NotACleverName said:

I am a fan of honest words but,
Come on y'all that is awful sentiment to leave with anyone. It takes all kinds.

NotACleverName said:

laurarichardson said:

—How did those prayers work out for you? Not too well.

Hope springs eternal. I also know that you are your own worst enemy and one day, this will be your undoing.

I hope you get the help you need. Because you disagree with my opinions I should meet some bad fate. Get a grip it is not that serious.

purplefam99 said:

Susu1976 said:

First of all, do NOT try to lecture me on pharmacology. I know with 100% certainty I know more about it than you do. I deal with it on daily basis. You on the other hand go on Google and copy things. HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DO I NEED TO SAY SUBXONE IS NOT ADMINISTERD UNTIL AT LEAST 8 HRS AFTER THE PERSON LAST TOOK OPIOIDS IN ANY FORM?!? Does it not compute to you why that might be the case?!? It is so they the person no longer has other opioids in his or her system and therefore avoiding an overdose. Also to avoid overdose naloxone is added to Suboxone in addition to buprenorphine. You are suggesting that A Kornfeld went to PP essentially to give Prince a fatal dose of opiates. Give me a motive as to why. If you can't, you need to take several seats and stfu.And now that we're talking privilege, what's Kirk Johnson's excuse for not sitting in jail right now? He allegedly provided Prince with controlled substances under his own name. That's a federal crime. If you're going to start pointing fingers then point them at all who might have been involved, not just the ones that fit into your conspiracy theory bs. I'm done trying to talk sense to you. I have zero tolerance for people who can't see facts unless they fit their opinions and own narratives. Happy Holidays.

I thought suboxone was like narcan. And given to block opiates if it is like narcan why would you wait 8 hrs to give an antidote? Thx trying to understand here.

Let me explain something to you because once again we have a drug expert who is making something more complicated them it is because well they are an expert and the rest of us were hatched yesterday.

1) Dr. K or is idiot son would not have any way of know what drugs Prince had taken in the last 8 hours of his life as they were not his doctors and had no access to him during that time frame.

If Andrew had administered anything to him he might have killed him since he had no idea what Prince had taken.

2) I am not suggesting that Andrew went to PP to overdose and kill Prince. I am saying that his ignorance and like of a medical degree would have caused him to kill Prince. I never said that was his intent. Intent is something you keep bring up not me. Now you need to sit down somewhere and try using your brain instead of making up stuff.

3) I have never given Kirk or Andrew any slack and if someone goes to jail it will probaly be Kirk. Not Dr. S or Andrew. I do not give a rat's ass what tolerance you have because you are so busy defending Andrew and Dr. K who probaly just wanted to get a wealthy person in their quack client that they were willing to break the law. If you used your head you would see what this was really all about and try doing a little research on the complaints against Dr. K. after all you are an drug expert who does not seem to understand federal laws or anything about drug interactions.

purplefam99 said:

No, Narcan is the brand name for naloxone, which is the antidote for opiates. Suboxone/Subutex are brand names for a combo drug buprenorphine/naloxone.Two entirely different things but I understand it's confusing because there's naloxone in both. The buprenorphine part is an opioid. Because it is an opioid, it is important they the person no longer has opioids in his or her system when Suboxone is being administered. That's where the eight hours come in. The amount of naloxone in Suboxone does not block buprenorphine strain of opioid from working comparatively. Suboxone is used only when a person is already way into the withdrawals. Some may wonder why treat opioid addiction with opioids but Suboxone while addictive is nowhere near as potent as let's say oxycodone and tapering is easier with less side effects. Benzodiazepine addiction is sometimes treated with a lesser benzo e.g. Xanax vs. Librium. These are not the only drugs used but rather during the acute detox period. I mention earlier that Prince probably would have been on antiemetics, a small dosage of a benzo, and maybe Clonidine or beta blockers depending on his symptoms. Everyone is a bit different. Once the detox is done, the person is often put on naltrexone which blocks the "feel good" aspect of opioids therefore diminishing it's desired effects. Prince would have probably had been put on that and given an alternative pain management treatment that wouldn't involve opiates.
[Edited 11/29/17 12:43pm]

laurarichardson said:

Ha...dramatic much?! I'm referring to WORDS and how your conduct will affect your tenure on this forum.

laurarichardson said:

Ermm, what part of Federal law do I not understand according to you?!? ANDREW KORNFELD NEWER GAVE PRINCE ANYTHING so stop the shoulda woulda coulda. Yes, I am an expert in pharmacology and damn proud of it, thank you. What stuff did I make up? Please, list them or like I already said STFU.
When I brought up intent it was as in Andrew Kornfeld's obvious intent was to get Prince into path of detox. Understanding context doesn't seem to be your strength, neither is reading comprehension, rational and critical thinking, logic....ugh I give up. The list is too long.
Speaking of resident expert, haven't you crowned yourself all things ever discussed in this forum as nobody is ever correct except you?
Anyway, like I said I am not going at this back and forth with an idiot like you. There are so many intelligent posters in t!his forum to converse with. You are not one of them and not worth my time.

laurarichardson said:

purplefam99 said:

Susu1976 said: I thought suboxone was like narcan. And given to block opiates if it is like narcan why would you wait 8 hrs to give an antidote? Thx trying to understand here.

Let me explain something to you because once again we have a drug expert who is making something more complicated them it is because well they are an expert and the rest of us were hatched yesterday.

1) Dr. K or is idiot son would not have any way of know what drugs Prince had taken in the last 8 hours of his life as they were not his doctors and had no access to him during that time frame.

If Andrew had administered anything to him he might have killed him since he had no idea what Prince had taken.

2) I am not suggesting that Andrew went to PP to overdose and kill Prince. I am saying that his ignorance and like of a medical degree would have caused him to kill Prince. I never said that was his intent. Intent is something you keep bring up not me. Now you need to sit down somewhere and try using your brain instead of making up stuff.

3) I have never given Kirk or Andrew any slack and if someone goes to jail it will probaly be Kirk. Not Dr. S or Andrew. I do not give a rat's ass what tolerance you have because you are so busy defending Andrew and Dr. K who probaly just wanted to get a wealthy person in their quack client that they were willing to break the law. If you used your head you would see what this was really all about and try doing a little research on the complaints against Dr. K. after all you are an drug expert who does not seem to understand federal laws or anything about drug interactions.

I get how you feel.

Personally, I don't think it was so much a money grab as opposed to a dire last resort especially if Dad was working with another client in pratically the same boat. What professional drops one client to runoff to another potential client? Somebody needed to be in MN immediately, which left only the son available.

iirc, the scenerio was supposed to be convincing Prince, then take him to another clinic with another Dr. who never was nor will never be mentioned because of so much limelight, and then administer those meds in the backpack in case they were unavailable in the MN area. Why would Dr. S need to make a housecall with test the very next day if there wasn't a plan to take place?

purplefam99 said:

I agree that "it takes all kinds" as your response could very well be viewed as evidence of such. I leave you with this....

Read Reply #692 to better understand the direction of the conversation. This should provide you with the context in which I used that statement of "undoing". Further, perhaps this - https://www.google.com/se...sture+mean - will also clear up any confusion as to what "put out to pasture" means.

Susu1976 said:

Ahhh ok now I see, thx. And another question, the narcan he was given after the plane does that drug send you into immediate detox. Meaning in the days right after moline, do you think, prince using that detox from narcan, tired to start weaning then, or is there no need to wean because his system was clear?
My direct question is after moline did his body no longer crave the pills?
Thx.

purplefam99 said:

Suboxone is N2. Promethazine suppository is generic name for Phenergan and is antiemetic (antinausea/antivomiting med) 54 411 is buprenorphine. (Mylan) 457 is lorazepan, a generic name for Ativan, a benzodiazepine (an class of drugs known as anxiolytics and can also be used as antiseizure/anticonvulsant during a withdrawals.)Yes, they are all SOP drugs for opiates withdrawal.
[Edited 11/29/17 13:29pm]

Susu1976 said:

Thank you!

purplefam99 said:

NotACleverName said:

Hope springs eternal. I also know that you are your own worst enemy and one day, this will be your undoing.

I am a fan of honest words but, Come on y'all that is awful sentiment to leave with anyone. It takes all kinds.

