READ FIRST: This post is not meant to disrespect Prince or to piss anybody off. It is just meant to start a discussion about this subject. Besides, with no Prince releases coming out in the near future, we need something to talk about to pass the time, right?

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Did Prince really care about his legacy? What would a musician's legacy encompass? It would be the culmination of a musician's entire artistic creations and accomplishments during their lifetime, right? How did Prince view his legacy? In an interview from 2014 not long after he signed the new deal with Warners, he was asked about the 30th anniversary Purple Rain remaster that was part of the deal. Prince said: "I don't know why people need to do that. To look back on the 30th year of something. I'm not interested in looking back." Prince's words seem to indicate that he had no interest even in the most pivotal moment of his legacy: Purple Rain. The only problem with that is, when it comes to one's legacy, one is required to look back. What is the legal definition of legacy? It's an amount of money or property left to someone in a will. The absence of a will seems to also indicate a lack of interest on Prince's part in securing legal protections for his legacy as well.

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While he was alive, Prince, despite being one of the most prolific artists of all time, would hoard his creations in his vault like a dragon hoards it's gold. When Mobeen Azhar was making his BBC radio documentary, Hunting for Prince's Vault, Prince had his PR company tell him that "We'd like for you not to do this documentary." Within 24 hours of Prince finding out that Matt Fink had agreed to be interviewed about the vault for the documentary, he had his lawyers contact him. Matt emailed Mobeen and said, "Hey, Prince's lawyers have been in touch. I can't do the interview. Take care. Bye." Thankfully, Matt Fink later told Mobeen, "Look, I think this is silly and the lawyer has contacted me again and said, "We can't actually stop you. So do what you want to do. But just be careful."

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(NOTE: But just be careful? WTF!)

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Now, one could argue that since he was so secretive and hell-bent on depriving his fans of ever seeing or hearing the contents of his vault that he was protecting his legacy for the future, but is this true? We've all heard the stories about the vault's AC failing or how several tapes were stacked on the basement floor of the room that leads into the vault, and how that room became flooded which led to several of those tapes suffering water damage. Scott LeGere recalled stepping into the "pre-vault" room and finding the floor covered with tape reels. Also, last year, the manager of the museum said they had to upgrade the HVAC system so that the master tapes would have air conditioning. It also seems that while Prince was still alive, the tapes hadn't been adequately logged and cataloged, nor did employees remember seeing much in the way of any detailed lists. Ian Boxill said: "Half the time I couldn't find a song because it was so hard to find. I'd spend a half hour just going through tapes. Prince didn't seem to have a reaction to it. I'd be like, 'Wow, look at all this stuff,' especially when I saw a lot of Batman tapes. For him, it was like going through old filing cabinets." All of these things seem to show a lack of care by Prince about his legacy. What have other people said who had access to the vault?

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Q&A With Paisley Park Engineer, David Friedlander

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Q: Prince's Vault and the status of its contents. Were tapes deteriorating and being neglected? Have measures been taken to digitally archive the tapes? Hans Martin Buff, who I believe may have come in after you has alluded to the fact that Prince seemed to not really express much interest in his Vault material.

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A: one of the first projects I did at Paisley was recording everything in the vault to tapes for the lawyers to copyright. a lot of material I guess wasn't copywritten. We had a team of 2 engineers and if I remember a security guard, so we policed ourselves against bootlegging. Every 2" was quickly mixed and dumped and every 1/2" was dumped. Of course, it took a long time. The reason I bring this up is I know firsthand how many of the earliest works were profusely shedding. a lot! When the studio started using scotch tape specifically 250 the profuse shedding stopped. If they didn't bake the tapes and transfer it I'm sure there's a lot of magnetic dust now. I was never involved with any archiving but I pray that someone has or that's a whole lot of history getting lost.

