sonshine said:

purplefam99 said:

Ok that is what I thought too, withdrawing is stopping. To me.

Depending upon the weaning regimen the individual could still be experiencing symptoms of withdrawl. Prince was not on a medically supervised regimen of weaning so he very well could have been experiencing withdrawl symptoms. It's not unlikely for self-medicating individuals to constantly be in varying stages of withdrawl (or high) depending upon their ability to score their drug(s) of choice. Without reliable sources an addicts life is literally a rollercoaster. And there is really no such thing in an addict's world as a true reliable source.

That he was going thru withdrawals was mentioned in the search warrant by his associates not by Prince. Also if he was going thru withdrawals would that not explain what the chefs said about his stomach being upset and requesting smoothies and soups and not appearing to be high just being a little less chatty.

Does anyone not think it is weird that a person who suppose to abusing drugs never appears to be high to anyone. Not one single person seemed to notice not even a change in his demeanor. Just eating less and complaining of stomach and flu like issues all of which are a part of withdrawing.

sonshine said:

purplefam99 said:

Ok that is what I thought too, withdrawing is stopping. To me.

Depending upon the weaning regimen the individual could still be experiencing symptoms of withdrawl. Prince was not on a medically supervised regimen of weaning so he very well could have been experiencing withdrawl symptoms. It's not unlikely for self-medicating individuals to constantly be in varying stages of withdrawl (or high) depending upon their ability to score their drug(s) of choice. Without reliable sources an addicts life is literally a rollercoaster. And there is really no such thing in an addict's world as a true reliable source.

ok thx sonshine.

laurarichardson said:

sonshine said:

purplefam99 said: Depending upon the weaning regimen the individual could still be experiencing symptoms of withdrawl. Prince was not on a medically supervised regimen of weaning so he very well could have been experiencing withdrawl symptoms. It's not unlikely for self-medicating individuals to constantly be in varying stages of withdrawl (or high) depending upon their ability to score their drug(s) of choice. Without reliable sources an addicts life is literally a rollercoaster. And there is really no such thing in an addict's world as a true reliable source.

That he was going thru withdrawals was mentioned in the search warrant by his associates not by Prince. Also if he was going thru withdrawals would that not explain what the chefs said about his stomach being upset and requesting smoothies and soups and not appearing to be high just being a little less chatty.

Does anyone not think it is weird that a person who suppose to abusing drugs never appears to be high to anyone. Not one single person seemed to notice not even a change in his demeanor. Just eating less and complaining of stomach and flu like issues all of which are a part of withdrawing.

so you think the withdrawing line is bogus? i kinda think kJ just said that. i can't imagine someone

wanting to try to perform under those conditions. but if he was and trying to wean on illicits, that

must have been crazy.

The desire to be “Prince” was never far from PRN’s consciousness from a very early age; a yearning to be something larger/different than himself.

Throughout the tribulations of his career and personal life, he chose not to drill down and reconnect with PRN because being “Prince” was so glam, so much fun, so financially rewarding. He was such a big star.

But being a performing artist on the level of “Prince” usually entails piecing out your soul to become other characters for your audience; being such an artist does not facilitate having a real life with authentic long-term, intimate relationships that nurture and heal....especially for someone who was always 'on stage'.

So to those who insist “Prince” never looked high I ask: Do you know what he looked like before he was “Prince?”

Bodhitheblackdog said:

The desire to be “Prince” was never far from PRN’s consciousness from a very early age; a yearning to be something larger/different than himself.

Throughout the tribulations of his career and personal life, he chose not to drill down and reconnect with PRN because being “Prince” was so glam, so much fun, so financially rewarding. He was such a big star.

But being a performing artist on the level of “Prince” usually entails piecing out your soul to become other characters for your audience; being such an artist does not facilitate having a real life with authentic long-term, intimate relationships that nurture and heal....especially for someone who was always 'on stage'.

So to those who insist “Prince” never looked high I ask: Do you know what he looked like before he was “Prince?”

You have a wonderful imagination.

Actually lately there are a lot of pics of him as a child and teen floating around so we do know what he looked like before he was famous as he was always Prince.

"

usually entails piecing out your soul to become other characters for your audience; being such an artist does not facilitate having a real life with authentic long-term, intimate relationships that nurture and heal....especially for someone who was always 'on stage'."