Pardon the interruption. I was waiting for Mule to give us some analytics and data as opposed to a grainy video and a "black messiah pamphlet" that attempts to explain how and why Prince died. Maybe he will surface at some point with the information.

Anyhow, I just happened to run across this post and it reminded me of some historical content.

In regards to "awful sentiment to leave with anyone" : In World War II, Switzerland's neutrality was met with disdain by those who had suffered at the hands of the German war machine . The citizens of allied countries had endured the atrocities for many years. Switzerland's point of contention was that because it wasn't happening to them , they didn't have to choose sides between neighbors. Some labeled them sympathizers as they continued to burn both ends of the candle in order to maintain neutrality in the face of clear evidence that Germany was but a killing machine.

It was their way of staying relevant without being attacked by the Germans. Needless to say , this neutrality bore the permanent mark of distrust since it seemed that although Switzerland saw the evidence , they feigned ignorance. It's always good to know who is who.

Back on track with the warrants and tidbits.

Menes said:

purplefam99 said:

NotACleverName said: I am a fan of honest words but, Come on y'all that is awful sentiment to leave with anyone. It takes all kinds.

Pardon the interruption. I was waiting for Mule to give us some analytics and data as opposed to a grainy video and a "black messiah pamphlet" that attempts to explain how and why Prince died. Maybe he will surface at some point with the information.

Anyhow, I just happened to run across this post and it reminded me of some historical content.

In regards to "awful sentiment to leave with anyone" : In World War II, Switzerland's neutrality was met with disdain by those who had suffered at the hands of the German war machine . The citizens of allied countries had endured the atrocities for many years. Switzerland's point of contention was that because it wasn't happening to them , they didn't have to choose sides between neighbors. Some labeled them sympathizers as they continued to burn both ends of the candle in order to maintain neutrality in the face of clear evidence that Germany was but a killing machine.

It was their way of staying relevant without being attacked by the Germans. Needless to say , this neutrality bore the permanent mark of distrust since it seemed that although Switzerland saw the evidence , they feigned ignorance. It's always good to know who is who.

Back on track with the warrants and tidbits.

Why do you think Prince died? Accidental OD or suicide?

[Edited 11/29/17 13:49pm]

purplefam99 said:

Your body goes into an immediate detox, yes and is extremely uncomfortable for the person as it rids the body of all trades of the opiates. Technically there is no need to wean after that but the withdrawal especially after longer-term heavy use can be so bad that the person needs help dealing with the withdrawal symptoms otherwise the risk of relapse is extremely high. Also, the person is used to taking large doses of opiates and tend to not realize the risk of an overdose if they do relapse. They often take the same amount they used to take prior to the Narcan and their body cannot handle that dose. Another important thing to remember is that dependency/addiction is rarely just a physiological issue especially after long term use regardless of why the person is taking me drug or started taking it in the first place, so the person craves the opiate on a psychological level even after the physiological cravings subside. That's why detox should always be followed by rehab even if it's out-patient.
Obviously I wasn't there to witness Prince's level of dependency/addiction but just by judging by the sheer number of pills found and the classic behavior of someone who is using heavily ( being able to function indicates high tolerance, the hiding of pills is text book addict behavior) I would assume that he became very ill physically and mentally in the days following the Moline incident and he couldn't cope with the withdrawal symptoms and took that fatal dose to alleviate them. If he had just battled it out for a few more hrs ( severe withdrawal can be sheer hell so it certainly easier said than done), the outcome might have been very different.

Susu1976 said:

purplefam99 said:

Ahhh ok now I see, thx. And another question, the narcan he was given after the plane does that drug send you into immediate detox. Meaning in the days right after moline, do you think, prince using that detox from narcan, tired to start weaning then, or is there no need to wean because his system was clear? My direct question is after moline did his body no longer crave the pills? Thx.