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He had stopped swearing completely and didn't like anyone using foul language around him. He even had masters of his songs destroyed that had cursing or too sexual of a topic. As far as the tapes destroyed, These were songs that were recorded prior to 2001 I believe, so they are songs prior to me working with him. I was told this by some of the guys that were working at Paisley at the time. I am not sure which masters were destroyed but I believe some were released songs like Sexy MF and other songs that were explicit and had cursing on them. - Ian Boxill

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(NOTE: If he really did destroy master tapes because of his religion, not only is it sad and pathetic but as a fan, it also pisses me off the most.)

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In an interview with Dave Hampton (former technical director of Paisley Park in Minneapolis) on The Prince Podcast website, starting at 31:35, he discusses the vault.

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LINK: http://podcastjuice.net/c...e-podcast/

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Dave basically says in the interview that a lot of stuff that Prince wanted to be pulled out of the vault to work on or to glean ideas from wouldn't play. He had a conversation several times with Prince regarding the condition of the tapes he pulled out and why they were shedding and why they're not working. He would also tell Prince the plan that they needed to implement in order to save the tapes in the vault from any further damage, which, according to Dave, Prince didn't want to do that.

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Also, what have fans said?

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When I had lunch with Manuela in February, she confirmed that there were occasions when Prince would ask for a reel to be brought up to the studio from the vault, and it would be damaged beyond repair. And that, of course, was over 10 years ago. - Militant (from prince.org)

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I remember at one of his Paisley jams a few years ago, he took a videotape out of the vault (it was from the symbol era) and showed it at the beginning of the party. You could tell the tape had not been preserved well. The colors were bleeding into one another and the film had a bunch of streaks running across it. I remember a lot of people talking about it pretty much hoping the rest of the tapes in the vault didn't look like that. - HeavenMustBNear (from prince.org)

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As a Prince fan, and a musician myself, the vault has always been a source of contention with me. According to past Paisley Park employees, thousands of hours of unheard live and studio material – jams, random songs and entire albums – still reside in that locked room, along with a similar amount of performance footage. When I thought about how Prince, who practically recorded more audio and video than anybody else in popular music, purposely deprived his fans of this stuff while other artists with far less talent and archived material were releasing things left and right, it really pissed me off. Then I thought about the fact that he wasn't cataloging it, protecting it from deterioration (e.g. shedding, mold, etc...), and even foolishly destroying some of it due to his religious beliefs, which pissed me off even more. Let's face it, aside from creating more music and video to add to the vault, Prince was probably one of the worse people to oversee it. He should have hired a professional curator. He also should have sold one of his many useless properties that he bought and used that money to fix the many problems that plagued Paisley Park and the vault. Also, including having the tapes inspected for damage, professionally baked, cataloged, and digitized for preservation. Even if Prince had officially released stuff from the vault while he was still alive, he would have altered it due to his then current JW beliefs. He would have changed some of the lyrics, and probably some of the music as well. He might have even recorded a completely new non-cursing version of an outtake altogether. Regardless, the integrity of the song would have most likely been lost. Fifty-seven-year-old Prince should have never messed with Twenty-four-year-old Prince because they were in some ways, two different people. Something recorded in 1982 represents Prince and the world around him perfectly at that period of time and should never be tampered with, even by Prince himself. I'm hoping that Prince's family doesn't censor or change things. I'm hoping that they release any two-track masters just remastered as is. If they tampered with or remixed an already original Prince mix, it would be sacrilege. If there are any multi-track recordings that have yet to be mixed down to two-track, then call in Susan Rodgers, and maybe Wendy & Lisa to mix it. Release everything as close to its original source as humanly and technically possible. PLEASE!

[Edited 10/11/17 20:10pm]

TheVaultKeeper said:

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(NOTE: If he really did destroy master tapes because of his religion, not only is it sad and pathetic but as a fan, it also pisses me off the most.)