This is funny as hell. Analyzing someone you do not know from Adam via the internet. LOL

purplefam99 said:

laurarichardson said:

That he was going thru withdrawals was mentioned in the search warrant by his associates not by Prince. Also if he was going thru withdrawals would that not explain what the chefs said about his stomach being upset and requesting smoothies and soups and not appearing to be high just being a little less chatty.

Does anyone not think it is weird that a person who suppose to abusing drugs never appears to be high to anyone. Not one single person seemed to notice not even a change in his demeanor. Just eating less and complaining of stomach and flu like issues all of which are a part of withdrawing.

so you think the withdrawing line is bogus? i kinda think kJ just said that. i can't imagine someone

wanting to try to perform under those conditions. but if he was and trying to wean on illicits, that

must have been crazy.

I do not think it was bogus. Remember a Subxone pill was found by the police and the meds he was prescribed by Dr. S can be used for withdrawal. I still say he had consulted with Dr. S or some other doctor under some assumed name before trying to withdraw.

I do not think KJ was lying and I still think he may have been in a hurry to withdraw due to organ damage or some other health issue.

He cannot be a raging pill head to some of you and not have had it have any effect on his health at all. It is not possible. I also think he had beat it enough to travel but something changed the week of 7th when he canceled the Atlanta show.

I cannot see Prince telling at least two people he was not a 100% and he had to check back with his doctor and putting concerts on hold if he was just suffering from withdrawals or addiction and had managed to travel as far as he did in the last months of his life.

It does not make any sense at all.

laurarichardson said:

I don't believe he was a raging pill head. People using opiates can be quite functional over a long period of time. It seems for whatever reasons Prince's opiate use took a dangerous turn and coping with those issues without the strict supervision of medical professionals is not wise. We will probably never learn all the how's and why's. But i understand and accept that it did happen. When you play with fire you get burned. He shouldn't have bern trying to work when these things obviously reached a crisis level. He should have taken care of himself first and foremost. The incident in Moline was his chance to do that. He should have immediately sought further help and stopped everything else he was doing at that point.

St. Louis was reported to be the next stop. In fact, according to someone in management at the Fox, the posters/window cards had been printed and the pre-show dining staff were desperately trying to work the shows...especially the young women LOL. I hope he realized just how big or a stir he could still create among the ladies.

Agree with Laura, something changed.

laurarichardson said:

purplefam99 said:

so you think the withdrawing line is bogus? i kinda think kJ just said that. i can't imagine someone

wanting to try to perform under those conditions. but if he was and trying to wean on illicits, that

must have been crazy.

I do not think it was bogus. Remember a Subxone pill was found by the police and the meds he was prescribed by Dr. S can be used for withdrawal. I still say he had consulted with Dr. S or some other doctor under some assumed name before trying to withdraw.

I do not think KJ was lying and I still think he may have been in a hurry to withdraw due to organ damage or some other health issue.

He cannot be a raging pill head to some of you and not have had it have any effect on his health at all. It is not possible. I also think he had beat it enough to travel but something changed the week of 7th when he canceled the Atlanta show.

I cannot see Prince telling at least two people he was not a 100% and he had to check back with his doctor and putting concerts on hold if he was just suffering from withdrawals or addiction and had managed to travel as far as he did in the last months of his life.

It does not make any sense at all.

laurarichardson said:

You have a wonderful imagination.

Actually lately there are a lot of pics of him as a child and teen floating around so we do know what he looked like before he was famous as he was always Prince.

"

usually entails piecing out your soul to become other characters for your audience; being such an artist does not facilitate having a real life with authentic long-term, intimate relationships that nurture and heal....especially for someone who was always 'on stage'."

This is funny as hell. Analyzing someone you do not know from Adam via the internet. LOL

It is pretty funny, considering you do it at least 10 x a day on this very forum. You don't know Prince from Adam either.

laurarichardson said:

Ok, thx, I’m still mulling it all.

PennyPurple said:

laurarichardson said:

You have a wonderful imagination.

Actually lately there are a lot of pics of him as a child and teen floating around so we do know what he looked like before he was famous as he was always Prince.

"

usually entails piecing out your soul to become other characters for your audience; being such an artist does not facilitate having a real life with authentic long-term, intimate relationships that nurture and heal....especially for someone who was always 'on stage'."

This is funny as hell. Analyzing someone you do not know from Adam via the internet. LOL

It is pretty funny, considering you do it at least 10 x a day on this very forum. You don't know Prince from Adam either.

I don't know him and I do not go around pretending to know what his thougts were either. I just take what we know as factual and use common sense and deduction. I never say I know for sure what was in his mine. I do not pshyco analyze people I do not know via the internet.