Your body goes into an immediate detox, yes and is extremely uncomfortable for the person as it rids the body of all trades of the opiates. Technically there is no need to wean after that but the withdrawal especially after longer-term heavy use can be so bad that the person needs help dealing with the withdrawal symptoms otherwise the risk of relapse is extremely high. Also, the person is used to taking large doses of opiates and tend to not realize the risk of an overdose if they do relapse. They often take the same amount they used to take prior to the Narcan and their body cannot handle that dose. Another important thing to remember is that dependency/addiction is rarely just a physiological issue especially after long term use regardless of why the person is taking me drug or started taking it in the first place, so the person craves the opiate on a psychological level even after the physiological cravings subside. That's why detox should always be followed by rehab even if it's out-patient. Obviously I wasn't there to witness Prince's level of dependency/addiction but just by judging by the sheer number of pills found and the classic behavior of someone who is using heavily ( being able to function indicates high tolerance, the hiding of pills is text book addict behavior) I would assume that he became very ill physically and mentally in the days following the Moline incident and he couldn't cope with the withdrawal symptoms and took that fatal dose to alleviate them. If he had just battled it out for a few more hrs ( severe withdrawal can be sheer hell so it certainly easier said than done), the outcome might have been very different.

But he was out and about a lot in the days after the Moline incident. He didn't look sick at all. How is that possible?

[Edited 11/29/17 13:55pm]

paulludvig said:

Menes said:

Pardon the interruption. I was waiting for Mule to give us some analytics and data as opposed to a grainy video and a "black messiah pamphlet" that attempts to explain how and why Prince died. Maybe he will surface at some point with the information.

Anyhow, I just happened to run across this post and it reminded me of some historical content.

In regards to "awful sentiment to leave with anyone" : In World War II, Switzerland's neutrality was met with disdain by those who had suffered at the hands of the German war machine . The citizens of allied countries had endured the atrocities for many years. Switzerland's point of contention was that because it wasn't happening to them , they didn't have to choose sides between neighbors. Some labeled them sympathizers as they continued to burn both ends of the candle in order to maintain neutrality in the face of clear evidence that Germany was but a killing machine.

It was their way of staying relevant without being attacked by the Germans. Needless to say , this neutrality bore the permanent mark of distrust since it seemed that although Switzerland saw the evidence , they feigned ignorance. It's always good to know who is who.

Back on track with the warrants and tidbits.

Why do you think Prince died? Accidental OD or suicide?

[Edited 11/29/17 13:49pm]

Hello Paul,

Tis' a tantalizing question isn't it? By the ME's definition/restricted guidelines, ( which I can accept), it is accidental. The aggregate information , to include, but not limited to: environment, upbringing, epigenetics, inherent behavioral traits, personality traits, operant conditioning, verified data( as in the warrants) and the complete destruction of an image created over a (40) year span, lends itself toward a self imposed death nail. Further analysis is required and forth coming. What say you in re: How Prince died?

paulludvig said:

I don't know. I can only go by what opiate withdrawal is like 99% of the time. He might have taken a benzo or two as he had Xanax ( or some other benzo, I don't remember now) at PP or even a small dose of an opiate gradually starting to amp up again as it doesn't take long for the body to get hooked again and that eased his symptoms a bit and for a moment. His overdose wasn't directly due to taking the dose he was used to taking but simply a result of the fact that he did not know that the pill(s) were laced with a gigantic amount of fentanyl. I have no idea what he did but all I know that A Kornfeld brought those meds to PP to treat withdrawals. So, either P was in withdrawals or there was hope he would agree to detox for good and the meds were there to get him started.

Menes said:

Hmmmm all I’m noting is that snarkiness about people isn’t needed on a facts thread. Just suggesting that leaving the “your your own worst enemy”sentiments out on a discussion board seems right course. After all if no one has a differing
View then your really just preaching to the choir or in the room alone.

Susu1976 said:

paulludvig said:

But he was out and about a lot in the days after the Moline incident. He didn't look sick at all. How is that possible?

[Edited 11/29/17 13:55pm]

I don't know. I can only go by what opiate withdrawal is like 99% of the time. He might have taken a benzo or two as he had Xanax ( or some other benzo, I don't remember now) at PP or even a small dose of an opiate gradually starting to amp up again as it doesn't take long for the body to get hooked again and that eased his symptoms a bit and for a moment. His overdose wasn't directly due to taking the dose he was used to taking but simply a result of the fact that he did not know that the pill(s) were laced with a gigantic amount of fentanyl. I have no idea what he did but all I know that A Kornfeld brought those meds to PP to treat withdrawals. So, either P was in withdrawals or there was hope he would agree to detox for good and the meds were there to get him started.