I'm not a fan of the JW but if Prince destroyed HIS Masters because of HIS religion, then there's nothing wrong, people change all the time. There's nothing pathetic and it's his right to destroy the things. He converted to the JW and if he didn't want the masters with foul language released it's his right to destroy them. Because I wouldn't trust anyone with that, if he's dead, they release that too and he knew that. They wouldn't respect his religous beliefes by doing so.

[Edited 10/11/17 18:02pm]

TL;DR

Of course he cared about his legacy, everyone wants to leave a legacy. There are multiple ways for a person to leave a legacy, but given that he had no wife or surviving children when he died, his musical career and Paisley Park are the most significant parts of his legacy, in my opinion. He has friends, ex-wives, former significant others, and associated artists, and fans with whom he left a legacy as well. He also left a legacy through his philanthropy. Yes, he cared about his legacy.

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As for preservation of material in the Paisley Park Vault, it sounds like Prince could have taken better measures to preserve some of the material contained therein. I have a number of questions/wonderings about the PP Vault:

- Did Prince preserve PPV material that he considered the most important in digital format?

- Did Prince allow some of the PPV material to decay, in effect, passively destroying the material through inaction?

- Did Prince actively destroy some of the PPV material that he did not want to exist?

- Did Prince share what he wanted to happen to the material in the PPV, verbally, in writing, or otherwise?

- Did Prince allow the material in the PPV to fall into disrepair due to indifference (not caring whether the material survived) or due to avoidance (he didn't want to undertake the tedious task of updating or digitizing the material in the PPV?

I also wonder:

- Given the sexually explicit language and cursing in the version of "We Can F**k" that Warner Brothers released on Purple Rain Deluxe, Did Prince ever try to buy back the master of WCF from WB so that he could destroy the master of WCF?

206Michelle said:

Of course he cared about his legacy, everyone wants to leave a legacy. There are multiple ways for a person to leave a legacy, but given that he had no wife or surviving children when he died, his musical career and Paisley Park are the most significant parts of his legacy, in my opinion. He has friends, ex-wives, former significant others, and associated artists, and fans with whom he left a legacy as well. He also left a legacy through his philanthropy. Yes, he cared about his legacy.

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As for preservation of material in the Paisley Park Vault, it sounds like Prince could have taken better measures to preserve some of the material contained therein. I have a number of questions/wonderings about the PP Vault:

- Did Prince preserve PPV material that he considered the most important in digital format?

- Did Prince allow some of the PPV material to decay, in effect, passively destroying the material through inaction?

- Did Prince actively destroy some of the PPV material that he did not want to exist?

- Did Prince share what he wanted to happen to the material in the PPV, verbally, in writing, or otherwise?

- Did Prince allow the material in the PPV to fall into disrepair due to indifference (not caring whether the material survived) or due to avoidance (he didn't want to undertake the tedious task of updating or digitizing the material in the PPV?

These are all really good questions. Unfortunately, we'll probably never know the answers. However, there is a court document that may tell us what is left in the vault. The song titles listed in the "Inventory" court document dated Jan. 3, 2017, and filed by Bremer Trust, National Association, the Personal Representative of the Estate, says: The following is a true and correct inventory at the date of death values of all the property of the Estate. Under penalties of perjury, I declare or affirm that I have read the Inventory and I know or believe its representations are true and complete. This document was signed by Deborah Fasen, Assistant Vice President, as Special Administrator.

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Since the document states that it's a true and complete inventory of all the property of the Estate, these might be the only songs that are left in the vault. I hope not.

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Here's a link to the court document: http://www.mncourts.gov/m...entory.pdf

[Edited 10/11/17 21:06pm]

[Edited 10/11/17 21:08pm]

A couple of years ago they found some water damaged, and thought to be beyond repair master tapes at some hotel basement in London of amazing and holy Bob Marley concerts in London from 1974 - 1978. It took a year to repair these and they came out beautiful!

So if they can repair that kind of damage then I have little doubt in repairing Prince's tapes that have been preserved better and didn't suffer the damage those Marley tapes have.