He left us a shit load of interviews and music so it is not like he did not express himself. I just do not ignore things that are obvious like some people do on this board.

The whole Tidal thing is a glaring example. How can someone have contracts be they oral or written with money exchanging hands, written interviews, , press releashes, tweets, and Princegram post telling everyone he wanted to do business with Tidal yet many on this board believe that someone from Tidal came in the night and stole files.

It is unethical for estate managers to go aganist what he wanted and was actually paid for and to me that is common sense.

--

We also have no idea what goes on in someone else's marriage and I would bet half the people commenting have never been married to even know what they are even speaking on.

We have one side of those marriages. Common sense should tell anyone we will never know the whole story of his marriages because we will never know his side. What we do know is he kept his private life private and if he wanted to make life difficult for those two he could have and he did not so much has mention there names.

They both should have the common courtesy to do the same.

laurarichardson said:

purplefam99 said:

so you think the withdrawing line is bogus? i kinda think kJ just said that. i can't imagine someone

wanting to try to perform under those conditions. but if he was and trying to wean on illicits, that

must have been crazy.

I do not think it was bogus. Remember a Subxone pill was found by the police and the meds he was prescribed by Dr. S can be used for withdrawal. I still say he had consulted with Dr. S or some other doctor under some assumed name before trying to withdraw.

I do not think KJ was lying and I still think he may have been in a hurry to withdraw due to organ damage or some other health issue.

He cannot be a raging pill head to some of you and not have had it have any effect on his health at all. It is not possible. I also think he had beat it enough to travel but something changed the week of 7th when he canceled the Atlanta show.

I cannot see Prince telling at least two people he was not a 100% and he had to check back with his doctor and putting concerts on hold if he was just suffering from withdrawals or addiction and had managed to travel as far as he did in the last months of his life.

It does not make any sense at all.

I too thinks something changed the week of the 7th. Actually it could have been the week prior as well because from what I could see his last shows were in Canada towards the end of March 2016. It looks like he had some time off from March 27, 2016 - April 7th. We also know he visited with Dr. S on April 6 2016.

laurarichardson said:

PennyPurple said:

It is pretty funny, considering you do it at least 10 x a day on this very forum. You don't know Prince from Adam either.

I don't know him and I do not go around pretending to know what his thougts were either. I just take what we know as factual and use common sense and deduction. I never say I know for sure what was in his mine. I do not pshyco analyze people I do not know via the internet.

He left us a shit load of interviews and music so it is not like he did not express himself. I just do not ignore things that are obvious like some people do on this board.

The whole Tidal thing is a glaring example. How can someone have contracts be they oral or written with money exchanging hands, written interviews, , press releashes, tweets, and Princegram post telling everyone he wanted to do business with Tidal yet many on this board believe that someone from Tidal came in the night and stole files.

It is unethical for estate managers to go aganist what he wanted and was actually paid for and to me that is common sense.

--

We also have no idea what goes on in someone else's marriage and I would bet half the people commenting have never been married to even know what they are even speaking on.

We have one side of those marriages. Common sense should tell anyone we will never know the whole story of his marriages because we will never know his side. What we do know is he kept his private life private and if he wanted to make life difficult for those two he could have and he did not so much has mention there names.

They both should have the common courtesy to do the same.

PennyPurple said:

Well comeback when you can add something🙏🏿

sonshine said:

Yes, this has been mentioned many times. There are numerous "famous" people that have struggled with addiction and none were the wiser. Until, of course, an event triggers them to reevaluate their dependency on the drug. Chaka Khan, for example, struggled for years with her Fentanyl abuse. Are there any stories about any tangible clues? Not that I've read. Matthew Perry, Nicole Ritchie, Eric Clapton, Jamie Lee Curtis, Steven Tyler, Winona Ryder, Rush Limbaugh, Cindy McCain and Carrie Fisher are some others. All these people are (or were - RIP CF) still working in their respective careers and that is proof that the public is forgiving and understand these people are prone to human frailties. Recovery is possible. It's a shame Prince did not allow himself the opportunity of recovery. The public would not have exiled him. Also, the raging pill head is not a narrative I have heard regarding Prince's opioid use. In the press or elsewhere.

As an aside....Jamie Lee Curtis, poignantly, had this to say about her addiction/recovery - “I too found painkillers after a routine cosmetic surgical procedure and I too became addicted, the morphine becomes the warm bath from which to escape painful reality. I was a lucky one. I was able to see that the pain had started long ago and far away and that the finding the narcotic was merely a matter of time. The pain needed numbing. My recovery from drug addiction is the single greatest accomplishment of my life… but it takes work — hard, painful work.”