This is one rare time I actually see this stated. It still stands that if one pill had enough fentanyl to kill any adult, the debating about him taking more than his "usual" amount is moot. If that one fact is removed then any speculation under the sun sounds legit. One question the warrants do not answer is where the fentanyl came from, that is what killed him.


Fixed 'cause that isn't the only question unanswered.

[Edited 11/29/17 14:45pm]

Susu1976 said:

purplefam99 said:

I thought suboxone was like narcan. And given to block opiates if it is like narcan why would you wait 8 hrs to give an antidote? Thx trying to understand here.

No, Narcan is the brand name for naloxone, which is the antidote for opiates. Suboxone/Subutex are brand names for a combo drug buprenorphine/naloxone.Two entirely different things but I understand it's confusing because there's naloxone in both. The buprenorphine part is an opioid. Because it is an opioid, it is important they the person no longer has opioids in his or her system when Suboxone is being administered. That's where the eight hours come in. The amount of naloxone in Suboxone does not block buprenorphine strain of opioid from working comparatively. Suboxone is used only when a person is already way into the withdrawals. Some may wonder why treat opioid addiction with opioids but Suboxone while addictive is nowhere near as potent as let's say oxycodone and tapering is easier with less side effects. Benzodiazepine addiction is sometimes treated with a lesser benzo e.g. Xanax vs. Librium. These are not the only drugs used but rather during the acute detox period. I mention earlier that Prince probably would have been on antiemetics, a small dosage of a benzo, and maybe Clonidine or beta blockers depending on his symptoms. Everyone is a bit different. Once the detox is done, the person is often put on naltrexone which blocks the "feel good" aspect of opioids therefore diminishing it's desired effects. Prince would have probably had been put on that and given an alternative pain management treatment that wouldn't involve opiates. [Edited 11/29/17 12:43pm]

Thanks for the insight on this.

paulludvig said:

Susu1976 said:

purplefam99 said: Your body goes into an immediate detox, yes and is extremely uncomfortable for the person as it rids the body of all trades of the opiates. Technically there is no need to wean after that but the withdrawal especially after longer-term heavy use can be so bad that the person needs help dealing with the withdrawal symptoms otherwise the risk of relapse is extremely high. Also, the person is used to taking large doses of opiates and tend to not realize the risk of an overdose if they do relapse. They often take the same amount they used to take prior to the Narcan and their body cannot handle that dose. Another important thing to remember is that dependency/addiction is rarely just a physiological issue especially after long term use regardless of why the person is taking me drug or started taking it in the first place, so the person craves the opiate on a psychological level even after the physiological cravings subside. That's why detox should always be followed by rehab even if it's out-patient. Obviously I wasn't there to witness Prince's level of dependency/addiction but just by judging by the sheer number of pills found and the classic behavior of someone who is using heavily ( being able to function indicates high tolerance, the hiding of pills is text book addict behavior) I would assume that he became very ill physically and mentally in the days following the Moline incident and he couldn't cope with the withdrawal symptoms and took that fatal dose to alleviate them. If he had just battled it out for a few more hrs ( severe withdrawal can be sheer hell so it certainly easier said than done), the outcome might have been very different.

But he was out and about a lot in the days after the Moline incident. He didn't look sick at all. How is that possible?

[Edited 11/29/17 13:55pm]

It is quite possible to be dosing and weaning simultaneously. Go by an H clinic and watch the revolving door.

Susu1976 said:

ETA: There was also ondansentron (antiemetic) in Kirk's name so Prince was clearly not well but had enough drugs to function at some level.

Susu1976 said:

laurarichardson said:

Let me explain something to you because once again we have a drug expert who is making something more complicated them it is because well they are an expert and the rest of us were hatched yesterday.

1) Dr. K or is idiot son would not have any way of know what drugs Prince had taken in the last 8 hours of his life as they were not his doctors and had no access to him during that time frame.

If Andrew had administered anything to him he might have killed him since he had no idea what Prince had taken.

