: purplefam99 said: Ahhh ok now I see, thx. And another question, the narcan he was given after the plane does that drug send you into immediate detox. Meaning in the days right after moline, do you think, prince using that detox from narcan, tired to start weaning then, or is there no need to wean because his system was clear? My direct question is after moline did his body no longer crave the pills? Thx. Your body goes into an immediate detox, yes and is extremely uncomfortable for the person as it rids the body of all trades of the opiates. Technically there is no need to wean after that but the withdrawal especially after longer-term heavy use can be so bad that the person needs help dealing with the withdrawal symptoms otherwise the risk of relapse is extremely high. Also, the person is used to taking large doses of opiates and tend to not realize the risk of an overdose if they do relapse. They often take the same amount they used to take prior to the Narcan and their body cannot handle that dose. Another important thing to remember is that dependency/addiction is rarely just a physiological issue especially after long term use regardless of why the person is taking me drug or started taking it in the first place, so the person craves the opiate on a psychological level even after the physiological cravings subside. That's why detox should always be followed by rehab even if it's out-patient. Obviously I wasn't there to witness Prince's level of dependency/addiction but just by judging by the sheer number of pills found and the classic behavior of someone who is using heavily ( being able to function indicates high tolerance, the hiding of pills is text book addict behavior) I would assume that he became very ill physically and mentally in the days following the Moline incident and he couldn't cope with the withdrawal symptoms and took that fatal dose to alleviate them. If he had just battled it out for a few more hrs ( severe withdrawal can be sheer hell so it certainly easier said than done), the outcome might have been very different. Thx Susu, I appreciate your reply and answer. | |
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IIRC, there was never anything released that it was "one" pill that caused the overdose but only that the concentrations were high is his sytem. The full toxicology report was never released, is that correct? God is my Sugar Daddy. | |
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You made this point: :His overdose wasn't directly due to taking the dose he was used to taking but simply a result of the fact that he did not know that the pill(s) were laced with a gigantic amount of fentanyl. I have no idea what he did but all I know that A Kornfeld brought those meds to PP to treat withdrawals. So, either P was in withdrawals or there was hope he would agree to detox for good and the meds were there to get him started." Based on that, I made the comment that I believe he didn't commit suicide at which point you came out swinging. It IS possible to have a civil conversation about it even if you disagree. No "holier than thou" comment was intended. I didn't question your expert opinion. I simply stated my belief based on the reports I've read. God is my Sugar Daddy. | |
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Correct. I have never heard how many pills, whether it was 1 or 10 that caused the overdose. The full toxicology report was never released, but it did leak, or a partial of it leaked. | |
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PennyPurple said:
Correct. I have never heard how many pills, whether it was 1 or 10 that caused the overdose. The full toxicology report was never released, but it did leak, or a partial of it leaked. And the leaked info was??? | |
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Read the entire article at the link, it's really interesting.
Toxicology results revealed Prince's blood fentanyl level measured 67.8 milligrams. Three is considered fatal by experts. His liver fentanyl level topped 435 milligrams. Anything above 69 is toxic, according to investigators. And his gastric fentanyl registered at 14,000, an extraordinarily high amount, and more than his 112-pound body could handle, according to sources. | |
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It also has to be considered that the so-called "leaked" tox report was one of three scenarios: leaked, partially leaked, or made up. We really have no idea at all which is true of those 3 scenarios. Much like a great deal of the info we have gotten from unsubstantiated sources. [Edited 11/29/17 21:39pm] Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end | |
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Can anyone answer this question for me. I see the leaked report states his gastric Fentanyl levels. Is the only way to have meds show up gastrically is by the pills being swallowed. For instance does a heroin addict that shoots up, does the drug show up in his gastric system or just his blood stream? Is gastric limited to the stomach only? Thx. | |
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purplefam99 said: Can anyone answer this question for me. I see the leaked report states his gastric Fentanyl levels. Is the only way to have meds show up gastrically is by the pills being swallowed. For instance does a heroin addict that shoots up, does the drug show up in his gastric system or just his blood stream? Is gastric limited to the stomach only? Thx.
Gastric is limited to stomach content only.Your digestive system stops (obviously) the minute you die, so whatever is in the gastric system would be an indication as to what didn't get into the blood stream before the person died and is not really accurate way to determine how much substance the person had in his or her system (i.e. absorbed by the body) at the time of death. Usually, if there is a load of undigested pills, it might indicate suicide. Or, there might just be one pill because the person took two pills and one was strong enough to kill. Other evidence would be found in renal, hepatic, blood, bile, ocular fluid, urine, brain tissue and skin samples. Since we don't have Prince's full tox, we don't know how many samples and from where she, the ME took. [Edited 11/29/17 23:35pm] [Edited 11/29/17 23:36pm] | |
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Well, I appreciate your insight and I have learned a lot from your discussion. Thanks again. | |
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The alleged tox report was never picked up by any other news agencies. I dont even think the Star Tribune ran this story, did it? | |
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64 Counterfeit tablets... Good Gracious! | |
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I never saw it on the Star Tribune, but I could have overlooked it. | |
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A "source" leaked partial information from the supposed toxicology report in question to the Star Tribune. It is not clear if they got the information first hand ( as in they saw the actual report) or just repeated what a "source" was told. | |
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Thanks Menes...keep staring folks | |
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Can you be more specific as to the two sentences I have bolded? The wooh is on the one! | |
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Not sure what urine test have to do with gastric test but okay. I keep ending up exactly where I ended up a long time ago. | |
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It was mentioned by Andrew that he blood was pooling and that he believed that Prince had been deceased for sometime.
They put his death at six hours earlier and many of us have wondered about that and the amount reported by the media of Fentenyl in his system.
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Go back and read what you typed. You are making yourself sick not me. I hope you get help since my opinions are worrying you so much. | |
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No. Not in detail. I will not do that. I don't mean to be rude or short with my response but that will take us on a serious detour . Since I seem to be the only person calculating , and recalculating, I think it would be unfair to qualify anything like that at this time. I know we want the most salacious thing we can find to be posted. This is why I am careful with the leaks. | |
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1) You do not understand that Andrew is not a doctor and had controlled substances in his possession and brought them across states line. 2) Andrew broke the law and his intent means nothing. 3) The police even inform of the law he has broken in the search warrant. 4) You are an expert in pharmacology but ignorant concerning the laws that govern who can have possession of these drugs and administer them. 5) You are making up Andrew’s intent because you do not know his intent and neither to do I. We both know he broke the law and his intent means nothing. 6) I have never said I am right and everybody else is wrong so once again you are making something up that is not true to try and make some point. 7) Only unintelligent people ignore facts like you have decided to do A) Andrew breaking the law no matter what his intent was B) Illegality of bringing controlled substances across state lines. C) The background information on Dr K which is bad D) The fact that Andrew and Dr. K were not needed since Hazelton was down the street.
[Edited 11/30/17 10:40am] | |
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Some of you think you know so much. I have seen screen shots from people who worked for Prince who said he told them to get their stuff out of Paisley Park because they might not be able to get their stuff out later. His sister is telling you she knew ahead of time based on an e-mail he sent her, Someone perhaps Pheadra may have had POA to sign docs for him, he had widdled his staff down to 2 people, and he sent everyone away and made sure the security cams were turned off.
He could have very well have known what was in the those pills or just decided to roll the dice and take as many as possible. None of the things I mentioned would have any bearing on the ME decision on calling his death accidental but there is enough information to make it plausible to appear to have been a sucidial effort.
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