NotACleverName said:

sonshine said:

I don't believe he was a raging pill head. People using opiates can be quite functional over a long period of time. It seems for whatever reasons Prince's opiate use took a dangerous turn and coping with those issues without the strict supervision of medical professionals is not wise. We will probably never learn all the how's and why's. But i understand and accept that it did happen. When you play with fire you get burned. He shouldn't have bern trying to work when these things obviously reached a crisis level. He should have taken care of himself first and foremost. The incident in Moline was his chance to do that. He should have immediately sought further help and stopped everything else he was doing at that point.

Yes, this has been mentioned many times. There are numerous "famous" people that have struggled with addiction and none were the wiser. Until, of course, an event triggers them to reevaluate their dependency on the drug. Chaka Khan, for example, struggled for years with her Fentanyl abuse. Are there any stories about any tangible clues? Not that I've read. Matthew Perry, Nicole Ritchie, Eric Clapton, Jamie Lee Curtis, Steven Tyler, Winona Ryder, Rush Limbaugh, Cindy McCain and Carrie Fisher are some others. All these people are (or were - RIP CF) still working in their respective careers and that is proof that the public is forgiving and understand these people are prone to human frailties. Recovery is possible. It's a shame Prince did not allow himself the opportunity of recovery. The public would not have exiled him. Also, the raging pill head is not a narrative I have heard regarding Prince's opioid use. In the press or elsewhere. As an aside....Jamie Lee Curtis, poignantly, had this to say about her addiction/recovery - “I too found painkillers after a routine cosmetic surgical procedure and I too became addicted, the morphine becomes the warm bath from which to escape painful reality. I was a lucky one. I was able to see that the pain had started long ago and far away and that the finding the narcotic was merely a matter of time. The pain needed numbing. My recovery from drug addiction is the single greatest accomplishment of my life… but it takes work — hard, painful work.”

You do not know what avenues he took to recovery or if it was even neccesary something you keep ingnoring.

Menes said:

The officsl report that it was an accidental overdose combined with, iirc,
the surety the fentanyl was self administered and the toxicity of fentanyl has caused me to wonder whether the route if administration was something other than pills such as a suppository.
Statements such as those made by the chef(s) seem to support at least the possibility.

purplefam99 said:

Withdrawal generally refers to the physical problems and emotions an individual experiences if dependent on a substance (salcohol, drugs) and suddenly stops *or* drastically reduces intake of said substance.

Withdrawal symptoms occur due to lesser amounts of the substance in the blood/tissues of an individual who has physically, emotionally, and mentally grown accustomed to using the substance.

It's also important to note that the individual does NOT need to be 'addicted' to the substance for withdrawal to occur. It is dependency - emotional, mental, physical - that creates withdrawal, not addiction.

Though dependency and addiction can coincide, studies done in re addiction and opiate usage in people taking opiates for chronic pain show a VERY low percentage become addicted. Dependent, yes. The numbers generally surprise people because the media has cultivated much misinformation about chronic pain, opiate usage, and dependency.

The highsest numbers I've seen were that only approx 8% of people who have chronic pain and take opiates become addicted.

Dependency generally occurs much quicker, and again an individual can be dependent on ANY meds they take on a regular basis. The body and brain get used to it and when it's decreased or stopped completely, both react.

purplefam99 said:

I found Judith's description of him after the incident to be interesting as usually a person in withdrawal isn't going to be quite so calm as she described, but who knows if he was given anything in the hospital after the Narcan. I have worked in the field of addiction intermittently for over a decade and have yet to see or hear of anyone in withdrawal being so coherent and calm.
The hsbituaton would still be present, and chances are much more. Of course this assumes he was dependent on opiates. That is my opinion, but I have little to no proof.
Withdrawing from opiates causes physical pain, irregardless of whether this pain was present before withdrawing.
Most hospitals will send an individual home with some meds such as clonidine (which I believe was found at PP & is in the warrant info). They generally only prescribe enough withdrawal meds for 3-7 days.

PennyPurple said:

Yes! This is why I lean towards agreeing with self administration but not in pill form.
If those levels that were reported are even 25% of what the levels truly were,no one could touch it, let alone swallow it. Once it hit the mouth it'd be over.
I'm beginning to lean more towards agreeing with the official report - accidental OD, self administered.

morningsong said:

Withdrawal due to opiate abuse = dependent on opiates = taking on a regular basis over a period of time.