2) I am not suggesting that Andrew went to PP to overdose and kill Prince. I am saying that his ignorance and like of a medical degree would have caused him to kill Prince. I never said that was his intent. Intent is something you keep bring up not me. Now you need to sit down somewhere and try using your brain instead of making up stuff.

3) I have never given Kirk or Andrew any slack and if someone goes to jail it will probaly be Kirk. Not Dr. S or Andrew. I do not give a rat's ass what tolerance you have because you are so busy defending Andrew and Dr. K who probaly just wanted to get a wealthy person in their quack client that they were willing to break the law. If you used your head you would see what this was really all about and try doing a little research on the complaints against Dr. K. after all you are an drug expert who does not seem to understand federal laws or anything about drug interactions.

Ermm, what part of Federal law do I not understand according to you?!? ANDREW KORNFELD NEWER GAVE PRINCE ANYTHING so stop the shoulda woulda coulda. Yes, I am an expert in pharmacology and damn proud of it, thank you. What stuff did I make up? Please, list them or like I already said STFU. When I brought up intent it was as in Andrew Kornfeld's obvious intent was to get Prince into path of detox. Understanding context doesn't seem to be your strength, neither is reading comprehension, rational and critical thinking, logic....ugh I give up. The list is too long. Speaking of resident expert, haven't you crowned yourself all things ever discussed in this forum as nobody is ever correct except you? Anyway, like I said I am not going at this back and forth with an idiot like you. There are so many intelligent posters in t!his forum to converse with. You are not one of them and not worth my time.

Susu1976: I'm sure I'm just one of many here who are grateful for your generosity in sharing your professional expertise. Big Thanks...I know it's a heavy-lift trying to get through to some.

morningsong said:

laurarichardson said:

Let me explain something to you because once again we have a drug expert who is making something more complicated them it is because well they are an expert and the rest of us were hatched yesterday.

1) Dr. K or is idiot son would not have any way of know what drugs Prince had taken in the last 8 hours of his life as they were not his doctors and had no access to him during that time frame.

If Andrew had administered anything to him he might have killed him since he had no idea what Prince had taken.

2) I am not suggesting that Andrew went to PP to overdose and kill Prince. I am saying that his ignorance and like of a medical degree would have caused him to kill Prince. I never said that was his intent. Intent is something you keep bring up not me. Now you need to sit down somewhere and try using your brain instead of making up stuff.

3) I have never given Kirk or Andrew any slack and if someone goes to jail it will probaly be Kirk. Not Dr. S or Andrew. I do not give a rat's ass what tolerance you have because you are so busy defending Andrew and Dr. K who probaly just wanted to get a wealthy person in their quack client that they were willing to break the law. If you used your head you would see what this was really all about and try doing a little research on the complaints against Dr. K. after all you are an drug expert who does not seem to understand federal laws or anything about drug interactions.

I get how you feel.

Personally, I don't think it was so much a money grab as opposed to a dire last resort especially if Dad was working with another client in pratically the same boat. What professional drops one client to runoff to another potential client? Somebody needed to be in MN immediately, which left only the son available.

iirc, the scenerio was supposed to be convincing Prince, then take him to another clinic with another Dr. who never was nor will never be mentioned because of so much limelight, and then administer those meds in the backpack in case they were unavailable in the MN area. Why would Dr. S need to make a housecall with test the very next day if there wasn't a plan to take place?

Yup...and 'someone' decided to reassert CONTROL and do things his way, as always.

Susu1976 said:

purplefam99 said:

Ahhh ok now I see, thx. And another question, the narcan he was given after the plane does that drug send you into immediate detox. Meaning in the days right after moline, do you think, prince using that detox from narcan, tired to start weaning then, or is there no need to wean because his system was clear? My direct question is after moline did his body no longer crave the pills? Thx.