TheVaultKeeper said:

206Michelle said:

Of course he cared about his legacy, everyone wants to leave a legacy. There are multiple ways for a person to leave a legacy, but given that he had no wife or surviving children when he died, his musical career and Paisley Park are the most significant parts of his legacy, in my opinion. He has friends, ex-wives, former significant others, and associated artists, and fans with whom he left a legacy as well. He also left a legacy through his philanthropy. Yes, he cared about his legacy.

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As for preservation of material in the Paisley Park Vault, it sounds like Prince could have taken better measures to preserve some of the material contained therein. I have a number of questions/wonderings about the PP Vault:

- Did Prince preserve PPV material that he considered the most important in digital format?

- Did Prince allow some of the PPV material to decay, in effect, passively destroying the material through inaction?

- Did Prince actively destroy some of the PPV material that he did not want to exist?

- Did Prince share what he wanted to happen to the material in the PPV, verbally, in writing, or otherwise?

- Did Prince allow the material in the PPV to fall into disrepair due to indifference (not caring whether the material survived) or due to avoidance (he didn't want to undertake the tedious task of updating or digitizing the material in the PPV?

These are all really good questions. Unfortunately, we'll probably never know the answers. However, there is a court document that may tell us what is left in the vault. The song titles listed in the "Inventory" court document dated Jan. 3, 2017, and filed by Bremer Trust, National Association, the Personal Representative of the Estate, says: The following is a true and correct inventory at the date of death values of all the property of the Estate. Under penalties of perjury, I declare or affirm that I have read the Inventory and I know or believe its representations are true and complete. This document was signed by Deborah Fasen, Assistant Vice President, as Special Administrator.

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Since the document states that it's a true and complete inventory of all the property of the Estate, these might be the only songs that are left in the vault. I hope not.

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Here's a link to the court document: http://www.mncourts.gov/m...entory.pdf

[Edited 10/11/17 21:06pm]

[Edited 10/11/17 21:08pm]

Thank you for this insight. I wonder if the list you are referencing are copyrighted titles only, not a total inventory of the Vault. I say that because there was a test pressing of the Camille LP that was auctioned, but I do not see it on the list. I do not see We Can Fuck nor do I see Roadhouse Garden.

It has become obviuos to me, PP was not the best storage environment for the tapes. It is nice to know that there are measures that can be done to repair the tapes to record them.

The Vault enhanced Prince's mystic. He did not look back apparantley. I am surprised that he was not concerned with the deteriation that was happening. All that time and work to waste away and for him to say his music was like children. No criticizing, just surprised and shocked.

Hopefully with the move, efforts, costly efforts, will be done to salvage and repair everything.

I do not think that Prince was concerned with his legacy. I think he was doing his own thing, music. He seemed to look forward. Saying that, he was looking back with PP being a musuem, but more in a forward way. Make sense?

Prince was a mass of contradictions. He died at 57 before he could work out some of his own conflicting feelings where his legacy was concerned. He might have been just starting on the process of sorting through his legacy but a health crisis diverted his attention..

TheVaultKeeper said:

Did Prince really care about his legacy?

Absolutely!

Had no idea about this vault stuff. But what I know is I won't be buying any Prince items compiled after his death that the vultures have put together.

Way too many parasites profiting off his legacy. Without his permission.

TheVaultKeeper said:

206Michelle said:

Of course he cared about his legacy, everyone wants to leave a legacy. There are multiple ways for a person to leave a legacy, but given that he had no wife or surviving children when he died, his musical career and Paisley Park are the most significant parts of his legacy, in my opinion. He has friends, ex-wives, former significant others, and associated artists, and fans with whom he left a legacy as well. He also left a legacy through his philanthropy. Yes, he cared about his legacy.

.

As for preservation of material in the Paisley Park Vault, it sounds like Prince could have taken better measures to preserve some of the material contained therein. I have a number of questions/wonderings about the PP Vault:

- Did Prince preserve PPV material that he considered the most important in digital format?