1-2 pills? 1-2 Percocet would be unlikely to make anyone nod out the way Judith described. More likely if mixed with something else. But for someone who is dependent and abusing opiates, 1-2 Percocets won't do that. It's possible, but extremely unlikely.

Also interesting is the statement that seems to infer they discovered fentanyl in the bedroom along with other opiates/controlled substances the morning he died.
Maybe it's just the way it's worded...

laurarichardson said:

Not to me. I've known many, many people who are functional. It's much more common than people think.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

I have often wondered, since he died, just how difficult it would be to age for him.
I realize there are people who don't subscribe to the idea that trauma in childhood and sdulthood does not impact people as deeply as studies show, but I think it's impossible for such experiences to not affect an individual no matter how much fame, money, women, and talent one possesses.
Furthermore, if a man relied upon his physicality as a extension of himself, whether via reputation as a ladies man or performing, aging would not be easy.

Morgaine said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

The desire to be “Prince” was never far from PRN’s consciousness from a very early age; a yearning to be something larger/different than himself.

Throughout the tribulations of his career and personal life, he chose not to drill down and reconnect with PRN because being “Prince” was so glam, so much fun, so financially rewarding. He was such a big star.

But being a performing artist on the level of “Prince” usually entails piecing out your soul to become other characters for your audience; being such an artist does not facilitate having a real life with authentic long-term, intimate relationships that nurture and heal....especially for someone who was always 'on stage'.

So to those who insist “Prince” never looked high I ask: Do you know what he looked like before he was “Prince?”

I have often wondered, since he died, just how difficult it would be to age for him. I realize there are people who don't subscribe to the idea that trauma in childhood and sdulthood does not impact people as deeply as studies show, but I think it's impossible for such experiences to not affect an individual no matter how much fame, money, women, and talent one possesses. Furthermore, if a man relied upon his physicality as a extension of himself, whether via reputation as a ladies man or performing, aging would not be easy.

Morgaine, you make some very valid points. The entertainment industry is not always kind to its most senior members.

Morgaine said:

laurarichardson said:

That he was going thru withdrawals was mentioned in the search warrant by his associates not by Prince. Also if he was going thru withdrawals would that not explain what the chefs said about his stomach being upset and requesting smoothies and soups and not appearing to be high just being a little less chatty.

Does anyone not think it is weird that a person who suppose to abusing drugs never appears to be high to anyone. Not one single person seemed to notice not even a change in his demeanor. Just eating less and complaining of stomach and flu like issues all of which are a part of withdrawing.

Not to me. I've known many, many people who are functional. It's much more common than people think.

It's no use. She won't listen to you.

fortuneandserendipity said:

Morgaine said:

laurarichardson said: Not to me. I've known many, many people who are functional. It's much more common than people think.

It's no use. She won't listen to you.

SNIP - slanderous post - OF4$

Bodhitheblackdog said:

SNIP -slanderous post - OF4$

Please explain to us why you found it necessary to use those specific words to get your point across? I'm sure I am not the only one waiting to hear this.

Actually, the idea that just touching fentanyl pills -- even powerful ones -- can harm you has been largely discredited by experts in recent reports. Here's one of many articles about this: http://www.philly.com/phi...70630.html

Morgaine said:

PennyPurple said:

With that much fentanyl in the pills, just touching them could be dangerous, right? So they had to be touched several times by somebody, because they were put in other bottles. In fact just touching them could be deadly.

Yes! This is why I lean towards agreeing with self administration but not in pill form. If those levels that were reported are even 25% of what the levels truly were,no one could touch it, let alone swallow it. Once it hit the mouth it'd be over. I'm beginning to lean more towards agreeing with the official report - accidental OD, self administered.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

It's no use. She won't listen to you.

SNIP - OF4$

I noticed that too

disch said:

Actually, the idea that just touching fentanyl pills -- even powerful ones -- can harm you has been largely discredited by experts in recent reports. Here's one of many articles about this: http://www.philly.com/phi...70630.html

Morgaine said:

PennyPurple said: Yes! This is why I lean towards agreeing with self administration but not in pill form. If those levels that were reported are even 25% of what the levels truly were,no one could touch it, let alone swallow it. Once it hit the mouth it'd be over. I'm beginning to lean more towards agreeing with the official report - accidental OD, self administered.

Thanks for posting the link disch. My husband is in EMS and had also said this.