Your body goes into an immediate detox, yes and is extremely uncomfortable for the person as it rids the body of all trades of the opiates. Technically there is no need to wean after that but the withdrawal especially after longer-term heavy use can be so bad that the person needs help dealing with the withdrawal symptoms otherwise the risk of relapse is extremely high. Also, the person is used to taking large doses of opiates and tend to not realize the risk of an overdose if they do relapse. They often take the same amount they used to take prior to the Narcan and their body cannot handle that dose. Another important thing to remember is that dependency/addiction is rarely just a physiological issue especially after long term use regardless of why the person is taking me drug or started taking it in the first place, so the person craves the opiate on a psychological level even after the physiological cravings subside. That's why detox should always be followed by rehab even if it's out-patient. Obviously I wasn't there to witness Prince's level of dependency/addiction but just by judging by the sheer number of pills found and the classic behavior of someone who is using heavily ( being able to function indicates high tolerance, the hiding of pills is text book addict behavior) I would assume that he became very ill physically and mentally in the days following the Moline incident and he couldn't cope with the withdrawal symptoms and took that fatal dose to alleviate them. If he had just battled it out for a few more hrs ( severe withdrawal can be sheer hell so it certainly easier said than done), the outcome might have been very different.

Thank you for this eloquent and heartbreaking summation.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

morningsong said:

I get how you feel.

Personally, I don't think it was so much a money grab as opposed to a dire last resort especially if Dad was working with another client in pratically the same boat. What professional drops one client to runoff to another potential client? Somebody needed to be in MN immediately, which left only the son available.

iirc, the scenerio was supposed to be convincing Prince, then take him to another clinic with another Dr. who never was nor will never be mentioned because of so much limelight, and then administer those meds in the backpack in case they were unavailable in the MN area. Why would Dr. S need to make a housecall with test the very next day if there wasn't a plan to take place?

Yup...and 'someone' decided to reassert CONTROL and do things his way, as always.

Whose way? I don't understand what you are saying here.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

:: Thanks! I appreciate it! I tried to keep my cool as long as possibly could but damn...

morningsong said:

Susu1976 said:

paulludvig said: I don't know. I can only go by what opiate withdrawal is like 99% of the time. He might have taken a benzo or two as he had Xanax ( or some other benzo, I don't remember now) at PP or even a small dose of an opiate gradually starting to amp up again as it doesn't take long for the body to get hooked again and that eased his symptoms a bit and for a moment. His overdose wasn't directly due to taking the dose he was used to taking but simply a result of the fact that he did not know that the pill(s) were laced with a gigantic amount of fentanyl. I have no idea what he did but all I know that A Kornfeld brought those meds to PP to treat withdrawals. So, either P was in withdrawals or there was hope he would agree to detox for good and the meds were there to get him started.

This is one rare time I actually see this stated. It still stands that if one pill had enough fentanyl to kill any adult, the debating about him taking more than his "usual" amount is moot. If that one fact is removed then any speculation under the sun sounds legit. One question the warrants do not answer is where the fentanyl came from, that is what killed him.


Fixed 'cause that isn't the only question unanswered.

[Edited 11/29/17 14:45pm]

This. How does one "accidentaly overdose" with a pill that is laced with so much fentanyl? Self-administered, yes. Accidental overdose, no because a person would have to have had prior knowledge that the pill contained a lethal dose. I can't buy "suicide" because of that fact. I can see "accidental poisoning" though.

Misslink88 said:

This. How does one "accidentaly overdose" with a pill that is laced with so much fentanyl? Self-administered, yes. Accidental overdose, no because a person would have to have had prior knowledge that the pill contained a lethal dose. I can't buy "suicide" because of that fact. I can see "accidental poisoning" though.

Welcome back Misslink.

I don't think he knew that it had that much fentanyl in it, I think he thought he was taking the usual stuff.

Misslink88 said:

WTF?!? Are you sure you should be posting here instead of being on a straight jacket at Bellevue or at McLean (if you're are in the States)? Newsflash! You accidentally overdose when you either don't know what you are putting into your body or how much. "Person would have to have had prior knowledge that the pill contained a lethal dose. I can't buy "suicide" because of that fact.".... Ummm-hmm..already then. I am not sure whether English is your first language or if you're just stupid. Or maybe you're drunk or something, I don't know. Please, go back and read your comment several times and hopefully you will find out that you just contradicted yourself in one short sentence and your whole post is one of the most ignorant I have ever come across. I hope for your sake you are a troll or 13 yrs old and live in the woods somewhere and just got access to a computer. Otherwise I cannot fathom such stupidity. I thought have seen it all and then shit like this comes along...unreal.