- Did Prince allow some of the PPV material to decay, in effect, passively destroying the material through inaction?

- Did Prince actively destroy some of the PPV material that he did not want to exist?

- Did Prince share what he wanted to happen to the material in the PPV, verbally, in writing, or otherwise?

- Did Prince allow the material in the PPV to fall into disrepair due to indifference (not caring whether the material survived) or due to avoidance (he didn't want to undertake the tedious task of updating or digitizing the material in the PPV?

These are all really good questions. Unfortunately, we'll probably never know the answers. However, there is a court document that may tell us what is left in the vault. The song titles listed in the "Inventory" court document dated Jan. 3, 2017, and filed by Bremer Trust, National Association, the Personal Representative of the Estate, says: The following is a true and correct inventory at the date of death values of all the property of the Estate. Under penalties of perjury, I declare or affirm that I have read the Inventory and I know or believe its representations are true and complete. This document was signed by Deborah Fasen, Assistant Vice President, as Special Administrator.

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Since the document states that it's a true and complete inventory of all the property of the Estate, these might be the only songs that are left in the vault. I hope not.

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Here's a link to the court document: http://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/media/CIOMediaLibrary/Documents/Inventory.pdf

[Edited 10/11/17 21:06pm]

[Edited 10/11/17 21:08pm]

Thank you so much for that link, TVK! I thought I saw all of the documents from January 2017, but apparently I didn't!

I don't think cared one bit about who or what would be left behind after he died,ex: NO WILL.

He cared more about the afterlife than what will happen here. He's constantly let us know that.

The greed of man will be
Far away from me
And my soul will be free
They won't go when I go

well he said he wanted to be known as the most prolific songwriter ever....and he accomplished that but no one knows it yet

Wlcm2thdwn3 said:

I don't think cared one bit about who or what would be left behind after he died,ex: NO WILL.

Agreed. People don't want to accept that it really is that simple though.

paisleypark4 said:

He cared more about the afterlife than what will happen here. He's constantly let us know that.

That may really well sum it up.

He certainly seemed to genuinely look forward to the "afterlife" (whenever it came, not in a suicidal way). So, possibly, whatever happens with his "stuff" once he's gone, he couldn't care less.

pdiddy2011 said:

paisleypark4 said:

He cared more about the afterlife than what will happen here. He's constantly let us know that.

That may really well sum it up.

He certainly seemed to genuinely look forward to the "afterlife" (whenever it came, not in a suicidal way). So, possibly, whatever happens with his "stuff" once he's gone, he couldn't care less.

Hmm, not so sure about that. Because he was writing his autobiography and he wanted PP to be a musem. He preserved several of his clothes intact.

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IMO, Prince thought he would live more 20 years and was more concerned about putting out new stuff.

ThatWhiteDude said:

TheVaultKeeper said:

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(NOTE: If he really did destroy master tapes because of his religion, not only is it sad and pathetic but as a fan, it also pisses me off the most.)

I'm not a fan of the JW but if Prince destroyed HIS Masters because of HIS religion, then there's nothing wrong, people change all the time. There's nothing pathetic and it's his right to destroy the things. He converted to the JW and if he didn't want the masters with foul language released it's his right to destroy them. Because I wouldn't trust anyone with that, if he's dead, they release that too and he knew that. They wouldn't respect his religous beliefes by doing so.

[Edited 10/11/17 18:02pm]

I'm not a fan of religion because imo it's all nonsense. And I'm not a fan of the idea Prince destroyed some masters bc his 'religion' frowned on cussing.

Of course Prince changed. But if P chucked all the swearing records out, that's just dumb, as far as I'm concerned. Supposedly, the bible challenges people not to use 'lord's name in vain'. But other bad words are equally impermissible? Really? I wouldn't know. But, the words 'fuck' and 'cunt' for instance didn't exist 2000 years ago. Language was more literal and limited.

Whether it was 10 songs binned or 1000, I'd like to think P worked on including the musical ideas in some other form with different lyrics.

A better question might be "did Prince Understand his legacy?" Or maybe "appreciate"

Mumio said:

Wlcm2thdwn3 said:

I don't think cared one bit about who or what would be left behind after he died,ex: NO WILL.

Agreed. People don't want to accept that it really is that simple though.

nope...he didn't care...if he did, he would of taken the appropriate steps to protect and preserve it...and he did not, so... I believe wherever he is, he is singing his own song... "Had U"...with special meaning...

[Edited 10/15/17 12:27pm]

macaylasdad said:

nope...he didn't care...if he did, he would of taken the appropriate steps to protect and preserve it...and he did not, so... I believe wherever he is, he is singing his own song... "Had U"...with special meaning...

[Edited 10/15/17 12:27pm]

I agree totally: the costumes, mystique, Vault, non-stop women, talk of charitable giving, professions of religiousity were all in service of promoting his career...smoke and mirrors.

Yes, he was a musical genius, driven by his demons to create, but at the end of the day he was a lonely and conflicted man.

What did the touring, glamour, makeup/heels, gaudy clothing,lack of sleep and proper nutrition, wierd marriages, willingness to do friends and lover cold have to do with living a good life? He had money and success...and the love of fans...strangers...did he have anything 'real'?

He would have been better off married to a sister in Minnie, having lots of kids (adoption is a good thing!) and teaching high school band. And I think he was smart enough to know it.

Would any of us wish his life for one of our children?

And, notice I never mentioned drugs...his great and ultimate escape from all the kinds of pain his 'fabulous' career brought him. RIP

GustavoRibas said:

pdiddy2011 said:

That may really well sum it up.

He certainly seemed to genuinely look forward to the "afterlife" (whenever it came, not in a suicidal way). So, possibly, whatever happens with his "stuff" once he's gone, he couldn't care less.

Hmm, not so sure about that. Because he was writing his autobiography and he wanted PP to be a musem. He preserved several of his clothes intact.

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IMO, Prince thought he would live more 20 years and was more concerned about putting out new stuff.

Yes, he in recent years was starting to understand his mortality. The creepiness of Art Official Age interludes say it within the museum, the piano show and biography he was starting.


He knew something.

THere is some validity to what you say, but I take exception to a few things. Happiness has no recipe. The man with the wife and kids isn't necessarily happy or (more importantly) content... And Prince's life consisted of many many moments that were probably enjoyable. He had happiness at various times in his life (as well as sadness, emptiness etc) ; I am just not sure he had contentment (that wasn't based on music) ...and that is ultimately what is important.

Contentment means (of course): a state of happiness and satisfaction. Happiness in increments is not as important as being in an overall "STATE" of satisfaction.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

macaylasdad said:

nope...he didn't care...if he did, he would of taken the appropriate steps to protect and preserve it...and he did not, so... I believe wherever he is, he is singing his own song... "Had U"...with special meaning...

[Edited 10/15/17 12:27pm]

I agree totally: the costumes, mystique, Vault, non-stop women, talk of charitable giving, professions of religiousity were all in service of promoting his career...smoke and mirrors.

Yes, he was a musical genius, driven by his demons to create, but at the end of the day he was a lonely and conflicted man.

What did the touring, glamour, makeup/heels, gaudy clothing,lack of sleep and proper nutrition, wierd marriages, willingness to do friends and lover cold have to do with living a good life? He had money and success...and the love of fans...strangers...did he have anything 'real'?

He would have been better off married to a sister in Minnie, having lots of kids (adoption is a good thing!) and teaching high school band. And I think he was smart enough to know it.

Would any of us wish his life for one of our children?

And, notice I never mentioned drugs...his great and ultimate escape from all the kinds of pain his 'fabulous' career brought him. RIP

[Edited 10/16/17 11:38am]